Thread: BD Verdicts vs 188 Bros? (looking for 100mm touring ski)

Hi I am looking to update my quiver with an all round fat touring ski. I currently have the praxis 195 and old pair of dynastar bigs with fritschis.

I have been thinking about either the 188 bros or the 190 black diamond verdicts (I am 6'3'' 205 and ski pretty hard). I plan to mount these with naxo21's. I will be skiing all over the alps and be touring about 30-40% of the time

The reason these 2 skis appeal to me is that they are relatively light but not too soft. I am a little scared of the coomba's for this reason.

How do you think these 2 skis compare? Any other suggestions

thanks.

Since Idris has much more knowledge on this particular comparison, but is traveling to Cham right now, I'll pretty much repeat what he's told me.

According to his comparisons, the verdict is very much like our 179 Bro in terms of shape. That would put it in the 32m range for the radius (that's what the 179 is), but you'd have to check the verdict's stats to confirm. He says the shapes are quite similar. The 188 is now amost our odd ski out - insomuch as we are now basing most of our shapes off the 32m radius of the 179. The 188 is a 40m radius. We can get weight down to 4lbs or under on 188 softs (which aren't that soft) and as a touring ski they rule. The 174s and 183s are based on the 179 shape. Hope that helps.

Light but not too soft? That suggest DPS Wailer 105s.

Originally Posted by pivko

I am a little scared of the coomba's for this reason.

don't be

No BD Verdict experience, but I am your size (6'4,~200), ski very hard and toured E.Sierras on 188 Bro Stiff/Naxo21 last two seasons and have been very pleased. Truly a ski that can do anything (besides serious in-bound bumps). Especially like the edge hold in precarious hard/ice situations for it's width. Due to my size and weight, however, going to be give the Marker Duke binding a try. The Naxo binding slop gets a bit annoying at my height/weight = lots of leverage. Weight difference between Naxo large/Duke large is half a lb = no big deal for one day tours. If you are going to be doing major elevation climbs, multi-day and weight is a concern, you should then consider Dynafit with true light ski to truly appreciate the difference. Bro 179/188 with a Duke binding would IMO be a great side-country/resort/one-day tour rig.

Thanks for noticing that edge hold, Cherry Moon. One of the reasons the 188has that 40m radius is so there would be no springboarding when the ice gets steep in a concave chute and you're counting on every bit of edge contact to hold you on the hill. We put a little shorter radius on the 179, just a bit, but made sure you'd still get the same kind of edge hold. But in a nutshell, we were thinking of that when we designed the Bros.
They're a skier's ski.

Originally Posted by splat

Since Idris has much more knowledge on this particular comparison, but is traveling to Cham right now, I'll pretty much repeat what he's told me.

According to his comparisons, the verdict is very much like our 179 Bro in terms of shape. That would put it in the 32m range for the radius (that's what the 179 is), but you'd have to check the verdict's stats to confirm. He says the shapes are quite similar. The 188 is now amost our odd ski out - insomuch as we are now basing most of our shapes off the 32m radius of the 179. The 188 is a 40m radius. We can get weight down to 4lbs or under on 188 softs (which aren't that soft) and as a touring ski they rule. The 174s and 183s are based on the 179 shape. Hope that helps.

Black Diamond states that the 07/08 Verdict in the 190 has radius of 27m and in the 180 has radius of 26m. I picked up pair of 180's, will be mounting Dukes. I'm 5'9", 150 lbs, ski Alta and surrounding bc. Also looking at the Bro 179 soft. Find me a blem, budget bleaching.

I'm 180x80, and love the 188 bro as a ski, but after some use realized that it's too long for me for touring >1.5-2h and >700m. But you're bigger than me. If you want to do some serious, intense touring (>2h, >1000m) with stiff sticks, I'd certainly say stiff BROs or DPs wailers 105, but most of all dynafits bindings, garmont axon or scarpa spirit 4. Also, I agree that the coomba is not as soft as anticipated.

Thanks for all the input. You guys have just about sold me on the bro's. Ideally I would also like to have a lighter setup (maybe dynafits and coombas) but I will probably have to wait on that for a year. I am in good shape and tour to to ski terrain I can't access from a lift so lugging up a ski that will perform is usually worth it to me.

I guess i need to do a little research on the soft vs stiff 188 bro. I was thinking the soft since it is a little lighter but maybe at my size i am better of with the stiff.

I'm not sure the weight difference would be that big of a deal for someone your size. I've had 188 bro's mounted with naxo's and alpine bindings and they've been great in any situation I can think of.

For a while, I thought my 193 big daddies were great in choppy snow... the 188 stiff bro's are leagues above and beyond. Whether its crud or set up chunks on groomers they just power through it. That makes is seem like the 188's are just big tanks, but they aren't. The flex gives them great pop, the lightweight makes them very maneuverable and the burly construction keeps them in one piece.

I know splat has mentioned sidecut above, I prefer the sidecut of the 188. Something about it lets you absolutely lock onto a carve like a fat GS ski, but break the tails out at any point for the steeps and tight places.

my .02

my current quiver includes im103s and the older/stiffer big daddies, and the 188 bro stiffs.

i have demo'd the foam-core Verdict.

Overall the foam 190 Verdict and the 188 bro stiffs were more similar than diffferent. both were about 8.5 lbs / pr. the low sidecut of the bro makes 'em behave nicely in weird slabby crusty BC conditions. in terms of edgehold on the firm stuff, i'd give a slight advantage to the foam verdict.

the wood core verdict is heavier than foam version. i assume you were only looking at the wood verdict?

xtrapickel's comment about crud busting (Bro vs big daddy) is the direct opposite of what I and my mammoth ski crew concluded. in weird crud / chop, the big daddy / iggy / im103 family of skis allowed us to go faster and smoother than the much lighter (by 2 lbs) bro stiff. and i say that based on countless days on the boards in question in many kinds of sierra snow. in other words, the laws of physics still apply.

that said, for such as light ski, the bro stiff delivers more stiffness and power than the typical light ski. for me it's a quiver ski, my BC ski of choice. In the '8.5 lbs or less, near 100 mm waist, approx 190 cm' category, i've yet to find something better (DPS would be an option).

No experience on a Bro. But I'm nearly your size and made the mistake of buying the 180 verdict. My advice would be to definitely buy the 190. Size matters on this ski. It is a great carving fatty that tours very well. If it were a 190 It would be my quiver of one.

I have a 190 veridct (last years brand new) for sale in gear swap.