Shimano's new Wireless Shifters/Derailleurs - looking cool

[uncle crud]

You're right, Biopace wasn't a good idea, it was a GREAT idea.

Show us your BioPace equipped bikes, hopefully with lots of purple anodized Ringle bits! I want to see vid clips of you riding them at 120 rpm cadence. I want to do a thermal scan of your patellar tendon afterward, too.

[schuss]

Show us your BioPace equipped bikes, hopefully with lots of purple anodized Ringle bits! I want to see vid clips of you riding them at 120 rpm cadence. I want to do a thermal scan of your patellar tendon afterward, too.

bwahahahaa. I snapped like 4 sets of their purple bar ends before I finally switched to profiles.

Never had the biopace rings though, but a man can dare to dream.

[XXX-er]

Or how about shimano and their backward shifting ,it didnt fly the 1st time so they tried to reintroduce it at inter bike in 04 ... the next year everything came out with sram

[frorider]

UC wrote

Road races aren't won based on who has the most precise shifting.

I assume you're just having fun here by trolling and pretending to be clueless. good to have you back.

it's far to early to speculate as to whether the reliability and battery longevity live up to the hype. for that matter, it's speculation as to whether the actual weight of the system is as light as the shimano 'leak' claimed (note the quotes on that).

but yeah, from a technology point of view, this may end up being similar to the advent of paddle shifters in high performance cars. and the roadie racers are always looking for the extra edge in equipment...so if this provides even a small edge, it'll become established in high end road bikes. if not, or if there are reliability issues, it'll become a laughingstock.

i'm not interested in buying the technology, but as an engineer i can certainly see the potential benefits.

[Pegleg]

When do they come out with the brain implant so that you just think "shift up" and there it goes?

Except then the hottie in tight bike shorts rides by, and suddenly your chain is flung off your bike.

[uncle crud]

UC wrote * * *
I assume you're just having fun here by trolling and pretending to be clueless. good to have you back.

Who says I'm pretending?

[pechelman]

I do see the hypothetical gains. I just don't see the point of making a mechanical device into an electric one. More pollution to create the electricity and the storage cells, just for some Flash Gordon "gee whiz" factor?

Road races aren't won based on who has the most precise shifting.

maybe not, but some might be lost because of it

my last comment here is that if something is more ergonomic, especially over a long race like most any of the Tour or Giro or whatever stages, that rider will be less fatigued in the long run and have better control and more strength toward the end of the race or in a tight situation.

Additionally, for anyone who has ridden a road bike, they know its not the easiest thing to brake & shift at the same time. You shouldnt be needing to do this, but we dont always have that luxury. Id imagine with this technology, shifting while braking would be ridiculously easy. Id even bet they could find a way to der the chain without actually turning the pedals. How about that?

if the jog wheel idea wasnt neato enough, what about a touch pad type sensor...say maybe like those fancy dimmers in homes. the sky is the limit here.

as a not complete aside, this type of bio mechatronic type stuff is really catching on in other fields. I can honestly see that in 5-10 years times, doctors preforming delicate surgeries wont even handle instruments any more, but actually control them with a robot. We're doing this today and its really showing its true capabilities, which is to say, absolutely amazing.

but who knows....maybe the professional cycling association or whatever its called will ban this technology as a "rider aid" much like how the FIA has\had bans on things like power steering, power brakes, abs, or traction\launch controls as drivers aids that took the "skill" out of driving.

[uncle crud]

pechelman -- you really find it that hard to shift and brake simultaneously with dual-control levers?

I can understand the old days of downtube-shifters and handlebar-brakes, but today? I don't have problems shifting and braking simultaneously, and I'm not a serious roadie -- surely not as at home on a road bike as the top racers who would be the target audience here.

I just see this as gadgetizing. Just because technology exists doesn't mean it has to be used. Manhattan Project, anyone?

[pechelman]

well ive got an older version of the 105 shifters on my bike
not that old i guess, but theyre from 2002 i think?

its not *hard*, but i can tell you its not at all precise to try to shift & brake at the same time
generally when im doing it, im downshifting, which isnt as well indexed as a single click to upshift

so ive got 2 "infinitely variable" levers which I have to manage simultaneously
obviously the braking takes priority
i see big gains here by removing the complexity of the upshift during braking

im not uber geek roadie either and i dont push the limits at all
i ride for fun and fitness, but i can see racers really wanting to threshold brake and exit the turn in the right gear
shift beforehand someone will say

well if you shift beforehand, then you lose the capability to accelerate up to the turn
since acceleration is the lowest capability for a human powered bike, its also the easiest and quickest way to make up time
braking is pretty darn good and is pretty easy to threshold late brake at high accelerations
since this is a short duration deccel, its leaves the rider with less time to brake and also makes the braking much more critical
have the ability to be in the right gear coming out, again maybe even with the possibility to not even need to pedal to advance gears, would be huge imo.
again, being in the right gear out of the turn means you can accelerate at your peak level right away, which is important, because again, it is a human powered bikes weakest ability to accelerate.

anyway
thats my argument coming from 4 years of race design, racedriving seminars, vehicle dynamic analysis, and data acquisition.

UC, this is most definitely gadgetizing for people like you or me or 90% (or higher) of the public
i totally agree and i dont see it being mainstream
theres no need for it. i think we're in complete agreement there, and thats not why im arguing my side here.

i dont think this is gadgetizing at all at the top echelons as they actually have a use for it and can really use it to pickup time


and whoever made that CVT comment, is dead fkn on
that would be absolutely killer on a road bike if it could be done for a reasonable weight


edit: another crazy idea
you could completely remove shifting from the levers or bars totally and not even make them need a physical interface
imagine placing a couple accelerometers on the ends of your riding gloves, say one on your index and one on the middle. just flick the finger, it would sense a certain peak accel in one direction, and then transmit that signal directly to the rear der, and then shift. would be pretty amazing and id imagine some rides would love this capability when theyre climbing on the flats rather than the drops or hoods.
anyway, i think im done day dreaming for the day.

[philippeR]

pechelman -- you really find it that hard to shift and brake simultaneously with dual-control levers?

I can understand the old days of downtube-shifters and handlebar-brakes, but today? I don't have problems shifting and braking simultaneously, and I'm not a serious roadie -- surely not as at home on a road bike as the top racers who would be the target audience here.

I just see this as gadgetizing. Just because technology exists doesn't mean it has to be used. Manhattan Project, anyone?

Downtube-shifters and handlebar-brakes are where it's at. Damn technophile.

[1wsguy]

Id even bet they could find a way to der the chain without actually turning the pedals. How about that?

Shimano has already done that. It was called Shimano FFS (front freewheel system).

The crankset had a freewheel mechanism, and the cog set in back was fixed gear. The chain was always moving, even when coasting.

It made quite a mess when things weren't lined up right!

[joetron]

Who says I'm pretending?

Not me.

You just compared electronic bicycle shifting to the Manhattan Project.




I think Airlines was cool as well. You ever actually use those things? Buttery.

[kidwoo]

Airlines were fun.


Remembering to recharge your fire extinguisher on the other hand............

[InspectorGadget]

...rider will be less fatigued in the long run and have better control and more strength toward the end of the race or in a tight situation.

Isn't that why they invented EPO?

[psylicyde]

Nice!

[Rontele]

and people ask why road biking is kind of ghey?

[gh444]

Way above my head pech but thanks for the daydreaming.

First, if it works even just as well as mechanical shifters and it is actually lighter, it will mainstream regardless of price. I've never seen anything like road biking as far as gearheads and "keeping up with the jones".
Electronic braking doesn't even effectively happen in cars at this point so I don't see it happening in bikes anytime soon.

I am a little curious as to how electronic means wireless. Being that I'm an engineering idiot, how exactly does that work? I don't know that these are one in the same.....


That being said, having just completed a 25 mile city ride on my fixed gear without even touching my brakes once, I'm thinking I'll never want either electronic braking or electronic shifting

[gh444]

When googling electric brakes I found this article; http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1891

How fitting.

[kidwoo]

and people ask why road biking is kind of ghey?

They call that pose "presenting".

[uncle crud]

Not me.

You just compared electronic bicycle shifting to the Manhattan Project.

I was going for absurd hyperbole. Did I get close?

I think Airlines was cool as well. You ever actually use those things? Buttery.

Nope, never tried 'em, I just remember the pictures. I seem to remember they were introduced in the era of blue and purple anodizing, the Hite-Rite, and the first bar-ends.

[dingbat]

When googling electric brakes I found this article; http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1891

How fitting.

Yeah, but could it replace skins?

[Wandrin*]

If we want to get rid of mechanical action on a bicycle, it's not a bicycle any more.

* More than one gear
* More than five gears
* More than ten gears
* More than twenty gears
* Rubber tire improvements
* Aluminum, Titanium, Carbon
* Front Suspension
* Rear Suspension
* Disc Brakes

I guess all these horrible aberrations make it not a bike, either.

Disc brakes, and the reduction in hand force it takes to generate extreme braking force, are in exactly the same category as these parts.

[Wandrin*]

This will never, however, be a good idea for mtn bikes.

Why? I think it would be even more useful in a 3x10 shifting environment to reduce chain rub, possibly eliminate cross-chaining, and speed up shifts in sketchy environments like riding up slippy slopes.

[uncle crud]

* More than one gear
* More than five gears
* More than ten gears
* More than twenty gears
* Rubber tire improvements
* Aluminum, Titanium, Carbon
* Front Suspension
* Rear Suspension
* Disc Brakes

I guess all these horrible aberrations make it not a bike, either.

Disc brakes, and the reduction in hand force it takes to generate extreme braking force, are in exactly the same category as these parts.

Subtlety is not one of your strong points. Please go back and rethink.

As someone who rides a FS bike with disc brakes and a CB Joplin post, I'm fully aware that some developments are positive. Please use MORE of your noggin's contents next time, and try to figure out what point I'm ACTUALLY making, rather than what point you MISTAKENLY ASSUME me to be making.

Thanks.

Why? I think it would be even more useful in a 3x10 shifting environment to reduce chain rub, possibly eliminate cross-chaining, and speed up shifts in sketchy environments like riding up slippy slopes.

Wow, you're a genuine fucktard. You think all those rookie errors should be overcome with technology. Here's a fucking hint for you.

Chain rub is a problem with installation/adjustment.

Cross-chaining is a problem with a MORONIC RIDER at the controls.

Riding up "slippy slopes" is a skill that must be mastered and technology will not change that.

How about a bike that makes you instantly a pro? I bet you'd love that one! Why learn anything when you can pretend to be something through technology!

Guess that point is too tough for you to understand -- fundamental skills, etc. Wouldn't want to bother with them, not when technology is available!

GO FUTURISTS! SPACE-AGE!

[toast2266]

Mavic did wireless shifting over a decade ago. It sucked.
I'm assuming that this stuff will be better, meaning that you can't just kick the derailleur of your opponent and keep them from shifting for the rest of the race.