Loveland Pass and BC JONGs (vent)

[Summit]

xfer post

had to vent

If you want to learn BC safety, ski loveland pass and do exactly the opposite of whatall the fucking gapers there do.

I've never seen the stupidity I have there.

Here are just a few selections from ONE day (with CAIC rating of considerable near and above treeline):

1. Four riders stand on Kitchen Wall cornice for 10 minutes before 1 gets the balls to jump off the cornice... which he then stands directly below for another 10 minutes before all his friends jump in and stand right next to him under the cornice for a LONG fucking time... then they do a sickety sick traverse across the entire wall under the cornice all together... :rolleyes:

2. 3 boarders build a kicker on the east ridge of the pass and their LZ is ontop of a cornice that has already half broken and slid a short distance. Plus they had no run up to the kicker so it was idiotic for that too.

3. Solo skiers hitting Kitchen Wall, Atlantic Bowl, Idiots Cornice, Professor, and skiing over convexities and stopping in runouts... alone.

4. Boottracks STRAIGHT UP kitchen wall under cornices and through starting zone.

5. 3 people skiing down together on Kitchen wall and eating shit all the way then stopping for 10 minutes in a runout.

6. Tons of people with no packs or avvy gear.

Me (wearing mountain rescue sticker and avy gear standing with dive rescue friend who has full gear too)
"Where is your avvy gear?"

Idiot (no gear... not even a pack or helmet)
"Avvy gear?"

My Friend "Avalanche rescue gear"

Idiot "I don't need that shit! Loveland never slides! I'm just going off the road and thats safe" points to atlantic bowl

Me "Look at that, that, and that" (pointing to fresh slides on both sides of the pass) "People have died here and where you are going skiing is a runout zone. How do you think those chutes through the trees formed?"

Idiot "Whatever... I've never seen it slide... Maybe if I was going out there" (points at Grizzly) "I don't even need that shit for Professor" (walks away)

[longrange]

for sure LV pass is full of jongerage... I have seen many slides there myself and i rarely see anyone with even a helmet...thats why i choose BP all the way

[drifter75]

I hear you Summit, straight up junk show!

As long as we are venting:

I was headed up Wolf Creek Pass over New Years, it's a puking white-out (44" of new snow). West side of the pass is closed by a slide. I ski all day while it continues to dump. Head back down the pass at the end of the day and run into a slide on the east side. Lucky for me a lane was cut for one vehicle to get though. As I approach the debris I realize that these dipshits are building a kicker in the debris field launching the gap and creating a bootpack on the slope that had slid (maybe 35 degrees) directly beneath a 3 foot crown, with plenty of snow left to release. All while it continues to snow at least an inch an hour.

Sometime you just gotta wonder.........Darwinism.

[snowfire]

Originally posted by drifter75
.........Darwinism.

word.

[midget]

let em clean out the gene pool

[char]

Just curious, but were you at Loveland waiting for something to happen, kind of a good placement of resources? Or as someone who felt they needed to point out that someone didn't have avy gear?

Yes, it sounds like alot of stupid and irresponsible stuff is going on but in my opinion it's not your place to point out to every idiot that he doesn't have the proper gear. Even as a SAR staff member.

There is no requirment to carry the gear and if someone wants to they can go without, and frankly I don't care so long as they don't kill me while they are at it.

"A venturesome minority will always be eager to set off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks, for godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American."

-E. Abbey

[Summit]

char: i was at the pass to ski dave's wave with my friend. the conversation took place at the pass summit parking lot while my friend and I were gearing up the idiot and his buddies drove up. i feel its my duty as a bc skier to heckle those who aren't being safe

(yes, though, after joining SAR, the thought of heckling potentially preventing a callout that would cause me to to drop whatever i'm doing (skiing (it's happened), working (it's happened), etc) to rush off somewhere has encouraged me though i heckle no more than before)

but its about my safety too. and my friends. these BC jongs are the fuckers who ski across the trigger zone above you in avalanche terrain because they dont know any better.

i should note a bright side: while we were digging our pit above dave's wave, a pair of boarders who did have gear etc stopped and helped us dig a rutchblock for a test and then skied down with us. that was refreshing.

[fez]

Originally posted by char


Even as a SAR staff member....

frankly I don't care so long as they don't kill me while they are at it.



Anyone who through their own negligence requires SAR to be called out during a period of considerable avalance danger is risking the lives of the people who are there for the rescue.

Also in a popular area, stupidity uphill can have consequences for those downhill, a slide started above can wipe out people below.

[char]

I was going to edit that whole thing out because it's not what I really wanted to say, but I think I'll just let my stupidity stand and see what happens.

[Twoplanker]

Originally posted by char
I was going to edit that whole thing out because it's not what I really wanted to stay, but I think I'll just let my stupidity stand and see what happens.

I liked your quote and sort of agree with both perspectives. People have the right to kill themselves but props to Summit for letting them know they're in danger and potentially endangering others.

[char]

Originally posted by Twoplanker
People have the right to kill themselves but props to Summit for letting them know they're in danger and potentially endangering others.

Yeah, Summit cleared it up. I don't think it's appropriate for him to stand there and tell every guy that walks by in the parking lot that he should have avy gear, but if he is going on the hill himself he is entirely within his bounds to berate some idiot for putting him and others in danger. Just a difference of telling people to play safe and acting as a pseudo-cop.

edit: Goddamn, I cannot spell for shit.

[Squirrel99]

It's definitely a danger especially when the Junkshow decides to join you. I've seen it happpen more times than I can count when I used to ride at The Canyons. Four of us skinned out to the Cinder (which is known to be a notorious slide path) with intentions of digging a pit, ski-cutting, and determine stability, etc... Out of nowhere, appear 3 boarders and then 2 skiers. No gear- as one skis up and starts toward Cinder while my buddy is only 3 turns into it. We had to yell at him and pretty much threaten to kick their ass.:mad: It was a sketch line, but the last thing we needed were the no common sense crew to hijack a dangerous line above us. Seen that happen earlier at Alpental a few times this year. If people want to do that, fine. But in a perfect world, there should be some accountabililty for actions.

Good Article here on dealing with the junkshow: http://www.feedthehabit.com/articles/duches_avalanche.html

[Summit]

Originally posted by char
Yeah, Summit cleared it up. I don't think it's appopriate for him to stand there and tell every guy that walks by in the parking lot that he should have avy gear, but if he is going on the hill himself he is entirely within his bounds to berate some idiot for putting him and others in danger. Just a difference of telling people to play safe and acting as a pseudo-cop.

I certainly understand your comments given what you thought I was doing. If I ever just stand around lecturing people for the sake of lecturing with no intention of skiing, you have all rights and permission to see if your edges are sharp 'nuff to decapitate a person (thinking of the "first chair" segment of "there's something about mcconkey"). I'd only be one step above a yellow jacket "SLOW DOWN" bastard or those police who stand around slow zones with speed radar guns. :D :D :D

[SponsoredByDuctTape]

I'm not so sure "berating" someone is the best way to send a message, but then again, some people will only learn the hard way. I would definitely ask someone who looked like they had no clue where they are planning on skiing, but only so I know where not to ski.

[Squirrel99]

I agree with you Char. BC skiers/boarders shouldn't be out there to play police- but when someone's actions directly affect your safety- I think you are entitled, or umm, empowered or something like that.

[Summit]

I think there is a huge difference between heckling and policing. Policing would mean telling people they *can't* go without safety gear, which would be wrong. Questioning people's actions verbally and reminding them of the danger and proper safey is good as long as you are out putting in lines anyway because maybe if they hear it from enough people over time they will attempt to educate and equip themselves, thereby making things safer for everyone.


Originally posted by Squirrel99
Good Article here on dealing with the junkshow: http://www.feedthehabit.com/articles/duches_avalanche.html

good read... note the dead link to a powdermag forum thread at the bottom *sigh*

[Summit]

Wanted to add: I do get nervous sometimes when I hear rumors of the Forest Service considering regulating popular BC ski areas in a police like manner to protect us from ourselves. (yay for the defeat of the rec demo fee program BS) I do agree that words and warnings are good while rules and regulations (policing) are bad when it comes to situations like these.

That day was the longest hike I've ever done to get to Dave's Wave because my friend and I just kept stopping and looking back to watch all the idiocy I listed in 1, 2, 3, and 5. It was just scary and dumbfounding to watch. When we met those boarders digging a pit, they said they couldn't believe nobody got caught.

[Pinner]

It's one thing to be disturbed by irresponsible novices and to politley and gently educate them, and quite another to be a self-righteous know-it-all looking for a fight.

Not knowing the tone you set in that discussion, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but remember that people don't like to be told what to do. Especially if they are doing it the wrong way.

The Extreme Scene at Loveland is a joke. Stopped to offer a lift at the bottom switchback not long ago and when I pulled my "No Beep, No Jeep" move, I ended up leaving 20 snowboarders behind and driving up the pass alone.

[bad_roo]

Originally posted by Pinner
"No Beep, No Jeep"

Like it a lot.

[wookalar]

to be honest, I was thinking this just on Monday...

I'm surprised there hasn't been some type of volunteer group formed regarding Loveland Pass. By this, I mean some folks hanging in the parking lot, making some laps on the hikes, and just trying to spread the word on some better safety back there.

Nothing preachy, but just a beacon receiving, and when you get nothing back from a party setting out, maybe just ask if they're aware of back country safety.

Personally, I know I quit listening whenever someone starts telling me "what to do", but a friendlier, non-judgemental msg might get some people to thinking. Far be it for me to judge- I can remember specifically thinking the same "it won't slide" thoughts when I was younger.

Dunno, just a thought. Some of the lines I see on Loveland, and the habits of some out there make me worried.

[Idris]

Sounds a lot like the glacier JONGs we get here in Chamonix and elswhere in the alps......they are so scary to watch sliding down the arette on the Aiguille du Midi with no Harness Crampons etc.....they even manage to get themselves into trouble on the Grand Montets......The rope is red and the signpost yellow and about half the size of a freeway billboard but they still ignore the warnings...jsut ask the ulty_guy what fun we had (blody scary at the time) pulling some wisconsin kid out of a crevase last spring!....dammed snowboarder claimed he wasn't even on a Glacier!

[homerjay]

let's be honest. there's no way that the main run through the trees is gonna slide. It's got moguls and rails at the bottom. Only in very high avy danger would equipment be necessary on that run. Up higher on the ridges is another story altogether.

[Ireallyliketoski]

Originally posted by Pinner
"No Beep, No Jeep" move, \

This is a good policy. I also like "show me a munter hitch get in the subaru"

Also, as for telling people what to do I agree it's not the best way to go about it, you got to go underground with covert ninja-like incognito acts of civil disobedience.

[Ireallyliketoski]

Originally posted by homerjay
let's be honest. there's no way that the main run through the trees is gonna slide. It's got moguls and rails at the bottom. Only in very high avy danger would equipment be necessary on that run. Up higher on the ridges is another story altogether.


That mogul could go at any time!!

[bad_roo]

Originally posted by Ireallyliketoski
"show me a munter hitch get in the subaru"


Doesn't sound quite so snappy though. How about "Flash yer boobie for a ride in my Suby?"

[lemon boy]

Just FYI - You don't even need to slow down on the pass because easier than asking for peepers is looking for packs/shovels. I've yet to see a single shovel other than long handled driveway versions*

No Pack? No Park!

Then if you do see a pack you can ask for peeps.

*note, yes you do have a shovel, no I ain't giving you credit for bringing one.

[Ireallyliketoski]

Originally posted by bad_roo
Doesn't sound quite so snappy though. How about "Flash yer boobie for a ride in my Suby?"

I like it, I'm going to use it, giving you full credit and recognition of course.