Are the New Freeride Pro's that much stiffer?

[johnnygolucky]

I know they havent been out much but has anyone skied the new Fritschi Pros WHO ALSO HAVE SKIED the Freeride +? I'm skiing Baker, 70% inbounds off piste and 30% day sidecountry trips on some new S7's, small quiver, S7's and some Punishers, and need an AT binding that can take some slander. I always loved the televator/lifter on the FR+ but they also always felt pretty flexy. Really love the burlyness of the Duke/Baron but HATE the televater/lifter and they're a bit heavy. My quary is this. If the new Pro is that much stiffer, I'll be stoked. If not, I'll deal with the Markers. Anyone with some good days on both of these?

[lynchdogger]

Should the Marker Tour F12 be in the mix?

If I was doing 70% inbounds and didn't need a 16 din I'd choose the Baron or the new Baron 13 din.

I personally don't have experience with the Freeride Pro but never liked my Freeride +. FWIW, always felt like I was going to rip the thing off the ski but never did. But as result, felt as though I had to throttle it back.

[huckster989]

I skied baker a few years ago on a FFR+ rossis s5 set up and loved them for an all around binder, I have not skied the new fritschi but I skied the eagle last season and it skied great for a 10 dine at binder I was very pleased. I'm all for saving weight and if your not a big guy I'd stick with the Fritschi and make your slack country runs easier on you so you can enjoy the down more.

But if your a big guy and have energy to burn toss some markers on there

[mortimer]

I personally don't have experience with the Freeride Pro but never liked my Freeride +. FWIW, always felt like I was going to rip the thing off the ski but never did. But as result, felt as though I had to throttle it back.

^^ agreed, fritschi's have always felt a squirrely to me in the toe, even the freeride plus with the "power" plate. i would take a look at the marker f12 if the baron is not an option for you. it sits a little lower to the deck and is a more rigid design than either a naxo or fritschi.

[johnnygolucky]

Should the Marker Tour F12 be in the mix?

If I was doing 70% inbounds and didn't need a 16 din I'd choose the Baron or the new Baron 13 din.

I personally don't have experience with the Freeride Pro but never liked my Freeride +. FWIW, always felt like I was going to rip the thing off the ski but never did. But as result, felt as though I had to throttle it back.

Thats the other question. What the heck is the new Marker F12 like? I've read a few likes and dislikes but obviously no real longevity use yet. Nobody in town is carrying the F12 or Pro yet so I cant even fondle them and ponder. And I agree, I've always felt like that toe on the Freeride+ was going to pop and left me feeling a little iffy on my speed. I guess I'll keep being a slave to the reviews and hopefully someone with some experience on the Pro will stand up.

[johnnygolucky]

^^ agreed, fritschi's have always felt a squirrely to me in the toe, even the freeride plus with the "power" plate. i would take a look at the ft12 if the baron is not an option for you. it sits a little lower to the deck and is a more rigid design than either a naxo or fritschi.

Love the thought of the Dynafit but that means new boots and I just bought some Endorphins last year that I love so I don't think it's for me just yet.
I just checked on BC.com at some info on the new Frits Pro and there is a picture some cat sent in from Argentina of his new Fritschi Pro binding with the toe blown off!!! Not knowing much about the situation or him but disconcerting to say the least!

[mortimer]

Love the thought of the Dynafit but that means new boots and I just bought some Endorphins last year that I love so I don't think it's for me just yet.
I just checked on BC.com at some info on the new Frits Pro and there is a picture some cat sent in from Argentina of his new Fritschi Pro binding with the toe blown off!!! Not knowing much about the situation or him but disconcerting to say the least!

sorry, i was thinking about the new marker tour f12 but typed ft12 for some reason

[hutash]

Since the majority of time will be inbounds, I would go with a solid binder like the baron/ duke. The new climbing bar should help the too short old one. I would rather have the extra weight on the little uphill you do, for the solid performance on the downhill.

Consider a jondrum plate for duke/ baron, and get dynamist when you need new boots in the future.

[johnnygolucky]

Since the majority of time will be inbounds, I would go with a solid binder like the baron/ duke. The new climbing bar should help the too short old one. I would rather have the extra weight on the little uphill you do, for the solid performance on the downhill.

Consider a jondrum plate for duke/ baron, and get dynamist when you need new boots in the future.

I agree hutash. I've been thinking about the new F12 but there really isn't much info on those yet either. Are they as tough as the duke/barron? It is supposedly much lighter than the Duke/Baron so the question is, is it as tough on the downhill and tougher still than the new Freeride Pro? Oh so many questions, so little time.

[kiwinig]

I've had a few days on the F12 lately down here lately, mounted on some sweet Kingswood SMBs, all lift accessed/no touring use tho. I usually tour on old dukes on old BD verdicts or more recently mantras but have previously so most of my comparision is to that but did used to use FR+ on BD havocs too.

From a design/functionality perspective the F12 really is just a lighterweigt Duke. Heel lifter while taller is still a bit tricky to use and the tour/ski mechanism is the same and so when skiing the stiffness /flex feels pretty similar and good too.

However the heel mechanism is lightweight and plasticy, i've had a bunch of pre releases from it and am going to sell these bindings and stick with the dukes! Granted the prereleases have always happened when i've got a bit unbalanced or funky but i'm not talking massive high speed wipeouts or even 10foot drops here... You can probably start to understand what i'm on about if you try them out in a shop, stick a boot in one and its pretty hard to get the boot in and when it does go in the heel makes a weird thunky plastic noise when it locks down, do it again and watch the plastic mechanism rubbing/contacting as it locks and you'll see what I mean i'm sure. they are nowhere near as sturdy as the dukes and I'd say less reliable than the fritchis too (which I did find would sometiems prerelease in thick powder but got around this by cranking up the heel a bit more)

Bottom line is I really don't like the F12s and will stick to the dukes, hell if i was worried about the extra weight i could probably take the hip flask out of my bag or loose a couple of pounds, neither option sounds that fun tho... does anyone want to buy a pair of near new F12s??

Note i'm about 85kg/190lbs, 190cm/6ft4in and have been skiing with both dukes and F12s on about din 10.5

[johnnygolucky]

Thanks for the input on the F12 Kiwi. I have yet to see it in person but man, at almost 2 pounds lighter than the Dukes, somethings going to give. I've never broken a Fritschi and have had many great smiles in the deep with the Freeride+ but have always felt they were a bit "loose" feeling on harder snow. I'm really hoping the new Pro is that much stiffer, at least a more secure stable feeling, otherwise I guess I'm back to the Baron/Duke.

[Sinecure]

As someone who bent/broke the toe of a brand new FR+ last season, I've been looking at the F10 or F12. I'm about 5'10" and 190lbs. Usually set DIN around 9. I find the FR+ WAY too flexible in the toe for my liking. On my Lhasas it feels like I have to tilt my leg over about 20 degrees before the ski begins to engage and tilt up. Last season I bent the main toe screw on one while skiing steep boilerplate. BD replaced the toe piece, but I'm really sketched about continuing to use them because of the piss-poor hard-pack performance. 90+% of my skiing is on softer snow, but if I climb to the top of a couloir or find myself on some groomed hard stuff, I need my skis to perform.

I have 1st gen Dukes on some skinnier and some fatter skis. But they're so f'ing heavy that carrying them on my shoulder/back is a nuisance. That's why I tried the FR+. I've had Dynafiddles too, but never liked them because of all the pre-releases, insta-teles and fiddling with the fucking pins.

I'm seriously considering selling one or both pair of Dukes that I have and replacing with either F10 or F12s. I don't huck stuff any more and my body is too brittle to need high DIN settings on heels. I'm hoping the toe on the F10-12 is more stiff than the toe on the Fritschis.

Can I take my wide brakes off my Dukes and slip them onto a pair of F12s? Or have they changed the brakes since the first gen?

[Jonathan S.]

Thanks for the input on the F12 Kiwi. I have yet to see it in person but man, at almost 2 pounds lighter than the Dukes, somethings going to give.

Note that the published stats exclude the brake weight for the F12/F10.
With brakes, according to weights published in the other TGR thread on the F12/F10, the differential, for example, between the Baron vs F12 is only ~7oz per binding.

[kiwinig]

JGL - no danger for the F12 feedback, while definitley lighter I really doubt there is 2lbs difference between the dukes and the F12 but i could be wrong!? Hell i prob am wrong, we use these new fangled things called kilograms down here...

The markers (dukes and F12s) are all def way stiffer laterally than my old FR+ and i'd say the dukes and F12s aer pretty comparable in that sense.

Sinecure - Yes the marker brakes are interchangable, (and stupidly expensive in NZ at about $140NZD!!) i've got 1st gen dukes and F12s and have swapped the bindings no worries.

However, as per my previous post I don't like the heel mechanism on the F12 at all, its kinda hard to explain but it just doesn't seem to offer much reliable resistance or feel at all progressive in terms of trying to hold your boot in when things get a bit funky, it just sometimes decides to let go... If i was you I'd recommend trying before you buy perhaps... I've decided there is better ways to loose weight and am going to stick to the heavy but reliable feeling dukes!

[johnnygolucky]

JGL - no danger for the F12 feedback, while definitley lighter I really doubt there is 2lbs difference between the dukes and the F12 but i could be wrong!? Hell i prob am wrong, we use these new fangled things called kilograms down here...
I've decided there is better ways to loose weight and am going to stick to the heavy but reliable feeling dukes!

<br>

Yeah Kiwi after doing some research and little more digging on T-Talk it doesn't seem that there is much of a difference in weight, half pound maybe.
It's not the weight Im concerned about. I just really love the easy switch and the heal lifters of fritschis. They're very high and easy to adjust on variable terrain with a quick pole flip. The Freeride Plus is just to "loose" and disconcerting.

I love the solid feel of the Dukes but hate the heal lifter which is why I'm wondering about the stiffness of the new Fritschi Pro and if anyone has skied them. Or now maybe the new F12. It looks like the heal lifter has more hight which is a plus. I'll try to rent if possible but it's looking like I'll just stick with Dukes (there are worse bindings for sure) this season until some company comes out with the Gold . The snow should hit Mt Baker in about 4 weeks!

[harpo-the-skier]

Last year I emailed Lou and asked him to to his lateral deflection test on the Freeride Pro. He had tested all AT bindings previously, and the Dyna and the Duke came out as stiff as high end alpine bindings.

He replied to me and declined to do the test on the Pro, didn't really say why, but reading between the lines, I think he didn't want to kick a dead horse.

If more people contact him through his website, he might do the test on the pro, and we would have a quantified answer to our question.

[Horu]

Some dude posted a scary picture on the backcountry.com page for the freeride pro.

[roadgap]

Yikes. Don't like that picture very much.

[Horu]

There are some equally awesome photos of a pair of dukes that broke clean away behind the toe - on either side of the ski/tour lever, but I don't want to look.

[johnnygolucky]

Last year I emailed Lou and asked him to to his lateral deflection test on the Freeride Pro. He had tested all AT bindings previously, and the Dyna and the Duke came out as stiff as high end alpine bindings.

He replied to me and declined to do the test on the Pro, didn't really say why, but reading between the lines, I think he didn't want to kick a dead horse.

If more people contact him through his website, he might do the test on the pro, and we would have a quantified answer to our question.

Yeah I've been checking to see Lou has posted any thoughts on the Pro yet but nothing so far. He was pretty forgiving with the Freeride Plus review, so I'm curious to see a side by side tech spec of the two.

[johnnygolucky]

Some dude posted a scary picture on the backcountry.com page for the freeride pro.

I know, I saw that as well. Yikes! When you see the inside connecting point for the toe, it looks like it could do just that. Not much there. Although, the toe is almost identical to the freeride plus and I personally never have broken it, but truthfully, because of the lateral flex, I know that I keep the throttle down a little when skiing it, especially on harder goods.

[johnnygolucky]

So I'm sitting here with my girlfriends Fritschi Freeride Plus and the new Fritschi Freeride Pro. Side by side look and measurements:

The heal clamps are identical. From the lifter to the lock down, there appears to be no change. The part where the brakes attach are identical as well leaving me to believe brakes are interchangeable. As that brake plastic moves down to add support or "feet", it flares to 2 3/4" as opposed to the 2 1/8" on the Plus. The red base plate under is also wider. 2 7/8" as opposed 2 3/8" on the Plus.

Heavy duty plastic forming a Y, or corner bracing supporting the aluminum rail. The toe parts are almost identical, although the front of the new Pro is made of 2 separate pieces of plastic, as opposed to the one piece on the Plus. This is hard too describe but gives me thought as to why the photo of the broken Pro on BC.com could happen. It looks less connected.

The metal under the toe is solid, 2 3/4" width for both bindings, but the Pro is a substantially longer in length, 4 3/4" as opposed to the 3 1/2" on the Plus.

The pivot bolt looks tough as well and is moved back for asuumeingly a better stride. And it's a sharp looking binder.

The width of the red plastic base plates are wider, by almost a 1/2" but still plastic, and not burley plastic either. The toe piece is of concern. Even more so than past.

For what it's worth, I've always loved the way the Plus toured, but felt it too flaxy. I'm sure that this binding is a little bit stiffer, but that toe piece I find to be very iffy at best. Time will tell this winter.

[shirk]

Side by side look and measurements:

How about some side by side pics...


Changes to the end piece. Added wings above the floating interloc. This wedges into the heel elevator lock down.


Wider feet on the bottom of the heel. This creates a larger foot print on the PTC plate. The wider feet make contact sooner in flex of the system thus acting as a bump stop to limit flex.


Little tricky to see here, but the fangs on the toe make more contact with the DIN piston both vertically and horizontal. More contact less room for flex.


Pivot point moved 29mm back from old. More natural roll off in your stride. Much more material encapsulating the pivot pin. More bushing interface between pin and bushing means less chance of developing slop. [note I didn't line these up exactly at the front of boot point, looking at this I should have to fully show the amount the pivot has moved, might re-do this pic later when I have time]


Larger mounting foot print, spreading the load over a larger area. The hinge plate is stiffer due to the larger spacing.


Beefier under side of the toe around the hinge point. Also see how the toe piece has more surface contact with the piston.

I didn't have a set of the old FR+ PTC plates on my desk to detail the differences, but the new ones are wider, longer and stiffer. Although the plates may look cosmetic they actually aid in the stiffness of the system. The new design and materials create a larger interface with the ski and bindings to decrease flex.

Also new materials used in the heel and toe, if memory serves right from the day I spent with Thomas and Stephan they are carbon impregnated plastics that are much stronger than old.

Will get some pics of the new and old plates together.

I've skied a number of days on them ranging from boilerplate to pow and done back to back runs on the same ski with the Pro the Plus and Look demo's. The new Pro is considerably stiffer than the old Plus, I never really noticed how much flex was in the old Plus until I did back to back comparisons with the Pro on boilerplate last December. Comparisons were done all on the same ski, a Movement 184 Sluff (135-99-118).

*disclaimer I work for the Canadian distributor *

[roadgap]

So what about the comparison between the Pro and the Look demo's? I think that's what everyone really wants to know.

I had basically written off the pro's in favour of Baron's but I really want a reason to reconsider that as FR's in the skintrack are a known commodity to me. I am OK with how they tour (and the pivot point should improve things) and I'm not really stoked on the shitty touring of the Baron's. But if they're still sloppy compared to Baron's then I'll probably just suffer out the season on the markers and do a dedicated dynafit touring rig next year.

Since not many people have skied these yet there is very little actual info, even subjective 'feel' reports. I'm sure they're stiffer than the Plus but what does that really mean? Are they stiff enough to use as an everyday binder or are they still not there yet?

[shirk]

So what about the comparison between the Pro and the Look demo's?

I found them to be equally stiff as the demo Look NX 12's.

My own 184 Sluffs are mounted with Vist 816 and the Pro feel almost as stiff.

I didn't have those with me on the day we did back to back testing, so no back to back runs were done.

Basically I could not feel any movement and they felt alpine binding stiff. As above my goto skis are mounted with the Vists and my back-up are older 14 DIN Solly 997's (think it's 997, all metal 9?? DIN 14 Solly's I can't recall off the top of my head maybe 977's).

The relocated pivot point is certainly noticeable when touring. The ski has a more balanced feel and your stride feels more natural. No longer a hinge like feeling.