Thread: am I smoking crack?

another noob kayaker here... read through all the other noob posts on here from the last year or so, but I figure I'm in a slightly different position.

I live on a lake, there is a dam outflow 50 meters from my house, nothing huge, but apparently you can play in it. The Cayoosh river is a 10min drive, and the Bridge River is 30mins, both supposedly decent river runs. Pemberton is just over an hour away and squamish about two and half hours. Of course the Fraser River is right in town.

There is no scene here, nobody else paddles, although one other guy has expressed interest in kayaking. I've never ww kayaked, just sea kayaking and canoeing, but have always been a strong swimmer. Jealous of all the kayak bums that roll through here every summer.

Is it possible to teach yourself rolling, etc on your own.... i.e. on the lake in front of my house after work?

From reading threads here the Jackson fun seems like a good one to start on? I'm 5'8" 150lbs and do most things aggresively.

am I smoking crack or should I be closer to some other people that are into it?

(edit to add I'm not planning on doing creeks solo or anything)

chris - i can teach you to roll but we need to talk about white water a bit. I have some books for you

Originally Posted by Cheesestoff

Is it possible to teach yourself rolling, etc on your own.... i.e. on the lake in front of my house after work?

am I smoking crack or should I be closer to some other people that are into it?

No, and it'd probably help, a lot. The other people, that is.

If you have a dock that's water height, or any number of things that are inflatable and float, you can teach yourself to roll. I highly recommend buying a video from one of the well-established kayak guys (Maybe Eric Jackson has a vid on rolling?), watching it, and going forth.

Don't buy a new boat yet. Some people just can't roll to save their lives, and can't be taught how to do so. Some people are scared of being locked into a boat, scared of being underwater, etc. Buy a cheap boat off a kayak website first. You're gonna blow some coin on all the shit you need anyways to go along with your boat.

thanks Lee, do you still have all your gear?

Bakerboy

there is a dock here, a bit above water height though. Would definetly buy books, dvds if its possible to do this.

found what looks to be a decent site for used boats in BC http://www.kayaknews.ca/cgi-bin/yak/...Canada&prov=BC

I don't have gear but i can borrow some next time i come up and you can try it out. You can borrow a wetsuit unless you have one.

its possible to learn how to roll yourself but difficult. Easier in a pool where the water's clear and there's a ledge to grab on. If you know how to brace its a bit easier. I've got some old wwkayak guidebooks you can have

Whitewater kayaking is a group sport. You need other people for safety and for shuttles. You might as well find a group now. Also, it's helpful when you're learning to roll to have other people around who can help you back up when you're unsuccessful. That way, you don't have to empty the boat out every time you screw up.

Watching some DVDs can be helpful. I like EJ's Bracing and Rolling DVD. A lot of people like Ken Whiting's DVD.

I started kayaking last June and bought a Jackson Fun without ever boating in my life (I'm 5'11", 175 lbs). Very easy to roll and the consensus pick for best river runner/playboat beginner boat. Maybe you can score one used. I never took a class and taught myself to roll by watching videos on youtube. The first few times I had a friend with me but the day I actually started to nail my roll on a consistent basis I was solo on a lake. I now have a solid sweep roll (at least on one side) and feel very comfortable up to Class III+. It's really not that difficult of a sport to learn but like anything, it takes practice on a weekly basis. While getting up to class III is not hard, taking the next step to class IV and V will be much, much, more of a bear.

OK now. For starters, Yes you could potentially teach yourself how to roll. There's an old story from American Whitewater about Ed Lucero rolling after a 10 second verbal description. It would be hard to teach yourself though and the odds are pretty good that you would either never succeed or end up with really bad technique. Find somebody who's taught a bunch of people before. Just because someone knows how to roll doesn't mean they can teach well. If you aren't a total fatass, you will do well to learn the C-to-C roll. Its the basic eskimo roll broken down into its most basic parts. It's the closest thing kayak instruction has ever come to ski instruction. It teaches you the value of the Hip Snap. Without a hip snap, you're just a hack who relies too much on his paddle. By the end of it, you should be able to fairly consistently hands roll in the lake with a good hip snap. This disconnection of lower and upper body is as essential in Kayaking as it is in skiing. Look for a copy of the video "Grace Under Pressure" it will give you good visuals of the whole process, with quite a bit of cheese thrown in.
Second, Yes you could kayak alone. Many people do and few of them die. It's roughly equivalent to back country skiing alone. Noone can stop you from getting into trouble, but they might be able to dig you out. However, you'll probably get a lot better a lot faster if you have some paddling buds. Just try to find the agro ones and not the ones with more safety gear and auto accessories than talent.
Third, try to find an old Dagger RPM. This is, was and forever will be the ultimate learning boat that you can keep having fun in. Stay away from flat bottomed boats until you've figured out how to roll. A round bottom boat will always roll more easily. Period. This is a big reason why creek boats work better than play boats for beginners.
Lastly, once you're into the game, stop thinking about practicing and start thrashing yourself. Get-On-The-River. More time in whitewater = you getting better. More aggressive approach = you getting better. Getting thoroughly hammered = you getting better, as long as it doesn't turn you chicken.
Lastly Lastly, you're gonna need about a grand US. Paddle, sprayskirt, PFD, etc. The boat's the only thing that's easy to borrow.

These are some good responsible suggestions.

But you're Canadian.

There is almost no way to get yourself in trouble in a lake next to shore. Go for it. You'll figure a roll out, it's like a tele turn, except you can't bail and switch into a parallel turn if needed. You can learn a lot of the correct strokes on a lake too, look for EJ's 2 books for great tutorials.

Once you're comfy rolling, etc, look for an old squirt boat. They can be a shitload of fun on flat water...

have fun!

Step 1: have a very confident wet exit.

Step 2: get in the lake on a flat day and get comfortable in your boat. Learn how it handles upright, and what your paddle can do for your balance and bracing.

Step 3: learn to roll! Watch videos, read books, and talk to people... but don't hesitate to try it once you have a reliable wet exit. The suggestion of doing it next to a dock, initially holding the dock edge instead of a paddle, can help you learn the hip flick, but don't let it get you in the bad habit of lifting your chest too high too soon. Having a friend wade out to chest-deep water and hold your paddle flat on the water surface works well too, but don't slash them with your blade tip.

Learn about the different roll styles/techniques. Some will be more natural to you than others. Try them all, and find the ones you like best. The more tools the merrier.

Practice, practice, practice until you get it. Once you have it down, practice, practice, practice some more. Never stop practicing.

I'd take Lee up on his offer.

1 - Yes, definitely. (but having someone to work with you and help you with the motions would be a plus).

2 - The Fun is a good boat, but there are better beginner boats out there if you're interested in them.

3 - I'm sure someone can be talked into it, especially when they see how much fun you're having. If not, paddling solo isn't the worst thing in the world. No one to rescue you, but no one to rescue either. I can't say that I recommend it, but solo kayaking difficult runs that I know well has been a staple in my life... Good luck.

If you want to learn all about kayaking, visit Heehawjones.com. He will tell you all you need to know about getting to be pro at kayaking.

thanks for the advice guys.. gonna see how into it the other guy is before I step up.

Yeah its possible to teach yerself to roll ,I taught an former xc team canada ski racer to roll in the pool and he got his roll on the 1st try due to being a great athelete ... not my teaching .

Not sure how he started but I got a buddy in kelowna who did the practise rolling in the lake in front of his moms house till it was 2nd nature and he has only swam once since about 85

A good book is "the bomb proof roll" by dutski or dutki ,should be available from MEC for about 20$ ,good reading with diagrams that break down the roll and other things about the dynamics of paddling .there are probably good DVD's available nowdays

its more than just a roll ,its learning the dynamics of moving water

there are paddlers in kamloops/kelowna who paddle the clearwater & thompson , so you don't necaessarily need to have paddlers where you live ... you just gotta want to paddle ,learn the basics and you can hook by phone/internet

its helps if you are not normal ...most ww paddlers are not very normal

it might be good to try and hook up with a 1 weekend beginner course if such a thing exists OR ideally take a vacation & do a week somewhere at one of those kayak schools

I don't like to WW paddle alone ... I want at least one other person AND newbies are gona swim so you need people to chase you & yer gear so you can buy them beer,the molson rule applies

However you learn to roll, I suggest one thing. Learn to roll both ways right from the start.
Instead of having a strong and weak side, or on and off side, make yourself learn to have two strong sides right from the start and you will be better off in the long run.

Lots of good advice so far... I'll just add that the Bridge River and nearby Thompson are definitely worth learning to paddle for. There may be no paddlers in Lilloett, but lots come through your area. The Thompson and Whistler are not far away, so I don't think that you'll have problems finding partners once you get a few skills and river knowledge.

Get a boat and go for it... just get some help with the moving water bit.

Originally Posted by carvedog

...I suggest one thing. Learn to go both ways right from the start.

Can you really "learn" to go both ways? Isn't that something people are born with? Most of us just naturally go one way or another. Of course there's always the folks that experiment in college, but for most it's just a natural predisposition to that one way. It just feels right.
Like skiing powder vs icy moguls. You're not sure why some people stay out of the pow, but you're just happy knowing you love every minute of the light and fluffy with nary a curiosity about those icy bumps.

Originally Posted by jm2e

Can you really "learn" to go both ways? Isn't that something people are born with? Most of us just naturally go one way or another. Of course there's always the folks that experiment in college, but for most it's just a natural predisposition to that one way. It just feels right.
Like skiing powder vs icy moguls. You're not sure why some people stay out of the pow, but you're just happy knowing you love every minute of the light and fluffy with nary a curiosity about those icy bumps.

I didn't do no experimenting in college. What the fuck are you talking about.
Did you just ride your little head down into your dicksucking days or is there something else you had in mind?

This a kayak thread for Gods sake. Oh wait I forgot where I am.

learning an offside roll is good ,I never got mine till 45 degree paddles became popular and by that time I was hard wired for an onside roll , while I can do an off side roll , in combat I go to what is instinct.Rolling on one side ony can also create muscle imbalances if you do it long enough .STILL its not just getting a roll its learning safety/strokes/how to move a boat/how to control a boat in moving water .

some possibly good sites for you

http://paddleguides.com/rivers/bc/

http://whitewater.org/



A feminist friend of mine sez women will consiously chose women over men whereas men are just hardwired when it comes to orientation