Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: cars and sleds

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sweden/b'ham
    Posts
    1,105

    cars and sleds

    so i finally will be able to afford a sled for next winter. here is the thing: i dont want to drive a truck so there in lies the problem....

    right now i have a beat 96 legacy, do you think that could tow a single sled without smoking the drivetrain?

    if i do get a new car (which i probably will at some point in my life), what kind of car can tow a sled? why no truck you ask? well, i guess i am just not really a truck person. mostly though its the gas mileage. with road trips to tahoe and jackson, i need a car that can get some pretty good mileage.

    can an STI tow a single sled? its got a turbo 2.5, it must be able to handle that. how is the gas mileage on one of those? should i just get a Taco, stick some big wheels on it, and eat it with the mileage?

    what else is out there that i am missing? thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    220
    I'd have to guess your Subaru (which doesn't get great gas mileage anyways) wouldn't get much better mpg than a truck with a sled dragging behind it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    none
    Posts
    8,335
    Depending on what trailer you get, sure. An 800 Summit only weighs 450lbs.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    1,784
    Short answer: No.

    Long Answer: Cars aren't made to tow, your transmission will fail, and your turbo will fail from lugging the engine and it will cost you more than a cheap two wheel drive. So get a beater truck or if you need to save money and have decent milage a 2 wheel drive toyota, nissan, s-10, or ford ranger with a longbed. With a set of chains and a 500lb sled in the back you won't have troubles getting around. and if ya get stuck you have a spare rig in the back.

    don't stick big wheels on a taco it will not help the offroad capabilities much, and it will pretty much negate the milage you save from buying a full size rig. and they cost twice as much as a stock tire.

    Find a f-150 used in good shape, lot of great deals on full size rigs right now. you don't have to drive it everyday.

    if ya can't afford to buy the right gear with a sled then don't buy the sled cause it will eat a hole in your credit card balance fast. gas, belts, tune-ups, trailer, skirack etc....
    It’s the places you ride that are special, not you riding there.”

    All stunts performed without a net!

  5. #5
    Hugh Conway Guest
    won't most cars tow 800lbs?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    775
    Subaru's are rated to tow 2000LBS that will easily tow a single sled on a lite trailer. 2008 Outbacks are rated for 2700lbs.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sweden/b'ham
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by LT View Post
    Subaru's are rated to tow 2000LBS that will easily tow a single sled on a lite trailer. 2008 Outbacks are rated for 2700lbs.
    see, thats what i was thinking, but that doesn't necessarily mean the car is going to last when you are dragging 800 lbs up hill all the time.

    good call on the beater 2wd truck. with a sled in the bed, 2wd would probably be fine.

    FYI, my sube gets 30 mpg hwy and around 26 or so driving to a mountain. i have a friend with an F150 and he says it gets 17 at best. thats what i am trying to avoid if a truck is my only ride.

    it would be a pain in the but to have two cars, but it sounds like a truck and a daily driver car is the way to go....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    SE Idaho
    Posts
    3,426
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChief View Post
    Short answer: No.

    Long Answer: Cars aren't made to tow, your transmission will fail, and your turbo will fail from lugging the engine and it will cost you more than a cheap two wheel drive.
    This is BS in my opinion. I've been running a tow hitch on my 89 saab for the past 12 years. Turbocharged manual transmission. It now has 170K on it with no issues. I had a 95 2.2 litre and 99 2.5RS that I used to tow a 1500 pound capacity flat bed 4X8 trailer. I've hauled everthing from camping gear to dirt. If your lugging an engine, it's time to shift down and honestly a turbo is a passive device, it has no clue your lugging the engine. It responds to exhaust pulses coming from the engine. Typically if your lugging the engine EGT values go down not up. Most turbo charged transmissions are a bit over built due to the torque generated at lower RPM for a turbocharged engine. Honestly I'd be more worried about the extra load presented to the center differential in an AWD car (technically a part of the tranny in a Subaru). Anyway, I feel this is a generalization and I'd go for it if I were you.
    Driving to Targhee

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In the rain
    Posts
    1,621
    Here in Europe, subarus are known as tow cars.. One sled, hell most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at 2. I've seen em tow 4. But I have also seen the same vehicle have different ratings depending on if it's sold in Europe or the USA. Sometimes as much as double.....But here in Europe almost no one owns a pickup truck...there are no full size 'merican trucks on the road. So I guess we make more use of what we have.

    Subaru waggons in the UK more regularly tow horse boxes with two horses on board.....I think that is 4 sleds in weight?

    Most vehicles used for towing here are manual...that might make a difference.
    Knowledge is Powder

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SL.UT (CWH, bra)
    Posts
    433
    IMO the biggest thing is to make sure you have a manual transmission. Towing any weight on an auto up passes n such will kill it. If you have to run an auto, just make sure you check the tranny fluid regularly... not just the level, checking your tranny fluid includes a good sniff to smell if it's burnt or not. If it smells burnt, replace it pronto. Otherwise the biggest downside to towing w/ a small car is the obvious decrease in gas mileage. Not sure on the turbo issue but sounds like it'd be ok. I stay away from turbos personally...
    but I know we can't all stay here forever, so I wanna write my words on the face of today...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by Idris View Post
    Here in Europe, subarus are known as tow cars.. One sled, hell most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at 2. I've seen em tow 4. But I have also seen the same vehicle have different ratings depending on if it's sold in Europe or the USA. Sometimes as much as double.....But here in Europe almost no one owns a pickup truck...there are no full size 'merican trucks on the road. So I guess we make more use of what we have.

    Subaru waggons in the UK more regularly tow horse boxes with two horses on board.....I think that is 4 sleds in weight?

    Most vehicles used for towing here are manual...that might make a difference.
    I noticed that when I was in New Zealand as well. Most people that seemed to be towing had those Holden El Camino looking things.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    1,784
    Quote Originally Posted by cooltsi View Post
    This is BS in my opinion. I've been running a tow hitch on my 89 saab for the past 12 years. Turbocharged manual transmission. It now has 170K on it with no issues. I had a 95 2.2 litre and 99 2.5RS that I used to tow a 1500 pound capacity flat bed 4X8 trailer. I've hauled everthing from camping gear to dirt. If your lugging an engine, it's time to shift down and honestly a turbo is a passive device, it has no clue your lugging the engine. It responds to exhaust pulses coming from the engine. Typically if your lugging the engine EGT values go down not up. Most turbo charged transmissions are a bit over built due to the torque generated at lower RPM for a turbocharged engine. Honestly I'd be more worried about the extra load presented to the center differential in an AWD car (technically a part of the tranny in a Subaru). Anyway, I feel this is a generalization and I'd go for it if I were you.
    Experiences differ greatly, I'm glad you have had good luck with yer Sob.

    Full throttle when under a certain rpm (my car 2300 RPM) is a bad combination for turbo charged engines, surging happens and the turbo grenades and takes everything with it. especially at high altitudes. It is not a passive component.

    I have seen several per year, automatic and manual transmission cars pulling trailers across the country on their national park summer vacations. I always saw them in the stealership my brother worked at. The authority warned me he will not replace my transmission if I put a trailer hitch on my car and pull sleds.

    As far as the tow rating is concerned, take your 500 lb sled (Dry) add full fuel + extra for long trips and weekends, a bunch of snow and ice in the tunnel, tools and whatever else ends up in the cubbyhole behind the seat, and possibly another sled (if ya buy a 2place trailer it will happen) a few friends along for the ride and all their gear makes for a heavy vehicle, which taxes the drivetrain, the brakes andseverly effects the handling. If you don't kill yourself you may kill someone else. I've made the mistake of pulling four sleds behind a Cherokee for 180 miles, that was the worst day driving I remember, it totally unloaded the weight from the front end and rendered the front brakes useless. it sucks driving overload, especially when we got out in the front range wind.

    Not total BS just like to play it safe and use the right tools for the job. and I hate working on my rigs when they break or hoping I have cell reception to call AAA.
    Last edited by SuperChief; 04-22-2008 at 04:45 PM.
    It’s the places you ride that are special, not you riding there.”

    All stunts performed without a net!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Comox,BC
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChief View Post
    I've made the mistake of pulling four sleds behind a Cherokee for 180 miles.
    and cherokees are rated to tow 5000lbs ( at least the 4.0L is)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,707
    The problem is not just the drivetrain. A subaru legacy is not a particularly heavy car. All that load pushing it around in snow will get scary, especially since the load is on the trailer, not over the rear wheels. Once you put brakes on the trailer, etc. etc. you're wating a lot of time and money. Get a beater truck (std. trans if possible) it's a lot easier.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Time2clmbistan
    Posts
    1,754
    Quote Originally Posted by dorikin69 View Post
    those Holden El Camino looking things.

    Ive been waiting and hoping for North American Car manufacturers to produce those things up here but nooooooooooooooo. Some assholes seem to still think that if its not a big truck, North americans wont be interested.
    BULLSHIT!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldo View Post
    what happened to Shadam this year? Usually by now he is posting drinking reports daily.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,885
    Quote Originally Posted by Huckin eh? View Post
    Some assholes seem to still think that if its not a big truck, North americans wont be interested.
    BULLSHIT!
    toyota is now making a fullsized pickup as opposed to north american trucks downsizing to the imported japanese type truck

    doesnt a big fullsize pickup = bigger dick ?

    at least until you can't afford to run it ?

    I had a rusty/high milage 91 f150 with the big 6 for field work last fall ,just check the oil & rad every AM before hitting the bush and those things will run forever ... which is good cuz you don't get anywhere fast
    Last edited by XXX-er; 04-22-2008 at 07:27 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Livingston, MT
    Posts
    1,785
    I know a guy who pulls his sled behind a Legacy wagon. No probs so far, just pissing away alot on gas and some added wear and tear. Your kinda screwed either way these days with gas prices so high. Your gonna get shitty mileage w/ a truck (unless it is a chipped newer Cummins diesel) and your milage with car is gonna blow towing a sled. I'd get a beater truck if you can afford it. I destroyed my old car years ago pulling my first sled, but damn it was cool to pull into the sled neck parking areas pulling my RMK w/ a Ford Tempo, definately got a lot of looks from the big dick crowd.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Time2clmbistan
    Posts
    1,754
    All this fussing about gas mileage!
    He's only gonna get the shitty mileage when he is pulling the sled! And at that, is it gonna be any different than a truck pulling a sled????

    The rest of the year when he is using the car as a vehicle, he is going to be getting CAR gas mileage ? no?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldo View Post
    what happened to Shadam this year? Usually by now he is posting drinking reports daily.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    62
    i drive a subaru wrx. i get 21 in town, 24 on the highway.....driving nice. if there was a sled in back, it would be like 15-18 i would guess(total guess).......sti's get about 3 miles less per gallon. now if you also factor in the 91 octane gas you have to run with IHI turbos, it would probably be cheaper to use a beat truck for towing.

    also, a wrx or sti will double your insurance rates.......

    i think a beater truck just for sledding is your best solution.

    wrx or sti will just cost you more

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    62
    adding to what i said above.....

    i bet it costs the same on gas with a sti as a ford f150. the sti gets 4 more miles to the gallon, but you gotta pay for sper premium gas every fillup due to the IHI turbo, which is like 30-40 cents more a gallon...... you factor in car insurance, and you would lose big time with a new subie (oldest sti in the states is an 04)........ youd lose even with a 02-up wrx

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,707
    Quote Originally Posted by Huckin eh? View Post
    is it gonna be any different than a truck pulling a sled????
    yes

    5678

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pleasuretown
    Posts
    1,095
    I've been pulling sleds with subarus for years. Usually one at a time, but I've pulled 2 on many occasions. Up hills, down hills, long trips, short trips, dry roads, and super slick ones. It is fine. I've done it now with a 1990, a 1995, and a 2000 legacy. The first two lasted for 250,000 miles (I think the '95 is still on the road). The 2000 that I'm driving now is fine.

    When it gets slick, just chain the trailer up. If you have to, chain the car up too. No big deal.

    Sure, your mileage will be affected a bit, but you are towing. It will be affected in any vehicle. We all know this, I don't know why people keep making the point (like I am doing now).

    Tow away, my friend.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sweden/b'ham
    Posts
    1,105
    thanks for the great beta guys. well i drove 300+ miles today and thought about this the whole time.

    i think i just might get a newish taco as my only ride. it would just be a huge hassle to have two cars (i live in a city with limited parking). the taco insurance will by far less than an STI and i wont have to put premium in it.

    can anyone throw out some gas mileage numbers for a taco with stock wheels, slightly larger after market wheels, or with a sled in the bed? if its anything north of 20 without a sled, that might be good enough.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United States of Aburdistan
    Posts
    7,281
    I've towed a sled for seven years with a subie and recommend:

    Engine must be at least a 2.5
    Only tow one sled and buy a single trailer
    Make sure the trailer is light-ish and the tires are not narrower or wider than the car
    Avoid turbo engines
    Have to have a manual
    Studs on the car is nice.

    Ya know, towing creates wear and tear on anything, trucks or cars. Gas mileage is maybe 20-25% more than normal. Studs don't help gas mileage either.

    I go 75 on the freeway (any faster and it's too expensive) and can go 65 up steep freeway passes. Acceleration from a stop is only a little slower than without towing, which really surprised me.

    Studs are key when you are going up an access road that is gnarly. The weight of the trailer can make you slide on off-camber roads. If you even encounter these, depends on where you ride.

    A light trailer is key because if you can't turn around going up a FS road or get stuck because of the weight of the snowmobile, you can swivel the trailer around all by yourself. Manual is key because in deep snow you need traction.

    Towing with the right Subaru car works fine, don't let anyone talk you out of it. The clear disadvantages are you can only tow one sled (some people tow more than one though, I'm only commenting on my experience, but two-tops axles are wider than subies and create problems towing in deep snow) and also clearance issues with waterbars. As for the former, everyone else that you know who sleds always has a two-top (unless yer in BC) so you don't really have to use your car so much and for the later, well, if the water-barred roads have snow on them park before you get stuck and snowmobile up from the bottom. It's faster anyways. And you can clear a lot of waterbars by driving across them diagonally.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United States of Aburdistan
    Posts
    7,281
    god damnit, i just wasted my time writing that. haha. one minute too late!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •