Thread: DIN setting, keep the knees I have

So I took my prophet 90s/px15s to get mounted today. Pretty pumped. Anyhow, my question is this: is there any way to make bindings a little more knee friendly by changing your DIN a little? I've heard some talk about lower DIN in the toe than in the heel, but I don't know if there's any truth to it. I can't imagine these skis are ever going to take me anywhere that a slight pre-release would do more damage than keeping them and rocking my knees, but I don't know. Hopefully you do. I'm around 6'3" 195 lbs.

Thanks.

I am interested to hear other's responses too, but in general think a lot of this crowd probably sets the dins much higher than you are thinking. I guess I am just easy on gear, but I have not prereleased in years with a din at 10. Typically shops will set you up in a good spot for most, and some will chose to go higher, but I am not sure that going lower would really be that advisable. What kind of skiier, weight, skis, terrrain, etc...?

Alembical

edited to add: I see your weight and am just kind of curious what the din is currently set at? Some people will gradually lower the din over time and if you don't have issues prereleasing, leave it there. I kind of think a prerelease anywhere would be bad news... not just in crazy no-fall kind of terrain.

Having tweaked my knee 2 weeks ago, I'm lowering my DIN a bit. Having said that I doubt it would have made any difference in my case, but I'd say it's better to come out of your skis than ruin your knees.

After not releasing last year and blew my left ACL, I took my DIN from 9s on both to 5 front, 6 back. Then did a butt of fist to the side of the boot test to get a feel for the release off the toe.

Sorry, this was a process. Took to 8s, not releasing good enough for me, the 7s, then 6s and found 5 on my toe to be it.

Though mine is not a true DIN on Freerides, it is similar.

5'9", 170 lbs. Rate myself Intermediate. That is why I board, I do it better.

I believe in using a constant din, front and back. Let the binding work as it was designed to. The key is to get the forward pressure right. This'll give you the best release/retention balance, at your correct din setting, than over tightening the heal will ever do.

Originally Posted by alembical

Typically shops will set you up in a good spot for most, and some will chose to go higher,

Wrong! Shops are REQUIRED to set your DIN according to your weight, height, BSL, age, and ability.




Type II and III skiers are set into the next higher (move down the column) DIN respectively.

Ages 9 and under and 50 and up are are set into the next lower (move up the column) DIN

Example: I'm 6'2" 190lbs and have a BSL of 325. I'm 28 and am a type III skier. I'm an N8.5. If I were a type II I'd be an M7 (according to the above chart)

Ashean,
The point I was trying to make was just that the shops are more likely to err setting the din lower than most people on the forum would prefer, rather than the opposite (for obvious reasons). People turning their din up after a shop set are more common than people setting their din lower. All shops given the same criteria should come to the same din number though.

I have no real personal knowledge and have done no testing on the subject, but I have always heard that bindings are designed to work properly with the forward and rear dins set the same.

Alembical

Originally Posted by AsheanMT

Wrong! Shops are REQUIRED to set your DIN according to your weight, height, BSL, age, and ability.

In Europe last year I got a mount done and was chatting to the shop guy while he set up the binding to my boot. I saw he was changing the DIN so I said I wanted it set 3 higher than the chart says I should have and he had no problem doing it. I can imagine US stores refusing to do that, though.

On my last shop mount they needed both boots and did pressure release tests to fine-set the DIN (WC ski service, Bellevue WA). This resulted in slightly different DIN settings (~9.5 to 10.0) between the toe/heal dependent on the same force needed to dislodge the boot at my weight and ability and BSL.

Originally Posted by Toby

In Europe last year I got a mount done and was chatting to the shop guy while he set up the binding to my boot. I saw he was changing the DIN so I said I wanted it set 3 higher than the chart says I should have and he had no problem doing it. I can imagine US stores refusing to do that, though.

Its the whole liability issue. In our "sue happy" culture the binding manufactures want the techs to be "Certified" to work on their bindings and every time we work on somebody's bindings we have to document and sign everything we do in case somebody tries to sue us or the manufacturer for blowing their knee out.

On that note, I know that Markers get lots of shit here and I've never even owned a pair but they consistently test out correctly, more so then any other binding I've tested. Old Markers or new markers...it doesn't matter. Everytime I test em they test perfectly within range of the release values. That being said, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ATOMIC BINDINGS!!!

Originally Posted by Mofro261

On my last shop mount they needed both boots and did pressure release tests to fine-set the DIN (WC ski service, Bellevue WA). This resulted in slightly different DIN settings (~9.5 to 10.0) between the toe/heal dependent on the same force needed to dislodge the boot at my weight and ability and BSL.

Yup, if your binding doesn't test out correctly within its specified DIN setting the tech is allowed to adjust +/- up to 2 DIN to make it test correctly. If the binding doesn't test right after that then its gets FAILED and the shop will not sign for its ability to release properly.

Wrong! Shops are REQUIRED to set your DIN according to your weight, height, BSL, age, and ability.

i usually just tell the tech what DIN setting i want then sign a waiver form. thanks for the chart, though...

Originally Posted by jahroy

i usually just tell the tech what DIN setting i want then sign a waiver form. thanks for the chart, though... <br>

If you were really core you wouldn't need the tech. You're welcome JONG.

any ideas about how much a shop will charge to test a binding?

I bought some new skis and bindings and had them mounted for my bsl. I am unsure how to set forward pressure and would have no way to torque test them. Will a local shop do that for me? What about at the rental shop at the resort? Too much liability?

Thanks, Alembical

Originally Posted by alembical

any ideas about how much a shop will charge to test a binding?

I bought some new skis and bindings and had them mounted for my bsl. I am unsure how to set forward pressure and would have no way to torque test them. Will a local shop do that for me? What about at the rental shop at the resort? Too much liability?

Thanks, Alembical

If the shop mounted your bindings they would have already tested it. (usually).

PM me what binding you got and I can tell you what is the correct forward pressure.

Our shop charges $20.00 for an adjust and function check.

I read the fine print at my local shop a few days ago, which mentioned that if customers brought skis back complaining about pre-releases, they could bump the DIN up one or two more chart rows into "Type III+" category - but typically only on the heels. Fix shin-bangers, but save the tibia?

I'm looking forward to see how well the KneeBinding works. Seems like a great idea.

didn't claim to be core.... just pointing out that you can request a DIN if you want. sorry...

The 2 shops I've worked at so far will not set a requested din. And I think will fail it in instances of a 916 where the persons chart din may be lower than capable on the binding. (don't know that for sure.) That being said, I've been to shops that have check boxes for +1, etc over the skier type.
Expect to pay anywhere from 15 to 25 bucks for the adjustment/check.

Originally Posted by AsheanMT

On that note, I know that Markers get lots of shit here and I've never even owned a pair but they consistently test out correctly, more so then any other binding I've tested. Old Markers or new markers...it doesn't matter. Everytime I test em they test perfectly within range of the release values. That being said, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ATOMIC BINDINGS!!!

I'm curious. Do Atomic bindings not torque test out at specification for their DIN rating?

I think this shop/adjustment thing is a total moot point. If you're a good enough skier to know you want a specific DIN outside the charts recommendation I dare say you are a competent enough person spin a screw driver and adjust it yourself....No? So it doesn't really matter what a shop will or won't do.

And yes, I'm curious about the Atomic bindings test too..?

We don't see all that many Atomics at our shop but all 6 of the last 6 that have come in have not tested within the release specs. Not even close. A few of em were the toe's and the others were all heel failures. I tested another one on sunday and the heel was supposed to release between 229Nm and 320Nm and NEITHER HEEL tested past 120Nm. Even when I cranked em up all the way they would still pop out at 120Nm!!!!

All the other ones are similar... either the heel or the toe would fail. Currently we have six pairs of Atomics sitting in our shop waiting to receive a return authorization from Atomic who won't return our multiple calls. I never knew that about atomics but after the past couple of weeks of not having a single damn atomic test out correctly I'm never gonna put em on my feet.

Edit: While searching to see if I was the only one to experience this issue I came across an epic thread about it.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?p=18098

Originally Posted by jerr

I think this shop/adjustment thing is a total moot point. If you're a good enough skier to know you want a specific DIN outside the charts recommendation I dare say you are a competent enough person spin a screw driver and adjust it yourself....No? So it doesn't really matter what a shop will or won't do.

It probably does in litigious America. If you adjust it yourself you're giving up the ability to blame the shop if you injure yourself when the binding doesn't release. If OTOH the shop adjusts it outside the chart range to a value to specify, I'd guess they're still liable??? So you could still sue? This kind of thing's probably very important in the US.

Where did people get the idea that DIN settings have much of anything at all to do with knees?

I accidentally skied with a Geze toe set at 4 the other day for a bunch of runs and never came out. I guess for better or worse I don't put much torque into my bindings. OTOH I come out of heels a lot with my crappy balance.

For me, it makes absolutely no sense to have the same toe and heel settings. Binding settings are a very personal matter.

If you buy the Marker Comp 20.0, then I believe the point is moot. As it starts where Spinal Tap finishes--11.

I always set the DIN on my toe pieces ~3 DIN lower than the heels. Based on my height, weight & BSL the chart has me at 8.5 or 9, which causes me to pre-release the heels in deep snow (I just walk right out of them when I pop out of the bottom of a turn). So I usually keep my toes around 10 and my heels at 13 on my tyrolia's, 10/12 on 12 din sollys and 12/15 on 20 din solly's (toe @ 14 with extra spring removed).

I find that this combo keeps me locked into my bindings, but still allows the toe to release if I get into a nasty twisting fall.