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  1. #76
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    Yea, I searched and found a thread about that.
    Thanks, though.

    One other thing; Intuition really seems to feel that footbeds are unnecessary with these.
    I'm using a snug shell fit and am concerned with interior space.
    Obviously, not using footbeds would help that significantly.
    Has anyone here tried using Intuitions sans footbeds?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

  2. #77
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    Dec 2002
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    Uptown
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    I run my intuition plus sans footbeds, to great sucess.

    Better than bag o rice or oven is to use an adjustable heat gun set at 112 from the hardware store.

    Frankly, I've had no problems with wrinkles just putting the liner in and making sure it was seated well before sticking my foot in. The folks at intuition do it that way, and it seems to work just fine.
    Living vicariously through myself.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Denver, CO
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    409
    On the footbed thing - it's been discussed a lot, but I guess if you don't have any major problems with your feet and have a fairly tight shell fit then going sans footbed should work out. For me since I pronate, my ankles "crash" into the inside (medial) side of the shells unless I have a footbed that corrects for this.

    For toe caps I picked up some cheap thick neoprene scuba booties that work great. I just chopped off the toe section so that only my toes are covered (doesn't go anywhere near the ball of my foot). I've found that the '"official" toe caps most shops use in fitting cover more of your foot than necessary. You just want toe wiggle room for warmth and comfort. If it starts getting past that then you may lose some degree of control if your forefoot is looser.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Cruzing
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    I have my Intuitions and Garmont Mega Rides ready to go. I am still figuring out how to pry them open, but it does not seem to make much of a difference.

    I was size for a 8 liner in a 26.5 boot. Seems pretty snug and similiar in size to my current liner, just thicker.

    Here is my question:
    How will I get these things into the shell when hot???

    I have slid them in cool, with the shell as pried as it can get, and it barely slids in there. In fact, when I do slip it in and during the process a dimple forms in the heel. This pops back out almost instantly, but I am afraid that when it is warm, this will crinkle. Is that the case?

    Has anyone molded for the Mega Ride before at home? If so, what was your method for avoiding this.

    Also - I am wondering about the foot bed thing. I currently have a cheapo Surefoot in these boots. I find I need that arch suppport for touring, otherwise my foot hurts. Will the liner absolve the need for a Surefoot? I would not consider that a foot bed really, so, curious.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    new mexico
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    115

    spot heating for a crease on cuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by justcuz View Post
    Oh, one more thing....
    If you do get a crease, which typically happens right on the top of the foot, I've seen people use a little localized heat on that area and get rid of it. Probably not recommended, but it's better than re-doing the whole thing.
    Long story short, I have a pretty good sized crease on the outside of one powerwrap that is not allowing the liner to fully wrap across my shin. Pretty sure this is what is causing me some undue shin pain. Any ideas on getting it out? I was thinking of putting the one boot back on the gun thing at the shop, but dropping a hot bag o rice on it and working it seems like it could work also. Anyone else have this problem, successfully solved it, and care to share your method?

  6. #81
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    Slut Lake City
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Here is my question:
    How will I get these things into the shell when hot???
    The heatstack (or whatever it's called) heating method, where the liner is heated in the boot, sounds like the way to go for your situation.
    vapor lock - bitch.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Driving2VT
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    1,632
    Mrs. Doremite will be subjected shortly. Will report back if anything to add. Thanks to all here for the advice. Yooper's effort standing the test of time and trial.
    Uno mas

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    MT
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    Discovered yesterday that spraying the inside of the shell with some Pam non-stick spray, in particular the back off the cuff, really helps the liner slide in. This of course assumes you are doing the foot in liner and then into the shell method.

    Extra points for butter flavored spray.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4
    Great work guys! The make shift boot spreaders are awesome!
    I remember the old thermal Flex liners 15 years ago? Hahaha in New Zealand we started using Panty Hose in the process. Really, We would heat the liners, Put the bed in the liner, Toe cap it, Hold the liner wrap while we would stretch panty hose over the entire thing to insure even pressure before we inserted the assembly in the boot!

  10. #85
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Uptown
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    Quote Originally Posted by changodeoro View Post
    Long story short, I have a pretty good sized crease on the outside of one powerwrap that is not allowing the liner to fully wrap across my shin. Pretty sure this is what is causing me some undue shin pain. Any ideas on getting it out? I was thinking of putting the one boot back on the gun thing at the shop, but dropping a hot bag o rice on it and working it seems like it could work also. Anyone else have this problem, successfully solved it, and care to share your method?
    That particular problem, no, but I have used the heat gun and stretching on tight spots.
    Living vicariously through myself.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4
    Another thought for thermal Liners that have cushioning below the foot. The soft foam can greatly hinder custom footbed function. Just a few MM of soft foam underlying the footbed can force compression set that dismantles alignment in the boot during molding process. Also underlying foam will introduce excessive ankle rotation during skiing and especially Tele & snowboarding.
    Within just a few days of skiing, Excessive ankle rotation most often leads to performance loss due to rapid pack out of your foam liners.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4
    Last, Many shops have tried to combat alignment issues with these liners.
    The most interesting one I have seen was to pull out the liner and put the custom footbed directly on the boot board. Heat the liner and mold it ON TOP of the custom footbed.
    Essentially the Liner becomes a TOP SHEET to the footbed. This solves the footbed offset issue, But there is still excessive foam interfacing the foot itself. People dont realize, But just a few mm of foot distortion amplifies ankle rotation, HELLO LINER PACK OUT! The footbed under the liner is favored by many snowboarders and Telemark skiers. If you try this, Be certain to anchor the heel of the insole with a loop of duct tape, this will insure the insole remains in place when you insert the heated liner into the shell. STill not Ideal, But definatly keeps the insole function stable.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Hay View Post
    Last, Many shops have tried to combat alignment issues with these liners.
    The most interesting one I have seen was to pull out the liner and put the custom footbed directly on the boot board. Heat the liner and mold it ON TOP of the custom footbed.
    Essentially the Liner becomes a TOP SHEET to the footbed. This solves the footbed offset issue, But there is still excessive foam interfacing the foot itself. People dont realize, But just a few mm of foot distortion amplifies ankle rotation, HELLO LINER PACK OUT! The footbed under the liner is favored by many snowboarders and Telemark skiers. If you try this, Be certain to anchor the heel of the insole with a loop of duct tape, this will insure the insole remains in place when you insert the heated liner into the shell. STill not Ideal, But definatly keeps the insole function stable.
    How would you anchor the footbed in place?
    The boot shell floor is substantially larger than your footbed.
    You'd probably have 1/4"-1/2" of clearance on all sides for it to slide around to.
    A strip of duct tape isn't going to do much to keep it in place, especially as you work your liner in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4
    You are right,
    The void is much greater than the bed.
    But once the liner takes the footbed contour, The Molded Liner holds it perfectly in place, I have never seen one shift.

    For several years We had Xgame & Olympic snowboarders ride boots fitted with the insole Under the liner. Not Ideal, But it delivered decent performance results.
    Now we engineered the insole with a grid that eliminates most of the excessive cushioning issues within these types of liners. The performance results exceeded all our expectations. Some people still like to ride with the insole under the liner, But the best power transfer comes from having the new grid lock insole inside the liner.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    sfbay
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    Thanks for the tutorial - I've now used it for two pairs of liners with great success.

    I upgraded my Titans last night with intuitions, and I decided to try footbeds inside the liners, since the titan footbed is deeply grooved and looked like it would be very likely to cause the liners to pack out over time.

    I bought Sole thermo-formable footbeds, and cooked them at the same time as the liners. I took them out a minute early and prepped my foot with a toecap, the footbeds, and a nylon stocking. It worked great, and now I have liners and footbeds formed to my foot.

    Only time will tell if this will be successful strategy or not, but my foot feels really locked in and comfortable at the same time.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by jondrums View Post
    Thanks for the tutorial
    2X
    I just did a recook on a pair of PW I bought used.
    Copied your spreader:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Worked perfect. Used a little silicone spray and slid right in.
    I picked up a couple Intuition toe box spacers.
    Was worried cause it felt like my toes were curled up throughout the whole process.
    When done the fit was perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Mt Baldys shoes
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    2,038
    Added 2 more hooks on your speader.Thanks again for starting this post.
    Beers for you if we cross paths Yooper.
    Went ghetto with the bailing wire.


  18. #93
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    Jan 2008
    Location
    Middlebury, VT
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    If a crease is not too bad, you can try to work it out with spot heating. Similarly, you can work on problem fit areas by spot heating if the rest of the fit is good.

    Another suggestion is to place your footbed underneath the liner, rather than mold it inside. This ensures that the footbed is stable in the boot, not getting molded off-axis or sitting on foam that can move. Added bonus is a warmer feel, since the foam is in contact with your whole foot.

    Generally, a great post. Essentially the same way we molded them in our shop. I have used both plastic bags and silicone spray to eliminate creasing, but it is just as important to be careful as you move your foot into the shell. Having a helper is a really good idea for this part.

    Lastly, be sure not to pull up too hard on the top of the liner when sliding into the shell, you can end up with really tall liners....

    Happy cooking!

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWINS View Post
    Added 2 more hooks on your speader.Thanks again for starting this post.
    Beers for you if we cross paths Yooper.
    Went ghetto with the bailing wire.

    Damn, that's an expensive boot spreader

    AND it's backcountry approved
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    above sea level
    Posts
    52

    another spot-remolding quesiton

    Thanks for the great tutorial! I followed the instructions and got an almost perfect fit. But I don't think I used enough toe cap because my toes are crunched. The shell fit is tight, but with my previous liners (professionally molded) I had enough toe room so I know that better results are possible. The otherwise good fit and lack of wrinkles was probably more luck than skill and I don't want to tempt fate by re-cooking the whole liner. So here's what I'm thinking,

    1. cover the liners with a couple layers of tinfoil leaving the toes exposed
    2. put em in to the convection oven for 5 min, at the same time heating up a beanbag full of [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170547"]rice[/ame] in the microwave
    3. remove tinfoil, put liners into shells, stuff rice beanbag into toe, stuff newspaper behind beanbag, let it sit with the toes pointing down for 5 min.
    4. take all that crap out and put my heavily toe-capped foot in
    5. stand with a 2x4 under the heel to push my toes forward
    6. beer


    How's that sound? Suggestions? Thanks!

  21. #96
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    Nov 2005
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    Maybe try a heat gun on the toe area of the liner only.Then remold with more volume in your toe area.
    I used some weatherstripping to get volume with my mold.Worked great.Don`t worry about the feeling of tightness.Mine felt tight as hell while molding but now I can wiggle them with a normal weight ski sock.
    The complete setup consisting of 3 athletic sock toe caps/orthotic/2 ultrathin ski socks and padding on a pressure point on my foot.
    Last edited by TWINS; 01-26-2010 at 11:11 PM.

  22. #97
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    Jan 2005
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    above sea level
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    Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, while I have a microwave, convection oven, and rice, I don't have a heat gun.

  23. #98
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    One thing I'd strongly suggest is to call Intuition and order their fit kit.
    It can't be that much $.
    Their toe cap works so much better than extra cut off socks because it won't compress during the molding process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    124
    Any thoughts on use of a convection oven...set oven to 220 instead of 240, etc. I think I read this somewhere else I the thread.
    Keep it crunched

  25. #100
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Denver, CO
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    409
    Convection is the type of oven the dealers originally used (and many still do) before jumping on the use of heat stacks. Supposedly convection works better than a standard oven since the heat distribution is more uniform. I've never had any problems though using a standard oven that's pre-heated very well and 3 layers of foil on the rack.

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