Thread: WTF is wrong with these dog owners?

[rant] I keep my dog on leash until we are in BFE, not 100 yards from a trail head, and never allow him to get in front of me, ever, even off leash. As soon as other dogs or people are ahead of us on the trail he's clipped back on leash. I also use a training collar just in case I lose control of him off leash.

Today, for the third time in a week, I've had to physically assault and wrangle another dog that's been left off leash on trail that's attacked my puppy (Well, he's 6 months and 80 lbs of puppy). Owners say he's friendly, dog approaches, sniff sniff and then they attack Tonka. Until today I kept him under control on leash, but I snapped. Instead of grabbing the attacking dog, which is what I had been doing, I just let Tonka off leash and focused on confronting the moronic dog owner. He was just fine on his own. Amazing how quick the aggressor turns tail when faced with losing. I can't wait until he's a full 160 lbs., maybe then these fucking morons will control their dogs.

[/end rant]

This is on a mixed use trail that's blocks from our house, it's got amazing MTB potential but these dogs are bound to get creamed by a biker moving downhill. I'm all for having space for dogs to get off leash, but if you can't control your dog it's not an option for you, and if your dog is a prick, don't be lazy and lie about it. Get it under control before I let my dog eat it.

I like your new method better also.

the Boise foothills are facing these issues now, too many morons who are letting their dogs run loose chasing bikers...

but if you can't control your dog it's not an option for you

totally agree with this statement, if you can't control your dog by either voice or signals then it should remain on a leash.

I would carry pepper spray / bear spray or something like that.

Originally Posted by mtnjam

the Boise foothills are facing these issues now, too many morons who are letting their dogs run loose chasing bikers...

There's a bill being proposed this week or next that aims to make the lowest leashless trail here Hard Guy. I have really mixed feelings on that. But, the lower trails are so fucking crowded with beaters or "core" guys maching because they just warmed up their credit cards at the LBS, you almost have to go higher for good riding anyway.

Originally Posted by tromano

I would carry pepper spray / bear spray or something like that.

A couple more months and Tonka will be a bear. I'd be afraid of spraying my own dog. Ya ever know what the reaction is going to be until they are right on top of each other. There are plenty of happy go lucky dogs out there that cause no trouble.

Dogs, for the most part, are more socially inclined than humans. Most socially inept dogs are accompanied by equally socially inept people who have never made an effort to work on dog socialization at "bark parks", kennels, or other situations. You can see them from a mile away, agressively yanking their dog back on it's leash, freaking out 100yards away, then picking their dumb ass bitch dog up in their arms. All the while, the dog yapping and carrying on.

I find dogs do their best socially when off leash. Leashed dogs, when meeting, are more prone to 'fight'.

Just my observations.

Originally Posted by Trackhead

I find dogs do their best socially when off leash. Leashed dogs, when meeting, are more prone to 'fight'.

Agreed, but I'm talking about dogs off leash. I won't tolerate that behavior on or off, but that's just me. It's also part of owning a BIG dog. No way can I allow any form of aggression, but self defense is another story entirely. Eventually he'll be big enough that even on leash he'll be able to destroy one an aggressive dog in one fell swoop. I won't begrudge him self-defense.

Originally Posted by truth

He was just fine on his own.

Originally Posted by Trackhead

I find dogs do their best socially when off leash. Leashed dogs, when meeting, are more prone to 'fight'.

TH has his finger on the problem here.

Sorry but (99.9999% chance) it is you and your dog that are initiating the fight here even though you don't think so (more specifically it is the interaction between you, the leash and your pup). Find a good trainer in your area and get your puppy into some training/socialization classes…yesterday. Make sure that he/she covers what you can do to mitigate this situation.

I bet 20 bucks that if you ran your dog off leash he wouldn't get in a single off leash to off leash altercation.

Right now it is basically you that is enabling this behavior.
[/not trying to be a dick]

Originally Posted by lemon boy

TH has his finger on the problem here.

Sorry but (99.9999% chance) it is you and your dog that are initiating the fight here even though you don't think so (more specifically it is the interaction between you, the leash and your pup). Find a good trainer in your area and get your puppy into some training/socialization classes…yesterday. Make sure that he/she covers what you can do to mitigate this situation.

I bet 20 bucks that if you ran your dog off leash he wouldn't get in a single off leash to off leash altercation.

Right now it is basically you that is enabling this behavior.
[/not trying to be a dick]

As the owner of one mildly aggressive old lady, I totally and completely concur. Bella is generally fine off the leash but when she's on a leash, it's a crapshoot. And I've been dealing with this for 8 years.

I never put my dog on a leash unless in a public crowded place such as a park or similar location............I don't worry about my dog. He's an average 60 pound Husky.

When he gets in a scuffel, it's usually of short duration (seconds), and ends with no harm or injury, just dominance establishment. I find this is just what dogs do. They aren't necessarily fighting, more establishing some sort of pecking order, whatever it may be. Leashing them, and pulling them back, only makes it worse.

I once owned two large male dogs. When we adopted the second dog, they had to establish who was dominant. They got in a few fights that were about 30 seconds long...........then............they just figured it out and were fine. The Husky was dominant, the other was not.

Again, I don't claim to be a Dog Psych expert, just observing behavior.

Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

As the owner of one mildly aggressive old lady, I totally and completely concur. Bella is generally fine off the leash but when she's on a leash, it's a crapshoot. And I've been dealing with this for 8 years.

Yeah, the Sue is the same way. I don't worry for even an instant off leash. There's some things that work well with Sue but I'm hesitant to bring them up cause they're only useful with my dog and may not be helpful for anyone else.

Truth,

Thought I saw you the other day...............


No wonder your dog is getting attacked.

Originally Posted by Conundrum

There's a bill being proposed this week or next that aims to make the lowest leashless trail here Hard Guy. I have really mixed feelings on that. But, the lower trails are so fucking crowded with beaters or "core" guys maching because they just warmed up their credit cards at the LBS, you almost have to go higher for good riding anyway.

yeah if I had a dog I'm not so sure I'd be too stoked about the bill being proposed....however most people I know have good control of their dogs (including the "2 red demons") so leash or no leash they're fine without the bill being passed.

the higher you go the better the riding in the footies...agreed, but there are a few lower "non trails" that are fun too

I find dogs do their best socially when off leash

my thoughts exactly. My dog does not like meeting other dogs, without the possibility of retreat (leashed). However, I'm convinced this is due to the fact that he has been attacked while meeting dogs that weren't leashed, while he was leashed. Also, that is no excuse for knowing your own dog, and what he is likely to do when meeting another dog.

I second Truth's rant! I've had to flying tackle about 4 different dogs who charged at my dog before even getting close to him, including 100+ lbs. of pissed off boxer, who's owner then told me if I hurt his dog, he'd sue me. I immediately forgave his dog, and told him that if I passed him on the way back down, and his dog wasn't leashed, i was coming after him, not his dog.

TRAINING STARTS WITH THE OWNER, NOT THE DOG!!!

I think LB is right. Alot of times it can be really tough to tell which dog/owner is the cause of the problem. I have two dogs that i walk together in the neighborhood, always leashed. NONE of the other neighborhood dogs are leashed. The large dog was always getting into little scraps when he was on the leash. It turns out that when i stopped for a second and just stayed calm and observed, it wasn't him and it wasn't the strange dog fault, it was my calm little black lab who was sending signals and starting the fights. Turned out the calm little black lab has shitty social skills and she and I are gonna work on that.

I agree dogs socialize better off the leash. I am starting to teach myself to stay calm and let the leash hang and in those circumstances my dog seems to socialize fine. (as Cesar would say 'No tension on the leash')

Originally Posted by lemon boy

TH has his finger on the problem here.

Sorry but (99.9999% chance) it is you and your dog that are initiating the fight here even though you don't think so (more specifically it is the interaction between you, the leash and your pup). Find a good trainer in your area and get your puppy into some training/socialization classes…yesterday. Make sure that he/she covers what you can do to mitigate this situation.

I bet 20 bucks that if you ran your dog off leash he wouldn't get in a single off leash to off leash altercation.

Right now it is basically you that is enabling this behavior.
[/not trying to be a dick]

You're wrong. 99.999% of the dogs, people, small woodland creatures, fraggles, trolls, dragons and other unknown life forms that we encounter he's a tail waggin' happy little guy. Now, when confronted with an aggressive dog, he's still a happy tail waggin' guy. He's totally calm, submissive to me and has virtually no reaction to an unstable dog until he's actually bit. He's not pulling the leash and I'm not yanking him back. Once he's bit, then he rightfully changes mood. Even then he is totally responsive to my voice commands. I work the hell out of him, have since day 1. The only time he's shown any aggression was on the 3rd day he was with us. Frozen brought his dog over and we allowed her into the house without making an introduction of the dogs first. Tonka pretty much flipped his lid but since then Shia and him are the best of buddies. It was our fault.

TH, I'm not sure I cold get him to wear that...pics a few weeks old.

Apparently Truth speaks dog. I'll offer you $100 to tell my lab to quit licking butts and humping other males.

Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Apparently Truth speaks dog. I'll offer you $100 to tell my lab to quit licking butts and humping other males.

Truth-I will offer you $100 to teach the Rev's dog the reach around while licking butts.

Originally Posted by snoweater

my thoughts exactly. My dog does not like meeting other dogs, without the possibility of retreat (leashed). However, I'm convinced this is due to the fact that he has been attacked while meeting dogs that weren't leashed, while he was leashed. Also, that is no excuse for knowing your own dog, and what he is likely to do when meeting another dog.

I second Truth's rant! I've had to flying tackle about 4 different dogs who charged at my dog before even getting close to him, including 100+ lbs. of pissed off boxer, who's owner then told me if I hurt his dog, he'd sue me. I immediately forgave his dog, and told him that if I passed him on the way back down, and his dog wasn't leashed, i was coming after him, not his dog.

TRAINING STARTS WITH THE OWNER, NOT THE DOG!!!

I think dogs definitely socialize better off the leash, but some owners have no control over their dogs and don't bother to train them. Our neighbor is some dirty stoner hippy chick who routinely lets her dogs wander into our yard, the street(which is busy, on a blind curve and on the bus route) and anywhere unsupervised. They have taken huge tufts of fur out my dogs hindquarters multiple times.

My dog normally wouldn't stand for it but when she is outnumbered she just kinda freezes and hides between my legs. I usually let the dogs sort it out but she sometimes has to be on the leash(she likes people/dogs but doesn't dig kids, which my neighborhood has lots of). It sucks because it is the owners fault not the dogs when they get hit or hurt someone elses dogs/kids/friends and end up at the shelter or worse.

Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Apparently Truth speaks dog. I'll offer you $100 to tell my lab to quit licking butts and humping other males.

I speak far better dog than I do human. I tend to like dogs more than humans as well. That's the truth.

Originally Posted by Conundrum

Truth-I will offer you $100 to teach the Rev's dog the reach around while licking butts.

I'll give a ya each $500 if you can teach Tonka to stop drooling. I swear one of these days he's gonna drown in his sleep.

Daaaaaaaaaamn! His paws already look like hands!

wow, didn't know Tonka was getting bit. That sucks. sorry dude.

In all the scraps my dogs have been involved my dog was only bit once on the ear when an alpha male didn't want my guy to beat him to a ball, that was when he was just a pup.

Luckily, although my dog is big and boisterous and loud, he has never bit another dog, only barked at and growled at while wrestling and only when the other dog comes running at him. Dogs that approach calmly and showing submission are great. he made friends with a chihauhua and a poodle in the last week.

Originally Posted by lph

wow, didn't know Tonka was getting bit. That sucks. sorry dude.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the original post. This isn't just typical dog dominance shit. These are truly aggro dogs. The loop we walked today was a bit over 2 hours along the Bonneville Shoreline Trail and a really nice section along Busse Creek. We saw 11 dogs and 6 people during that time. The only hint of trouble was from the dog that bit him. He greeted and then played briefly with the other dogs as they were all traveling in the opposite direction we were.

Originally Posted by truth

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the original post. This isn't just typical dog dominance shit. These are truly aggro dogs. The loop we walked today was a bit over 2 hours along the Bonneville Shoreline Trail and a really nice section along Busse Creek. We saw 11 dogs and 6 people during that time. The only hint of trouble was from the dog that bit him. He greeted and then played briefly with the other dogs as they were all traveling in the opposite direction we were.

with that info in mind, you are probably right you are running into bad dogs, or your dog and some of the other dogs simply don't like each other. In any case, that NEVER excuses biting, that is way too aggressive and like you said is different than growling/barking.

thinking back, i remember one time when Bodie (shepherd/lab) was an adolescent he got attacked by a small chow/pitbull mix, tackled him, pinned him and looked like he was going to bite him until i pulled the dog off. It scared the fuck out of him. for a long time he avoided that constantly 'off leash' neighborhood dog like the plague. then he grew up and without biting, established dominance on that dog during one of our walks, mounted him and growled at him, until I pulled bodie off. That dog now avoids him like the plague.

tonka won't be attacked for too much longer. other dogs and people are gonna clear a wide path for you guys.