Berthoud Pass/USFS meeting Thurs.

[Foggy_Goggles]

USFS Meeting/Berthoud

There will be a meeting held with the National Forest Service on Thursday, October 9, 2003 from 1:00-4:00pm in the City Lights Room at the Sheraton Denver West in Lakewood(6th & Union). The Friends of Berthoud Pass is working with all interested parties and is currently putting together a professional, organized, and specific business plan for the future use of the Lodge and the area in a non-profit structure.

This meeting will be the first step for any future use of Berthoud Pass. Any organization or individual interested in using the area needs to apply for a special use permit. Any group given a permit will be responsible for the maintenance as well as destruction and environmental clean up of the area. The permit is at the discretion of the National Forest Service and the ability to maintain as well as fund the possible destruction of the lodge is a major factor for their decision.

Friends of Berthoud Pass is looking for your support for the meeting.
Friends of Berthoud Pass
P.O. Box 48063
Denver, CO 80204

I know the time sucks ass but its a good excuse to get out of work. Help the future of the pass, whatever it may be, be determined by the skiers not the man.

If you have any questions, email Strand (STD on the other place) or check out

jstrand@ureach.com


www.saveberthoud.org



http://ghostdepot.com/rg/images/moffat%20route/berthoud%20pass%20building%20pc.jpg

[Pinner]

foggy, check your typing on Strand's email.


and see yown mail foo

[SheRa]

Pinner, Foggy - are you guys going?

[Foggy_Goggles]

Of course I'm going

[Summit]

I don't think I have to work tomorrow... why the heck not? Anyone wanna carpool?

[drifter75]

Foggy,

You got mail...

[Foggy_Goggles]

Dood that is so far above and beyond good.

Anyone who doesn't believe the the power of the tit men doesn't know drifter. Well, neither do I but that's the point. May the Pass thank you with endless days of balls deep.

[drifter75]

Shweet, thanks for the props Foggy.

See you on the Pass :D

[nopainnojane]

I am 98% sure that I will make it there.

[Pinner]

Listen up fockers!

Maybe you've never skied Berthoud. Maybe you don't even know how to pronounce it right (BURR-thid). But if there's a skier in that hideously out-of-shape figure you claim as your "temple" or if the ski porn on these pages send a tingle through your core, hell, if you even know or have HEARD about someone who fits that definition, we need ya.

Friends of Berthoud Pass (http://www.saveberthoud.org/) is a small, but growing, group of dedicated individuals with a single purpose in mind-- to save the rugged character and long legacy of skiing at Berthoud Pass.

Would there still be skiing at Bert without this group? Sure. Will there be a mechanism for educational and community involvement? Avalanche awareness, safety and risk management? Historical and environmental interpretation? And a warm building with flushables to house it all?

Not without Friends of Berthoud Pass.

A few individuals have put their heart and soul into this effort. They ain't stopping. They ain't doing it for the glory or for the money. (what money???) They're doing it for you. And your grandchilluns.

What do they need in return? Your support. At this point, all I can ask of you is to stay tuned, stay informed, ask questions, offer to help.

We've got a good chance to create something that's never been seen in North American skiing-- a safe, cooperative, non-profit backcountry experience for newbs, porn stars and gawkers. A place where an inner city kid from Denver might sit down at a picnic table with you and in a matter of minutes be transformed.

This shit matters.
http://www.saveberthoud.org/

Check it out, and visit often. We show the Forest Service a gazzilion page views, they're gonna have to take notice. You think maggots make a difference, you ain't seen nuthin yet!

Peas,
*Pnr

[Foggy_Goggles]

^^^git on up

[Jiffy]

Pins, Your email got me hooked. I want to know more about this co-op. What can a person from out of state, who has had a hard-on for wanting to check the place out for 2 years now, do? Donation? Membership? Petition signing?
Inquiring, Give-a-fuck minds want to know!

[SheRa]

Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
I don't think I have to work tomorrow... why the heck not? Anyone wanna carpool?

I could maybe do that. PM me with your phone number and directions to your place. I should probably swing by there around 11:00.

Anybody else from Summit County want to ride over there together?

Foggy, I can scarcely remember what you look like. Although I remember your skiing of course. :) So please say hi to me and remind me who you are.

[board]

I won't be able to make it to the meeting but my support is firmly behind this movement. I have enjoyed turns at Bert over the years both lift accessed and hiked for. I can definitely say some of my fondest memories of both skiing and boarding have been had there and I would be devastated to see any negative changes or change that is not inline with the long spirit and sense of community that has existed there for 70 plus years. Thanks to all of you who are working hard at this cause !

[Pinner]

Update forthcoming.

Log on to the website (saveberthoud.org) in the meantime. See the rest of ya in an hour.

[SheRa]

I'm missing it...

Looking forward to hearing what went on.

[Pinner]

Meeting's still in progress in small breakout sessions. I couldn't stay to participate. Stinking Lumberg.

Gist of what was presented is that the USFS is interested in working with us and all other interested parties to see a long-term, sustainable model for the future of the Pass.

More than one person made a point of singling out Friends of Berthoud Pass for congratulatory comments of support. Strandman has done an outstanding job thus far, and I am confident that, through Friends of Berthoud Pass, the voice of backcountry skiers will be heard and implemented into whatever plan develops.

For a detailed TR, I defer to Strand and Phogger. Stay tuned...

[Foggy_Goggles]

Best Quote:

"The young people will always be up there snowboarding and telemarketing"

My first comment in the breakout session:

"Can we change 'extreme skiing and snowboarding' to read 'backcountry skiing and snowboarding', please?"

The tone of the meeting was quite positive. I was impressed with the apparent spirit of cooperation between the various stakeholder groups. The Forest Service, while receptive to the idea of a future collaborative effort, appeared very inflexible in fast tracking the Special User Permit application process. As is stands currently, there is a handshake agreement where by SolVista will winterize and board-up the lodge and the future of the structure will be revisited in the spring. Currently, neither SolVista, the FS, or CDOT has agreed to plow the parking lot or turnouts this winter. The FS will provide 2 Porta-Pottys. The challenges ahead are most certainly substantial and the future uncertain. But based on the energy and apparent dedication of those in attendance, I remain confident that a positive solution can be developed.


Save Berthoud (www.saveberthoud.org)

The Agenda and Speakers Here (http://www.fs.fed.us/arnf/pao/upcomingevents/berthoud.htm)

When I digest the info I'll give a slightly better summary. If you have any questions or concerns post them here or e me at jamesdrewett AT hotmale CUM

[Pinner]

Except yer a moron...

saveberthoud.ORG :p

[Summit]

Strand gave a great talk... course he knows that.
Pinner: you ran out before I could talk to ya.
Foggy: I somehow missed you too.
Shera: You missed out... it was cool.

I was the guy in the t-shirt, ripped jeans, and A-Basin cap.

My impressions:

The Denver Post reporter who brought up the parking issue during Q&A hit the nail right on the head IMO. It's clearly in CDOT's interest to plow the pulloffs and the parking lot or they will face cars parked all along US40 blocking traffic and creatin a general hazard especailly in poor weather or emergency situations. CDOT would probably plow it anyways (I'm sure the others will attest to that since I only made it to BP a few times last year).

In our group we strongly stressed for the immediate short term needs: the need for parking, a payphone (for emergency calls for slide burials and auto accidents since there is virtually no cell service there), and minimal facilities (because minimal facilities will keep down BC traffic of those looking for cush and possibly cut down on Johnny Flatlanders getting themselves into trouble). I and others also tried to stress the need for a VHF repeater that would be vital for SAR missions.

We definately listed Unsurpassed backcountry skiing terrain and emphasised geography (proximity to denver, location on the divide, uniquily steep nature of the terrain, heavy snowfall, and long snow season). There was also emphasis placed on research. Others and I tried to make the point that without the lodge and plowed , there would be no good staging area or ICP for a SAR mission and that SAR missions were an inevitability regardless of what was done with the area.

I was rather alarmed by the Forest Service's response to my question regarding the Rec Fee Demo Program if nobody got the permit up (quite possibly the worst outcome possible). I was also suspicious of the Forest Service's avoidance of addressing even the possiblity of an expedited permit proces utilizing either existings regulations or legislative action through congress with Udall's help. They avoided giving a clear answer on this repeatedly accusing the questioners of demanding a decision when they were merely inquiring as to whether such an option was a possibility. This circumlocution lends credence to the suspicion that the USFS may or may not be putting all its motives where its mouth is.

The state park's person was rather confusing as to what exactly he saw as options and whether there would be a fee to simply access the land. Perhaps the others know more details but I only had his 3 minute talk to go on.

Otherwise, I thought it was pretty cool... the coffee was good.

Strand: I was wondering what position CAIC had on this issue... I would think they would make an easy and visible ally.

[funkendrenchman]

Originally posted by board
I won't be able to make it to the meeting but my support is firmly behind this movement.

so that means you volunteer to buy this for the new Berthoud?http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11109;)

[board]

Originally posted by funkendrenchman
so that means you volunteer to buy this for the new Berthoud?http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11109;)

I'm pretty sure I can hike as fast as that piece O shit !

[board]

!

[drifter75]

Wish I could've attended, but glad to hear the meeting went reasonably well. I hope CDOT will plow the lot anyway.

>Pinner/Foggy, I have reflowed the text and sent it back.

[Pinner]

As a fact of reality, CDOT drivers will continue to plow. It's simply inconceivable that they'd allow cars to be parked along the highway.

That said, it's understandable that CDOT cannot commit to this service for operational and budgetary reasons.


Nice work drifter! With the dedicated efforts of folks like you, this thing has a very good chance of making a substantial contribution.

[Pinner]

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~1688202,00.html


Berthoud backers keep eye on future
New uses mulled for failed ski area

By Jason Blevins
Denver Post Business Writer
If the rocky crags above Berthoud Pass have souls, they were shining bright on Thursday.

Dozens of Berthoud Pass lovers - hikers, skiers, historians and forest guardians - rallied in Lakewood to begin shaping a recreational future for the mountain pass that has seen nine entrepreneurs come and go in a 66-year struggle to make the area a viable ski hill.

"We know there's a lot of history up there and there's also some not so successful history," said Jim Bedwell, supervisor of the Arapaho-Roosevelt National Forest.

But fans of the deep and steep ski area say it's too soon to give up on the pass and its aging lodge, and offered up uses ranging from a trailhead for the developing Continental Divide Trail to an avalanche training center.

Marise Cipriani, who bought the area in April 1999, tried two seasons of lift-served skiing and two seasons of guided Sno-Cat skiing before folding the operation this past summer.

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Deep discount passes offered by Vail Resorts, Intrawest and Winter Park had all but erased Berthoud's niche - affordability - soon after Cipriani bought the hill.

"It made it extremely difficult to compete under those market circumstances," said Charlie Mayfield, vice-president of Cipriani's SolVista resort company.

The lifts are gone. The 53-year-old lodge, long a refuge for travelers and skiers, will be boarded up this winter as the U.S. Forest Service explores the future of Berthoud Pass.

The Forest Service must guard public safety, but it also must make sure it is not left with an aging lodge that costs more than $80,000 a year to maintain.

"We've been very clear that the model for a downhill ski area has failed. ... We are looking for a model that will work, and we are looking to the future, but we are also looking out for public safety and any liabilities for the American taxpayer," said Bedwell, who will make the final decision about the fate of the lodge and recreation area.

Ideally, Bedwell wants a sustainable operation with a low-maintenance building that meets the demands of thousands of visitors who warm the area's slopes in winter, or stop along the highway at 11,300 feet to marvel at their proximity to the heavens.

"We know what's failed up there, and we feel there is a model that will work," said John Strand, a former volunteer ski patroller at Berthoud and founder of the new Friends of Berthoud Pass group, which is lobbying the Forest Service to sustain the area's 70-year recreational history.

Collaboration was the theme at the public meeting Thursday, where many of the 75 people present promised support for keeping the Berthoud vibe alive.

By the time a final upgrade to U.S. 40's eastern approach is completed, the Colorado Department of Transportation will have pumped $80 million into renovating Berthoud Pass.

CDOT is interested in working with other groups to create a possible rest stop on the pass and may be able to fund improvements that would include a pedestrian crossing of the busy highway, but it cannot be responsible for a rest area's maintenance, program engineer Brian Pinkerton said.

Colorado State Parks would also be interested in joining a partnership at Berthoud Pass.

Parks director Lyle Laverty said his department has "unique opportunities" for capital funding through access to lottery and Great Outdoors Colorado funds.

The Pine-based Continental Divide Trail Alliance, which is helping to complete the 3,100-mile Continental Divide Trail from Canada to Mexico, also is a willing partner.

Because of its proximity to Denver, Berthoud Pass is a good place to introduce the wilderness trail to most people, said Bruce Ward, the alliance's executive director. Ward also extolled Berthoud as a perfect locale for avalanche awareness and training classes.

And Ike Garst dismissed the Forest Service's assessment that downhill skiing at Berthoud is a failed enterprise. He would know.

With his wife, Lucy, Garst ran the ski area from 1977 to 1987, offering snowboarders their first lift rides in Colorado.

Now he's ready to make it work again, relying less on skiing this time.

"We made most of our money up there in the summer," he said.

Garst has organized a group of investors willing to return Berthoud to its recreational glory.

Garst said it could be done with a long-term permit from the Forest Service and increased operations in the summer months.

"Berthoud Pass could be successful, but in a different model. There are a lot of things that can be done up there," he said.