HR training...

[gonzo]

So i have been trying to focus on getting back into good cardio shape now that the weather is good - biking and running. if there was topography here i wouldn't worry about my HR and would go out and have fun, but since there is none, i am trying to focus on my HR to make it interesting.

anyways, i have read a bunch about it and keep finding that the best area for improvement is staying in the 65 to 75% range for a good long while (several weeks) - eventually the inensity and pace you can maintain in that range increases and does so more rapidly than if you work out at different levels.

that said, it is boring as fuck because my 65 - 75% pace is moderate on my bike and very slow running. i guess i am used to working out at 85 - 90% (albiet when i did I saw nearly zero improvement in running times after 6+ months).

so i am willing to give this a shot for a while longer if people have had good experiences with it. otherwise i am going to go back to red-lining it all the time. any knowledge is greatly appreciated.

[irul&ublo]

Originally posted by gonzo
so i am willing to give this a shot for a while longer if people have had good experiences with it.

Lance Armstrong.

[Mulletizer]

I find that exercise at 75% of the "standard" rate gets me no where. I find I have to redline to feel I have had a decent workout and to improve. I do have some kind of strange heart condition so I prolly shouldn't do that though...

[Vinman]

It will work, give it time. On the bike break it up by doing intervals. This will give you something "fun' and challenging to prevent boredom.

See here for more info. This web site is based on time trial racing but you can apply it to regular cycling. http://www.timetrialtraining.co.uk/

[13]

I've been throttling my HR to 85-90% for a month now and have already seen a significant improvement.

[joshbu]

Gonz:

How did you measure your max? The typical formula approach is not accurate in all cases. The best way to get your max is to make an appointment with a trainer or someone who is qualified to administer an actual maximum heart rate test. (You medical insure might cover this.)

[Karl Stall]

R,

I was going to start a thread on this, as it consumes me. I spin 4X a week, and work a step mill with a back pack the other three.

Spinning, which is a 55 minute burn, I average about 155-163 beats per minute, which is about 85% of my target (max) rate of 186.

Plain and simple, this shit will change your life. I know that some people say that that lower zone is good too, but given your age and general level of fitness, my spinning guru (hot mid-40's MILF) said to add at least 10 beats to my "target rate" to compute my numbers. Therefore, your 75% rate will be much less tolerable, and more productive - it should not be comfortable.

My friends think I need a support group for my addiction to this shit, but, hey, you no I live in flat humid hell here in StL!

Hope that stuff is some help.

[Karl Stall]

Gonzo,

One more thing: this Sat-Sun I have my roomate from Deerfield coming into town just for some wakeboarding.

We'll ride til sunset and then grab a steak downtown, after which we're going to see a sweet live band at Broadway Oyster Bar, and you could even end up in Sauget, sampling some of America's finest strip clubs.

You are most definitely invited!

[Viva]

I never used a heart rate monitor. It would have been irrelevant for my kind of training/racing.

It's your call on what you feel comfortable with. Most people can learn to figure out what pace is appropriate if they train enough.

[gonzo]

i used a forumla on the runners world site to get my max. it was pretty much what my max that i have seen is - about 193. that is what i will hit after doing interval sprints or a full bore 5k.

karl - interesting what your instructor said. working at 75-85 would be way more satisfying for me. doing bricks from bike to run my run is literally as slow as i can go. such a pain in the ass.

karl my last final is thursday and i am driving back friday - stary work in B town Monday. that sounds like an awesome day though. after seeing those pics i am definitely going to get down there ASAP. next year will be a bit easier on me. thanks for the invite! talked to honc last night - he is loving life in san fran. i hate him.

[homerjay]

Without having it measured, you can find a hill that gradually steepens, then go ride your bike up the hill as fast as you can. You'll find your max heart rate there.

I had success with the following formula: 180-age, so for me it's 153. That's where you should be for the majority of your workouts. One day a week - hard, meaning intervals, get that HR up high. One day a week - long. Leave the HR monitor at home and go jog for 1.5-2 hr or bike for 3-4 hr. The other 3 or 4 days a week work at your target (180-age).

Random thoughts:
Don't do long day and hard day consecutively.
Rest is an extremely important part of training.
Active recovery (light spin to the coffee shop or around the park) helps with soreness.
Mix it up - different types of interval work and different excercises, routes, etc.
Keep it fun.
You'll get faster by going longer, not harder.

[gonzo]

intervals meaning going above your target?

[Oarhead]

Your body adapts to change. That is the biggest thing that you have to understand. It is a physiology thing called something like the "Bricklayer Phenomenon": When a new guy starts to do bricklaying and stuff like that the dude gets ripped huge, muscles popping out everywhere. Eventually the muscles fade and the ripped body gets softer. The body is still very capable of doing the task but it has grown accustomed to the constant task and stops adapting. How does this relate to training?
You need to shake it up a bit.

It all depends upon how much time you have for training. If you have a good amount of time available (every day - 2hrs at least) then I would reccomend a lot of cardio sitting in the trange of 70-75% of max. Use your heartrate monitor to figure it out from several ball-kicker workouts, don't use the 220-(your age) crap. You should try to amke each session a minimum of 50 minutes work time and don't rest hardly at all. A generally steady work level is where you want to be to get the training effect. Change the work ratio lelvels in whatever you are doing: cycling RPMs, running - stride length. This makes you more efficient at different work levels and more importantly gives you something to think about so your mind is working.

At least once a week do a session of intense anaerobic threshold work. This could be 4 to 6 x 12 - 15 min pieces at approx 80-85% with not too much rest time (less than 5 minutes - ACTIVE rest though). Minimum 20min warm up and 20 min warmdown. Lactic acid is not good for the muscles and the glycogen stores - you need to clear it. Also as the season gets closer to racing move up to higher intesity but shorter work times.

Also do a higher intensity workout with blasters: shorter time 1-2 minutes, HIGH intensity, equal rest time to work time.

Also try and do a strength endurance (STEW) workout every 2 weeks. For this we used to have a cicuit of 15 excercises int he gym. Do 30 reps at each excercise (2-4 seconds per rep - fast for the movement and slow in returning to position), move onto the next station with no rest. Mix it up so that it is a full body and that you include about 5 core stations and that you are not really repeating body parts in consecutive stations. After the full circuit take a 5 min break - nibble on something as this burns a lot of fuel. Start again. Do the circuit 3 times - should take you around 90 mintutes. If you are getting good at it move up to 40 then 50 then 60 reps for a few excercise that really work the muscles that you want the most (for us it was squats, leg press, jump squats with weight, dead lift and all the core stations). Most importatnly keep the weight light so that you don't blow your wad in the first round - 50-60% of max weight. Stews really suck bag but make you a machine.

Anyways, shake it up and don't do the same routine week after week. Try and make a 4 week cycle for yourself: Week 1; Week 2 - harder than week 1 with higher intensity and work duration; Week 3 harder than week 2 again stepping it up; Week 4 - nice and easy, recovery, a bit easier than week 1. Week 5 like week 1 but a little bit harder... and so on. This way you are moving in a stepwise fashion.

Take your rest seriously, I found that the rest is jsut as important as the work.

Sorry that this ran on a bit.

[homerjay]

Originally posted by gonzo
intervals meaning going above your target?

Intervals vary, but yeah, go 85-90% recover, etc. repeat over and over again. What's cool is that you don't go alot faster at 90% than you do at 85%, yet you can maintain 85% and 90%+ will make you blow up.

Oarhead explained it well.

[The AD]

Originally posted by gonzo
that said, it is boring as fuck because my 65 - 75% pace is moderate on my bike and very slow running. i guess i am used to working out at 85 - 90% (albiet when i did I saw nearly zero improvement in running times after 6+ months).

I bet you would have seen improvement if you were training for a 100 yard dash. It all depends on what you're training for. If you're training for a long distance run or bike, there's probably not much need to ever train in an anaerobic, high HR, zone. If you're trying to be in great shape for skiing you need to add some in there because skiing has a large anaerobic component.

[gonzo]

awesome - this has been super helpful, as usual.

oarhead you have brought me straight back to my rowing days - HR training hadn't really caught on yet - we all had monitors but i was always trying to beat the guy next to me or not puke from my hangover. you guys are fucking nuts. we did the stews you describe but all plyometically - fucking bad...thanks again.

[Viva]

Originally posted by The AD
It all depends on what you're training for. If you're training for a long distance run or bike, there's probably not much need to ever train in an anaerobic, high HR, zone.

If you're racing, speed work will help regardless of the distance. You want to be able to cover the distance as quickly as possible come race day. A heart rate monitor doesn't help during speed training; if you're going too slow, coach shoots paint balls at you.

[Flash]

There is some good advice in this thread.

Like KS, I am addicted to my heart rate monitor. I think it is the best training tool available.

In my opinion, the most important thing about HRM training is not the ability to measure max effort, but the ability to train effectively. For example, in the past when I ran, I pushed myself to high levels of effort every time (that whole "no pain no gain" thing), regardless of the type of workout I was doing (intervals, speed work...etc). When I bought my monitor, I read everything I could on the topic. It turns out, most authors agree that lower effort workouts are key to improved performance. Although doubtful at first, I now totally agree.

The key is to figure out your anaerobic threshold, and then craft a training schedule with workouts both above and below that threshold. Lower intensity workouts allow for increased duration (i.e., increased mileage), and help your body become more efficient at processing fuel and oxygen. They also allow for better recovery and therefore fresher legs for the next hard workout. It sounds counter-intuitive to back off on the intensity, but it really does work.

The first time I tried to run below my anaerobic threshold, I couldn't do it for long before walking (and I thought I was in good shape at the time). I just wasn't efficient at processing O2. Although it felt silly, I kept to my training schedule, and quickly improved. Since then, I have run the fastest times of my life, and much greater distances as well.

The HRM is a cool thing. There are lots of good books on the subject. Although the author is not a great writer, this is the one I liked the best.

Hope this helps....

[gonzo]

flash - your account is similar to what i have heard.

how did you figure your threshold?

is it ok to do workouts above and below the threshold or should you stick below it for a long time and let your base build?

[Flash]

Gonz:

The book I referenced above contains a formula that calculates the threshold. Unfortunately, I don't remember the calculation off-hand. I will try to remember to look it up and send it to you or post it here.

I do workouts both above and below my threshold, and since I started training with an HRM, I have always done a mix of hard and easy days. A typical week for me has three "hard" days, meaning all-out, above-threshold workouts (essentially what I used to do everytime I ran), and the rest of my training days are typically below-threshold (plus, usually one day off per week). Although these below-threshold days are not as difficult, I add milage or duration to those days, so I end up doing a lot more milage per week. Even though I now run more miles per week, I feel a lot more fresh, and I have fewer aches and pains than I used to have. I also mix in the bike when I can.

I am definitely not an expert in sports-science, but this method has worked well for me.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

[truth]

Eliciting Your Anaerobic Threshold
If you have access to expensive and sophisticated laboratory equipment and a skilled lab technician, testing your anaerobic threshold is simple. Assuming that you don't...


There are a couple of alternatives worth considering. For each of them you do require a heart rate monitor. Having said that in order to improve your anaerobic threshold and your endurance a heart rate monitor is essential anyway.


1. 10 Minute Run
Run or cycle for at least 20 minutes. Gradually increase your speed and heart rate. You will eventually reach a point where your breathing rate suddenly increases sharply and your legs feel a bit jelly like.


Instinctively you'll know that you can't maintain a steady state any longer -- at this pace you will become more and more fatigued. Glance at your monitor and note your heart rate. Although this is quite a subjective test it can be very accurate.


2. One Hour Time Trial
This is probably the most common anaerobic threshold test used in the field. You need to be able to run or cycle at the highest intensity you can sustain for one hour. Inexperienced athletes will either start off too fast and have to slow down, or perform the entire test too slowly. Runners can substitute the one hour time trial for a 10k race.


You should record your heart rate regularly -- ideally every 2 minutes. Average your heart rate over the hour or 10k to give you an indication of your anaerobic threshold heart rate.


3. Conconi Test
The Conconi test is more complicated than the above two methods and not necessarily any more accurate. In fact the test has been shown to OVER-estimate the anaerobic threshold considerably in many athletes.


Accuracy is also highly dependant on your ability to gradually increase speed smoothly and consistently. All things considered you are best using one of the other tests.


4. Portable Lactate Analyser
Using a portable analyser will give you the same accuracy as a lab test providing you know what you are doing. This is only worth considering if you are a serious athlete. The cost starts at around $400. For more information see www.lactate.com


Once you have determined a heart rate that you feel corresponds to your anaerobic threshold you can start to design athletic training sessions to improve it...

[truth]

Anaerobic Threshold Training
Anaerobic threshold training is relatively straight forward once you have established your target heart rate zone. The intensity of training sessions should be at or just below your anaerobic threshold.

Anaerobic threshold training sessions can take the form of either interval or continuous training. Interval training should consist of three to five, 6-12 minute intervals. The rest period between intervals should be 2-3 minutes. Ideally you would reach your target heart rate as quickly as possible -- inside a minute.


A typical anaerobic threshold training session for a cyclist might be...


Interval Training Session
Frequency 2x week
Intensity 95-100% ATHR*
No. intervals 5
Interval time 10mins
Rest intervals 3mins



* ATHR = Anaerobic Threshold Heart Rate


A continuous training session to improve anaerobic threshold should last for 20-45 minutes. This is more demanding than the interval session so build up to it gradually.


Interval Training Session
Frequency 2x week
Intensity 95-100% ATHR
Time 20-45mins



To wrap up...


Anaerobic threshold is more reliable indicator of your performance than VO2max. More importantly...


Anaerobic threshold is generally more responsive to training, especially if you are regularly active.

[truth]

Heart Rate Monitor Training
What is a heart rate monitor and how can it improve my performance?
Is it just a fad or is there a scientific basis for training with such devices?

Like any combustion engine, your body uses oxygen and fuel to generate energy. The cardiovascular system delivers oxygen to the skeletal muscles, which then use this oxygen to "burn" various fuels (carbohydrate and fat) to yield mechanical energy. A unique feature of your body is its ability to change in response to the demands placed on it. By working out hard, you overload your aerobic systems. During rest, your body adapts to make you stronger. This is accomplished by improvements in cardiovascular and muscular function. The heart becomes stronger and more efficient and the skeletal muscles become better at extracting oxygen from the bloodstream. Within muscle cells, the mitochondria boost their enzyme systems to oxidize fuels.

All of these changes occur slowly over time. For continued improvement, you must continue to overload these systems. As you adapt, however, you require harder workouts to do this. How do you know if you are training at the right level? Physiologists have discovered that the rate of oxygen "burned" in the muscles is the best measure of aerobic work. To determine this requires expensive equipment and specialized testing facilities. Basically, an individual runs on a treadmill while heart rate and volume of inhaled and exhaled air are measured. Samples of exhaled air are periodically taken and the oxygen concentration determined. The difference between the amount of oxygen breathed in and out during the test is what the muscles have consumed to burn fuel. The rate of oxygen consumption, in liters per minute, is called VO2. The test is done at progressively harder levels until the individual "maxes" out. The maximum rate of oxygen consumption is called the VO2(max).

Research on VO2 has shown that there is a threshold below which no additional gains are achieved in aerobic exercise. For most people, this is a pace that allows for casual conversation during the workout, and is approximately 55% of VO2(max). Above this level you are sufficiently overloading your cardiovascular and muscular systems to bring about improvement. The lab equipment is much too bulky to take with you on the road. So, how do you know if you are above this level in your workouts?

The heart rate is much easier to measure and is a very good approximation of VO2. The relationship between percentage of maximum heart rate and percentage of VO2(max) is very predictable and is independent of age, gender, or level of fitness. 55% VO2(max) corresponds to about 70% max heart rate. Thus once you have determined your maximum heart rate, you have a very convenient method of monitoring your workouts.

Now that you understand the science, how do you use it to get faster? First, you must determine what your maximum heart rate is. Most people have seen the equation:

Max Heart Rate (bpm) = 220 minus age in years

This is only a rough approximation, and there is considerable variation between individuals of the same age. You can directly determine your maximum heart rate by an exercise stress test. It is vitally important that you undergo a physical examination prior to any stress test, especially if you are over 35.

Once you have determined your maximum heart rate, you can construct a target zone for your workouts. The aerobic training zone is usually between 70% and 90% max heart rate. Most training schedules incorporate different types of workouts (eg. long slow distance, high intensity intervals). You can construct different target zones depending upon the type of workout you are performing. The heart rate monitor helps you stay in that zone so that you can achieve your goal for that workout.

The biggest advantage of using this approach in your training schedule is the ability to account for improvement. Suppose a 30 year old male averages 9 minutes per mile for a 10km workout with an average heart rate of 145 beats per minute. As he improves, his average heart rate will decrease for the same 9 minutes per mile. If he focuses only on keeping a constant time of 9 minutes per mile, he will reach a point where his workout no longer challenges his aerobic system. At this point, his workout can only maintain aerobic fitness and no further improvement can occur. If, however, he focuses on keeping an average of 145 beats per minute for each workout, he will apply a constant overload to his aerobic system. Over months, his average time per mile should steadily decrease. Another advantage is the ability to account for variable terrain and wind. Take our 30 year old and make him run into a 20 mph head wind. Clearly, he must perform extra work per mile. The heart rate monitor helps him keep the applied load constant even though his time will necessarily be slower.

[Karl Stall]

Truth,

Am I to understand that you're training for Alaska - good boy...

[truth]

Originally posted by Karl Stall
Truth,

Am I to understand that you're training for Alaska - good boy...

Indeed.