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  1. #1
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    "2 weeks..." the endless bike saga (long): WWMD

    As many of you know I had my bike ripped off about 6-7 weeks ago. A trip to Mexico put off a new bike for 2 weeks and then a week or so of research ensued.

    Two weeks ago Friday, I called 123bikes.com which is here in Tahoe. I ordered a custom Turner 5-spot and the guy told me he should knock it out the following Tuesday. Sweeet! So I went in Monday morning to double check my color choice and review the parts list. I made a couple of changes, one of which was the tires. No problem at the time. So I call Tuesday to see what's up and my pedals were on order, so it's not done. Call again towards the end of the week. No dice. The following Monday I decided to can the pedals I ordered and go with some Mallet Cs. No problem.

    Me: "I'm taking off to LA, any chance you can get the bike done by Thursday."

    Them: "Maybe, but we doubt it. We still have to get the tires. When will you be back?"

    Me: "Monday or Tuesday."

    Them: "We'll have it ready before you get back."

    Me: "Perfect. Thanks."

    Unfortunately, I got stuck in LA til yesterday. I called on Wednesday to ask about my bike since I hadn't heard anything yet.

    Them: "It's done, but we're still waiting for the tires."

    Me: "Uh...ok...hopefully we'll be all set when I return."

    So I rolled into town last night and called this morning. No answer. I drove by at 9:45 and the shop was closed even though they're supposed to open at 9. Hmmmm...

    A return visit around 1 yielded an open door and one guy in the shop. The bike was on the stand and I asked about the tires. "Early next week." I've heard that before. I told him I had bought the tires at a local shop and I was sick of waiting. Can he put the bike together today. "Uhhhhh...no. The rims aren't done yet and I don't build those." Now I'm pissed. I don't blame this guy. He was cool. But the guy who took my order is also the rim builder and he's been a total flake so far.

    So now I've missed a sweet ride today, have to rent a bike if I want to ride tomorrow and I'm sitting here holding my dick.

    I hate being an asshole customer, but they've been making promises they haven't kept. I sorta feel like I've been getting the run around too. If you can't finish my bike at a certain time, then don't tell me you will. So Monday I wanna ask for some consideration for this shit. They're charging me a % fee ($100) to use my AMEX cause I want the miles. So I want to have them waive that fee. I also want to ride tomorrow, which means renting a bike for $50. I want them to cover that also. It's not fair that I'm making plans based on their statements only to have them miss deadlines without even calling me. Plus I want them to finish the bike Monday, no exceptions. If any of these conditions aren't met, I'm cancelling the order. I'd rather wait another week or two and spend more $ than get treated like this.

    Is this reasonable?

    Edit: It was two weeks ago, not three. I had to be fair and correct that. Still, I'm sick of broken deadlines and used car talk. And since the tires still aren't in how can I trust their new assurances.
    Last edited by Arty50; 06-26-2004 at 07:08 PM.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  2. #2
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    That really sucks, Arty.

    I don't want to burst your bubble, and I really hope that I'm wrong about this, but I wouldn't count on them waiving the fee, and I almost certain they won't cover the rental. Maybe some other people have experience with the shop and can give you a more positive swing. But, from my experience, if this is the service you're getting from the start (particularly with a purchase this large and costly), I wouldn't expect much of an improvement down the road. I'd say if they're not leaving lip marks on your ass the next time you go in, kindly tell them to fuck off and then go find a new shop.

    Again, my judgement is base on what I've read here. Hopefully this is just an isolated incident.
    Last edited by bagtagley; 06-26-2004 at 05:15 PM.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  3. #3
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    It's hard to support the lbs with those kind of results.

    There's only one shop here in town. I can get most all my parts faster and for half the price using the net.

    Good luck on getting your new ride sooner, rather than later.
    I want a 6" travel 20lb MTB. I found the 20lb MTB, but only good for riders under 87 pounds.

  4. #4
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    I don't think asking them to have the bike finished by a set deadline is out of line. Monday might be abit hard for them to do since there's no chance they'll get the parts in if they aren't in now. I also don't think that asking the to cover rentals and the extra fee is too much given that they're well over a week past their stated delivery date.

    Hell, once I got off my ass and started, it took me less than two weeks to order parts off the internet and build my bike myself (bike iteration #1).
    "if the city is visibly one of humankind's greatest achievements, its uncontrolled evolution also can lead to desecration of both nature and the human spirit."
    -- Melvin G. Marcus 1979

  5. #5
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    from my own personal experience with speedgoat.com last year and from some other people. i don't think this is uncommon. if all the parts aren't in they just kind of let it sit. speedgoat told me 2 weeks, but failed to mention that i was in line behind numerous other bikes and therefore they wouldn't even start for approximately 6 weeks. they were great up till the point that they got my cc number, then they rarely returned my calls or emails. honestly, i don't think you have much recourse at this point except to walk out and say 'never again will you see a dime of my money and i will physically block all my friends from ever stepping in your store' (which at your size, you can actually do. ) but wait till you have your bike in hand before you do this.

    i have found a 'new' lbs in south tahoe. sierra cycle works. they have been there for a long time, just never thought of going in, it looks like such a small little shitty store. but it turns out that the owner, gary bell, has the rep of being the best bike tech in south lake, he is one hell of a nice guy. when i ordered a new fork at my first visit, they gave me a killer deal (70 bucks cheaper than i found it on any internet site!!) they have techs that apparently make some killer wheel sets and they have called me with regards to my tune and order without me having to call them.

    turns out they are also the only santa cruz dealer in town and sell and build quite a few bikes, as they really don't have any stock production bikes.

    my .02cents.

    good luck dude.

  6. #6
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    I don't think you are out of line at all to ask them to do you some favors. Some store credit would be a good place to start. I would make sure you have your time line straight and go in and talk to the most senior person you can find and voice your complaint. Hopefully they will make better. As others said, its hard to support a LBS with results like these. Doesn't take that long to get pedals/tires into a shop.
    More fucked up than a cricket in a hubcap

  7. #7
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    Update.

    South Lake is a small town and people talk. I just wish I had heard this before I bought the bike from them. At this point I may cancel the order, just from what I've heard.

    When I walked into my normal shop, a few of the guys in there cringed when I mentioned I was buying my bike at 123. I know it's a competing shop, but these guys are totally honest and wouldn't bs me. Quote: "You'll be fixing it a lot." That wasn't encouraging.

    I was just in another store and ran my story by someone there. Their words were even less kind. They've had tons of people come into their shop with similar complaints and lots of old time 123 customers moved over after a shift a year or two ago.

    There's another really good tech in town who says the same too.

    These are all guys who don't bad mouth other shops, just 123. Now I'm really worried. It's tempting to just say fuck it since my bike's almost done. But the bad stories combined with my experience are really making me want to cancel the order. This may mean paying more and waiting longer (which really sucks), but I'll be buying peace of mind.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  8. #8
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    get the bike, don't cancel the order. seriously. if it makes you feel better bring it to the crescent v ltd. there is a tech there that used to work for 123 he is apparently a great tech and see if he will look it over for a 12 pack have the same done at the 'y'.

    i haven't lived in south lake for 3 years and haven't heard anything one or the other, but i have never asked either.

  9. #9
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    Check out this thread over at MTBR. The guy posting as DGC, might be the guy that LPH is talking about. I thought I read over at mtbr that others had problems with 123 as well, couldn't find it, but did find this thread, might have to read down the page a bit to where its relevant. Anyway good luck, hope you get your bike soon. I would put the pressure on them to complete the order then pay a few bucks to have someone with "the eye" look it over to see if its fuct or not. That way you'll be riding sooner rather than later.
    More fucked up than a cricket in a hubcap

  10. #10
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    DGC's the guy. From the sound of it, there's a lot more to the story than what was posted over there. I'm assuming some people are too classy to put it on the internet. I'm gonna leave it at that. The whole "authorized" dealer thing isn't true from what I can gather.

    We'll see what happens tomorrow. If I do end up finishing the order, I'm gonna have DGC go over the bike with a fine tooth comb. I don't care if it costs me extra.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  11. #11
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    ya, DGC, is Dave the guy i was talking about. my buddy has a turner (the xc extreme or whatever it was called before the 5 spot) and bought it at the sports ltd at the "Y", brought it to dave to be tuned at 123, now brings it to dave at crescent V. sounds like he is a good guy and very thorough(which is obvious from his post in the thread linked above).

    arty, just for your own piece of mind, talk to him, ask him what you can do for him, bring him a case, whatever, but i am sure he will be willing to look at it for you. he realizes he will be getting another client.

    also, jason at the Y rides a 5spot and is pretty knowledgeable bike tech as well.

    good luck, man.

  12. #12
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    Thanks everyone, especially you lph. I just got a really nice email response from the owner of 123.

    He was apologetic and wants me to come in and talk to him and straighten all this out. I was headed in there today anyway. We'll see. But it was definitely a nice response.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  13. #13
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    Talking

    Originally posted by Arty50
    Thanks everyone, especially you lph. I just got a really nice email response from the owner of 123.

    He was apologetic and wants me to come in and talk to him and straighten all this out. I was headed in there today anyway. We'll see. But it was definitely a nice response.
    Did you tell him to leave enough room for your fist?

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Punani
    Did you tell him to leave enough room for your fist?
    No...

    South Lake Tahoe Tribune:

    "Local resident Arty50 went on a killing spree this afternoon. While riding a half built mountain bike down the road he shot and killed over 50 people. Several witnesses overheard him saying, 'Motherfuckers, I want my bike finished NOW!!!!! Get some!!!!'"

    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Arty50
    "Local resident Arty50 went on a killing spree this afternoon. While riding a half built mountain bike down the road he shot and killed over 50 people. Several witnesses overheard him saying, 'Motherfuckers, I want my bike finished NOW!!!!! Get some!!!!'"

    and this was his bike:
    More fucked up than a cricket in a hubcap

  16. #16
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    I think this is pretty typical too...bike stores don't make much money off of selling the actual comlete in-store bikes, they get us on repairs or building bikes up. I got sick of this whole bike store mentallity so I went and took a bike class at REI. Minus having some fixturing to mill off the head tube and bottom bracket I can do anything those monkey's can. If I'm going to wait on my bike I'd rather do the work myself. I am a firm believer of you get what you pay for and if you want something done right do it yourself. go figure...

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Crinkle
    and this was his bike:

    Couldn't insert Crinkle's square wheeled bike photo
    Arty - I think they would find it to be justifiable homicide. What's the latest?
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Science-fiction author Robert Heinlein

  18. #18
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    I went in this afternoon and my voice started cracking because I was getting very angry. Note, I was pissed to begin with. I asked for the AMEX fee to get waived. "I'll ask the owner...I can't do that...low margins...blah...blah...blah." I explained to him that they've violated my trust in them and it needs to get fixed. Didn't say much else cause I had High Fidelity like visions of reaching across the counter and dropping a cash register on his head. He offered to have the bike ready tonight. I said wait until morning. I want to go over it with a fine tooth comb, not just run in and grab it.

    10 minutes later on my way home my brother calls. I'm telling him the deal and he alerts me to my stupidity. Merchants CANNOT charge an additional fee to use a certain card. For obvious reasons, it's against the agreements they sign with the credit card companies or the secondary credit card processing companies. So I called AMEX to confirm this and they said they'd call the store to correct the problem. Release the hounds!!!

    So I'm hoping to get a call in the next few minutes or by morning at the latest.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  19. #19
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    Yeah, you've got a store that's about to get a smack down from American Express. CC companies don't look fondly on that kind of behavior.

    They should have done things right in the first place.
    "if the city is visibly one of humankind's greatest achievements, its uncontrolled evolution also can lead to desecration of both nature and the human spirit."
    -- Melvin G. Marcus 1979

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by Arty50
    Merchants CANNOT charge an additional fee to use a certain card.
    you are mostly correct! Although heavily frowned upon by all major CC co.'s, if they have a sign visible that states " blah blah blah" then they can charge "blah blah blah". If there's no sign up, and you didn't sign an agreement stating "blah blah blah" then you actually have quite a bit of leverage now, because AMEX_will_decline to process for them and possibly sue them as well... Good job letting them know.

    Now I don't know what you agreed to pay for your bike, but at $100, 123bikes would be making money on your transaction w/ amex if it's less than (EDIT) more than $1500 total. A lot of money.
    Last edited by tibaher; 06-28-2004 at 09:55 PM.

  21. #21
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    After thinking about this all night and talking to friends and family, I decided to cancel the order. I could have walked out with my bike today, and I still said no. I brought them a twelve pack of Pacifico, thanked them for their work, and walked away.

    The big question was should I get the bike today knowing I would never go back there, not for warranty, parts, nothing; or should I just cut both of our losses and deal with someone that consistently takes care of their customers. I realized the latter makes a lot more sense.

    Going into the shop was difficult. I know what it's like to work in a retail setting and have to deal with assholes, pissed off customers, crackheads, etc. So it pains me to have to be like that. It's against my nature. But between my experience and what I've been hearing, I needed to do this. I expect a certain level of service with a purchase like this, and they weren't even close. I mean, I could buy another old Jeep for the price of this bike. I don't expect my ass kissed or anything. I do expect work to be done roughly when it's supposed to be. They were way off. I also don't like heavy sell tactics, which I'd gotten from day one.

    The owner was there, and my initial impression is that he's a passionate guy. That's good and bad in my mind. While it leads to an incredible amount of stoke, it can also bite you in the ass when things don't go so well. I'm simplifying, but I don't want to get into a long story. He was nice today, it was just a bit over the top though. Anyway, that's not what I want in a customer/shop relationship. I don't want volitility, nor do I expect to be best friends. I just want a friendly relationship that's based on trust.

    But they told me my bike would be ready when I got back from LA. Which was originally supposed to be Tuesday. I got stuck down there and didn't get back until Saturday. My bike still wasn't done. When confronted with this, the excuse was that I was out of town so they figured they had some extra time. Tuesday was already extra time. Saturday was already extra time. No more. My trust was shot, and asking me trust you about trusting you isn't reasonable at that point.

    So it may cost me more, and I won't have a bike for a while still. But I know I'll be getting it from a shop that I can trust to not only build me a great bike, but take care of it really well in the future. That's what you deserve when you're spending this much money on a bike.

    While I still feel like crap for having done this, I do feel a lot better. The last couple of days have sucked while I agonized over this. I'm starting to fell better now having it behind me. If I had gotten the bike, I would still be worrying about whether it was built properly and if I had to go back in there.

    Sorry for the long rant, everyone. Just know that all of your input was greatly appreciated and helped me to work this out.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  22. #22
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    Damn Arty, that sucks you had to go through all that BS. When I read your initial thread, I thought if it were me, I'd probably cancel the order, esepecially if there are other/better shops in the area. I think anytime you go through a bike shop to get a bike, especially a high-end job like the 5-spot, it is in their best interest to get it in, built and back to you as soon as possible.

    So does this mean you are still getting the 5-spot? Or do we get to help you choose a different bike all over again? Oh, one other thing, and maybe it's just me, but any shop that doesn't offer lifetime tunes on a bike you bought from them, just isn't a very good shop. Good luck with getting a new bike, again.

  23. #23
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    I'm sure you feel bad about cancelling the order but don't. These guys never went out of their way to help you out. You took a chance with them and they blew it. It is always better to pay a little more for a bike, skis or almost anything else when you know your getting a good product that the shop employees stand behind. Nothing helps a local company more then word of mouth praise. But along the same lines poor service and a bad reputation can put you out of business.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by CS
    Damn Arty, that sucks you had to go through all that BS. When I read your initial thread, I thought if it were me, I'd probably cancel the order, esepecially if there are other/better shops in the area. I think anytime you go through a bike shop to get a bike, especially a high-end job like the 5-spot, it is in their best interest to get it in, built and back to you as soon as possible.

    So does this mean you are still getting the 5-spot? Or do we get to help you choose a different bike all over again? Oh, one other thing, and maybe it's just me, but any shop that doesn't offer lifetime tunes on a bike you bought from them, just isn't a very good shop. Good luck with getting a new bike, again.
    I should have bought that Heckler!

    I'm still set on a 5-spot. As for the lifetime tunes, that's good to know. The owner above mentioned something like that. I can't recall if it was lifetime or just for a year though. It's definitely something I'd like though. The other thing they never did was take my measurements. When I asked about that, they just said they'd fit me after the bike was done. From what I understand, that's not how you do it. The bad news just kept building up as this deal went along. I had to cut it loose.

    I'm definitely going to make these two things a requirement when I go through this again: a comprehensive measurement and lifetime service.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  25. #25
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    At some point you have to ask yourself: would I have still done this deal if I had known it would turn out like this?

    Sounds like the answer was "no". Now you have to wait some more, but you can get the bike from a place you trust and respect. It'll be totally worth it over the life of the bike.

    I feel bad for 123bikes...clearly they're trying, but they just don't have it together. Unfortunately enthusiasm doesn't totally substitute for customer service and business sense. And $thousands is a lot of your money.

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