Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners

[JayBruce]

hey now! grabbed a pair of FT First Chair's. we sell them at the shop. i've never skied in a three piece or Intuition. baked them yesterday and dropped a new 'no post' footbed in with toe cap's and med weight sox. they feel so good in my living room. i'm actually going to use them as my side/backcountry/soft snow boot. anyone touring in these bad larry's? waiting on 'top to bottom' at the local hill to give them a ride. we need snow

I know quite a few people who tour in FT's. They are a really light boot, so its definately not a bad choice at all. There is also a thread somewhere around here where blurred lays out how to mod your FT's with BD tech sole blocks so you can ski dynafits with em.

[bern43]

Bumping this instead of starting a new thread. Just molded some power wraps for my Tecnica Cochise's at my boot fitter a few days ago and have a few questions.

First, I feel like my left top buckle/strap may have been too tight during the molding. Didn't feel overly tight in the shop, but there is a clear imprint where the shell of the boot ends on my right boot. It looks like the foam compressed more on that boot, which resulted in me needing to tighten the top power strap/buckle more. It's on the right boot too, but not nearly as bad. There is also a crease where the overlap starts. Looks like the liner got caught in the shell. Is this fairly normal? I probably need to re-bake is my guess.

Here's some pics.







Second, what's the usual time frame for break in? These things are like vices on my feet. Toe caps and extra padding for my high instep were used but I barely made it through the day. I'm hoping all I need is a few miserable days and I'll be good.

[matt]

Just wanted to note that I did the the boiling water method on a used pair of intuitions. Used an oven bag and put the boiling water in the boot for ~9 minutes. Worked like a charm. This is my first pair of intuitions and they were used and already formed to the shell on the outside of the liner so Im not sure how it would work on a new pair.

[Kim Jong-un]

Bern43,

What's worked for me...

You should have only buckled the buckles slightly firm when molding the liner. Never buckle it up like you would when skiing (ie if you are on the 3rd notch skiing, then I would think you might be on the 1st notch when the liner is puffed up and molding. I do not retighten buckles until the liner is 100% cooled down. Also, don't keep flexing the boot while the liner is cooling. One flex to set the heel and that's it.

Assuming the strap indentation is just from overtightening the strap and not over buckling or over flexing, I would not rebake the liner just for that strap indentation. You could heat it locally and it will expand out if it bothers you.

Re the second issue. Post bake, the liners should very comfortable. They do pack out and get more comfortable after a bit, but you shouldn't need to break them in like a regular liner.

[bern43]

I think that top strap/buckle on the Cochises is what messed me up. It's sort of hard to figure out exactly how tight it will end up if you're not used to it. I'll probably spot heat that area to get some volume back as well as the crease area. Any tips for spot heating? Heat gun vs. hair dryer?

[Kim Jong-un]

I think that top strap/buckle on the Cochises is what messed me up. It's sort of hard to figure out exactly how tight it will end up if you're not used to it. I'll probably spot heat that area to get some volume back as well as the crease area. Any tips for spot heating? Heat gun vs. hair dryer?

I don't trust myself with a heat gun--too easy to really fuck it up. The hair dryer is not ideal either.

I've spot reheated my liners holding a rice sack with an oven mitt, or for larger areas heat the oven up to 225, wrap the part of the boot you don't want to heat with damp towels that have been soaked with cold water leaving the area to be rebaked exposed.

IMO unless the shin is not fitting correctly, I would not worry about that bump.

[Ivan Oder]

I recently put a pair of PW in my Bushwackers. Did the hot rice method, had to do the whole boots twice and then a third time in the toebox of the right boot because my feet are differently sized since I broke a few toes on the right.

The tightest I did the top buckle was 3 and a half on the scale that's printed on the strap.

Also there is some funkiness with the shell and where the Power Wrap starts to overlap itself just where the toebox starts. It's very easy to get a piece of the liner wedged / folded between the shell parts and this will continue to be a PITA as you put them on and take them off, but it's worth it.

You have to be extra careful to make sure things are in the right order when the liner is all hot and mushy, before you crank down the buckles use the pull tabs and stomp your heel a few times to help remove folds, double check that all parts of the liner are under all parts of the shell before cranking down.

Edit: Mine were tight as hell the first time I molded them and cut off circulation to my feet with thin race socks on and the buckles undone. I decided to mold them again with a thicker snowboard type sock rather than the nylon one they give you and it worked out okay. YMMV. Try a thinner sock before you decide they're too tight and don't mold them again unless you have to. This could mean replacing your sock collection with race socks, but that's good, not bad.

[flyman683]

Followed the oven instructions - nice and easy although it was a wide opening AT boot.

My larger left foot came out great but the smaller right is a bit loose in the heel. Thinking of trying a shim or padding over top the ankle for volume and doing a rice bag job on the heel pocket just for that one.

Silicon spray was a nice help (and useful to keep the dukes/barons sliding nicely)

Sent from my MB860 using TGR Forums

[Mailman]

After a bunch of research, I came away thinking that the oven method likely gets the best results, but the rice method is easier and less fuck-upable. Given that I was doing my Power Wraps in a Manhattan apartment on a week day mornign with no one around to help, rice molding seemed like the better option.

I watched the video tutorials that Intuition has posted on YouTube, re-read the instructions a few times, and had at it. My only variation to the Intuition recommended approach was that I taped my Instaprint footbeds to my foot before I put on the toe cap and fitting sock. Everything went very smoothly, other than the foot bed shifting slightly on my right foot - it was likely only a fraction of an inch off, but I wound up re-molding to get it perfect.

After finishing, trying on the boots with my regular ski socks to make sure everything felt OK, and letting them cool, I pulled the liners to take a look. The impressions of my foot contours were obvious in the liners and the proces seemed to have worked as advertised. My biggest concern was that heating the liners using the rice-method wouldn't mold as effectively to my feet as the oven method, but I really couldn't see how the result could have been better.

I've only skied them one day (thank you, warm and dry December) and things didn't start out too well. Two runs in I headed to the lodge with my feet absolutely screaming. I undid all the buckles, but didn't take off the boots, and felt better very quickly. Being an idiot, I had cranked the buckles to approximately where I had them pre-Intuitions, adn somehow managed to ignore the fact that they take up a lot more volume than the stock liners (Dalbello Surges with a couple of seasons on them). After giving my feet a few minutes to recover, I let the buckles out a notch or two, and had no issues for the rest of the day. My feet were very comfortable and very warm (it was 30* out so I wouldn't expect them to be cold though).

The boots had a significantly different feeling with the Intuition wraps compared to the stock tongue liners. They definitely stiffened the boots up a bit, and were much less sloppy in terms of transferring movement into ski response.

With one day on them, two thumbs up from me for Intuition Power Wraps.

[Ivan Oder]

Mailman I had a similar experience, I have the blue InstaPrint footbeds as well. I used some wide medical tape and strapped it to my foot at the arch and the toes and a few more vertical strips at the heel.

The instructions tell you to buckle your boots as you normally would. If you do that, then you'll get a super tight fit. I think that's why I had to mold mine twice.

After the first mold, I took the footbeds out and it was much more comfortable, but I couldn't see skiing without them.

[Esses]

Bern43,

You should have only buckled the buckles slightly firm when molding the liner. Never buckle it up like you would when skiing (ie if you are on the 3rd notch skiing, then I would think you might be on the 1st notch when the liner is puffed up and molding. I do not retighten buckles until the liner is 100% cooled down. Also, don't keep flexing the boot while the liner is cooling. One flex to set the heel and that's it.

I just got a pair of powerwraps for my BD Factors. I was about to do the oven bake method per Yoopers directions last night, but thought I 'd do a test run with the liners before I heated them, just to see what problems to anticipate. The PWs are way higher volume than the crappy stock liners and I know not to judge the fit of these before baking, but, Damn! The instep buckle is really tight! I mean like excruciatingly painful tight. I have to back the buckle all the way out and put it on the first notch to get it to even buckle the boots and it's still pretty ridiculous.

Will it squish to fit when I do bake and buckle? Maybe I should I bake them with that buckle undone? The thing is, that since that buckle is so tight, the rest of the shell becomes tighter and the buckles are probably set tighter than what would be ideal for fitting.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Ivan Oder]

I just got a pair of powerwraps for my BD Factors. I was about to do the oven bake method per Yoopers directions last night, but thought I 'd do a test run with the liners before I heated them, just to see what problems to anticipate. The PWs are way higher volume than the crappy stock liners and I know not to judge the fit of these before baking, but, Damn! The instep buckle is really tight! I mean like excruciatingly painful tight. I have to back the buckle all the way out and put it on the first notch to get it to even buckle the boots and it's still pretty ridiculous.

Will it squish to fit when I do bake and buckle? Maybe I should I bake them with that buckle undone? The thing is, that since that buckle is so tight, the rest of the shell becomes tighter and the buckles are probably set tighter than what would be ideal for fitting.

Any advice would be appreciated.

The logic with tightness and molding liners is somewhat counter-intuitive.

If you bake them with the tight buckles undone, they will be tight because the foam is heated and then not compressed and maintains it's original fat thick shape.
If you crank the bejesus out of the buckles, it compresses the heated foam and the foam stays that way, ie, takes up less volume in the boot and is not as tight.

You just have to put up with excruciating foot pain for a few minutes.

[Alec Chalmers]

I bought a pair of Power Wraps for my older Salomon 1080's and don't see how the buckle system on this shell will work with these liners. Out of the box inserted into the shell with me standing, the 2 buckles on the cuff of the boot don't look like they would ever engage. Anyone else run into this?

[johngenx]

I replaced my POS OE liners from my Garmont MegaRides with Intuition overlaps, and holy shit, did I have trouble buckling the boots to cook the liners. I had to get my fitter to help and with the two of us (and he's a big dude) we could just get the instep buckle to latch. After cooking, I could buckle the boots on my own, but the instep buckle is still backed out all the way and only latches on the first rung of the ladder. The cuff buckles took some doing to hook on the bake, but post-bake are not bad.

In the end, it was worth every minute of fitting. The boots are super comfy, warm, and are 100x better than with the OE liners...

[Esses]

So I mold those PWs to Factors this weekend and it came out pretty good. I think they are a bit tight, especially in that instep area so I'm thinking I'll use a bit thicker sock and tighten that buckle more.

The seam that goes around the bottom of the liner is pretty distorted in my left boot, though. Does that really matter? I'm wondering if reheating them is a complete reset or does the liner maintain some of it's shape for the previous mold?

[bern43]

/\/\ If you re-bake them the liner won't retain any of its previous shape. It will also lose a tiny bit of volume (at least mine did). Bottom seam shouldn't really matter. My boots killed the first day, 2nd day they're a bit better. Actually made it through the day without having to take them off. YMMV.

[Wild4umlauts]

I actually like my Intuition liners more after at least a 2nd bake (if not a 3rd). The foam becomes more dense (though you're probably losing some warmth as the foam loses air).

IME, re-heating is NOT a full reset (not even when doing 250*F for 10 minutes). They do retain some of their shape from the previous fitting. I especially know this from my early days of heat fitting when trying to fix problems during follow-up re-heats. It was hard to get some of the fuck-ups out of the liner.

[TWINS]

Mailman I had a similar experience, I have the blue InstaPrint footbeds as well. I used some wide medical tape and strapped it to my foot at the arch and the toes and a few more vertical strips at the heel.

I have the blue instaprints also.I put 1 ultrathin ski sock on.Then the Instaprint.Then another ultrathin ski sock over it.Holds the footbed in place without any fit issues.I use regular ski socks during the day.The good thing about the second sock is that you can set any pads you need on top of the first sock,pull the second sock on and make sure everything is in place.Makes molding really easy.

[XtrPickels]

Oven is by far the way to go.
I've used a heat gun to do touch ups with no issues. I used foil to cover areas I didn't want to heat and kept the gun moving. Eventually you'll feel the liner soften to the gooey goodness.

If you have problem areas, such as the top of my instep, go ahead a crank the shit out of those buckles while molding
(or use additional padding in that area).

Probably the one buckle you don't want to over tighten is the lower cuff buckle... gotta keep that heel pocket nice and tight.

[Esses]

Remolded mine last night. I cranked down that problem instep buckle, used a slightly thicker sock and the problem is solved. They are tight and will probably hurt a bit the first day, but I think they'll end up perfect.

Two things I'd clarify/confirm...

- You can crank the buckles down pretty tight when molding. I probably could've gone a bit tighter. Maybe one notch tighter from your normal setting would be good, but be careful in the cuff to retain a good heel pocket.
- The liner doesn't puff up quite as much on the second molding. This made it easier for me to get the overlap situated before buckling everything up.

[hooked]

I just baked my first set of liners this afternoon. Hurt like a mutherfucker and I figured I screwed things up. I just put the boots back on after giving my feet a couple hours of relief and I'm a believer.

Thanks for the tutorial, the process worked perfectly.

[el duderino]

There's another thread specific to the boiling water method, but since this thread is a bit more active, I'm curious who has experience using that method and comparisons to the diy bake or even the Intuition shop blower equivalent.

My use case would be Krypton ID's, is it safe to assume the liner is already somewhat molded to the shell shape?

Thanks!

[Gobig21]

There's another thread specific to the boiling water method, but since this thread is a bit more active, I'm curious who has experience using that method and comparisons to the diy bake or even the Intuition shop blower equivalent.

My use case would be Krypton ID's, is it safe to assume the liner is already somewhat molded to the shell shape?

Thanks!

I just baked a set of new power wraps in my oven along with a set of ride snowboard wrap intuitions on their second bake. The liners will puff up and loose the characteristics of their previous mold. When using the oven method it is crucial that you pull up on the back of the liner while slamming your heel down-creates a money heel pocket and takes care of any creases you may have made sliding the liner into the shell. My pws molded up perfectly to my foot and the shell of my flexon, and fit like a glove, so did the snowboard ones. I have id gold liners as well, they come pre molded to the shell shape of the krypton. I used the blower stack at my shop to mold my dalbello intuitions due to this. They held their original mold shape and molded to my foot perfectly. Fwiw i followed all other procedures while moulding the dalbello liners(toe cap, thin sock, etc...)

[el duderino]

I just baked a set of new power wraps in my oven along with a set of ride snowboard wrap intuitions on their second bake. The liners will puff up and loose the characteristics of their previous mold. When using the oven method it is crucial that you pull up on the back of the liner while slamming your heel down-creates a money heel pocket and takes care of any creases you may have made sliding the liner into the shell. My pws molded up perfectly to my foot and the shell of my flexon, and fit like a glove, so did the snowboard ones. I have id gold liners as well, they come pre molded to the shell shape of the krypton. I used the blower stack at my shop to mold my dalbello intuitions due to this. They held their original mold shape and molded to my foot perfectly. Fwiw i followed all other procedures while moulding the dalbello liners(toe cap, thin sock, etc...)

Thanks for the Krytpon info. Good to know the liners are already molded to the shells as suspected.

Now...find a shop with a blower and hopefully someone who knows how to use it, rice method, or boiling water method??

[wooley12]

Or find a shop with a blower or oven and tell them how you want them to do it.