The theoretical narrow protest/arg/dps 138 gangrush praxis thread

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

Care to put some numbers to that? @ 6'1"ish 165-170ish am I an HSA or a beanpole? :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by bouguer

So i ordered the medium flex skis but am now debating whether to change to the stiff. I'm tall and pretty skinny 6'3" 180, but have been touring on pretty stiff ON3P's the last 2 years. I'm not worried about the medium flex being a noodle, but comparisons of medium and stiff flex to some other non-praxis skis might be helpful. Thanks

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When I say roids, I'm thinking more like 220lbs.

Now this is JUST PERSONAL OPINION but for both of you, I'd do this

196? Medium flex

187? stiff flex

This is one of those skis that's already molded to the shape you want it to be in in soft snow so it doesn't need to flex that much. But again....I don't particularly think keith's 'medium flex' skis are that soft. They definitely are softer than what I've seen coming from scott at ON3P though.....especially the C & D.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

When I say roids, I'm thinking more like 220lbs.

Now this is JUST PERSONAL OPINION but for both of you, I'd do this

196? Medium flex

187? stiff flex

This is one of those skis that's already molded to the shape you want it to be in in soft snow so it doesn't need to flex that much. But again....I don't particularly think keith's 'medium flex' skis are that soft. They definitely are softer than what I've seen coming from scott at ON3P though.....especially the C & D.

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I'm unsure what flext to go with too and I've skied a lot of Keith's skis!

I don't want to lose playfullness but considering the ski is already in the shape it needs to be in I don't know why I wouldn't go stiff (EG, its doesn't need to de-camber to float). Seems to me going stiff will help stability and crud bashing ability with little in the way of downside. We are only talking ~10% stiffer right? The medium sounds comparable to the Concept (which I currnetly ski) and am sure I could go slightly stiffer and appreciate it.

I'm 6'2" 185-190lbs skiing in JH (and Colorado...and Utah)

Thanks Kid. Think i'll switch to the stiff. if its too stiff, guess that means i'll just have to roid a bit to compensate.

Yeah, I am still torn between the medium and stiff flexes. (just under 5'11", 165# on the 187). But I have to keep reminding myself that Tabke skis the shit out of the stock (??) Protests. Stiff enough for him = stiff enough for me.

Besides, I have other skis that are stiff.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

I'm 5'8" and ski the 188 protests with zero complaints.

Just sayin. They do ski short. You're not the only one who's asked for that length though.

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I read that and it gave me hope. But I calmed myself down. Already one expensive mistake in the boot department for me this season (u want my Dynafit Titan UL's? Pickup in Japan. Tons of snow here, correction, make that tons of powder here. Did I mention wanton women? No, not wonton, this is Japan, not China. Buy my boots).

188 was just a bit much over my 184 threshold, which is already at the long end for me. I'm not a high powered skier, and I am on the skis every day, always hiking... day after day my skinny legs get tired so a bit of shorter 'n lighter is appreciated in the ease-of-use dept.

Really interested to see how these run in variable snow.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

165#

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Same as me and I'm going medium.

I've got it in my head that medium is comparable to the old protests. And yeah.......doesn't seem to slow tabke down.

Keep in mind the carbon sheet on this will make them a little more poppy that the previous wood only skis. I haven't skied any of the carbon layup versions but just going by what Keith told me.

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Originally Posted by Hohes

188 was just a bit much over my 184 threshold, which is already at the long end for me. I'm not a high powered skier, and I am on the skis every day, always hiking... day after day my skinny legs get tired so a bit of shorter 'n lighter is appreciated in the ease-of-use dept.

Really interested to see how these run in variable snow.

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Based on my protests, I have zero concern about skiing in tight trees at 5mph on these. Gotta remember these are on the new school program with kind of a slightly forward mount point and more rocker compared to a 188 in a lot of other skis. My 190 OG gotamas are WAAYYYY more work than my 188 protests and they're pretty much the exact same length.

Just throwing some more out there.......

But variable snow that's not boilerplate hard something with zero penetration is what this things are made for! :D And even on that stuff they still won't be torture.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

This is one of those skis that's already molded to the shape you want it to be in in soft snow so it doesn't need to flex that much. But again....I don't particularly think keith's 'medium flex' skis are that soft.

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Originally Posted by JeffreyJim

I don't want to lose playfullness but considering the ski is already in the shape it needs to be in I don't know why I wouldn't go stiff (EG, its doesn't need to de-camber to float). Seems to me going stiff will help stability and crud bashing ability with little in the way of downside. We are only talking ~10% stiffer right?

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Tabke skis the shit out of the stock (??) Protests. Stiff enough for him = stiff enough for me.

Besides, I have other skis that are stiff.

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^^^ These were my thoughts exactly today, while self-debating which flex to go for.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Same as me and I'm going medium.

I've got it in my head that medium is comparable to the old protests. And yeah.......doesn't seem to slow tabke down.

Keep in mind the carbon sheet on this will make them a little more poppy that the previous wood only skis. I haven't skied any of the carbon layup versions but just going by what Keith told me.

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Same weight as me too and I'm going for medium as well. I'm sure I could be happy with any of the flexes, but what dissuaded me from getting the stiffs is that with the carbon lay-up they are going to be on the lively side, and I envision the combo of lively and stiff as being unforgiving (bone jarring, filling rattling) in crud, crust, avy debris, etc.

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

what dissuaded me from getting the stiffs is that with the carbon lay-up they are going to be on the lively side, and I envision the combo of lively and stiff as being unforgiving (bone jarring, filling rattling) in crud, crust, avy debris, etc.

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FYI: I took the all-carbon 191 Fats through crust, chop, etc last Friday at Stevens, and they were great. None of the issues you envision, and I almost guarantee they are stiffer than the "stiff" option.

Just adding fuel to the fire...

EDIT: And I would know - didn't ski in the resort for the past two years because my knee couldn't handle the high-frequency vibration of hardpack/chop.

Oh yeah, almost all bros are stiff as hell - I've owned a few pair myself. That's actually where I was coming from. I love my carbon Lhasas, but I find they can be a little too lively in some types of icy crud. The kind of stuff that a Legend Pro or Wren would blow right through. Then again, I wouldn't want to tour on either of those skis, so obviously, it's all a trade-off. I just don't think I need the stiff flex. I don't (can't) ski like Drew, so why would I want a stiffer version than his.

Edit: I don't think I fully fleshed out that idea... What I'm saying is in situations where I want a really stiff ski, I want it to be fairly damp as well. In conditions where I want a medium flex, I like livelier skis.

Double edit: You really did throw fuel on the fire because even though I'm acting like I've made my mind up, I'm still teetering between the med and stiff :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

I think you were the one saying you'd like the CRJs if the tail was a little narrower too right?

That pretty well describes this.

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I think that was someone else, but I like where this is going. It will hopefully live up to what we are thinking it will be. Kind of a no nonsense skinny protest. I hope he makes the tip/tail smaller than his rendering is showing.... in the pic it just looks like a skinny protest but I was hoping for more taper.

Am I off base?

[QUOTE=TheDon;3496317]I think that was someone else, but I like where this is going. It will hopefully live up to what we are thinking it will be. Kind of a no nonsense skinny protest. I hope he makes the tip/tail smaller than his rendering is showing.... in the pic it just looks like a skinny protest but I was hoping for more taper.[QUOTE]

I like more taper. ordered--187, BPS graphic, med flex, matte top. Stoked!!

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Originally Posted by ARpowhound

I like more taper. ordered--187, BPS graphic, med flex, matte top. Stoked!!

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Its all about taper these days.

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Originally Posted by TheDon

I think that was someone else, but I like where this is going. It will hopefully live up to what we are thinking it will be. Kind of a no nonsense skinny protest. I hope he makes the tip/tail smaller than his rendering is showing.... in the pic it just looks like a skinny protest but I was hoping for more taper.

Am I off base?

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The tail is pretty tapered.

The tip I think will be good having essentially a big long flat section with light taper.

Remember, this thing isn't that wide overall and pretty straight. Thinks like the EPH have a sharp taper because it begins so far from the center of the ski compared to this. This ski does have one of the longest tapers in existence.....it's just not very sharp.

Couple questions though: Have you skied the protests?

And what would a sharper taper offer that you think is lacking?

I'm trying not to give in and buy these... do to cashflow these would end up being my only pow ski in the quiver!

We've heard a lot about backcountry. But what about resort cut up chunder? What are your opinions on these being a resort ski?

EDIT:

were looking at the 187 stiff or med for a 5'9 160lb fis racer

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Couple questions though: Have you skied the protests?

And what would a sharper taper offer that you think is lacking?

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No I have not skied the protest but I skied the Pow and the spats for about 6 years. That is why I'm in this, I want an improvement on them. Something that can tour.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Thinks like the EPH

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You nailed it man! This is exactly the same type tip and tail I was gunning for. Something between it and the spats, ya know. If it is in that ball park it will not only test your theory about how you don't have to have 130+ underfoot to float but just a good shape (kinda like a surfboard is about shape).

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Originally Posted by skiing_is_partying

I'm trying not to give in and buy these... do to cashflow these would end up being my only pow ski in the quiver!

We've heard a lot about backcountry. But what about resort cut up chunder? What are your opinions on these being a resort ski?

EDIT:

were looking at the 187 stiff or med for a 5'9 160lb fis racer

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I think this is where it will excel, it will meet your in bounds expectations and exceed them I'm sure. I mean I love the spats, but think if you had a pair of spats on roids.

I think if you really are an ex racer you'll want the stiff but that question is hard to answer without knowing what else you like to ski on...

Well right now I've got some 184 Bibby pros and i hate the way they hook up in powder at speed... Although amazing in the trees and heavy snow

And I've always been a fan of the mantras.

The one thing i cant wrap my head around is how these will do when it snows only a few inches... i cant see how they will arc in the crap left behind by the public.

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Originally Posted by TheDon

You nailed it man! This is exactly the same type tip and tail I was gunning for. Something between it and the spats, ya know. If it is in that ball park it will not only test your theory about how you don't have to have 130+ underfoot to float but just a good shape (kinda like a surfboard is about shape).

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Yeah but I think this IS that shape ;)

I think you just mean the tip shape because the taper on an EHP is literally about half the length of what's on this ski. When I went from my spats to praxis pows, that's one thing that I thought was a very noticeable improvement....the wider tip. That's what's on the protest and on this ski. It's still really tapered but it maintains surface area by doing it more gradually. Remember.......the widest point of this thing is only 124mm. The EHP has more surface area. As far as the tip 'shape', keeping it wide makes jumping off shit and not going OTB eaiser and keeping the tips up in slow deep, flat sections is the way I look at it. It'll make breaking trail easier too :D

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

When I went from my spats to praxis pows, that's one thing that I thought was a very noticeable improvement....the wider tip. That's what's on the protest and on this ski. It's still really tapered but it maintains surface area by doing it more gradually. Remember.......the widest point of this thing is only 124mm.:D

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I fully agree with subtle tip taper. That is one thing I love about the praxis pows....fair amount of taper to the tail but very subtle amount to the tip. Not only does it "look" right (I know, who cares) but it works great. No hooking but still plenty of float.

Woo---this shape looks exactly like what I've had in mind for the last 3 years.

Can't wait.

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Originally Posted by skiing_is_partying

I'm trying not to give in and buy these... do to cashflow these would end up being my only pow ski in the quiver!

We've heard a lot about backcountry. But what about resort cut up chunder? What are your opinions on these being a resort ski?

EDIT:

were looking at the 187 stiff or med for a 5'9 160lb fis racer

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This will be mostly a resort ski for me as well. I'm a little heavier than you and also ex-racer and got 196 stiffs. I'm used to heavy charging skis like XXLs so weight and length weren't an issue for me here. Also wanted a little more contact length for the firm since I will have these mostly for the EC and trips west this year. I think this could be a great resort ski for playing in the trees or when the fresh gets skied out. In that length i'd probably go stiff for the resort but that's just me. Since I don't tour much I'm clearly in the minority here but I was looking for a playful ski that's stiff and relatively narrow to use any day it's soft.

Kidwoo - very cool to see these happening. I'm stupid interested in the 187s......

Seriously, do I need more skis or a support group for people who enjoy buying them?

Last effort on my part. Euro mags have three people potentailly interested on a group shipment is there anyone else that is seriously interested in this ski??

Trying to sort out the details. More people = better

PM for details

i weigh 175, ski primarily UT resorts and currently have Backcountry and Concept in the quiver. This would round it out on the deep pow end of things for mostly resort and possibly BC use, depending on how it deals with runouts and crappy snow.

I'm thinking of the 187 med flex, BPS, matte mounted tele w quiverkillers/22designs AXL.

Honestly, I don't see why people who are interested in a pow ski for resort use don't just get the regular Protest.

This isn't aimed at jmedsic or anyone else in particular, but this type of comment seems to have come up a few times in the last page or two, and it doesn't make much sense to me.