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  1. #26
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    Originally posted by slim
    Go see Fog Of War or any other Errol Morris film to see what a real political documentary is.
    my god, "Vernon, FL" has to be one of the best things i've ever watched.
    fine

  2. #27
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    Originally posted by tuffy109
    my god, "Vernon, FL" has to be one of the best things i've ever watched.
    Are you two gonna, like, start making out now?

  3. #28
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    Originally posted by jayfrizzo
    Are you two gonna, like, start making out now?
    are you going to want photos?

  4. #29
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    Originally posted by slim
    are you going to want photos?
    Well, duh!

  5. #30
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    don't get all jealous now pooks. i mean, you've got phunk, right?
    fine

  6. #31
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    Originally posted by Schmear
    Yes it won the Palm d'Or at Cannes.
    The first documentary in 50 years, too.

  7. #32
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    hey noodles you speak french right?? Do they not understand what a documentary is?

    doc·u·men·ta·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
    adj.
    Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
    Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

    even Michael Moore admits to editorializing his movies. I wonder if Hasselhoff, Jerry Lewis, and Michael Moore meet up every year to toast the fact that they've fleeced the Euro's for millions. You people flock to their shit like white trash to Graceland.
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

  8. #33
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    You forgot the rest:

    n. pl. doc·u·men·ta·ries
    A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

    That wasn't on purpose, was it?

    I don't see editorial spin as a disqulaifier there.

  9. #34
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    Originally posted by mr_gyptian

    ...Presenting facts objectively without editorializing...
    Umm yeah..... that definition may be dictionary, but it is also bullshit.

    The act of having a camera in place is an editorial comment. The act of doing anything other than presenting uncut footage taken by an invisible robot is editorializing. Documentaries are not perspective free, the film maker has a story he is trying to tell.

    In fact, I could make some sort of post-modern argument that Moore's shit is more fair than most other documentaries because you know his position, and you know that his films are showing you things as he sees them. His voice, tone, and physical appearance in his films reminds the viewer that this is not some objective, view-from-nowhere, god-like perspective documentary, but rather 'the world according to Michael Moore'.

    ...but of course, I have no desire to make such an argument.

    The closest thing I've seen to a documentary without editorializing was Warhols film of umpteen uncut hours of some shmoe sleeping.
    My dog did not bite your dog, your dog bit first, and I don't have a dog.

  10. #35
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    Originally posted by optics
    You forgot the rest:

    n. pl. doc·u·men·ta·ries
    A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

    That wasn't on purpose, was it?

    I don't see editorial spin as a disqulaifier there.
    I left it out because I thought the whole factual thing where Moore is concerned is well...moot.
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

  11. #36
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    Originally posted by mr_gyptian
    I left it out because I thought the whole factual thing where Moore is concerned is well...moot.
    Oh.

    Originally posted by mr_gyptian doc·u·men·ta·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
    adj.
    Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
    Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

  12. #37
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    dear lord optics, true to your handle you can see and read. Lest, you cannot comprehend. I was saying that Moore's films were not documentaries. Thus, by the definition I quoted from Webster's, Farenheit 911 is not a documentary. Rendering an award for best documentary, at best incorrect.

    clear enough??
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

  13. #38
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    Originally posted by tuffy109
    my god, "Vernon, FL" has to be one of the best things i've ever watched.
    better than "gates of heaven"?


    vernon is amazing too. double gobble = priceless moment

  14. #39
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    Originally posted by mr_gyptian
    I was saying that Moore's films were not documentaries. Thus, by the definition I quoted from Webster's, Farenheit 911 is not a documentary.
    Right. Understood.

    Your initial argument went after the editorial point. The second definition makes that point, well...moot.

    Attacking the merit of a film winning an award in a non-english speaking country based on an english definition of a word widely used to describe the genre is a bit weak, don't you think?

    Doesn't our use of a word define its meaning, not vice-versa?

  15. #40
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    Originally posted by tuffy109
    don't get all jealous now pooks. i mean, you've got phunk, right?
    Until you get those PMGear skis. Then it's fucking on.

  16. #41
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    Originally posted by mr_gyptian
    Farenheit 911 is not a documentary. Rendering an award for best documentary, at best incorrect.
    Point of order ol' bean...

    It won the Palme D'Or, that's simply the top prize for any film. There is no documentary category at Cannes. It is the first film considered a documentary (and you can argue over that) to win the Palme D'Or since Jacques Cousteau's "The Silent World" in 1956. (It might also have been the first film-considered-a-documentary to even be entered in the contest since the 50s.)

    Now, when dealing with his Oscar win for best documentary you can make your argument.

    So have it then....
    My dog did not bite your dog, your dog bit first, and I don't have a dog.

  17. #42
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    Originally posted by optics
    Right. Understood.

    Your initial argument went after the editorial point. The second definition makes that point, well...moot.

    Attacking the merit of a film winning an award in a non-english speaking country based on an english definition of a word widely used to describe the genre is a bit weak, don't you think?

    Doesn't our use of a word define its meaning, not vice-versa?
    no, that is what definitions are for. using the word do instead of due is incorrect. the french seem to understand "surrender" in just about every language what is so complex about "documentary"?
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

  18. #43
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    The rare double-straw man!

    You're so much better than that.

    Right?

  19. #44
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    Originally posted by Will
    Umm yeah..... that definition may be dictionary, but it is also bullshit.

    The act of having a camera in place is an editorial comment. The act of doing anything other than presenting uncut footage taken by an invisible robot is editorializing. Documentaries are not perspective free, the film maker has a story he is trying to tell.
    I agree.

    History that is in history books is the history of the winner. I mean, look at most WWII documentaries, there's none that show the Nazis in a sympathetic light.

    Moore's documentaries are definitely infused with his point of view, and those who think they're objective simply side with him unquestionably.

    What I heard about 9/11F is that the first half is vintage Moore, doing what Moore does, which I would probably be a little annoyed at. Not to say he doesn't have valid and interesting things to say, but sometimes he makes claims that aren't entirely fair or substantiated.

  20. #45
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    Something tells me Michael Moore isn't looking at the dictionary and saying "Fuck. And I thought I was making a documentary." He makes the movies he wants with absolutely no concern for whether they are objective. He does a damn good job with it, too.

  21. #46
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    "There is a hell of a huge difference between skiing as a sport- or even as a lifestyle- and skiing as an industry"
    Hunter S. Thompson, 1970 (RIP)

  22. #47
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    The trumpet scatters its awful sound Over the graves of all lands Summoning all before the throne

    Death and mankind shall be stunned When Nature arises To give account before the Judge

  23. #48
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    Originally posted by Greydon Clark
    http://www.blackstarsblog.com/bushin41point2.swf
    Exhibit 4,032 why Bush/Cheney's second term is an afterthought.

    I can't wait until these people show up for the Republican convention in NYC.
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

  24. #49
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    new link for the trailer that works


  25. #50
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    This is from the MPLS Star Tribune. It's things like this that make MM such an easy mark.




    WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Rep. Mark Kennedy has unhappy memories of his filmed encounter with leftist moviemaker Michael Moore, an encounter featured Thursday in a trailer for the upcoming U.S. release of the film "Fahrenheit 9/11."

    "I was walking back to my office after casting a vote, and all of a sudden some oversized guy puts a mike in my face and a camera in my face," said the Minnesota Republican. "He starts asking if I can help him recruit more people from families of members of Congress to participate in the war on terror."

    Kennedy said he told Moore that he has two nephews in the military, one who has just been deployed in the Army National Guard.

    But to Kennedy's annoyance, his response to Moore was cut from the trailer (and from the film, according to a spokeswoman for the movie).

    "The interesting thing is that they used my image, but not my words," Kennedy said. "It's representative of the fact that Michael Moore doesn't always give the whole story, and he's a master of the misleading."

    A spokeswoman for the film, which has found a U.S. distributor after the Walt Disney Co. refused to release it, said she had no comment.

    A transcript released by the film's producers shows Moore telling Kennedy that "there is only one member [of Congress] who has a kid over there in Iraq." He asks Kennedy to help him pass out literature encouraging others "to get their kids to enlist in the Army and go over to Iraq."

    Kennedy replies, "I'd be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war. [As Kennedy did.] I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan."

    To which Moore replies: "I appreciate it."
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

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