Thread: Inbounds avy at KW today?!

Originally Posted by lph

Glad to hear it. I have forwarded a link to this thread to the head of patrol at Kirkwood.

Originally Posted by lph

Glad to hear it. I have forwarded a link to this thread to the head of patrol at Kirkwood.

Don't mess with lph.... I guess...

For the sake of the patrons at KW, I hope they take BSS observations seriously. KW always talks about the danger of avalanche at their mountain, and their patrol should be well trained in how to respond to an emergency.

Originally Posted by ski_trader

Don't mess with lph.... I guess...

BSS made some pretty subjective observations of their response.

Don't you think they deserve a chance to respond? Or, should this be a one sided discussion?

Originally Posted by lph

Don't you think they deserve a chance to respond? Or, should this be a one sided discussion?

This is a discussion among the members of this community, not a "one-sided discussion." If they are members of this community, "they deserve" -- and have -- "a chance to respond."

Originally Posted by lph

BSS made some pretty subjective observations of their response.

Don't you think they deserve a chance to respond? Or, should this be a one sided discussion?

I'm not seeing the patrol responding publicly with anything other than "we did a great and professional job"

Originally Posted by 4matic

Has their ever been an in bounds avy death at Kirkwood?

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With all the hand wringing and fear mongering can anyone answer this question?


If the answer is "no" I don't see the urgency to be carrying a shovel in bounds.

Originally Posted by 4matic

If the answer is "no" I don't see the urgency to be carrying a shovel in bounds.

There are only a couple of avalanche deaths a year in California, really, why bother when touring?

Originally Posted by alpinedad

This is a discussion among the members of this community, not a "one-sided discussion." If they are members of this community, "they deserve" -- and have -- "a chance to respond."

You are absolutely right, there is a discussion going on within this thread among the members of this community. However, there is also a subjective review of the response of the Kirkwood patrol by a patron of Kirkwood who was on the scene.

This is a public forum. All that any Patroller at Kirkwood would have to do is to sign on to have the right to respond.

I hope they do, but who knows, they might decide not to respond. Ultimately, it is their choice and their choice only. It is not up to the collective members of this forum.

4matic, I’m not a fan of hand wringing either, but Kirkwood receives a lot of snow and even more wind. If you’re going to be poking around the edges of the resort on big snow days you should be aware that something might move on you. Skiing with a friend is the best way to stay safe. The other safety gear doesn’t hurt.

Originally Posted by alpinedad

This is a discussion among the members of this community, not a "one-sided discussion." If they are members of this community, "they deserve" -- and have -- "a chance to respond."

What's with the "This Community" shit, you Gapicski Barking Bear?

I see a lot of 20/20 hindsight, Interweb QB-ing and High-horse horseshit being thrown around. I think the KW patrollers deserve to share their point of view, regardless of their post count.

Just throwing this out there. I'm working a story for the reno paper and would love to talk to anyone who was there for this. It's pretty important events like this see the light of day. That's where awareness starts. Feel free to IM me. I'll be driving my buddy to Truckee from Kwood. Poor dood just blew his ACL today.

Response or no response, I think it's a good thing for KW patrol to get some third party feedback with regards to the search effort.

Kudos to BSS for posting his observations up and kudos to lph for bringing it to patrol's attention.

Originally Posted by 4matic

If the answer is "no" I don't see the urgency to be carrying a shovel in bounds.

I don't know the answer to your question....but if the answer is indeed "no", then isn't there a chance that there might have been a burial at some time and a partner with a beacon and a shovel was around to locate the potential victim and dig him out?

As others have said, KW is a pretty interesting mountain that recieves tons of snow and tons of winds. I've seen small stuff break free and move on people plenty of times "post control". Hell personally, I had one day a few years ago just on a warm spring day when I nearly got taken for a ride in the Cirque. It was a very warm day and it hadn't snowed in a few weeks and I was skiing solo traversing as high into the Cirque as you can access from the Eagle Bowl area. So basically, I was at the end of the highest legal traverse you can make into the Cirque, about to drop into my line, when I hear what I can only describe as a sort of "rumbling thunder" above me. I look up, and see a small wall of snow & slush cascading over the rocks about 50 yards above me and it was moving FAST. The only thing I could do was back up as quickly as I could along my traverse track. I was able to slide back about 5 yards and the slide went wooshing past my ski tips. In the middle it was a few feet high and easily would have taken me out and carried me for a ride. Doubtful it would have been deep enough to bury me (I guess you never know though), but I have certainly be carried over some rocks.

Anyway, shit happens, during storm cycles like the one we're currently in, I'll be wearing my gear in bounds.

Just as long as that liar Cohee doesn't reply, I am all ears. That guy is so full of shit his breath smells!

Originally Posted by 4matic

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With all the hand wringing and fear mongering can anyone answer this question?


If the answer is "no" I don't see the urgency to be carrying a shovel in bounds.

Yea statistics is always a warranty for something not happening a first time, isn't it

Originally Posted by Superstar Punani

I think the KW patrollers deserve to share their point of view, regardless of their post count.

No argument here. My quibble was just with lph's dialectic, which presumed that either KW and/or its patrollers should be specifically invited, or this wasn't a dialogue.

Originally Posted by Pat

"25-30 minutes until dogs and recco gear was on scene"

Not sure where you ski, but that's FAR from the case where I go. The Recco might be a few minutes later than beacons. Seriously. It can get anywhere in five minutes.

"can" and "does" are two very different realities.

Originally Posted by alpinedad

No argument here. My quibble was just with lph's dialectic, which presumed that either KW and/or its patrollers should be specifically invited, or this wasn't a dialogue.

My dialectic? Holy shit, that is a cool word, I am gonna write it on my hand so I won't forget it. Gonna look that up when i get home.

Yes, I believe they should have a chance to answer BSS charges and I believe that if this truly is a learning experience that they should be invited to the discussion. (wtf, since when this did this place require invitations?)

My guess is if they don't find out about this thread through me, they will find out anyway.

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

There are only a couple of avalanche deaths a year in California, really, why bother when touring?

I've recently discovered the joy of birthday suit touring. Refreshing, natural and wholly unhindered by the vices of modern technology. I look forward to recovering a friend from avy debris with 'nature's probe'.

skied a couple laps to gardnerville today from heavy. wind was howling up there. on our 2nd lap i hear a voice yell, look up and oveer and see a decent size slide screaming down. justa word of caution that this storm today has really moved some snow around and its not still bomber blower everywhere.

Originally Posted by gimpy

skied a couple laps to gardnerville today from heavy. wind was howling up there. on our 2nd lap i hear a voice yell, look up and oveer and see a decent size slide screaming down. justa word of caution that this storm today has really moved some snow around and its not still bomber blower everywhere.

With yesterday's crazy ass winds and snow (at least on the northside) and today's snow and winds........was this the best day to be doing that up there?

I'm obviously on the other side of the lake and don't know the faces in question as well as you but it seems like kind of a gnarly day to out on that endeavor.

Originally Posted by thd

Yea statistics is always a warranty for something not happening a first time, isn't it

Like buying flight insurance? It could happen.. But that avalanche crushed the main lodge so I suppose we need to wear beacons and carry shovels in the bar too?

The last avalanche deaths in bounds I could find is the big one at Alpine in 1982. So, were talking 100 million skier visits without an Avalanche death in Tahoe resorts.

Originally Posted by lph

My dialectic? Holy shit, that is a cool word, I am gonna write it on my hand so I won't forget it. Gonna look that up when i get home.

Yes, I believe they should have a chance to answer BSS charges and I believe that if this truly is a learning experience that they should be invited to the discussion. (wtf, since when this did this place require invitations?)

My guess is if they don't find out about this thread through me, they will find out anyway.

I have been kind of surprised by your responses. I had to go back and re read BSS's posts to find out what he said that had you so uptight. I couldn't really find him saying anything that seemed to bad? The only actual negative thing that I pulled was that the volunteers just seemed to get in the way. Other that that, he said no real leader steeped up? I mean I can't really find anything worse than that. Was there something specific that he said that got to you?

Originally Posted by 4matic

Like buying flight insurance? It could happen.. But that avalanche crushed the main lodge so I suppose we need to wear beacons and carry shovels in the bar too?

The last avalanche deaths in bounds I could find is the big one at Alpine in 1982. So, were talking 100 million skier visits without an Avalanche death in Tahoe resorts.

I think you have to incorporate Tyrone's argument from earlier....you should be looking at how many have been pulled out and saved, not how many died. Also, 100 million visits accounts for grandma's cruising the groomers ect, not just this group which is pushing the boarders of the ski areas and is going to make for a much smaller data set. If you are skiing the nooks of resorts like Kirkwood, Alpine & Mammoth during huge storm cycles like we are in now it seems like you should prepare better for an Avi than if you were part of the other 98 million skiers cruising the likes of Northstar and Sierra.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces

I don't know the answer to your question....but if the answer is indeed "no", then isn't there a chance that there might have been a burial at some time and a partner with a beacon and a shovel was around to locate the potential victim and dig him out?

I read a story that described a burial at Kirkwood where the victim was rescued by their avalanche dogs. It was in a piece that also included the hudge avalanche they had at Alpine a few years back. Somebody else here must have read this story.