Fat & Soft, 125mm+: EP Pro, Prophet 130, Sumo, Hellbent???

**sierraskier** · 01-31-2008, 12:44 PM

Alright, this current storm cycle in Tahoe has me looking to expand the quiver for a fat & soft pow ski. Not too sure about crazy funshapes, reverse sidecut, or a lot of rocker as I really don't want to be have to worry about splatting on a hard cat track, traversing, or the inevitable bony chute entrance, etc... What should I be looking at? Preferably something I can get a deal on since it is a quiver ski and really, totally unnecessary. The Sumo looks interesting just b/c I love the Got flex pattern and it's a known quantity, but Prophet 130, EP Pro, and possibly the Hellbent look like similar dimension (I know Hellbent and EP Pro are rockered). Anyone have an actual running length for the 175 and 190 Sumo? Let's hear some suggestions, comments, tirades...

Fire away fools!

**300hp** · 01-31-2008, 12:58 PM

sumos are smeary and fun. they are the stiffest out of the aformentioned skis. The ep pro is soooo soft, but I don't think its a bad thing given its intended use, mount position and the style of skiing it was designed for. The hellbent is better on runouts and cattracks than the EP, but the sumo trumps them both on hard snow. While the sumo is not rockered, the tips are huge and have a long rise on them. Two different generations of sumos exist. the brown (first) ones measure about a 180-182, but have a smaller contact area from teh freaking huge tips. the new generation measures a true 175 and the tips are more subdued. the twin on the tail is relatively small and does not take away from running length as much as on the hellbent and ep pro. the 179 hellbent is close to a 183 on the volkl scale.
Hunter

**PlayHarder** · 01-31-2008, 01:33 PM

I'm liking my M1111s more and more all the time, they miss the 125mm mark by about 4mm but the huge tip and swallowtail should offset that. I'd originally planned on them only coming out for cat trips, but after taking them out on a huge day at Castle I found they're pretty good on traverses, cat tracks and even groomed for a fat ski.

**grskier** · 01-31-2008, 03:04 PM

My 190 Sumos are some of the most fun skis ever...

they butter, they carve, they power slide, they ollie, they can charge in most conditions....

If you are skiing them in deep, get the 190...

You are getting a pow ski to ski pow right.

I haven't skied the others, just stoked on mine... sorry if it doesn't help too much.

**Harv** · 01-31-2008, 03:07 PM

I have Prophet 130's and Praxis 185's. Once I got used to the Praxis (took about 2 days) I have not touched the Prophets. I think the whole can't ski them on a groomer, etc. is way overblown. There are a million reviews here so I won't regirgetate...Praxis are just way more fun than the Prophets.

**ptavv** · 01-31-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by 300hp

The ep pro is soooo soft, but I don't think its a bad thing given its intended use, mount position and the style of skiing it was designed for. The hellbent is better on runouts and cattracks than the EP, but the sumo trumps them both on hard snow

Have you skied either of these?

I own EPPs and have skied on them nearly every day for the past two weeks. They're considerably better on runouts and cattracks than Hellbents (they have lower tips and tails), and they're not "sooooo soft". They're quite stiff underfoot where they're pressed flat (they don't have rocker).

**single** · 01-31-2008, 03:55 PM

I think the hellbents are pretty damn soft, but a good quiver ski if you are looking for it. Ideal for flippy-spinny-ness, but a good ski none the less for everything else. The tails IMO, are too soft to really charge, and the tails on the EP pro are softer.

I think ARG type shape is the money. That being said, I have yet to order my args, or ski a pair for that matter. But in the hand flex contest, they are much stiffer than the aforementioned skis, and seem to be lighter.

**ptavv** · 01-31-2008, 03:57 PM

The flex of the tips and tails of EPPs and Hellbents is pointless. Yes they're floppy if you put the tip against a wall, and the tail on the floor and push. That's because of the super long rise in the tip and tail.

Put the flat parts on something and push downwards. They're plenty stiff underfoot, and when you've got them on edge (the EPPs anyway) will hold very well without skipping or flopping.

People are putting way way way too much stock in putting them up against a wall and pushing on them to flex them.

**single** · 01-31-2008, 04:06 PM

I think that they were too soft underfoot, in the actual tail of the ski. Not in the rocker. In anything hardpack they washed out and sent me into a wheelie. With the hellbents, these things are still soft when flexed closer to the ground. I cant imagine the hellbents are softer underfoot than the EP pros.

The hellbents look rediculous coming down the groom unless you are RAILING an edge, which is possible. It is like having two little snowboards on. Tip-flop-tastic.

**ptavv** · 01-31-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by single

In anything but straight pow/crud they washed out.

I honestly don't know what to tell you. I've skied them on groomers quite a bit on my way to/from the goods. I've skied them in cut up chunky moguls (they weren't awesome in those, but they did fine).

I've straightlined bowls of cut up pow. I've straightlined groomers on them. I've straightlined over avy debris on them.

They perform adaquately, if not well, in all of those.

**single** · 01-31-2008, 04:14 PM

Yeah, I am thinking that because the EP's have a bit less rocker in the tips and tails, they probably are less inclined to wheelie up like the hellbents are. I dont know. Plus, the EP's look sexy, so if it is a toss-up between the two skis, I would go EP.

And this problem didnt necessarily occur in just straight hardpack. If I was skiing tracked pow and came over a bump where someone scraped the snow off, it made an interesting suprise.

**Bandit Man** · 01-31-2008, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by grskier

My 190 Sumos are some of the most fun skis ever...

they butter, they carve, they power slide, they ollie, they can charge in most conditions....

If you are skiing them in deep, get the 190...

^^^^^Totally Agree with grskier.

I tend to ski my 190's more than my 185 Praxis. They are like an ever so slightly softer fatty-fat Gotama. Love them!!

**sierraskier** · 01-31-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by 300hp

Two different generations of sumos exist. the brown (first) ones measure about a 180-182, but have a smaller contact area from teh freaking huge tips. the new generation measures a true 175 and the tips are more subdued. the twin on the tail is relatively small and does not take away from running length as much as on the hellbent and ep pro. the 179 hellbent is close to a 183 on the volkl scale.
Hunter

So are you saying the brown 175 or 190 actually measures a 180-182?

**Bandit Man** · 01-31-2008, 05:31 PM

1st Gen brown leather 175 is really ~182. That was the only size.
2nd Gen comes in 175 and 190. The 190 is a true 190.

**sierraskier** · 01-31-2008, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Bandit Man

1st Gen brown leather 175 is really ~182. That was the only size.
2nd Gen comes in 175 and 190. The 190 is a true 190.

got it, thanks. first gen tips sound like they might be more fun and floaty - like a funshape but...not.

**Skipig25** · 01-31-2008, 05:52 PM

for a non-funshape (not to say they're not fun) check out the moment comi or comi-kazi

**300hp** · 01-31-2008, 08:52 PM

I have, but I have not logged lots of time on each. I didn't mean to come off like I was stating the law. This could have been due to skiing a pre-prod pair of EPs, with a very forward mount on them. I'm sure that different mounts on each ski will really effect the way they feel given the rocker and all. That being said, I'm glad your stoked on the EPs. between the two skis, if price were the same, I don't know which I would choose.
Hunter

Originally Posted by ptavv

The flex of the tips and tails of EPPs and Hellbents is pointless. Yes they're floppy if you put the tip against a wall, and the tail on the floor and push. That's because of the super long rise in the tip and tail.

Put the flat parts on something and push downwards. They're plenty stiff underfoot, and when you've got them on edge (the EPPs anyway) will hold very well without skipping or flopping.

People are putting way way way too much stock in putting them up against a wall and pushing on them to flex them.