Thread: Sleeping Bag ?s/Help

So,

Yes I am a jong at lightweight camping/hiking. I grew using Coleman sleeping bags that you would never want to pack in any distance.

My question is, why are good sleeping bags that compress tightly so damn expensive?

Do people really spend $300 on a sleeping bag?

What are some brands that I should look at and is it better to go with down or synthetic? I want something that packs small and light. Also, what rating do I need? I don't get cold really easy and this will mainly be used for spring/summer/fall camping, but it can get below 20 in the spring and fall in Colorado high country. Do you get cold in a 25F rated sleeping bag (assuming it is a good bag) when it is 20? Can't you just put on a insulating base layer?

I am sure these sound like stupid questions, but if I am going to spend $200 bucks on a sleeping bag, I don't want to be cold and have to go buy another one!

Thanks

I have a marmot helium eq (15 degree bag), which retails for 430$. Minus a 20% off coupon I think I spent close to 350$ on it, so yes people spend that kind of money on bags. I know people who have more expensive bags than that, but more for expeditions where it gets really cold. The marmot has been really nice. It's incredibly light and packs down really small. It's also very cozy and just feels like a very nicely built piece of gear. It's always been plenty warm enough anywhere I've taken it.

For a general Colorado bag, you could get away with down, but you will need to be cautious about getting it wet during the wet season, though. Not a big deal, but make sure it doesn't get wet, because it won't keep you warm then. There are some decent synthetic bags out there for much reasonable prices, so don't hesitate going that route if you want to save a little money. In the end, I've had a few bags, and I just wanted as light and packable as it comes, so I bought the Marmot. That's also why I have a BD Firstlight tent, Dynafit ZZero boots, and k2 sahale skis. I've just progressed to lighter gear over the years.

In looking for an all around Colorado bag, I would probably go with a lighter 20degree bag. You can leave it unzipped when it's warm, and it will keep you warm on most cold Colorado nights, especially as a 3-season bag. When it gets a little colder, just make sure you have a decent sleeping pad and throw on a few layers. I camped out in January up by Holy Cross and threw on my parka along with my bag and I was OK. It wasn't comfortable by any means, but it wasn't aweful either.

There are many options, but brands I would look at are North Face, Marmot, Mountain Hardware, Big Agnes, Western Mountaineering. Synthetic bags can get over 3lbs, and down bags can get down to close to 2lbs in the 15-25 degree range. Some down bags can come with a waterproof-coated shell, which can help somewhat with moisture issues.

The bird flu epidemic really hit the geese hard and the cost of down has gone through the roof.

My marmot -20 down with the gore dry loft is the bomb. I value my sleep and comfort greatly so I always overshoot the temp rating. The money is worth it in most cases.

For CO I use down but have considered the synth for my next bag just for safety. I have slept in a soaking wet synthetic and still been warm in 32 degree temps. It was amazing.

I've got both a 0 degree and a 32 degree down bag for CO use. The 0 degree is only for winter use, however, in a winter tent with one or two other bodies it is way too warm. I pretty much use the 32 degree bag for everything. On cold nights, I will layer up with extra clothes and have done just fine. That said I might go with a 15 or 20 down (lighter, more compact) and just deal with it on warm summer nights. After several years, I haven't had any issues with the bag getting wet, though I do carry a pack cover or trash bag just in case.

Originally Posted by gretch6364

What are some brands that I should look at and is it better to go with down or synthetic? I want something that packs small and light.


I am sure these sound like stupid questions, but if I am going to spend $200 bucks on a sleeping bag, I don't want to be cold and have to go buy another one!

Thanks

It really depends.

I imagine that colorado is relatively dry place (no suprise rain showers in middle of jan, low air moisture?) and you will be sleeping in huts/tents?
Then you could get by with a downbag.
They are expensive,especially those that have been made of high loft down. But they pack really well (high loft down is really light and bonds air well,thus it packs tighter), are really light,good to sleep in and with good care they can last for 10-15 years.

But if you sleep longer periods in tents or sleep in snowcaves, bivibags or in pacific snow climates then the syntetic is the way to go. As the guys said,down gets moist/wet relativey quickly and its insulation properties get poor. Synthetics retain their properties even when half soaked.


Ajungilak/Mammut or Haglöfs has really good bags,really top notch but with the weak dollar i could guess that they are really expensive there?
Mountain Hardwear used to do quite good bags also.

In sleeping bags the fit is really important too. Get a bag that fits your bodytype well. Check out that it doesnt strangle you in the neck area and that the foot part is quite snug (unless you plan to dry a lot of stuff in the bag all the time) so you dont get cold pockets.


A good sleeping bag is the investment. There is no point of getting a 100$ bag in wich you sleep poorly and after wich have bad days of skiing when you get can get 300$ bag in wich you sleep well for years to come..


My .02€ ...

Re the down vs synthetic- down as you are probably finding is much more expensive. It can many times from what I have read in my research can be easier to restore the loft (all bags over time loose loft and therefore warmth) - washing it properly, storing it uncompressed and all help most sleeping bags last longer. However washing it too often can reduce the waterproofing (really water resistance of the bag).

Synthetic as others have stated can be safer if wet as it can maintain the effectiveness in keeping you warm, down does not do this well.

Weight is another factor- sub 3 pound bags that are 0 degree or lower are pricey compared to a 4 or 5 pound bag of the same rating. 3 season bags (15 degree to 30 degree ratings) can be had in synthetic for under $100 (Steep and Cheap has had some Alps bags from time to time). Moderately priced synthetic bags (Marmot, Alps, Mountainsmith, and a few others) can be had for much less than the $150 or $200 price range - especially on sale or close out.

You also have to look at whether you sleep warmer than others, or colder. Many will find they are too warm in a 0 degree bag on a typical spring or fall evening and unzip it. Others find that a 20 degree bag is not enough for below freezing and have to try things like a bag liner, bivy, or base layers or even wearing a jacket or added clothes to sleep in. Also remember a hat or something to keep your head covered and warm helps too.

Are you going to be hut camping or tent can also be a factor. I've slept in a cheap 40 degree synthetic bag in a hut in late fall- below freezing (not in Colorado mountains though) and with the fire going it was OK as long as the fire was feed and providing heat, and I was sleeping with a layer of long underwear. I would not have wanted to be using that bag for a tent without the fire going. Some also like a looser fitting sleeping bag if they are an active sleeper. The narrower and tighter fitting bags tend to be warmer, but some do not like feeling so restricted.

Also remember a good quality sleeping pad (Thermarest types) can be another important part of the equation whether tent or hut sleeping.

Do a search also here as there are a number of sleeping bag threads discussing specific brands and mags recommendations and experiences.

It depends on how warm you sleep and how often your going to bed wet.

I had some random -15 cabelas bag that was fine down to about 20 degrees it cost about 90 bucks. It was heavy and didn't pack tight.

I saved some money up and purchased the western mountainering bison. The bag was expensive for sure but what would suck more is being damn cold in the middle of the night in the whites or dacks.

As others have said look at it as a long term investment, I know guys far older than myself that have had their bags 20+ years. 800 bucks isn't bad spread over 20 years.

Down vs synthetic is tough, I went with Down as I generally stay out of the rain. Additionally lean-tos are plentiful in the Dacks and Whites and are mostly waterproof. However it can get very very cold, I spent one night in Crag Camp at 20 below in the Cabela's bag and decided I was getting a new one as soon as possible.

Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to look at a 30 degree bag for this purpose. I am a warm sleeper, especially if I have a hat on. I will look at getting another bag if I did any winter camping. This will all be in a tent. I am not sure about the whole sleeping in just the bag out in the woods thing. Have any of you done this? I am planning on getting a sleep pad.

I think I will go with down do to packing. I was looking at the Marmot never winter bag, It is pretty reasonable at $179 and it compresses to the size of a grape fruit.

Thanks for the help. The one thing I am wondering about is I am a "side sleeper" not a back sleeper....does this mean I will need a roomier bag? I am one of those people that does not move around a lot at night and I always do the:

lift your feet, roll left, roll right, so all the covers are wrapped tightly around me. So I don't think roominess should be a problem.

Anyone have any experience with this bag? I have read some good reviews on it.

I sleep on my side too. I have never found a good solution, but it has also never been a big problem either. If it's cold enough I have the hood on, I kind of just twist the bag so my head lines up right.

For temp ratings, my experience has been that if I'm at the end of what the bag is rated for and wearing nothing extra, I will be chilly. But usually not too cold to get sleep. Another thing to think about is what clothing you have. If you're toting around a down jacket or some other puffy, might as well put that in the bag with you. If it's sitting outside that's just excess weight. Setting a jacket over your torso will warm you up a lot and you can get away with a thinner bag.

I don't know about that Marmot bag, I assume it's good. One thing to note, it uses 600 fill down, which will make it heavier than a more expensive 800 fill bag. How much is it worth to you to shave off 8 or 10 ounces? I have a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 32 which I think is awesome. Weighs a pound and a half. The extra money was worth it to me.

Look on STP for deeply discounted bags. I got my Marmot there. I tend to like a lower temp rating on a bag so I am covered if it turns cold, which is real easy to do at 11,000+ feet where I prefer to camp. If it is warm, i use my bag as a comforter, which is way more comfortable then being inside it. I prefer down for lightness and compressibility, but it is more spendy.

Well I ended up going with the Marmot Arroyo. It was about $250, has 800 fill goose down and weighs about 27 oz. I could of spent another $50 for a 850 bag, but it would of only saved me 2 oz. I think it should be a good bag.

So from what I have read, I should keep the outside of the stuff sack when I am storing...does sound right? It is suppose to make it last longer.

Thanks

Originally Posted by gretch6364

So from what I have read, I should keep the outside of the stuff sack when I am storing...does sound right? It is suppose to make it last longer.

Thanks

Yep. Keep it flat on a floor in a dry space if possible. If you have it hanging,the fill can pack on the low parts easily,even if it sewn capsule style. Forgetting it compressed is not a disaster if you do it once or twice,but forget a packed,moist bag for couple of weeks and you have a suprise waiting next time you open it..

It is good once in a while do a small puff-up to the bag,maybe after a night when you leave it dry on some rocks or top of your tent. You get a lot of extra miles on your bag if you tend it carefully. And oh,only was it in a place that knows their stuff. Most of the downbags are ruined by unproper washing/tumbling..

Sweet dreams.

I really like my REI Mojave. It retails at about $160 and I used one of those 20% off coupons, making it much more affordable. It keeps me warm and dry all 3 camping seasons in CO as it's rated to 10 degrees. Down is super light!

Originally Posted by gretch6364

So from what I have read, I should keep the outside of the stuff sack when I am storing...does sound right? It is suppose to make it last longer.

Thanks

That is about as bad of a sentence as a person whose native language is claimed to be English could write...wow

Just use the large bag to store your sleeping bag. Air it well after every trip before putting it away, and if it gets wet during a trip dry it in the sun as soon as possible. When possible use a liner to keep the bag cleaner. The less you wash it, the longer it will last.

Down costs more because it is lighter weight for the same amount of insulation than synthetic, and because it lasts longer (doesn't pack down as quickly).

The whole "but synthetic insulates when wet" thing is really overblown. Go soak your poly fleece jacket with water, go outside in freezing weather, and tell me how warm you get. Technically it's still insulating you, right? Ha! You need to not get your bag wet in the first place. Use a waterproof stuff sack, dry it out well when you get up in the morning (put it out in the sun), and if you're camping in the cold, use a vapor barrier liner so your perspiration doesn't condense inside the bag and soak it down from the inside.

There is a number called "fill power" which basically tells you how light the down is. Cheaper bags use ~600-650 fill down. More expensive bags use 800 fill or above, which makes them lighter weight.

Biggest point: TEMPERATURE RATINGS ARE WORTHLESS. There is no standard, and anyone can claim any rating for any bag. What affects the actual warmth is loft -- how much air is trapped -- and how tight the bag fits. The taller and puffier a bag is, the warmer it is, and the closer it fits, the warmer it is.

For instance, Western Mountaineering (an excellent brand) strongly underrates their bags relative to everyone else. My "20 degree" WM bag is thicker and warmer than any "0 degree" bag I've seen from any other manufacturer.

Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends both make excellent sleeping bags, and I recommend either if you've got the scratch.