Thread: Riding in Wilderness/poaching.

Let's discuss.

For example, at dusk, on perfect (no damage) trail conditions, in non-critical wildlife habitat, when there are no cars in any parking lot?

Or should it be held sacrosanct, even when said trail used to be a logging road, and in an area not any more 'wild' than a trail a few miles away?

it was good, wasn't it?

This is all hypothetical.

I wouldn't do it. I might want to go to canada one day....

A personal decision. I have done such a thing and didn't really enjoy it that much.

Happens occasionally. I've seen it done more'n once.

It's much more entertaining for everybody if you post your detailed itinerary beforehand, then follow up with a photo TR & map with GPS track on it. Signed, dated, witnessed and notarized.

I don't have any plans to, but I'd LOVE to ride up Timpanogos. 8 miles of totally rideable singletrack to 11,000+ft.

i would never ever ever do that.

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ing+wilderness

search function jong.

It's funny actually, b/c I've hiked up Moose Creek many times and thought how good the riding would be...then one time there with my dog I saw a group of three guys in a hail storm flying down, 'round dusk about 6 years ago. Maybe it was you?

I still have not given in to temptation, but there is a buttload of good non-wilderness riding 'round here

Originally Posted by David Witherspoon

Happens occasionally. I've seen it done more'n once.

It's much more entertaining for everybody if you post your detailed itinerary beforehand, then follow up with a photo TR & map with GPS track on it. Signed, dated, witnessed and notarized.

I like being reminded you have a sense of humor.


Despite your parody scenario, I've seen it done. There's a pit of incubating human stupidity called mtbr.com. I assume you've heard of it.

All the wilderness stuff we have in NE is trails that were created by people a bazillion years ago and are straight up and down. No flow. No fun.

(except Ravine Trail going down. Braaaapppp)

mtbr? "Meaty Brains"? Never heard of ... well, actually I'm the second most hated poster over there.

I've almost given up parody. Seems that every time I try lately, somebody tells me a true tale that makes my attempted parodies seem tame by comparison.

But seriously ... they didn't notarize it, did they? Give me that, at least!

Originally Posted by David Witherspoon

I've almost given up parody. Seems that every time I try lately, somebody tells me a true tale that makes my attempted parodies seem tame by comparison.

But seriously ... they didn't notarize it, did they? Give me that, at least!

Okay.


Here we go.


There was a guy (kid mentally) who used to live here. He was notorious for building really crappy, dangerously constructed features for the lame ass little huckster videos a buddy of his produced. I found one of these things with a note on some cardboard stating something along the lines of 'this is for a photo shoot, don't mess with it' but ended with what I cherished: "problems? call xxx-xxx-xxxx."

I work in a place where phone calls show up as either unlisted or "US government."

So of course I called him. I informed him that I was Ranger so and so from the local tahoe forest management district and that he needed to come in a speak with me. I knew the kid so I knew where he lived, where he worked etc and let him know this.

I can only assume he came in. Hopefully defensive and asking what the word 'riparian' meant which is something I mentioned as part of the charges being brought up against him. But yes. Mountainbikers can be that stupid. Not an official notary but fun nonetheless.

Originally Posted by rideit

Or should it be held sacrosanct, even when said trail used to be a logging road, and in an area not any more 'wild' than a trail a few miles away?

you've built illegal (officially unauthorized) trails in wilderness areas (you've stated as much, and, yes, i am familiar with the issues), so why have a conscience about riding a trail?

personally, i would weigh the temporary satisfaction of riding the trail (perhaps it is super-high in this case) against the potential damage done to the cause of mountain biking. (e.g., getting caught, setting a bad example) is that the best way to advance the cause? i dunno.

while i don't think certain prohibitions are fair, i think it's disingenuous to ride illegally while also complaining about, say, people riding dirt bikes on MTB trails illegally.

Do it atleast once a week usually more.

Originally Posted by upallnight

you've built illegal (officially unauthorized) trails in wilderness areas (you've stated as much, and, yes, i am familiar with the issues), .

Actually, UAN, I have never, ever built trail in wilderness. And as a matter fact, even after being here >10 years, and riding everything that I could possibly want to, I can count the times riding in 'wilderness' as under 3 hours. (most of that mistakenly)

Seriously.

If you knew the trail culture over here, you would know this to be true.

There really has never been the need (all of the stuff we have built is in NF, and mostly all of it has been adapted by the FS as system trail...call it a method to the madness, but it has worked)


The only reason that I brought this up tonight is that I rationalized following my pooch up said trailhead(carrying my bike on my shoulder, duh)...and guess what: There is simply no plausible reason that it is bicycle prohibited. As a matter of fact, to have gone and ridden in the Big Holes would have caused more damage, in wasted fuel. What is more important...hikers feelings, or increased carbon emissions? Where is the logic on the designation, when horses do 10X the damage?

All the wilderness stuff we have in NE is trails that were created by people a bazillion years ago and are straight up and down. No flow. No fun.

not true in the adk-at least the central adk-there's alot of good stuff that's off limits for bikes-but ok for horses-

I haven't but there are a couple I would like to.

So what are the consequences of getting caught?

If said trails had been around for decades and were long-time favorites that might see 10 users over a busy weekend, but had recently been targeted by an overzealous douche who at one time was responsible for the most damaging enduro mx race in the country and claims to have the local users interests in mind, yet blatantly screwed the mtb community and is actually taking his orders from a desk jockey in Durango who's never even laid eyes on said trails, or proposed area or even the state as a whole, well then, yeah, I probably would.

Originally Posted by Dantheman

So what are the consequences of getting caught?

i have heard rumor somewhere that some of the rangers carry around pedal wrenches and take your pedals

not sure if theres truth in that tho

Did it last Sunday, by accident, because the trail in question had lost its Wilderness area boundary sign... most likely due to massive blowdown from lots of storms this spring and summer. Have done it before by accident for similar reasons -- signs missing or obscured, couldn't say which, 'cause I didn't see them.

Based on "Boots not Bikes," it seems that if some trustafarian dweebs get their way, we're all gonna have to poach.

Originally Posted by Dantheman

So what are the consequences of getting caught?

We have a legit trail here in MN that butts up to Federal management land and they can and have confiscated bikes for riding onto the Fed Wildlife Mgt land. So I guess if you poach, and someone calls out to you, ride faster.

Jay

They sometimes take your skewers from your front wheel, but I don't know of anyone that has lost pedals...

Originally Posted by Dantheman

So what are the consequences of getting caught?

I believe the penalty for cycling in NF areas not open to said activities is punishable by a maximum fine of $5000 and 6 months jail time.