Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners

[seldon]

Great tutorial!

Anyone got a link to an online (US/Can) store where I can order some please? Do the factory sell direct?

TIA

Search and ye shall find, JONG.

[Mdemon2]

Search and ye shall find, JONG.

Ooooh! Why didn't I think of that???!

EDIT: OK, you meant on here. Fair one.

[BODOMINO]

I gotta say, everything that I have read and heard about Intuition encouraged me buy a pair of their liners for my Technica Icon Alu boots. They arrived in the mail and I was a little worried that they were going to be too small (my toes were cramped and the liner didn't overlap when I put my foot in them, mind you this was before I put them in my oven). I was also worried since the Intuition Alpine liner was a size 10.0 and my old Technica liner was a 10.5. A little background - my boot shell is a size 27.5/9.5/321mm and I use a custom foot bed (size 10).

Well, all of these worries came to an end after I heated the liners, followed ALL of Yoopers advice from this thread, and endured the 10 minutes of heat and PAIN with my foot feeling like it was in a sardine can. I can honestly say that these liners makes even the most uncomfortable boot feel like your totally Dr. Sholl's GELLIN' (yea, I really went there....)

So, if you are still questioning whether or not to get a pair of these liners after reading this post, then question your sanity and go find a DE .50 caliber and do yourself the favor. They will make your days on the slope 100% better (as will thrashing a hill of moguls down the lift line).

BO-D

[pfbz]

Great thread and great information. I'm still trying to get my boot/liners to work for me.

I had my intuitions molded by a reputable bootfitter in WP.

1. Confirm shell fit of boot
2. Heat liners in convection oven
3. Heat boot shells seperately on blower type heater
4. Prep foot: Foot on custom footbed. Toe cap over footbed and foot. Foot in thin plastic bag. NO SOCK
5. Take liner out of oven, take boot off heater.
6. Put foot/footbed/toecap/bag combo into liner.
7. Put another plastic bag over liner
8. Slide combo in to boot pried apart by hand
9. Pull up hard on back of liner to form heal pocket, repeat, repeat.
10. Make sure liner is properly wrapped with tounge of shell
11. Buckle medium
12. Flex to push heal farther into heal pocket.
13. Stand on incline ramp
14. wait, wait, wait.
15. repeat with other foot

After my first day of skiing, control was great, but my feet started to *really* hurt. Like unwearable after a few hours. I think I was being pinched width wise across the widest part of my foot, and my big toe was being pushed back (too short).

Some thoughts:

• Barefoot maybe didn't give me enough extra room?
• Wonder if I should skip the footbed for next try?

Also, Intuition told me that they now recommend heating the liner *in* the shell with a tube-type heater. They no longer recommend the shell-out/convection-oven method. i got the impression that this was to resolve the wrinkle problem.

I'm wondering if I could try and do the same thing in my ome convection item? Especially now that the liners are kinda sorta fit to the boots and my foot. Here's my thought:

1. Heat the whole shebang in a home convection oven, 240 degrees for about 15 minutes. Surely the shells can handle this heat? Footbeds?
2. Put toecap on foot, sock on foot (thicker this time), foot in plastic bag.
3. Remove boots, slide into boots, pull heal, buckle, raise toe, wait.

Any thoughts or ideas? it would be appreciated!

[yooper]

Don't put your frickin shells in the oven.

Do it over again following my directions. If you don't have a boot spreader device of some sort, get at least two people to help hold the shell open. That is absolutely the key to avoiding wrinkles. Make sure you are fully satisfied that you like the way the liner is in there before you release the shell to close.

Definitely use socks this time. They don't even have to be overly thin socks.

Don't use plastic bags... What the hell would you need that for?

[covert]

Don't put your frickin shells in the oven.

almost spit my coffee on the computer

[salx]

this, and the scarpa youtube movie made me think, why not just use a industry type hot air blower?
esp. when molding them newer tongue style liners, i am getting.
should work the same as the scarpa blower.
and the liners can stay in the shell, makes everything easier.

any ideas?

No matter how many times I asked over Thanksgiving weekend, my mother refused her to let her oven be used for cooking anything other then food. So, I had to improvise. Being that the house has about 6 hairdryers in it, I had an idea. First off down to the garage, see what kind of card board boxes I could find. To my great surmise I found a nice little box that was about the size of a pair of shoes, what is it for, read on. I quickly assaulted the womens bathroom, and stole all six hair dryers(no one caught me because of my ninja like speed, or maybe it was because I used the back stairs whatever...). I made it out to the shop undetected with my bounty of hair dryers and card board box, and proceeded to make a testing rig, but I had forgot something, a thermometer. So, back inside the house up to the kitchen full of people prepping thanksgiving dinner the next day. I skillfully played off my entry as if I were getting something to drink(if they only knew). Before they knew it I was off with the cooking thermometer in my pocket and no one was the wiser.

My third trip out to the shop, I was finally set(or so I thought). I used a utility knife to cut a hole in the side of the box, I inserted a hair dryer, set it to full and let it blast. The temperature for hair dryer number 1 maxed out at measly 150 degrees. I thought I was doomed, but with tremendous, and un-characteristic optimism I plunged forward. Hair dryer number 2 hit the 200 degrees before the thermal switch killed the power. Hair dryer number three hit 200 degrees also and kept running for 20 minutes. Each hair dryer failed to make it to the specified temp of 240 degrees, it was all over for me, done. Then I got to thinking, well boots are much more insulated then cardboard boxes. Hmmmm, tin-foil has excellent heat shield properties. I raided the extra stores of bulk costco items, and found a large roll of tin-foil, wrapped the box in said tinfoil, and enlarged the hole for the hair dryer to simulate the boots diamater of entry. Hair dryer number three seemed like the most likely candidate, so it was reinserted back into the box. With the thermometer reinserted, and hair dryer on, the temp quickly hit 235 degrees, then 240 and hovered between 240-250 for around 20 minutes before the thermal switch kicked in. Success, in essence I had a boot heater/former thing with little to no cost.

I quickly grabbed my boots, inserted liners, and began to heat boot #1. After about 13 minutes I pulled the hair dryer out, inserted foot(with toecap, and spacers). Made sure no creases or wrinkles occurs, and buckled it up. Followed the rest of the steps from yooper(thanks for the directions). Once boot #1 was cooled, I proceeded to #2. I am happy to report after wearing them today for 2.5 hours doing homework they felt "incredible".

[oneflow]

worked money thanks for the help. mine were also the new liners with the tounge not power wrap type and this worked great

[ut_hucker]

this, and the scarpa youtube movie made me think, why not just use a industry type hot air blower?
esp. when molding them newer tongue style liners, i am getting.
should work the same as the scarpa blower.
and the liners can stay in the shell, makes everything easier.

any ideas?

I thought about doing this with a salomon boot heater too. I don't know if it gets it hot enough though. Ideas?

[samhop]

thanks Yooper
you saved me a lot of fuckin around. your tutorial is fineaskind. I used aluminum gutter hangers cut and bent for the spreader clips they were wide and long enough to go over both the flaps in my nordica s/m 14 tore a rivet out using shorter hook. after heating the liner in the oven for 10 min. at 250F I used an old pressure stocking over hot liner helped with sliding in and made it easyer to keep the seems lind up.
I should have used a wider board.
if anyone wants the other binder let me know it's yours if you pay shipping.

[haydukelives]

i was just getting ready to mold some zipfits. in that process you steam the shell to get the shell to fit the liner as well as the liner to fit the foot.

that makes the shell very flexible for several minutes.

would that help with the intuitions instead of the boot stretcher?

[zombinate]

I thought about doing this with a salomon boot heater too. I don't know if it gets it hot enough though. Ideas?

Generally not hot enough, and really doesn't put the heat in the right place. One of the convection ovens, or the Intuition stack heater should be used. The stack heater works great if you only need to mold a bit, as it won't do much to change the exterior of the liner. With a convection oven, the liner will mold to the shell shape as well (This is why I like the stack for tele boots, with the oven the Intuition foam fills into the baffles... Great).

[ut_hucker]

I heated mine last week in the oven. They really do swell. Mine are really tight at the top of the liner around my calf. Will that loosen up?

[hedgehog]

how close in the molding process are these to the thermex (sp) liners from my kneisel flexons ? when i molded them i just put them in the oven for a little too long actually and they started to deform a little, i was able to shove the insole in there, get them into the boot and they still came out fine.

are the ID liners significantly different in the molding process ?

[flyby]

I redid my flexon liners yesterday night and this morning. thought i would update the thread with some advice.

240 F at 10 minutes is perfect. put the liner(s) in a pan lined with tinfoil and make sure they are not too close to the heating element.

you will not want to do both of your liners at the same time.

check for creases, especially in the heel area. just undo the buckles and stick your hand in there to feel around, if you have a crease you will know and you do not want it there. usually it will be right above the heel.

concentrate on molding the heel pocket. the first five minutes after the liner gets out of the oven are the most important, so concentrate on putting pressure on your heel.

wear thick socks and a toe cap. you will want all the extra room you can get.

molding liners does not make up for a proper bootfitting.

anyways, super easy process if you read through the thread and follow the given advice!

[Wild4umlauts]

I disagree about using thick socks - not if you want a performance fit. As long as you allow the liner to fully cool before you pull your foot it should be fine. I actually use a compression stocking to achieve as tight a fit as possible, but that's not necessary for most people.

Here's my cheat sheet for doing Thermoflex/Intuition type liners:

1. Pre-heat oven to 275 F for at least 10 minutes
2. Lower oven temp to 240 F
3. Place a single liner in the oven on aluminum foil on the middle rack
4. Set timer for 10 minutes
5. Place 2x4 (or something at least 2" thick to stand on) on floor
6. Prep boot shell (move buckles to loosest positions)
7. Place toe cap on foot and cover with tight compression stocking (without footbed)
8. When timer goes off remove liner from the oven and note time on clock
9. Place the footbed in the bottom of the liner and ensure it is lined up properly within the liner (centered, ankle placement)
10. Put foot into liner, stand on bare floor while setting liner wrap (inside goes inside)
11. Put foot and liner into boot shell - hold wrap together in front while inserting
12. Pull up gently on the back of liner to remove any wrinkles and set ankle position
13. Double-check wrap (inside/outside flaps at same height) and place tongue into position (for Flexons)
14. Lightly close buckles in this order - middle, bottom, top
15. Set powerstrap and cinch lightly
16. Step onto 2x4 with toes only and drive heel back and down - hold in place, don't move!
17. Do not bang heel into pocket (creates loose heel pocket)
18. Continue pressing/pushing heel back and down while using small amount of forward flex
19. Do not flex hard in the boot yet
20. After 10 minutes of cooling begin flexing forward a bit while keeping heel down hard in the pocket

After 5 more minutes (15 mins. total since removing from oven) the liner may be removed from
the shell to completely cool (but feel the shell and make sure it's not warm to the touch before removing liner).

Do not slip foot out of liner while it's still in the shell. Remove the liner and foot
together, then slip foot out of liner being careful not to compress any areas of the liner.

Allow the liner to completely cool outside of the shell. Then put everything back together, put on a normal ski sock,
and test the fit.

Repeat for second boot.

Note that I don't recommend putting the footbed on your foot directly as shown in the tutorial as it can be prone to some problems - poor alignment of the liner (seams in the wrong places), footbed shifts on the bottom of the foot during insertion. If your footbed is stiff enough then I recommend putting it in the liner first and making sure everything is lined up right.

Don't pull up too much on the back of the liner when setting the heel pocket. This part is critical to getting rid of any wrinkles that may have formed, but pulling too hard can create a loose heel pocket (depends on how many times the liners have been baked).

I like to set my heel pocket by pushing against a wall on a carpeted floor. My boots don't slip backward and I'm able to push downward and backward with good even pressure to create a great heel pocket. I can't stress enough to NOT bang your heels back in the pocket like you might do when putting on boots.

[dshedd]

Okay, I'm a genius, as I'll be the first to admit...but you've got me beat! Seriously, that's a wonderfully thought out and written tutorial. I've got my right Dalbello Krypton Pro I.D. on right now, making me sweat like a banshee...but the left one is already more comfortable than it ever was before. That was SO easy, I couldn't believe it. Thanks, man!

[GapersGoHome]

Bump because of that group buy...

[PNWbrit]

great thread.

I'm going to put my feet in the oven tonite!

[emr]

Just molded my scarpas. Fit seems spot on, but the true test will be on the hill. Great thread. I pieced together all the information to make it work best for me and my supplies.

[Roxtar]

I disagree about using thick socks - not if you want a performance fit. As long as you allow the liner to fully cool before you pull your foot it should be fine. I actually use a compression stocking to achieve as tight a fit as possible, but that's not necessary for most people.

Here's my cheat sheet for doing Thermoflex/Intuition type liners:

1. Pre-heat oven to 275 F for at least 10 minutes
2. Lower oven temp to 240 F
3. Place a single liner in the oven on aluminum foil on the middle rack
4. Set timer for 10 minutes
5. Place 2x4 (or something at least 2" thick to stand on) on floor
6. Prep boot shell (move buckles to loosest positions)
7. Place toe cap on foot and cover with tight compression stocking (without footbed)
8. When timer goes off remove liner from the oven and note time on clock
9. Place the footbed in the bottom of the liner and ensure it is lined up properly within the liner (centered, ankle placement)
10. Put foot into liner, stand on bare floor while setting liner wrap (inside goes inside)
11. Put foot and liner into boot shell - hold wrap together in front while inserting
12. Pull up gently on the back of liner to remove any wrinkles and set ankle position
13. Double-check wrap (inside/outside flaps at same height) and place tongue into position (for Flexons)
14. Lightly close buckles in this order - middle, bottom, top
15. Set powerstrap and cinch lightly
16. Step onto 2x4 with toes only and drive heel back and down - hold in place, don't move!
17. Do not bang heel into pocket (creates loose heel pocket)
18. Continue pressing/pushing heel back and down while using small amount of forward flex
19. Do not flex hard in the boot yet
20. After 10 minutes of cooling begin flexing forward a bit while keeping heel down hard in the pocket

After 5 more minutes (15 mins. total since removing from oven) the liner may be removed from
the shell to completely cool (but feel the shell and make sure it's not warm to the touch before removing liner).

Do not slip foot out of liner while it's still in the shell. Remove the liner and foot
together, then slip foot out of liner being careful not to compress any areas of the liner.

Allow the liner to completely cool outside of the shell. Then put everything back together, put on a normal ski sock,
and test the fit.

Repeat for second boot.

Note that I don't recommend putting the footbed on your foot directly as shown in the tutorial as it can be prone to some problems - poor alignment of the liner (seams in the wrong places), footbed shifts on the bottom of the foot during insertion. If your footbed is stiff enough then I recommend putting it in the liner first and making sure everything is lined up right.

Don't pull up too much on the back of the liner when setting the heel pocket. This part is critical to getting rid of any wrinkles that may have formed, but pulling too hard can create a loose heel pocket (depends on how many times the liners have been baked).

I like to set my heel pocket by pushing against a wall on a carpeted floor. My boots don't slip backward and I'm able to push downward and backward with good even pressure to create a great heel pocket. I can't stress enough to NOT bang your heels back in the pocket like you might do when putting on boots.

That sounds great but I have one question.
As much deforming, squeezing and pushing as it takes to get the liners in the shells by themselves, I can't imagine trying to get them in with my foot already inside.
Is it really as easy as you make it sound?

[Wild4umlauts]

Roxtar - that really depends on your shells. I have only ever used 3-piece shells (Flexon, Krypton) so that part isn't very difficult. If you're stuck dealing with a 2-piece overlap shell then you'll probably want some help from a bro/brah/bud and/or warming the shells.

I take no responsibility for your shell health, but warming a shell (200 F for about 5-10 minutes) can make a huge difference in getting everything together. Not only will warming the shell make getting in easier, but it will also buy you more time to get everything together and still get a great mold.

Another "old school" trick is to use an thin nylon sock (I stole a pair from my wife) that stretches enough to go around the liner after it's heated. You put your foot into the liner and then put the whole thing into the thin sock to help keep everything together around your foot before insertion. I've found that this method isn't really necessary for me at this point, but some people swear by it (many shops still do it this way).

[Roxtar]

Thanks
On another note, has anyone here tried Intuition's new bag-o-rice method?

[justcuz]

Thanks
On another note, has anyone here tried Intuition's new bag-o-rice method?

Search around a bit.....general consensus is that it doesn't work quite as well. The oven method works well IMO.


A few things I've picked on after doing several pairs.
--Toe Cap: I use small cut up pieces of sock and stuff them in between my toes to spread them out a bit, and put a decently thick toe cap on there to boot. I like room in the toes
--I use a very thin sock that goes over the toe cap AND MY FOOTBED. Some people disagree with this, but it works for me.


People seem to be struggling with spreading the shell. I burrow a couple of friends for an hour and feed them beer. I also use a luke warm hair dryer to heat up the shell so it's a bit more plyable. I put a strip of duct tape down the back inside of the boot too, this smooths out the back of the shell so it's less likely to get hung up on anything as you slide your foot in.


Pull up the liner at the end (not too much!) to get any wrinkles out of the heel. I also run my fingers down the seems of the liners to check for creases.


Lastly, I crank the buckles to somewhere in the middle, but reasonable tight. I guess I don't know why, but I do and it molds well.

[justcuz]

Oh, one more thing....


If you do get a crease, which typically happens right on the top of the foot, I've seen people use a little localized heat on that area and get rid of it. Probably not recommended, but it's better than re-doing the whole thing.