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  1. #51
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    the 186 length on the rocker had to do with feedback i had gotten from other people on EHPs and DPS as well as my own experiences on lots of random skis. It also had to do with what length I thought was a good comprimise for this skis intended use and market.

    I will also say that Id have never made a 186 if I hadnt also designed a 196.
    Thus far, as far as I know, 186 has been it, but we're just starting to talk about the bigger brother.
    Actually i need to call Pat back to talk it over.

    but length isnt the only factor in a ski like this thats rockered and heavily tapered
    effective edge plays a big role as well.

  2. #52
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    ive never been on a rockered ski. what length does the 186 ski like? ie what does it throw around like? Im interested in a pair, but 186 is a big ski for me on the EC

    /jong
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingsamurai View Post
    ive never been on a rockered ski. what length does the 186 ski like? ie what does it throw around like? Im interested in a pair, but 186 is a big ski for me on the EC

    /jong
    it depends on the snow honestly

    on super hard ice bulletproof
    they will ski short
    like 165 type short
    this is due to their effective edge
    they arent the most stable here and have a speed limit imo, but are not scary to ski and are not in any sense of the phrase, needing to use a "survival skiing" technique as some people say about spats....which again, imo, isnt survival skiing either, but i digress
    however, put them on edge, be gentle with your angulation, stay balanced, and theyll put a smile on your face....so long as you dont want them to carve bulletproof every day 24/7. They do it, and do it OK, but its not my first choice. (should be a "duh")

    Put some fresh fluff down ontop of firm or a soft base, and these come alive
    they seem to arc about 25-30m turns if you dont slide them around but can slide them around whenever, however, and whatever you please

    in bottomless pow, they ski like a 186 pow ski
    i think theres a little speed limit on them if you get sloppy and dont stay in the drivers seat, but thats more of a pilot input\error than the ski

    really theyre very fun and easy to ski in tight spots and in difficult\variable\heavy snow
    theyre not as easy to slash, pivot, or slide as spats, but they're a lot more rewarding imo to ski. it feels more like a real ski than a toy, again, imo.
    id still wager though that skis like spats, praxis, or 138s are better in horrible breakable crust or really nasty avy debris.

    If you can ski a 175 in pow and a 165 on ice, then you can ski these
    ie if you dont suck, know how to ski a little bit, and are taller than about 5'4 and weigh more than 110-120lbs, these should be fine. As for the upper limit, Id say about 6' and 200lbs.
    Last edited by pechelman; 06-03-2008 at 02:09 PM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonehuckin View Post
    I ski the 192 rockered carbons. By far my favorite ski of all time. A great alternative to the Brocker for those of us a bit over the 200lbs mark



    I did get to ski the Brockers in Utah this winter in one hell of a storm. I can see exactly how someone lighter than myself would enjoy them in many conditions.
    Rockered carbon 192?

    Splat, is there an option for a rocker on the 192?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    the 186 length on the rocker had to do with feedback i had gotten from other people on EHPs and DPS as well as my own experiences on lots of random skis. It also had to do with what length I thought was a good comprimise for this skis intended use and market.

    I will also say that Id have never made a 186 if I hadnt also designed a 196.
    Thus far, as far as I know, 186 has been it, but we're just starting to talk about the bigger brother.
    Actually i need to call Pat back to talk it over.

    but length isnt the only factor in a ski like this thats rockered and heavily tapered
    effective edge plays a big role as well.
    Pechelman,

    What is your take on the relationship between rocker and sidecut? I know that IMO one of the biggest failings of my sally rockers is that because the sidecut begins where the ski is not contacting the snow, the ski will not carve unless you weight your heels through the turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by twodogs View Post
    Hey Phill, why don't you post your tax returns, here on TGR, asshole. And your birth certificate.

  6. #56
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    referring to tip sidecut only (ie ~ tip width - waist width)

    its a tricky balance between having enough tip sidecut to "settle out" the tip of the ski when it has rocker
    ie, the more sidecut the easier and quicker it will be to engage the tip and keep it from flapping on firm

    similarly, too much sidecut with a rocker ski, and it gets too hooky and is really unstable or can be

    solly has a good bit of rocker and not a huge amount of sidecut if i remember it right, so skiing from the heel, or skiing from the tail sidecut is a totally reasonable way to carve them....much how one "carves" a spat or a 138

    its a tricky balance, and with skis like the 186, im currently convinced that less rocker is better and more tip sidecut (up to a point), is also better. change things up like with something shaped like a goode scoop, praxis, arg, or 138 and thats a different story.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingsamurai View Post
    poops self
    details...bossass...you know just as well as I do that splat is in a drug induced coma/haze

    its your duty to enlighten the world
    Splat let me borrow a version of the Brocker with exaggerated rocker compared to the normal version. Unfortunately, I didn't really get much time on them before I gave them back, and I never skied the normal version, so I can't really compare. They seemed to be the shit though, and a certain pro skier who knows a thing or two about rockered skis, lets call him Wayne HickTonkey, spied them on me as was very impressed with the tip shape.

    Last time I talked with Splat I think he was considering offering two rocker options.

    Splat: Sorry if I'm blowing it here, you didn't seem to be trying to keep these too much a secret.

    Everyone: Don't get your panties all in a bundle. Maybe Splat figured out the exaggerated rocker version didn't work as well as the original and won't be offering them at all. We'll have to see what he says.

    Edit: AFAIK, all other dims on the version I tried were the same as the original.
    ROBOTS ARE EATING MY FACE.

  8. #58
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    I have been skiing some Brockers with Dukes for the last couple of months and would agree with Vets and Pechelman. I'm 6' 185. They are very easy to turn in almost any snow if you stay over them and in softer snow there is a strong sense of control and stability, despite their shorter feel. It only gets better in deeper and/or more difficult snow. I think they are great and have skied them a lot, both in the resorts and out.

    Samurai- I have used mine (with the dukes) a lot for short skins and boot packs and really like having the performance. I have to admit though, that the last couple of weeks I have been doing more longer approaches, due to the great conditions around here, and have been mostly using some old 188 soft bros with FR's. The latter setup is lighter and skins easier, but the Brocker/Dukes are acceptable, especially for short ventures. The Brockers are definitely more fun to ski though.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossass View Post
    Splat let me borrow a version of the Brocker with exaggerated rocker compared to the normal version. Unfortunately, I didn't really get much time on them before I gave them back, and I never skied the normal version, so I can't really compare. They seemed to be the shit though, and a certain pro skier who knows a thing or two about rockered skis, lets call him Wayne HickTonkey, spied them on me as was very impressed with the tip shape.

    Last time I talked with Splat I think he was considering offering two rocker options.

    Splat: Sorry if I'm blowing it here, you didn't seem to be trying to keep these too much a secret.

    Everyone: Don't get your panties all in a bundle. Maybe Splat figured out the exaggerated rocker version didn't work as well as the original and won't be offering them at all. We'll have to see what he says.

    Edit: AFAIK, all other dims on the version I tried were the same as the original.
    I still need to test the exaggerated tip rocker version (that'll be a while), but all the feedback is that it works just fine. I almost mounted that pair you had, bossass, to ski this last weekend (oh, am I kicking myself in the ass for not doing so - but I can't reach my ass with my foot). The feedback we got from the pros on it is that it's awesome in the deep. I just wanted to get it out in hardpack and see it rails like the regular Brocker.

    As soon as I figure out what md9 will do for the new topsheet, we'll put the Brockers up on the website. Until then, we're taking preorders for brown 192, green 188, and the old blue tops.

  10. #60
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    hey splat? another 4th of july testing party?
    Quote Originally Posted by twodogs View Post
    Hey Phill, why don't you post your tax returns, here on TGR, asshole. And your birth certificate.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phill View Post
    hey splat? another 4th of july testing party?
    Seriously?
    ROBOTS ARE EATING MY FACE.

  12. #62
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    Today I found another snow condition where the Brockers excelled, suncups.
    The wide rocker tip works great!
    Here is a link to a TR.

  13. #63
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    Splat,

    Do you have any thoughts yet on the 196 timeframe? Are we going to be available to order this badboy for the upcoming season?

  14. #64
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    I just ordered some base for a batch of 196 protos, got md9 thinking about a dedicated top design that will go on both sizes and hope to have the first batch tested, perfected and available by Christmas. My injury set back my timeline by 5-6 weeks, but if all goes well, we could shorten that projection.

  15. #65
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    How much more will the 196s weigh over the 186s?
    Quote Originally Posted by wintermittent
    And furthermore. What is up with turkey bacon? Healthy bacon? Unpossible.
    Quote Originally Posted by snowsprite
    That is like masturbation. People resort to it when they can't have the real thing!

  16. #66
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    thats probably not easy to answer since not only are they still in the proto phase, where they use different amounts of everything, but I dont think theyve build any 196's yet

    i believe...?
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  17. #67
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    Not much more, since the diims will be the same, so it's 10 cm more. We could do the math based on a 5 lb carbon 186, Stroup. Or ask pechelman to bust out the weird science.

    Got a guy up in the Cascades determining the tele pin line on the 186s right now. He sent me some telebrocker pics. They'll show up in the photo gallery on the PMG website soon. I'll post some here when I finally get home. He said they're killing it and couldn't believe the carve.

    edit:

    the first shots of Brockers gone tele:





  18. #68
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    Bump for another maggot developed ski. Welcome to production.
    Goals for the season: -Try and pick up a sponsor.--Phill

    But whatever scares you most... --Rip'nStick

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    I just ordered some base for a batch of 196 protos, got md9 thinking about a dedicated top design that will go on both sizes and hope to have the first batch tested, perfected and available by Christmas. My injury set back my timeline by 5-6 weeks, but if all goes well, we could shorten that projection.
    Sheeeat. We are right in line with the projections for the 196 development I made in June. Ahead of schedule. Skis will ship daily until we have everyone taken care of. 192s, half the 186s, all the 188s are pressed and the 179s are in the works now, followed by more 186s and 196s.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Sheeeat. We are right in line with the projections for the 196 development I made in June. Ahead of schedule. Skis will ship daily until we have everyone taken care of. 192s, half the 186s, all the 188s are pressed and the 179s are in the works now, followed by more 186s and 196s.
    Thanks, you have reinforced my belief that the world will end soon. Either that or you're getting way too good at this "Ski Company Manager" thing.

  21. #71
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    On my way back home from Winnemucca last weekend I stopped by the PM Gear Factory in Reno. I got a chance to fondle many pairs of 186 Lhasa Pows as well as the 196s and many other skis. The production is very impressive. I had to go out to my car and get a big towel to wipe off the drool. I'm still madly in love and feel like a groom waiting for the night of the honeymoon when I'll be getting my ya-yas out this winter. Anticipating O-faces, face shots, and many blissful grins.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Sheeeat. We are right in line with the projections for the 196 development I made in June. Ahead of schedule. Skis will ship daily until we have everyone taken care of. 192s, half the 186s, all the 188s are pressed and the 179s are in the works now, followed by more 186s and 196s.


    you could say that i would be your man-bitch for all of eternity if my carbon lhasas happened to make it to maine in time for this weekends opening . . . but that would be a drastic understatement. I'm hoping to be able to completely out-gun everyone in the northeast with your stupid sick skis the very first day..

  23. #73
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    Damn, I'm sorry to disappoint you, sloafer, but I think we're pressing yours next week. We took a chunk out of the preorders and such over the last couple of weeks, but had to knock out the 188s and 179s. I don't think we can do next weekend. Hopefully, you'll have rocked your other skis to death (literally) and get your new boards just in time for the deep.

  24. #74
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    wow, how did I not see that post until now, I thought i had been searching all the Lhasa threads thouroughly (sp?). Well, sorry I saw this only after I sent you that email Pat.

    Anyways, I can assure you that I most certainly will beat the rest of my quiver into submission in preparation for the arrival of the 186s, hopefully that 'deep' you mentioned will hurry the fuck up. . .

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