GUNS!!!!!!!!

**Nick_C_123** · 10-14-2010, 12:13 PM

Not to spoil the fun, but wouldn't it be hard to claim self-defense if you shot someone through a car door?

**ncskier** · 10-14-2010, 01:34 PM

Not if they were in my garage and trying to steal it by ramming me and the car throught the closed door.

**DeepHelmet** · 10-14-2010, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by ncognico

Not to spoil the fun, but wouldn't it be hard to claim self-defense if you shot someone through a car door?

No. A good shoot is a good shoot. I can think of all kinds of reasons one would need to shoot through some sort of media.

**Rossta** · 10-14-2010, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by ncognico

Not to spoil the fun, but wouldn't it be hard to claim self-defense if you shot someone through a car door?

but officer, he went like this

**Donkey Punch** · 10-14-2010, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by ncognico

Not to spoil the fun, but wouldn't it be hard to claim self-defense if you shot someone through a car door?

Not if they are holding a gun on you trying to steal said car. Not sure it would be smart to do it, just playing devils advocate.

**Jer** · 10-14-2010, 03:58 PM

Hey guys - can we go full geek and start arguing about external ballistics instead of terminal ballistics?

Originally Posted by DeepHelmet

1. bad guy hit in upper chest by one 223 round from short distance. Falls to the ground and stops fighting, but he was clearly just a pussy and not incapacitated.

Classic!

**zion zig zag** · 10-14-2010, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Cono Este

I think .357 sig must be an awesome round. A glock 33 might be in the future. Or a 29 in 10mm. But that package frightens me a bit.

If you get the 10mm and you're going to shoot the hot loads (which you should, otherwise get a 40)check out the lone wolf aftermarket barrel, it's more fully supported. You may also want to upgrade to a heavier spring, like 21lbs.

**waxman** · 10-14-2010, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by DeepHelmet

Or if you get shot by a 1911 in 45 ACP, because JMB will rip your soul from your body and kill you.

tied for second as best post or part of the post...

**DeepHelmet** · 10-14-2010, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jer

Hey guys - can we go full geek and start arguing about external ballistics instead of terminal ballistics?

Nope. WAY above my head.

**Rubicon** · 10-14-2010, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by ncognico

Not to spoil the fun, but wouldn't it be hard to claim self-defense if you shot someone through a car door?

What Deephelmet said.

The car door was just an example. It could be anything and, yes, there are many plausible scenarios where you might need to shoot through something and be able to legitimately claim self defense.

**Nick_C_123** · 10-15-2010, 12:00 PM

Ok I'll concede. If I try hard I can think of some of some scenarios where (cops and soldiers aside) someone might need to shoot through car door in self-defense. But I wonder if these have ever really happened in real life. It sounds like the .357 was developed because the 38 couldn't do just that. But that was really for cops.

I think my point was that the ability to shoot through a car door would be one of the last criteria to consider when choosing a self-defense weapon. In some ways over-penetration through objects would be something to avoid. Compact size, acceptable power, and cheap ammo so you can actually practice come to mind first.

But all hypothetical scenarios aside, the real question is: what gun should I be getting in case I need to shoot a grizzly bear through a car door?

**DeepHelmet** · 10-15-2010, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by ncognico

Ok I'll concede. If I try hard I can think of some of some scenarios where (cops and soldiers aside) someone might need to shoot through car door in self-defense. But I wonder if these have ever really happened in real life. It sounds like the .357 was developed because the 38 couldn't do just that. But that was really for cops.

I think my point was that the ability to shoot through a car door would be one of the last criteria to consider when choosing a self-defense weapon. In some ways over-penetration through objects would be something to avoid. Compact size, acceptable power, and cheap ammo so you can actually practice come to mind first.

But all hypothetical scenarios aside, the real question is: what gun should I be getting in case I need to shoot a grizzly bear through a car door?

"AK-47, when you absolutely positively have to kill every mutha fucka in the room" .......Or shoot a Grizzly bear whos trying to steal your car. God I love that movie.

**TNKen** · 10-15-2010, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by ncognico

But all hypothetical scenarios aside, the real question is: what gun should I be getting in case I need to shoot a grizzly bear through a car door?

Barrett M82A1 CQ in .50BMG. CQ means "Close Quarters" Don't forget your ear plugs.

**MakersTeleMark** · 10-15-2010, 05:57 PM

I knew, and love the fact, that TNKen would produce the real world zombie gun within a few posts.

**leroy jenkins** · 10-17-2010, 12:02 AM

Went out to the usual spot in the desert this morning, ran into a couple of guys that had steel plates set up at measured hundred yard intervals from 400-1000 yards. I watched them work their way out to the 1000 yard mark, so awesome to see the tiny little 18" plate at 1000 go ding! ding! ding!

Then they helped me dial in my scope to shoot my 556 at 400 yards, once I got it figured out I shot a 20 round mag with 19 hits on a 12" peice of steel at 400. I know, not that impressive, but a good step forwards for me. 3MOA at 400 yards consistently isnt anything to sneeze at when shooting 55gr 223's out of a 16" barrel.

Then I shot their M1A and made a bunch of hits at 600 and a few at 700.

It's just such an awesome thing for people to be able to do, I cant get over it. Just a few minutes ago I was looking out from my front porch at the other side of a gully 700 yards away, just imagining being able to reach my hand out and make a tiny little poof in the dirt at that distance, just so fucking cool. Watching them shoot at 1000 was just about as awesome as actually shooting at 400, never seen anything like that.

This has reaffirmed and reinspired my desire to learn to shoot at 1000 yards, it just makes me pants tight and my soul happy and at peace.

Now I just need to get a whole lot of money to be able to buy all the shit you need to set this up and pull it off. 6 steel plates alone is a lot of coin.

EDIT: Almost forgot, turns out dude used to work at the bird, and mentioned jeremy nobis's name, not as a pro skier, but just as a dude he used to rip around with that he thought i might know, guy had no idea what nobis has been doing for the past 10 years. Funneh

Also, if anyone has any idea what a 400 yard zero with the setup translates to at closer ranges, like 200, let me know.

**waxman** · 10-17-2010, 11:07 AM

leroy use this. it's pretty much plug and play and for the most part dead on if you do your part
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

**Jer** · 10-18-2010, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Also, if anyone has any idea what a 400 yard zero with the setup translates to at closer ranges, like 200, let me know.

Without knowing the muzzle velocity, exact bullet, elevation, humidity, cloud cover, etc, - I'd say 5 1/2 MOA on the high side. This is assuming about 3000 fps, at 5500 feet elevation (50% humidity, 70 degrees) with a 55 grain FMJBT. This is just a rough guess.

Glad to see we've gone full-geek.

**leroy jenkins** · 10-19-2010, 03:04 PM

Thanks guys, for the info and helping me realize I can now add chronograph to the list of shit I need to somehow save money for to start doign this.

Chronograph(s)
Rangefinder
Steel plates
scope/mount for my FAL
finally a decent cleaning kit with 1 peice rod
lots of ammo

Fuck me. No wonder so few people do this, it isnt hard, its just expensive.

**Donkey Punch** · 10-24-2010, 05:43 PM

Just got home from taking a CCW class with my wife this morning and then a tactical pistols class this afternoon. Damn my thumb is sore from loading mag after mag, after mag. We both learned quite a bit, and had a great time doing it. Maybe the best part was getting to shoot a Suppressed SBR M4 when we where done with our pistol class. Now I really want one of those, even with all the hoops that we would have to jump through.

**TNKen** · 10-24-2010, 09:15 PM

Got a friend that has been waiting on a Custom Eclipse II for 6 months. Nice pickup!!~

Ken

LT · 10-25-2010, 11:26 AM

Just picked up a Ruger SP101 .357 with 3" barrel. You guys recommend speed strips or speed loaders? The one benefit of strips is they'll hold more than the cylinder on the revolver thus allowing for more rounds carried versus a speed loader which is limited.

**Fat City** · 10-25-2010, 12:26 PM

I was talking with a buddy of mine a few weeks ago, and he had mentioned a "new" company based out of Boise, ID that were manufacturing/offering a gas operated AR 15 platform.
Does anybody have any info on this company, or thoughts on the design platform?
Thnx
Fats-

**zion zig zag** · 10-25-2010, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Fat City

I was talking with a buddy of mine a few weeks ago, and he had mentioned a "new" company based out of Boise, ID that were manufacturing/offering a gas operated AR 15 platform.
Does anybody have any info on this company, or thoughts on the design platform?
Thnx
Fats-

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/home.asp

Looks like all of their rifles come with the beefed up/extended latch charging handle, which is a must upgrade on any AR without it. Other than that I don't know anything about them.

edit: as far as the gas operated platform, lots of companies offer it now and it seems to be nice.

edit2: I meant piston. Thanks waxman.

**Fat City** · 10-25-2010, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by zion zig zag

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/home.asp

Looks like all of their rifles come with the beefed up/extended latch charging handle, which is a must upgrade on any AR without it. Other than that I don't know anything about them.

edit: as far as the gas operated platform, lots of companies offer it now and it seems to be nice.

Yep, that's them. I couldn't remember the companies name. I've been looking at these, as well as the Robinson XCR. I've heard great things about both of these.....
Fats-

CS · 10-25-2010, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey Punch

. Now I really want one of those, even with all the hoops that we would have to jump through.

At least you have the hoops to jump through. Those hoops don't exist here.

I just got into the gun thing last spring and one thing I have learned real quick, owning and gun a living in California do not mix well.