NSR: Bertuzzi should be tossed out of the game

[DaveTV]

Broke Steve Moore's neck with a cheap shot! (http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2215000)
No room for this shit..
http://www.foxsports.com/netapp/blobs/active/5/1/2216206_7_3.jpg

[Unorthodox]

I saw it too and agree whole heartedly. Ironically enough there is this clip of Bertuzzi being interviewed after the incident where Marty McSorely hit Donald Brashear in the head with his stick knocking him out cold. Bertuzzi was saying something to the effect of "It is disgusting. There is no room in the game for stuff like that."

One thing that I always like about hockey was that there was an "honor" in the game where if guys are gonna fight they square off and do it. Cheap shots like that are for spineless cowards. If you want to "get some guy back" for a clean but hard open ice hit then do it within the rules of the game.

[The AD]

I really hope Bertuzzi is tried for assault. The fact this happened during a sporting event is no excuse. I disagree with people who say "fighting is part of the game." It isn't. It may be inevitable in such an aggressive contact sport, but it isn't part of the game.

Quote from Trevor Linden: "If most people knew how upset Todd was by the result of what happened they would have a different view on things." BS. I'm sure there are lots of people who feel regret after they murder someone, too.

[Canuk]

Originally posted by Unorthodox
Cheap shots like that are for spineless cowards. If you want to "get some guy back" for a clean but hard open ice hit then do it within the rules of the game.

I'm going to guess that you were probably one of the first people jumping up to defend Hextall and his patented two handers 30 feet out of the crease, weren't you?

Bert should sit at least until the begining of the second round of the playoffs - maybe for the rest of the season. He didn't intend to hurt the kid though, just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Originally posted by Canuk
I'm going to guess that you were probably one of the first people jumping up to defend Hextall and his patented two handers 30 feet out of the crease, weren't you?

Bert should sit at least until the begining of the second round of the playoffs - maybe for the rest of the season. He didn't intend to hurt the kid though, just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.


With you on this for sure.
There is a code and most abide by it, Bertuzzi went to far and let emotions get the best of him.
I think he should sit the season given the nature of the injuries, it's not like he gave the guy a couple of lumps he broke his frigin neck.

[Ireallyliketoski]

He should be sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole.

[DaveTV]

just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.
I don't buy that. These guys have been playing hockey since they were 5. They know the code. You don't ATTACK SOMEONE WHEN THEY AIN'T LOOKIN. Chickenshit. Bertuzzi should "know the code". And being a "superstar" and "rookie" have nothing to do with it.

[Honc]

Originally posted by Canuk
I'm going to guess that you were probably one of the first people jumping up to defend Hextall and his patented two handers 30 feet out of the crease, weren't you?

Bert should sit at least until the begining of the second round of the playoffs - maybe for the rest of the season. He didn't intend to hurt the kid though, just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.

I'm as big a hockey fan as they come, and am a proponent of hockey code. That said, I can't believe you're serious. You have to protect your superstars, but you do that by fighting, finishing your checks and even taking a run at a guy.

How can you support an argument that he "didn't intend to hurt the kid," Bertuzzi too a run at him from the blind side, dropped a full-swing haymaker into his temple and then followed through, driving his head into the ice. Year suspension. Simple.

Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him. I am all for teaching this kid a lesson, but have Bertuzzi drop his gloves and pummel him like a man.

This punch is the most cowardly form of "enforcement" that the NHL has seen to date, and it is slowly becoming the standard. The league needs to make a statement that you cannot protect your players in a cowardly way. They have been good about allowing fighting to continue, but the cheap shots have got to go. Read this sentence and then tell me what crosses your mind:

Todd Bertuzzi skated full steam cross-ice, wound up and drilled Steve Moore in the side of the head, breaking his neck.

That isn't hockey.

[Viva]

I had the chance to watch ESPN classics last week and a game from the 1964 Stanly Cup was shown. I couldn't help but notice the marked difference between eras. Sure, there was some checking and hard hits back then, but nothing gratuitous like in today's game.

[Dexter Rutecki]

To add onto what Honc said--I think you should look again at what this was supposedly retaliation for. Moore wasn't trying to injure Naslund, from the replays I've seen. If Naslund hadn't been leaning way forward at the time, he probably would have been fine. There's no rule, though, that you have to stay out of someone's way if they're leaning forward and going for a puck that's almost out of their reach--even if it is a superstar and the other guy's a rookie.
Then look at exactly what Bertuzzi did--not only did he land a haymaker on the side of the guy's head from behind, but he was holding his jersey from the back at the same time. And then, of course, he rode him into the ice. And all that after Moore had already fought in the first period. It's definitely bullshit, but I don't know about legal action.

[Squirrel99]

yeah that hit was about the biggest load of crap I've seen in hockey. bastard deserves to sit the rest of the season for certain.
it's one thing to enforce, but another with malicious intent. heard on tv some of the vancouver players had been talking about 'teaching him a lesson' prior to the game. Usually when the other player is laying face down in a pool of blood and not moving- it's a sign to stop beating the crap out of someone.

[Canuk]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear....let me try to do a bit better.

I am not saying that what Bertuzzi did was clean, or right, or acceptable within the game of hockey (or life for that matter). I agree that you need to come down on this type of action swiftly, and appropriately.

That said, I don't believe that Bertuzzi was out to injure this kid. The way I see the play is that he grabbed his sweater to try and get him to turn around, took a swing (definate cheap shot) and momentum carried him forward. It certainly was cheap, definately deserving of a suspension, but he wasn't trying to end the guys season or career.

Honc - you are right to say this is a cowardly way to enforce, and to try and protect star players. I will not argure with anyone who says that.

I guess the only point that I was trying to make was that this most likely wasn't a premeditated - lets go out there and try to f*ck this guy up - act.

[DaveTV]

If they were talking about "teaching him a lesson" BEFORE the game, then it WAS premeditated..

[rip]

Beating the living shit out of Moore may have been premeditated but there is no way that the intent of that hit was to seriously injure him. Yes it was a cheap shot from behind, but to me it looked like bertuzzi was just getting in the first shot and expected Moore to turn around arms swinging so they could go at it. I mean what are they chances that if you take a swing at a guy wearing a helmut with a gloved hand that you are gonna knock him out with one punch? Then momentum took them both to the ground and Bertuzzi landed on more still expecting him to jump up and start fighting.


If the league didnt have the Instigator rule this would have never have happened like it did, Bertuzzi should be suspended for a long while, but it seems to be more of a freak accident than a premeditated hit to take him out of the game.

[DaveTV]

Dude, watch the film - it wasn't the PUNCH the broke his neck, he slammed his head to the ice AFTER the punch,(no he wasn't turned around either, all from behind..) Then proceeded to continue pummeling him while he was face down, helpless with a broken neck..

[Crinkle]

Originally posted by DaveTV
Dude, watch the film - it wasn't the PUNCH the broke his neck, he slammed his head to the ice AFTER the punch,(no he wasn't turned around either, all from behind..) Then proceeded to continue pummeling him while he was face down, helpless with a broken neck..

yeah it looked like he was out cold before he hit the ice. Sucker punch in the temple tends to do that to a guy. Sportscenter ran a highlight reel of the most brutal/illegal hits of all time. Not the worst but definitely up there. It wasnt as bad as some of the times that players purposely hit other players in the head or face with their stick, but as far as hits goes, i would put it up there.

[778skier]

Originally posted by DaveTV
If they were talking about "teaching him a lesson" BEFORE the game, then it WAS premeditated..

Ever seen the movie Slapshot?, May's comments were a joke, quoted from that movie. Dont forget this isnt the first game they've played against them since the naslund incident.

Moore's hit on Naslund was cheap, you can't be chasing a puck, see a star player in the corner of your eye, then decide the puck isnt important, and turn to hit the guy blindside when you see he's not looking. That is cheap. Did it deserve retaliation? hell yea. Did he deserve to have a broken neck?, not necessarily but should he have expected that something like that could possibly happen, yes he should've.

There's a thousand ways this could've been prevented, had moore not been on the ice, or had the league given him a penalty or suspension are too major ones that stick in my mind.

If you get in a fight at a bar, and you run and punch a guy, your momentum carries you both to the floor and the guy lands on a broken bottle which kills him did you intend to kill the guy? No way, you intended to scrap with him, but shit happens. Should you be blamed for that shit?

[Canuk]

Originally posted by DaveTV
Dude, watch the film - it wasn't the PUNCH the broke his neck, he slammed his head to the ice AFTER the punch,(no he wasn't turned around either, all from behind..) Then proceeded to continue pummeling him while he was face down, helpless with a broken neck..

Dude, are you a doctor? Do you know exactly where in this whole mele that one of his vertebrae was fractured? It was an unfortunate accident, but an accident (refering to the injury) none the less.

[The AD]

Originally posted by 778skier
If you get in a fight at a bar, and you run and punch a guy, your momentum carries you both to the floor and the guy lands on a broken bottle which kills him did you intend to kill the guy? No way, you intended to scrap with him, but shit happens. Should you be blamed for that shit?

I would say yes.

[Skidawg]

Sports has usually been consistant for punishing the act, rather than the consequences. Comparing sports acts to "real life" examples has never, will never, and is never relevant. They're two entirely different worlds.

Bertuzzi is a huge. His listed weight was 35 lbs. greater than Moore's. I don't believe his intentions were to break his back or knock him out. He'll do his 20-25 games and have to watch his back every time he plays Colorado. That will be sufficent.

Viva - Because of the reduced goal scoring and the excellent special teams that most playoff teams have, playoff hockey is very different from regular season hockey. Overall, fighting and "goon" injuries are down from previous decades as well.
A 1964 Stanley Cup game and division rivalry for playoff positioning are extremely hard to compare.

[fridge]

Originally posted by Honc
Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him.

Head down? yes.

Clean hit? No.

Moore threw a hit to the head of one of the leading scorers in the league. Intentional or not, still a head shot that drew blood, and knocked Naslund out for 3 games.

What Bertuzzi did was stupid. I feel sick for both of them (being a big fan of Bertuzzi). But watch highlights of what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom. He blatantly punched him in the back of the head, knocked him cold. Beukeboom had concussion problems, ended up retiring. Johnson got 12 games. How can you say Bertuzzi should be kicked out of hockey when Johnson only got 12 games for this? I know Moore is pretty seriously injured, but the incidents are comparable......

[Canuk]

Good point fridge - I had totally forgotten about the Johnson / Beukeboom incident.

The NHL needs to punnish the act, not the concequence, and I am fairly certain (or at least hopeful) they will do that in this case.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by 778skier
Moore's hit on Naslund was cheap, you can't be chasing a puck, see a star player in the corner of your eye, then decide the puck isnt important, and turn to hit the guy blindside when you see he's not looking. That is cheap. Did it deserve retaliation? hell yea. Did he deserve to have a broken neck?, not necessarily but should he have expected that something like that could possibly happen, yes he should've.


But that's not what happened. They were both going for the puck, Moore knew Naslund was there and didn't change his path. You don't have to get out of the way for people in this game. If Naslund had been keeping his head up he woulda been OK.
Keep your stick on the ice and your head up, kids!

[jdabasin]

Originally posted by Honc

Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him. I am all for teaching this kid a lesson, but have Bertuzzi drop his gloves and pummel him like a man.


True dude!!!! Moore layed a CLEAN hit on Naslund.....verified by the fact that he was never fined or disciplined for the clean hit he laid on him 3 weeks ago. Why didn't the Canucks go after Moore last week in Denver? Instead they waited until a BLOWOUT to try to enact some revenge since the game was long over. Nice job by May also, taunting Aebuscher after he scored the two goals to make it a "close" game at 5-2. Fucking punk. Scoreboard prick....

Lets hope Bertuzzi is out atleast the rest of this season and that the Canucks get hammered in the first round cause the idiot took himself out for the season. Or better yet, they run into the AVs and get swept in 4 games while Moore watches on from the bench and laughs.

[Canuk]

Good luck getting anywhere in the post season with Tommy Salo as part of your dynamic goaltending duo. He's been brutal since he got hit in the head by Belarus.

[fridge]

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
But that's not what happened. They were both going for the puck, Moore knew Naslund was there and didn't change his path. You don't have to get out of the way for people in this game. If Naslund had been keeping his head up he woulda been OK.
Keep your stick on the ice and your head up, kids!

Naslund did have his head down, but Moore still hit him in the head. The Nhl always talks about how it has to protect its star players. Did you watch the World Juniors this year? Dion Phaneuf layed a devastating hit on a Czech player (shoulder hit him in the face). Phaneuf gets 5 and a game. Now, international refereeing (sp?) is different..... Even if it looked clean, it was still (now I'm repeating myself) a head shot that knocked out a leading scorer for 3 games, and drew blood. It doesn't look like much of an elbow, and thats why there wasn't league action, but there should have been a penalty called in the game.

edit-None of this matters anyway, it's what Bertuzzi did that matters right now. Since that hit on Naslund I've watched Moore play a few times, and I don't especially like the way he plays, but he still didn't deserve this.

[Vinman]

Originally posted by Canuk
Dude, are you a doctor? Do you know exactly where in this whole mele that one of his vertebrae was fractured?

If you know anything about how cervical fractures happen and I do. From watching the tape it looked to me like his neck was slightly flexed and the impact was to the top of the head as he hit the ice. This is the classic mechanism for cervical fractures. Its called axial loading. The same mechanism that causes fractures during spearing in football. IMHO there is no way the punch caused a cervical fracture. I was most definitely the impact on the ice along with the added 245 pounds of body weight of someone drivnging his head into the ice that caused the fracture. I just looked at the tape again and it looks like he was knocked out from the punch but I doubt the punch caused the fracture.

[Crinkle]

I heard this on AM radio yesterday think i'll throw this out there.

"if Moore was given even a 1 game suspension without pay, would this have occured???"

I thought it was a interesting point, since obviously the Canucks felt that they were wronged when the NHL ruled that it was a clean hit and did not punish Moore. But how many times did the guy have to fight?? (didnt watch the game but heard he dropped the gloves 2 times before Bertuzzi hit him). Also shame on Canucks manager(s) or whoever said there was a "bounty" out on Moore. Watch out this is going to be ugly for a while.

[Honc]

Originally posted by fridge

edit-None of this matters anyway, it's what Bertuzzi did that matters right now. Since that hit on Naslund I've watched Moore play a few times, and I don't especially like the way he plays, but he still didn't deserve this.

Amen.

They gave McSorley a year. Should they do the same to Bertuzzi? He didn't give out a 2-hand but the effects appear to be worse. I think that the league has to take a firm stance.

I don't like Moore's play much either, but I guarantee that his career prospects outside of hockey are pretty bleak.

[Canuk]

Originally posted by Honc
Amen.

They gave McSorley a year. Should they do the same to Bertuzzi? He didn't give out a 2-hand but the effects appear to be worse. I think that the league has to take a firm stance.


You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.

There is already pretty good precident in place that says a sucker punch to the back of the head is worth 12 games - and that came from an incident where someone's career WAS ended.

Bert will get more than 12. If I was a betting man, my money would be on 20.

[Skidawg]

Just for the record here - McSorley's NHL punishment was one year, but he "retired" at the end of the 2000 season resulting in the actual suspension to be 23 games.

[Honc]

I'd like to take a quick time-out from this hockey debate to acknowledge Canuk's sig. That sketch is arguably the funniest SNL bit I have ever seen.

George W. offers the job of 'Secretary to the Interior' to his Chi-Chis waiter. Priceless.

[duph]

Originally posted by fridge

What Bertuzzi did was stupid. I feel sick for both of them (being a big fan of Bertuzzi). But watch highlights of what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom. He blatantly punched him in the back of the head, knocked him cold. Beukeboom had concussion problems, ended up retiring. Johnson got 12 games. How can you say Bertuzzi should be kicked out of hockey when Johnson only got 12 games for this? I know Moore is pretty seriously injured, but the incidents are comparable......


No. Not close to comparable. We're talking about a broken fucking neck here. Whether he was trying to seriously injure Moore is irrelevant. It was the ugliest, most gutless act the NHL has ever seen, resulting in a severe life changing injury. The punishment should be the harshest ever handed out by the league. The rest of this year and all of next, minimum.

[DaveTV]

What was galling to me was he was on top of him while he was face-down, continuing the pummeling while the guy was helpless and unconcious with a broken neck - had to be dragged off like he was an animal..

[duph]

Originally posted by Canuk
You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.

There is already pretty good precident in place that says a sucker punch to the back of the head is worth 12 games - and that came from an incident where someone's career WAS ended.

Bert will get more than 12. If I was a betting man, my money would be on 20.

The blind side sucker punch was bad in itself, but that's not the whole of it. The action of slamming an unconscious persons head into the ice with all of your weight on his neck, then continuing to beat him in his own pool of blood is far worse than any single stick swinging incident. This wasn't just a quick hit, it was a series of ugly actions by Bertuzzi.

And yes, you can and should punish based on the result.

The result and the actions are tied together. That's what happens when you do something of that magnitude - you break a person's fucking neck. If you shoot a person in the head, they die. Cause and effect are tied into one.


edit: If McSorley jumped on Brashear after knocking him out, and started beating him, then the incidents would be comparable.

[MacDaddy]

Originally posted by Canuk
Good luck getting anywhere in the post season with Tommy Salo as part of your dynamic goaltending duo. He's been brutal since he got hit in the head by Belarus.

Hey Canuk I respect your opinions especially because you are a hockey fan.
IMHO When Bertuzzi sucker punched him and deliberately drove him into the ice and punched him again,
I think his emotions got the best the best of him, I dont care what any one says I will always believe his act was premiditaded & he had the intent to hurt. Bertuzzi punched & drove the kid into ice, that is the bottom line. He's screwed and so is his team as they are not as strong with out him. Its too bad that such a stud has such little brain. I like Bertuzzi and I almost feel sorry for him. I just hope everyone learns from this.


FYI: Salo was not brought on to start. he will play behind David Aberischer.

I think this is what the Avalanche needed to play in the next level.(Red Wings) we will see tonight against EDM

[Canuk]

Originally posted by Honc
I'd like to take a quick time-out from this hockey debate to acknowledge Canuk's sig. That sketch is arguably the funniest SNL bit I have ever seen.

George W. offers the job of 'Secretary to the Interior' to his Chi-Chis waiter. Priceless.

Aw...shucks. Thanks Honc. It's one of my all time favorites as well. Will Ferrell's GWB impression is a classic.

Duph - we are comparing a fractured vertibrae (which we do not no the severity of - I am sure there are a number of maggots here who have suffered a fractured vertibrae and still ski hard) with perminent brain injury. I think that the comparison is fair.

[jibij]

Bertuzzi's actions are clearly punishable, but is he the only one at fault? the league breeds this shit. i wasn't at the game, but accounts from Avs players and Granato is that Crawford stood in the box laughing during the incident. Granato was going off on him from over the glass when he saw his "body language". i'm sure Crawford changed his tone when he realized the severity, but regardless he apparently got a kick out of Bertuzzi's sucker-punch.
the coach shares some responsibility if he's reinforcing this kinda shit.

[duph]

Originally posted by Canuk
Duph - we are comparing a fractured vertibrae (which we do not no the severity of - I am sure there are a number of maggots here who have suffered a fractured vertibrae and still ski hard) with perminent brain injury. I think that the comparison is fair.

Hmmm... I do see your point, though it wasn't Beukebooms first or second concussion. The next time Lindros gets laid out, his career probably will end, but it won't be due to a one time incident. It will be because he's had a bunch of them.

edit: Yeah jibij, that's a really good point. The Canucks as a whole should also be punished with a stiff fine or something. As well as severe punishment for the individual who carried out the act.

And agreed Canuk, 88 should 86 his career before he ruins his life.

[Squirrel99]

Well, one thing's for certain... this will take away some attention of the av's - red wings rivalry. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more quick whistles on the ice over the next few weeks and into the early rounds of the playoffs as the refs and league try to assert a little more control. Any word on Moore's condition?

[Canuk]

Originally posted by duph
Hmmm... I do see your point, though it wasn't Beukebooms first or second concussion. The next time Lindros gets laid out, his career probably will end, but it won't be due to a one time incident. It will be because he's had a bunch of them.

It will also be because Eric likes to skate around looking at his feet. That guy needs to hang it up.

I agree that hitting the poor kid while he was down was pretty weak. Bertuzzi definately let his emotions get the best of him and lost it, and he will have to pay the piper for it. It's too bad, because not only did he hurt Moore, he hurt his reputation, as well as his team's shot in the playoff's.

MacDaddy - I know that Tommy ain't going to start. My comment was just that of a slightly bitter Oilers fan getting one last dig on on a goalie that is way better than he played for the last two years.

Sorry for the hijack, but I heard an interesting rumour surrounding Salo, Mike Comrie, and why the Oilers played such hardball with the little puke (Comrie, not Tommy). Rumour has it that Mike was shagging Salo's wife, which is a big reason why the Oilers shipped him out. Like sands through the hourglass....

[FLEX]

I'm not a hockey fan so I'm not too concerned with the punishment but after viewing the tape ...I say the one punch hit him right on the button and he was out before he hit the ice, and the damage was done from face hitting the ice.....I hope he recovers fully and quickly

[Greydon Clark]

Originally posted by Canuk


Sorry for the hijack, but I heard an interesting rumor surrounding Salo, Mike Comrie, and why the Oilers played such hardball with the little puke (Comrie, not Tommy). Rumor has it that Mike was shagging Salo's wife, which is a big reason why the Oilers shipped him out. Like sands through the hourglass....

Lindros was shagging a teammates wife in Philadelphia, can't remember who, he got traded, but not before he got an ass kicking in the locker room. What a fuckhead.

[L7]

Yesterday's thread mentioned that Moore turned away when his jersey was grabbed. Today's and yesterday's mention that Bertuzzi's momentum caused him to 'fall on top' of Moore. I saw the clip two or three times last night including slo mo and I have to call bullshit on both counts. Moore turned toward the fist that he didn't see coming and only fell away (likely unconscious) after the punch. Bertuzzi was pulling back on the jersey to connect the hit and did not just 'fall on him'. He drove Moore's head quite purposefully and forcefully into the ice.

Did he really mean to do as much damage as he did? Probably not but he certain tried harder to maximize the damage then he tried to control the damage. The continued pummeling proves that. There were some interesting quotes in today's paper about. Do we want to wait until coroners are being called to arenas? It's getting worse and it was bad enough when the biggest star had to retire early in part due to repeated cheap shots from behind into the boards.

It doesn't matter if it gets better for a bit and 4 years later there's another brutal incident just a little worse than this one. The league, the coaches and the players have to fix it or there may not be much left to fix.

[powderpyg]

Originally posted by Honc

Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him. I am all for teaching this kid a lesson, but have Bertuzzi drop his gloves and pummel him like a man.


Todd Bertuzzi skated full steam cross-ice, wound up and drilled Steve Moore in the side of the head, breaking his neck.



Number 1, you actually beleive that Moore's hit on Naslund was clean do you. He might have connected cleanly with his shoulder, but he left his skates from the ice and jumped at Naslund to make sure he hit him harder. Watch the replay, you'll see what I mean.

Number 2, Bertuzzi never skated full steam across the ice, wound up and drilled Moore in the head, breaking his neck. Again watch the replay, you'll see that Bertuzzi was skating behind Moore, pulling on his jersey trying to goad him into something, Moore turned and skated the other way, Bert grabbed his jersey again pulled himself forward and punched him with his glove on, which I'm sure never cracked his vertebrae. That most likely happened after his head hit the ice and Bert and others piled on.

Number 3, I agree that Bert is a cement head and needs to be suspended for his actions, but tossed from the game, get real.

Numder 4, I am again going to state, that, what the fuck was Tony Granato doing putting Moore on the ice in that situation for in the first place, it was only asking for trouble.

[powslut]

Originally posted by Canuk
You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.



yeah, but who's to say that a hockey glove isn't a weapon? those things are fucking hard and i'm sure the reason that Moore got KO'd is because he caught the the thumb right in the temple.

fuck him. let him burn. in real life the consequences are what determines the punishment.

[maddog]

Where I work if I punch a co-worker, I get fired. If I get convicted of a felony, I get fired. If I fail a drug test, I get fired. If I choke my boss, I get fired. I'm boycotting all pro sports until I see a pro athlete get fired for for his immature, unprofessional and/or illegal conduct. They can all go straight to Texas (oops, I meant to say Hell)!

[jdabasin]

Originally posted by maddog
Where I work if I punch a co-worker, I get fired. If I get convicted of a felony, I get fired. If I fail a drug test, I get fired. If I choke my boss, I get fired. I'm boycotting all pro sports until I see a pro athlete get fired for for his immature, unprofessional and/or illegal conduct. They can all go straight to Texas (oops, I meant to say Hell)!

great point maddog!! didn't think of that one. I say launch Bertuzzi for as long as Moore is out and then add another month on top of that.

And I bet if I got caught fucking my boss' wife I assume I'd get fired also. The catch is that she also works for the company as an accountant. Do you think she'd get fired too if her husband/my boss found out we were bumping uglies?

not that we are.....

[DaveTV]

I am again going to state, that, what the fuck was Tony Granato doing putting Moore on the ice in that situation for in the first place, it was only asking for trouble.
So what were they supposed to bench him every time they played Vancouver? Bullshit. McSorley's lawyer was on CNN this morning, and he said the big dif with this case from a legal standpoint was PREMEDITATION..

[dewey]

Bertuzzzi out for the season!
he said, in an apology to Moore... "I never intended to hurt you..."
!?!?!?
what a fucking insincere sack of shit.
if you apologize, shouldn't you at least admit you totally fucked up royally?

[Unorthodox]

That's what I do when I don't want or intend to hurt someone: I attack them from behind then drive their face into the ground. Seems about right. What a sack O' crap.

[Crinkle]

VERDICT IS IN:
suspended for the rest of the year and post season play
$250,000 fine to the Canucks
has to reapply to the league to play next year

and Canadian authorities are looking into it.

[half-fast]

I thought it was bad-but its not in the same league as going after somebody with a stick


Where I work if I punch a co-worker, I get fired. If I get convicted of a felony, I get fired. If I fail a drug test, I get fired. If I choke my boss, I get fired.

if you threw a clean hip check at a co-worker you get fired, too
where do you draw the line for bringing the law into sports?

[Canuk]

For those of you who didn't see it - I'm assuming Dewey was one of them - here is what Bertuzzi said at his press conference:

"These comments are for Steve.

"Steve, I just want to apologize for what happened out there. I had no intention of hurting you and I feel awful for what has transpired.

"To Steve's family, I'm sorry that you had to go through this and I'm sorry again for what happened out there.

"I'm relieved to hear that Steve will have a full recovery. It means a lot to me to hear that's going to happen."

"I want to apologize to Mr. Burke and (Canucks owner) Mr. (John) McCaw, the Vancouver Canuck organization, and my teammates," he said.

"To the fans of hockey and the fans of Vancouver and the kids that watch this game, I'm truly sorry. I don't play the game that way. I'm not a mean-spirited person and I'm sorry for what happened."

Having watched it, it seemed pretty sincere to me - either that or the guy deserves an oscar for crying the entire way through it.

It's a horrible thing to see, a huge black mark on the game, and most importantly a terrible thing for Steve Moore. I think that the league did a good job with the suspension. Taking a guy like Bertuzzi out for the playoffs is like taking anyone of us out of some of the deepest powder days of our lives. It's a concequence that will change the way he plays the game.

[dewey]

Actually, I did see that. That is exactly what I am talking about.

He says, "I am sorry for what happened out there." - As if it just "happened," like he didn't seek the dude out and try to hurt him.

I am sure Bertuzzi is sincere that he wished this never happened - especially now that he is in a media shitstorm and out half a mil. But come the fuck on! "I never meant to hurt you."?!!??
Does he really expect anyone who's seen the video or Moore himself to believe that. He DID mean to hurt him. He should apologize for being such a brainless thug, and say it was wrong, and he should change.
"What happened out there..." that's a fucking cop-out.

[Skidawg]

So the ending result was a done for this season, including the team's playoffs. The Canucks lose one of the best power forwards in the league and their chances of winning are hurt. Then a reinstatement request before next year, with Moore's recovery status being taken into account. He is expected to make a full recovery, but they haven't mentioned that in hockey context much.

All in all I'd say that's fair.

[Canuk]

Originally posted by dewey
Actually, I did see that. That is exactly what I am talking about.

He says, "I am sorry for what happened out there." - As if it just "happened," like he didn't seek the dude out and try to hurt him.

I am sure Bertuzzi is sincere that he wished this never happened - especially now that he is in a media shitstorm and out half a mil. But come the fuck on! "I never meant to hurt you."?!!??
Does he really expect anyone who's seen the video or Moore himself to believe that. He DID mean to hurt him. He should apologize for being such a brainless thug, and say it was wrong, and he should change.
"What happened out there..." that's a fucking cop-out.

Dewey, you seem to have amazing powers of perception. Knowing that he meant to hurt him, and that he is only sorry because is is out $500K. On top of that, it must be nice to have never done anything you regret, or to have never made a poor choice in the heat of the moment.

Get off your highhorse. Sure he meant to punch him, and maybe he even meant to hit him with a cheap shot. But to think that he intended to end his season, and hosiptalize Moore, you have to be joking. Hate the act as much as you like, but don't try to tell me that you know what he was thinking, or intended to do.

[Greydon Clark]

Originally posted by Canuk

Sure he meant to punch him, and maybe he even meant to hit him with a cheap shot. But to think that he intended to end his season, and hosiptalize Moore, you have to be joking. Hate the act as much as you like, but don't try to tell me that you know what he was thinking, or intended to do.

Unless you're a sociopathic Neanderthal you don't intend to break the guys neck, but intent is irrelevant when you do. It was a cheap shot with dire consequences to the individual, Moore, and the sport of hockey. This type of play deserves sever punishment. (This incident is the only coverage the league will get many US markets, that doesn't help with TV contracts or with "growing" the sport.) Personally a year suspension would be appropriate, the fine, and the Canucks should pay Moore's salary while he is injured.

[Canuk]

Originally posted by Greydon Clark
Unless you're a sociopathic Neanderthal you don't intend to break the guys neck, but intent is irrelevant when you do. It was a cheap shot with dire consequences to the individual, Moore, and the sport of hockey. This type of play deserves sever punishment. (This incident is the only coverage the league will get many US markets, that doesn't help with TV contracts or with "growing" the sport.) Personally a year suspension would be appropriate, the fine, and the Canucks should pay Moore's salary while he is injured.

I agree totally with you regarding hurting the sport in the US, Greydon. This event will only hurt the perception that hockey has in the US. It is already viewed as a bit of a good sport, and Mr. Bertuzzi has only reinforced that.

The Canuck's fine, as well as Bertuzzi's $500K in salary that he is loosing is going into the NHL's 'Player's Emergency Assistance Fund'. I am not exactly sure what that is, but I am sure that they will be helping out Mr. Moore. I hope the kid is back on skates soon.....

[duph]

Bertuzzi deserved at least as much as he got. Not just for what he did to Moore, but what he's done to hockey. As if there weren't enough people already who thought it was too barbaric. How many parents on the fence will be putting their kids into basketball instead now?

I think there's a good chance he won't be playing at all next season either - if only because it seems there won't be an NHL season next year...

About his apology - I doubt it's a coincidence that he did that AFTER he had his 1 hour meeting in Toronto. He did seem sincere enough, but I bet a public apology was really the first part of his punishment.

[fridge]

Originally posted by dewey
Bertuzzzi out for the season!
he said, in an apology to Moore... "I never intended to hurt you..."
!?!?!?
what a fucking insincere sack of shit.
if you apologize, shouldn't you at least admit you totally fucked up royally?

I'm not a lawyer, but considering he is under investigation, I'm pretty sure he was advised to choose his words carefully.

Check out this link
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/top10/hockey_lowlights.html

I know this is a different era, but when you fracture someone's skull with your stick and get a 30 day suspension, I'd say what Bertuzzi got was harsh (but deserved).

Plus, Bertuzzi's suspension isn't final. It's been left open so he might not end up playing in the world's, as well as the start of next season.

[Eldo]

Canuk seems to be mostly alone in defending the guy, so I asked my sportswriter buddy who has covered the NHL for years for an assessment of Bertuzzi as a person, and not just a pro hockey player.

His reply: "A jerk and a bully."

The NHL is full of guys for whom this incident would have been totally out of character. But it doesn't sound like Bertuzzi is one of them.

[DaveTV]

He did it before in January (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/recaps/2003/01/21/nas_van/)
Bertuzzi showed his frustration in the final seconds, breaking Nashville defenseman Karlis Skrastins' nose with a punch and receiving a double-minor for roughing.

"I think Todd Bertuzzi is an outstanding player, but he basically sucker-punched Karlis Skrastins," Trotz said. "What he did was unacceptable. I believe that he should be suspended and the league will deal with it. It doesn't belong in our game."

[778skier]

Originally posted by DaveTV
He did it before in January (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/recaps/2003/01/21/nas_van/)
Bertuzzi showed his frustration in the final seconds, breaking Nashville defenseman Karlis Skrastins' nose with a punch and receiving a double-minor for roughing.

"I think Todd Bertuzzi is an outstanding player, but he basically sucker-punched Karlis Skrastins," Trotz said. "What he did was unacceptable. I believe that he should be suspended and the league will deal with it. It doesn't belong in our game."


Irrelevant, i'd be honestly suprised if there's a single NHL player out there who's never dished out some kind of sucker punch.

Another note, to think about, if he really, really intended to hurt Moore badly, dont you think there's better ways to do it? I mean personnaly if i wanted to actually hurt someone, i'd atleast take my glove off before i hit them and i'd probably make sure i hit them when they werent wearing a helmet. I'd also probably use my stick or my skate or do it up against the boards or something else more damaging.

As to the sportswriter quote above, he probably got dissed by bertuzzi in an interview and is now bitter.

[powderpyg]

Originally posted by DaveTV
So what were they supposed to bench him every time they played Vancouver? Bullshit. McSorley's lawyer was on CNN this morning, and he said the big dif with this case from a legal standpoint was PREMEDITATION..

I don't beleive that is what I stated. I was talking about this game particular, the score was 8-2, shit had been simmering all game long. Moore fought Cooke, but refused to go with others trying to start things. So, I say Granato knew putting him back on the ice would cause trouble.

Give me a break it was PREMEDITATION. Your telling me that Bert decided two weeks ago, that he was going to skate up to Moore from behind, sucker him and then drive his head into the ice...RIIIGHT. He was skating behind Moore, trying to get him to fight and when Moore turned to skate away, he snapped and we don't need to go any further with what happened, but I hardly think it was premeditated. A bunch of guys on the Canucks said he'd get his payback, right after Naslund was knocked out, that was in the heat of the moment and who doesn't say shit like that when things are heated. You don't think that Colorado players wouldn't have said the same thing if let's say Joe Sakic had been laid out, instead of Naslund. If you do, I think your a little nieve.

On another note. I like how Granato says how there's no place for this shyte in the game. I seem to remember a few years ago, when Tony played for L.A. he got suspended for two handing somebody in the head with his stick. I wish I could remember how long he was suspended for?

Nice sentence. Let's see we'll give him 12 games, then all of the playoffs and then, wellll, if we decide that we think he is repentant enough we might let him play next year. Make your friggin minds up give him however many games your gunna give him and be done with it.

[Greydon Clark]

Originally posted by 778skier
Irrelevant, i'd be honestly suprised if there's a single NHL player out there who's never dished out some kind of sucker punch.

Lots of players have class. That is why they have the Ladybing.



Another note, to think about, if he really, really intended to hurt Moore badly, dont you think there's better ways to do it? I mean personnaly if i wanted to actually hurt someone, i'd atleast take my glove off before i hit them and i'd probably make sure i hit them when they werent wearing a helmet. I'd also probably use my stick or my skate or do it up against the boards or something else more damaging.



You're suggesting he should have kicked him? What kind of fucking asshole are you? Try buying some class or at least a clue, until then I hope you stick to broom ball, at least you'll be able to beat up on chicks.

[DaveTV]

Originally posted by 778skier
Irrelevant, i'd be honestly suprised if there's a single NHL player out there who's never dished out some kind of sucker punch.

Dude are you watchin NHL games, or that old VHS of "SlapShot"??

[778skier]

GC: Asshole? No, but thats exactly my point, neither is bertuzzi. What i was trying to say was they if he REALLY wanted to injure someone that would be one way to do it, not punch someone with your glove on. I'll buy a clue when you learn to read.

DTV:, a sucker punch that doesnt break a nose or draw attention is still a sucker punch. The fact that it breaks a nose is usually luck. They happen every game, and i'd laugh if anyone told me they played more than a year in any type of hockey and never threw a single sucker punch.


More on Bertuzzis "Intent", from backbertuzzi.com

"Did he really mean to "drive Moore's face into the ice?" It is out opinion at BackBertuzzi.com that, that's simply not true and that it makes for a more drastic story for the media so they are obviously trying to drum it up, however one viewer has sent us some evidence that may suggest that Bertuzzi may have tripped over a stick which caused him to loose balance. Check out the photo,"
http://www.backbertuzzi.com/Trip.htm

[seldon]

Originally posted by 778skier


More on Bertuzzis "Intent", from backbertuzzi.com

"Did he really mean to "drive Moore's face into the ice?" It is out opinion at BackBertuzzi.com that, that's simply not true and that it makes for a more drastic story for the media so they are obviously trying to drum it up, however one viewer has sent us some evidence that may suggest that Bertuzzi may have tripped over a stick which caused him to loose balance. Check out the photo,"
http://www.backbertuzzi.com/Trip.htm

tripped on a stick?? that, sir, is bullshit. He already owned up to it. He didn't trip on a frikin stick, he did it by choice. I'm not sure if you're BACKING this viewpoint, but if you were, then you probably haven't seen the pictures/vids

[DaveTV]

i'd laugh if anyone told me they played more than a year in any type of hockey and never threw a single sucker punch.
Well u better laugh cause I never did it, and played a good bit in my youth.

[powslut]

Originally posted by 778skier


"Did he really mean to "drive Moore's face into the ice?" It is out opinion at BackBertuzzi.com that, that's simply not true and that it makes for a more drastic story for the media so they are obviously trying to drum it up, however one viewer has sent us some evidence that may suggest that Bertuzzi may have tripped over a stick which caused him to loose balance. Check out the photo,"
http://www.backbertuzzi.com/Trip.htm

yeah thats just great. he tripped over his own stick after he dropped it to sucker punch Moore. that justifies everything :rolleyes: .

By the way...why are we raising such a stink about Bertuzzi playing next season? Everyone knows that there isn't going to be a next season.

[duph]

Originally posted by 778skier
They happen every game, and i'd laugh if anyone told me they played more than a year in any type of hockey and never threw a single sucker punch.




20+ years, never. Not once. Where I grew up that got you suspended for at least a game.

edit: Yeah, there were a few players I saw in youth/hs leagues that would do that. They'd get punished, thaen do it again. 9 times out of 10 it was because they were frustrated at being such shitty hockey players.

[maddog]

if you threw a clean hip check at a co-worker you get fired, too
where do you draw the line for bringing the law into sports? [/B][/QUOTE]


I draw the line at the rules of the game. A hip check is part of the game of hockey ( as far as I know). So is a great block in football or a collision at the plate in baseball. Punching people is not a part of any game I know except boxing, and in a civilized society, people who punch others at work (even if work is playing a game) should be fired, charged with assault and thrown in jail. That's what would happen to me, and just about anyone else on this board. It made me sick to watch that fat old manager throw a punch at, and get thrown to the ground by the pitcher at the world series, and it makes me sick to see these immature, pitiful, assholes we call athletes commit felonies and get "suspended." Throw their sorry butts in jail. I'll buy tickets or watch games on TV when that happens. Until then I'm through with college and pro sports... and good riddance.

[duph]

Originally posted by maddog

I'm through with college and pro sports... and good riddance.


But you participate in this forum, right? You don't let the occasional asshole make you quit reading it do you?

Unfortunately you are not alone in viewing these ugly incidents as the norm in sports. You're letting a few bad apples keep you out of the orchard. Cheap shots like Bertuzzi's are what the media thrives on, and those are the types of things they shove in your face over and over again.

When someone scores a beautiful goal, hits a home run or runs 90 yards for a touchdown - those aren't headlines. Blood and violence are headlines. Hate the media, not the game.

[maddog]

Originally posted by duph
But you participate in this forum, right? You don't let the occasional asshole make you quit reading it do you?

Unfortunately you are not alone in viewing these ugly incidents as the norm in sports. You're letting a few bad apples keep you out of the orchard. Cheap shots like Bertuzzi's are what the media thrives on, and those are the types of things they shove in your face over and over again.

When someone scores a beautiful goal, hits a home run or runs 90 yards for a touchdown - those aren't headlines. Blood and violence are headlines. Hate the media, not the game.


...If a substantial number of people on this board started committing violent crimes, yes, I would quit reading it. The media is not committing these violent acts, the athletes are, and will continue to do so as long as they are condoned by fans and managers of the sports industry. It's all about big money, and they won't be getting any more of mine. I'll find my beauty in art, nature, literature, etc. I don't hate the game, I hate what the game has become.

[seldon]

I'm curious to know where you think something stops being an "acceptable foul" and starts being a felony. Take this instance:

HS Lacrosse game last year. One of our players hits this guy, real knockdown hit, but is a little off and slams him in the facemask instead of the chest, which is where it was aimed. Helmet pops off (the straps weren't tight enough), kid ends up with a concusion.

Ref calls a slash b/c it was a hit to the head. 1 minute penalty, nothing else.


No questions asked as to whether this was a felony, even though this was "outside of the rules".



I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point, but should the leagues have guidelines for what constitues an acceptable, intentional foul (intentional fouling in bball, intimidation fouling in lacrosse/football/hockey) and what is simply OUT of line?

I think they should. And I think the primary criteria should be intention to injure. If I'm just pushing from behind on a loose ball to intimidate a kid, fine, but if I'm slamming him into the ground and trying to break his knees, then it crosses over into an area where I personally should be liable for that.

NOTE: I have never, and never intend to, slam a kid into the ground to break his knees.

[powderpyg]

Originally posted by maddog
...If a substantial number of people on this board started committing violent crimes, yes, I would quit reading it. The media is not committing these violent acts, the athletes are, and will continue to do so as long as they are condoned by fans and managers of the sports industry. It's all about big money, and they won't be getting any more of mine. I'll find my beauty in art, nature, literature, etc. I don't hate the game, I hate what the game has become.

You'll be sadly miseed:rolleyes: !

[duph]

Originally posted by maddog
...If a substantial number of people on this board started committing violent crimes, yes, I would quit reading it. The media is not committing these violent acts, the athletes are, and will continue to do so as long as they are condoned by fans and managers of the sports industry. It's all about big money, and they won't be getting any more of mine. I'll find my beauty in art, nature, literature, etc. I don't hate the game, I hate what the game has become.

You've emphasized my point. The game hasn't changed(in terms of violence), the media coverage has. Your perception of hockey is what the media has been feeding you. There are NOT a substantial # of players commiting acts like this. Not even one half of one percent of games feature ugliness anywhere near that bad. There were a bunch of hockey games today. Yesterday too. But what highlights have you been seeing over and over again? The media IS guilty of portraying the NHL the way you are perceiving it. In reality, for every ugly play, there are a million things of beauty. But you're only being shown that one ugly one, and you're buying into what you're being fed, by the worst perpetrators of ugliness imagineable - THE MEDIA.

[fridge]

Originally posted by powslut
yeah, but who's to say that a hockey glove isn't a weapon? those things are fucking hard and i'm sure the reason that Moore got KO'd is because he caught the the thumb right in the temple.

Wow, I don't know what kind of gloves you played with, but if I was getting pummeled I'd give anything for the guy to leave his glove on.


Originally posted by duph
20+ years, never. Not once. Where I grew up that got you suspended for at least a game.

edit: Yeah, there were a few players I saw in youth/hs leagues that would do that. They'd get punished, thaen do it again. 9 times out of 10 it was because they were frustrated at being such shitty hockey players.

I dont know where you grew up, but I see this type of stuff all the time. It would probably take me both hands to count the number of games I've been in where somebody has been taken off on a stretcher. Is this something I'm proud of? Fuck no. But from what I've seen, the act of what Bertuzzi did wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen, but the consequence was pretty horrible. Maybe I'm just more de-sensitized to all of this stuff.

I'd ask the people who are referring to Bertuzzi as a "jerk and a bully" and saying he should be banned for life never to come watch a small town junior hockey game in Saskatchewan, Alberta, or BC. You'll see some great skill, but you'll also see many things that you don't like.

Hockey is a great game, and my favorite sport to watch (the most exciting in my opinion), and you're right, the game hasn't changed much in violence, but now it seems like all of a sudden people are realizing that it is sometimes a violent sport.

It doesn't really matter what we say now anyway, he's been suspended for injuring another player, and that's that. I hope this makes sense because I'm pretty drunk right now.

[Canuk]

Originally posted by Eldo
Canuk seems to be mostly alone in defending the guy, so I asked my sportswriter buddy who has covered the NHL for years for an assessment of Bertuzzi as a person, and not just a pro hockey player.

His reply: "A jerk and a bully."

The NHL is full of guys for whom this incident would have been totally out of character. But it doesn't sound like Bertuzzi is one of them.

Eldo - I'm not defending the action - I'm just standing up to everyone who seems to think that Bertuzzi stepped on the ice that night with the intent to end this kids career.

And in response to your sportswriter buddy - no surprize that he doesn't like Bert, no sportswriter does because he isn't a media bitch.

[Canuk]

Originally posted by seldon
And I think the primary criteria should be intention to injure. If I'm just pushing from behind on a loose ball to intimidate a kid, fine, but if I'm slamming him into the ground and trying to break his knees, then it crosses over into an area where I personally should be liable for that.


Seldon - you are seriously trying to tell me that you can watch an act, and determine intent from that act? Result does not always indicate intent. It I am driving my car and swerve to miss an animal, and loose control and crash into your car, was my intent to hit your car? No. It was a result of an action that I took.

Duph - fanstasic point on the state of the game. The media has really taken notice of violent incidents in hockey, and they have helped create the preception that it is a barbaric game.

When was the last time anyone talked about Latrell Spreewell choking P.J. Carlissimo? Every sport has had a player - or players - that have lost it in the heat of the moment.

[Eldo]

Originally posted by Canuk
...in response to your sportswriter buddy - no surprize that he doesn't like Bert, no sportswriter does because he isn't a media bitch.

No, there are lots of players who are not "media bitches" but are still highly thought of by the writers who cover the NHL (and hockey fans who read the papers).

Apparently Bertuzzi really is a jerk and a bully.

(Let me guess, you have him in a hockey pool. ;) )

[Canuk]

Originally posted by Eldo
No, there are lots of players who are not "media bitches" but are still highly thought of by the writers who cover the NHL (and hockey fans who read the papers).

Apparently Bertuzzi really is a jerk and a bully.

(Let me guess, you have him in a hockey pool. ;) )

Nope - not in the hockey pool. Not even a particularly big fan of the Canuck's. Just a hockey fan.

Bert is a big, strong, physical player. He thrives on emotion, and this time emotion got the best of him.

[duph]

Well I'm not one of those who think he should be banned for life. I do think it's right that he's being punished harshly. Of course he didn't intend to nearly kill the guy, but the fact remains he almost did. What he did was thoughtless, reckless and dangerous.

Maybe the stiff punishment will help keep him and others in check when emotions start boiling over in the future. I hope so. And hopefully Moore's current state will serve as a reminder to players that their opponents are human, and human life is fragile.

There will be more cheap shots in the future; hopefully they'll be a bit more 'calculated' as to what the possible concquences will be. Remember Travis Roy? Checked from behind head first into the boards, paralyzed for life. Yeah, shit happens, but it can be minimized with a little more care.

[fridge]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=kelley_jim&id=1757143#

I don't know if this guy is Canadian or not, but this is one of the reasons why I refuse to listen to American hockey announcers.

When me and my brother have played down in the States, there's way too much stickwork, because there is no fear of retaliation. Maybe we're all just greasy thugs.

[duph]

You're right fridge, that guy basically said that canadians are what's wrong with hockey. Totally absurd.

Ironic about your experience against US teams. The teams we played in Quebec were dirtier with their sticks than any other teams we played. It's probably more specific to region than which side of the border a team is from.

[fridge]

Originally posted by duph
Ironic about your experience against US teams. The teams we played in Quebec were dirtier with their sticks than any other teams we played. It's probably more specific to region than which side of the border a team is from.

I know exactly what you mean, Quebec players actually are super dirty. When they played here they would get everyone so riled up with their antics, and then you'd go to hit them and they'd basically lay down on the ice to avoid a body check. Its funny now when I look back at it.

[el_jefe]

uum ok, i'll weigh in on this one.

i think it's right that bertuzzi is out for the rest of the season and the playoffs. its only fair given the ferocity of the hit he laid down - even if the resulting injury wasn't "intentional".

furthermore, i think the NHL should reserve the right to ban bertuzzi from NHL play for the rest of his life IF - and only if - the injuries to moore prove to be career ending. that would send a message to all players that anyone who lays down a potentially career ending hit like bertuzzi's runs the risk of ending their OWN career...

game on!

[Canuk]

Originally posted by fridge
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=kelley_jim&id=1757143#

I don't know if this guy is Canadian or not, but this is one of the reasons why I refuse to listen to American hockey announcers.

When me and my brother have played down in the States, there's way too much stickwork, because there is no fear of retaliation. Maybe we're all just greasy thugs.

Jim Kelly is a douchebag. Plain and simple. If he was going to write a column on violence in hockey, you need to include Gary Suter's hit on Paul Karya in 1998. But rather than get to the heat of the matter, he chooses to villify Canadian hockey players.

Way to throw around a bunch of stats, Jim. Of course you are going to be able to prove that the Canadians are the dirty ones. Canadians have always - and will most likely always - make up the majority of the players in the NHL. Way to prove your point. No talk about 'can openers' or any other such move popularized by Europeans. What about the Havlat incident a few weeks ago? Way to omit those.

There are going to be dumb-asses in every culture, country, and walk of life, but this guys article is a crock of biased horse shit.