What non-gay gas-saver would you get?

[Superstar Punani]

"Hello. I'm an electric car. I can't go very fast. Or very far. And if you drive me, people will think you're gay."

I drive about 30k miles per year split between my quiver of a V6 Toy FagRunner and another V6 Toy Tahomo. My annual fuel bill is greater than the per-capita GDP of Peru, Fiji, and every turd-world country ranked 121-232 according to the CIA World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html)

So I need something to be mainly used by my wife (and me for those hellacious regular long drives either SF-LA or nonpow-SF-Tahoe days). I'm keeping the trucks since their high mileage means their resale values are fucked, and besides, they've been babied with regular maintenance.

Narrowed it down to the following '06 models. Anyone else got any suggestions?
Criteria:
- I typically run my cars into the ground and put on >100k miles on them
- looking to spend around $20k
- need to be able to haul shit (boards/skis/bike)
- I would stick wheels on my own shit and drive that before I drive an American car (Ford/Dodge/GM/Chrysler/etc)

1) Honda Civic (non-hybrid) 30/40 mpg,

Pros: cheap gas saver (around $18k), reliable
Cons: chick car

2) WRX 22/29mpg
Pros: I've always wanted one of these. They are so choice. Can be used for pow days.
Cons: cost of insurance + my leadfoot could negate any gas savings.

3) Lexus IS 250 24/32 mpg
Pros: Toyota-esque longevity/reliability
Cons: a little more than I want to spend (closer to 30k)

4) Your recommendation here

[Endlessseason]

I don't give a rats if it sounds gay, if I could do it over again I'd buy a Kia Sportage or a Suzuki Grand Vitara over this Honda CR-V. (I know these aren't even on your list but I'm steering you away from sedans to very non-gat mini-SUV's).
They get the same gas mileage as the sedans you listed, are fun to drive, hold lots of stuff, are in the same price ballpark, work better as tailgate vehicles, and are usually the ticket to get you into just about any ski resort when the highway "restricted" lights are flashing. :)

[Spats]

VW Golf TDI with the 5-speed manual. 42/49 MPG.

[Superstar Punani]

I don't give a rats if it sounds gay, if I could do it over again I'd buy a Kia Sportage or a Suzuki Grand Vitara over this Honda CR-V. (I know these aren't even on your list but I'm steering you away from sedans to very non-gat mini-SUV's).
They get the same gas mileage as the sedans you listed, are fun to drive, hold lots of stuff, are in the same price ballpark, work better as tailgate vehicles, and are usually the ticket to get you into just about any ski resort when the highway "restricted" lights are flashing. :)

Actually I'm steering away from another SUV (mini or otherwise) b/c I'm keeping the 4Runner and Taco in my quiver (both 4WDs, so I'm covered for the pow days). I specifically need a car-car because...well I've never owned one made after 1964, and any sportyish sedan feels like a fun go kart after having driven only trucks and SUVs for the past 10 years :)

[Superstar Punani]

VW Golf TDI with the 5-speed manual. 42/49 MPG.

Oooh. there's another option. How are they for reliability? I know diesels run forever, but the red X's here had me a little sketched, and they don;t have data for anything after 2003:
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Reliability.aspx?year=2006&make=Volkswagen&model=Golf&trimid=-1

[hemas]

Well the Golf is really reliable, might not be as reliable as Toyota but not that far off.

I think the problem is that the Golf TDI isn't that readily avaiable at the states, and the same goes for diesel (plus who wants to drive such a go-cart).

If I'm not greatly mistaken, the versions sold at the states is the IV-series, where as in Yurp then new V-series came to the market in 2005 (and by quickly browsing through VW's USA site, the Golf pics seem to back my view). The funny thing is that with the new V-series, they didn't change anything on the TDI-engine so I'm gonna say that tells something about the reliability.

Besides the IV-series has been on the market for a long time an has had a few facelifts, so I'm gonna say that most of the reliability issues have been fixed.

Ps. check also european consumer sites, as the Golf TDI is reasonably popular here (and should give more reviews/opinions).

[bc]

1) Honda Civic (non-hybrid) 30/40 mpg,

Pros: cheap gas saver (around $18k), reliable
Cons: chick car
Not gonna even pretend that you need my advice, but a Honda Civic is really not a chick car. It's a great, reliable, small sedan. Only really comparable car was back in the day when the Civic went head-to-head with the Nissan Sentra. Definitely much more of a "chick" car. Both may be "chick" in the sense that it's hard as hell for a big guy to fit comfortably in the driver's seat with everything properly adjusted, however...

Edit: If I were personally in the market for a new car and I didn't care about 4WD, it's what I'd most likely get.

[ulty_guy]

you can get that vw tdi engine in a jetta if you need more space ($20k). they don't sell them in cali though, you might have to buy it in nevada. i've driven their tdi engines on this side of the pond and they're fantastic considering the gas mileage. if/when i go back to the states, i'd be getting one of these.

[Idris]

Passat TDi - Yes they do exist stateside - Sorry no 4motion. But then again you wanted a gas saver not a snowmobile

[shmerham]

On the one hand, if you drive a Civic conservatively, the savings in gas vs diesel, up-front costs, repairs, and insurance should negate the mpg advantage the golf tdi has. My friend has an 01 5 speed and she gets 41 mpg mixed. On the other, you can drive a civic REALLY unconservatively (that's a word, I'm sure of it) and probably not get great gas mileage.

I don't think of a civic as a chick car like a jetta or miata. The 4 door is a car I associate with deceptively hot women. You know; the librarian, the scientist, the one who dresses conservatively, but she's got that look in her eyes like "I want *you* to know that I'm a freak in the bed, but I don't want the whole world to know." I equate the 2 door version as a car for high school kids (both guys and girls).

The corolla is good too, but the Civic likely a better choice.

Greydon Clark has a TDI golf and loves it.

[mrw]

VW Golf TDI with the 5-speed manual. 42/49 MPG.

I just turned 200,000 miles on mine. I have owned BMW's , Audi's etc. This is the most trouble free car I have ever owned. I'm getting 45mpg city and 50mpg hwy. Mikne is a 1999 w/ the old (up to 1999) body style. Timing belt replacement every 60,000. Buy one.

[Syprik]

My buddy picked up the new 2007 Toyota Camry Sport Edition (SE) for ~$22k brand new in Magnetic Grey. We got 37 mpg ave on a highway road trip to Phoenix from San Diego. Gets about 24-25 in the city. 34/24 on paper. Uses low test gas. Considerably more interior volume/trunk space etc than a Honda Civic. Feels like a much roomier better made car that the Civic. I used to drive the classic Camry model 95-96 in a wagon... the most reliable SOB I've ever owned. I drove the snot out of it for 210k through harsh Lake Placid NY winters (hand-me down from father at around 75k). I've really disliked the look of the camry since that 95 model year and I have to say the 2007 is the sharpest they've ever come out with. The quality of the interior is really amazing for the money spent. They're using materials now you tend to see in euro only. I'm 6'4 and plenty of room in the back seat.

You've had good luck with your Toyota's, why change the breed?

Major thumbs up here for 2007 4-cylinder Camry SE. Headache free. Perfect long distance daily driver.

You're gonna suck gas with the WRX...plus it's high test.

This is what the car looks like, but not his.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2320000-2320999/2320859_3_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2320000-2320999/2320859_6_full.jpg

[skiing-in-jackson]

VW Golf TDI with the 5-speed manual. 42/49 MPG.

Ding!

Ding!

Ding!


We have a winner. A friend has one, with some common super easy tweaks, he gets close to sixty miles a gallon- when he drives carefully.

[El Chupacabra]

Toyota Corollas get high mileage, nice looking inside & out, without the price premium demanded by diesels or hybrids. Also runs on regular gas... does the WRX require premium gas?

Another variation: Toyota Matrix/ Pontiac Vibe (same car) -- basically a Corolla wagon with more styling. Available in AWD too.

In your shoes, I'd pick up a 3-4 year old low-mileage Civic or Corolla. High MPG, cheap initial cost, good long-term reliability.

[Yeti]

I'm in a similar position -- I drive about 35k miles per year, try to hit the 200k mark before the car dies, needed an inexpensive but reliable car, wanted something fun, and needed something I could haul surfboards/skis/boats in/on. I got a Hyundai Elantra hatchback. Cheaper than my max price, but surprisingly sporty (get the sport tune package).

[mntlion]

http://www.mustang.bc.ca/images/05660-1.JPG

1991 Toyota Hilux LN106

* 5spd AC PS
* 3L Diesel 2,800cc
* Power Mirrors
* 4WD
* RH-Drive
* 89,000Km

http://www.mustang.bc.ca/

[marshalolson]

VW Golf TDI with the 5-speed manual. 42/49 MPG.

10th'd. pretty fast, reliable, awesome milage.

or go for a jetta TDI if the golf isn't your flavor

[homerjay]

Does VW have any TDI 4motion vehicles available stateside?

[Arty50]

VW Golf TDI with the 5-speed manual. 42/49 MPG.

Jesus H Christ, don't you know that this is Greydon's exact vehicle. He even uses biodiesel in that sucker. "You can smell the righteousness!" I drove it once when I forgot my boots at home and must admit that I really liked it. All you have to do is PM your gay lover and he can tell you all about it.

[homerjay]

Jesus H Christ, don't you know that this is Greydon's exact vehicle. He even uses biodiesel in that sucker. "You can smell the righteousness!" I drove it once when I forgot my boots at home and must admit that I really liked it. All you have to do is PM your gay lover and he can tell you all about it.

Are smug emissions higher on a biodiesel or a hybrid?

[lemon boy]

Does VW have any TDI 4motion vehicles available stateside?
No :(

Supu- you can get a jetta wagon TDI (used) also :)


Married for like a month and already his masculinity is just...plain....gone :(

[cj001f]

You could walk off the lot in a midrange civic for ~$15k. You'll pay $5-6k more for the TDI. These numbers are a year old.

[EstoBum]

Does VW have any TDI 4motion vehicles available stateside?

No. VW is a bitch like that.
One other thing to consider is that california's emission laws are stricter than many other states, and I'm not sure diesels are allowed to be sold out there anymore (someone local might know) but CARB restrictions are a bitch.

Smog emssions are higher from diesels than hybrids. One of the big causes of smog formation is particulate matter, which is very low on gasoline engines, but much higher from diesels, Current technology is working on producing Particulate Traps to contain them from diesels.

[Jackie Treehorn]

Honda Civic
Toyota Corolla
Mazda 3 (not sure what kind of mileage these things get)

[Ski Monkey]

Lexus GS 450h...

0 - 60 mph in 5.2, 25/28 mpg...although it might be a bit out of your price range at 55k. ;)

http://lexus.com/assets/models/gallery/photos_popup/main_assets/exterior/GSh-031_lg.jpg

[Tri-Ungulate]

Does anybody know if you can buy a TDI 4Motion in Yurp and import it yourself to the US or are there wierd restrictions? I think there might be problems due to no crashtesting of the models in the US (though it oughta pass fine) and know that there are emissions restrictions for the TDI in Cali, NY and Mass.

If that could be figured out or overcome, though, it might make sense buying the car in Wolfsburg some winter, ski tripping with it around the Alps, then putting it on a boat before flying back to the USA.

[Boomer28]

VW's are a roll of the dice. I had a Jetta in the early 90's and it was a dream despite bad overally reliability ratings. Drove a '00 Passat for a while and it broke down more than a Yugo. I can't even remember the list but it wa endless; fuel pump, water pump, thermostat, and a list of electrical issues that would fill a notebook.

That being said, they do get great milage, but if the name of the game is to save money, your gas savings could get eaten up by repairs and then some if you get a bad one.

I'm a huge fan of the BMW 3-series. Safe, fun to drive, available in AWD, great milage and about as reliable as a car goes. My mother had a '01 325i for a few years and the only thing she ever did was put gas in it and change the oil.
Cons though are that it is TIGHT for 4 people + gear but if you only have 2 people, there is plenty of room for gear in the trunk & back seat. Also has the pass through ski hole available in the back seat so you can roll w/o ski racks which KILL your gas milage. I see so many people that keep their racks on all year round or in between trips, and though a pain to change, I noticed about a 5mpg drain with them on my Saab.

[Staggerwing]

I like VW's, I really do, but Boomer nailed it. Last one I had was a 94 VR6 Passat 5spd. An absolute dream to drive, especially on long trips, and actually, pretty reliable. That said, a couple of mechanics I've used have thoughtfully pointed out that parts were comperable in price to Mercedes/BMW. VW's tend to have the most issues in the electrical department. Can't even remember how many electrical switches and relays that I have repaired/replaced. More difficult and annoying than expensive, but I'm pretty good with circuit diagrams and a Fluke. Also had to replace the coil pack, for $300. Water pump repair required pulling an engine mount, and $400. The water heater core was closer to $800. If you get a TDI, make absolutely certain that you take care of the timing belt on time and stay up on fuel filter changes. The latter isn't a VW issue; all diesels need more frequent fuel filter changes. I think the interval is around 25,000 miles.

Last year, I was looking to replace the Passat, didn't want to crack $20K, needed to hold three rug rats, strongly prefered a manual, and didn't want a minivan, as we already have one. Oh, it had to be major fun to drive. Tried a Passat again, an 2005 1.8T 5spd, but ended up with a Mazda 3s hatch (a tick over $17k out the door). Fun. Almost as flingable as my 89 CRX. Only issue, and I knew it going in, was the stock tires are as effective in snow as douching is for birth control. Bought an extra set of wheels (-1 sizing) and dedicated snows from Tirerack.

[BSS]

Go with the WRX wagon. Maybe even just the 2.5RS. Simple, reliable, decent on gas, and well... it's a Subaru. You can't go wrong.

Vanagon or Eurovan Syncro wouldn't be too bad, but ONLY if you could find one for the right price. And I mean cheap, figuring you're going to have to balance the purchase price against already discussed high maintenance costs. Not likely that you'd find one though. They're in relatively high demand. :confused:

[JoshP]

Are smug emissions higher on a biodiesel or a hybrid?

The french fry grease reacts with the smug emmissions released by the combustion of biodeisel, effectively negating smug emmission levels.

The hybrid, on the other hand, has an actual increase in smug emmissions due to the magnetic field induced by the electric engine.

[lemon boy]

Go with the WRX wagon... decent on gas,
Step away from the crackpipe!

[Sphinx]

Step away from the crackpipe!
Seriously.

AWD makes the subarus heavy. Fairly powerful engines make their gas mileage less than stellar. Spool the turbo and the WRX will drink like a fish.

I just bought an RS and I love it, but I harbor no illusions about it's efficiency. It's got the same engine as the older Outbacks...and it'll get only marginally better fuel mileage.

Sweet cars, though.

[Alkasquawlik]

Dump them all and wait for Toyota's next year American release of their own version of Diesel. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/02/toyota_introduc.html
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6e63b/0







I'm hedging that we take over the entire middle-east in the next year and a half. There by sending gas prices to 1960 prices, so I went the opposite way of a typical freaking out americant and bought one of these yesterday. So stoked!
http://www.autofan.com/images/newcars/2002_Toyota_Tundra_01.jpg
2002, Limited edition, 4wd, Toyota "my-name-is-more-power-than-you" Tundra

[Corky]

So hold on....let me get this straight....you're going to buy another vehicle (plus pay registration, taxes and insurance for 3 cars now)....

....to save money on gas!!

Am I missing something here?!?

[danhikeski]

ya, it doesn't pay to get a newer car just for gas mileage. i looked into it about a year ago, i have a 2000 cherokee (19 mpg) and with what i owe/what it's worth plus reg. and taxes it's not worth it. maine's laws are pretty strict and we can get diesel v-dubs here (same laws as cali)

[DJSapp]

So hold on....let me get this straight....you're going to buy another vehicle (plus pay registration, taxes and insurance for 3 cars now)....

....to save money on gas!!

Am I missing something here?!?

Let's see, gas in CA is currently $3.65/gal

30,000 mi/12mpg * 3.65/gal = $9125 fuel bill

30,000 mi/30mpg * 3.65/gal = $3650 fuel bill

Seems like a good idea to me. A buddy of mine just bought a Toyota Matrix XRS. We got 33 mpg on the drive to Vegas, doing 85 with the A/C pumping. Good cruiser car.

[cj001f]

30,000 mi/12mpg * 3.65/gal = $9125 fuel bill

30,000 mi/30mpg * 3.65/gal = $3650 fuel bill

Seems like a good idea to me.

He's not selling any of the other vehicles, so he'll have to pay less than $450/month in toto to break even on the car.

[Obstruction]

If you're doing it to be practical you can't beat the civic or corolla. The 5 speed will save gas but you'll prolly pay that back in clutch money driving freeways and cities in CA.

Ditto on the VW repair/parts price. Wife has a 2002 asshat wagon and that thing costs $$$ when it needs attention.

[DJSapp]

He's not selling any of the other vehicles, so he'll have to pay less than $450/month in toto to break even on the car.

Should be possible for a car under 20k with a good driver's record and good credit.

[mojorisin]

FKNA Cody, FKNA!





(Although I thought rockstars only rode in hummers and limousines?)

[irul&ublo]

Punani....there is no non-gay gas saver. Face it; you are married man. The testosterone production in your body dropped precipitously the minute you said "I do". Admit your situation, suck it up, and buy a mini van. Then do the dishes.

[smmokan]

Honda Civic
Toyota Corolla
Mazda 3 (not sure what kind of mileage these things get)

I just bought a Mazda3 5-door, and I like it quite a bit so far. Lots of room in the back for the dogs or whatever, and its got a decent amount of pickup for a small car. My first full tank of gas I got 27 mpg, all city... and it says 32+ for highway, so I'm expecting that at least. Not a bad deal at $17-18k out the door.

[Staggerwing]

As I mentioned, I bought a Mazda 3s, and like it. But, Mazda makes an oddball mini-minivan, the Mazda5. Basically, it is a 3 with a little bigger body, and an extremely flexible, outdoor geek friendly, gear swallowing interior. It is also the only minivan that I know of, in the US, that can be purchased with a manual transmission.

[Sinecure]

Have you looked at the new Honda Fit? http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Fit

Its a pretty cool little car, it holds a ton of shit, plus its a honda so it will go for ever. I sold my last Acura with 225K on it, my current MDX has 127K, and every other honda my family has had went for freakin ever. I saw a Fit the other day and it looked pretty good. Plus it gets mileage in the mid-high 30's.

With snow tires it would kick butt in snow, unfortunately Caltrans doesn't consider snow tires to be = chains.

[Idris]

Does anybody know if you can buy a TDI 4Motion in Yurp and import it yourself to the US or are there wierd restrictions? I think there might be problems due to no crashtesting of the models in the US (though it oughta pass fine) and know that there are emissions restrictions for the TDI in Cali, NY and Mass.

If that could be figured out or overcome, though, it might make sense buying the car in Wolfsburg some winter, ski tripping with it around the Alps, then putting it on a boat before flying back to the USA.


Can't do this due to some nasty rules put in place under Bush. Unless the car is specifically made for the North American market it must be 25 years old for personal import!. I have tried to help reinds import Landrover Defenders from the UK. We only have to wait a few more years for the first 90's and 110's to be old enough to qualify. One of the good things about a 25 year old import. It can have a non original motor in it. In Canada the rule is 15 years.

[seatosky]

1) Honda Civic (non-hybrid) 30/40 mpg,


I went from an aging Volvo 760 to an '02 civic this year. For the vancouver-whistler trip (usually pretty mellow even on pow days) it's been the shit. Super reliable and super cheap on gas. Small engine tho so manual is really the only option, the auto is incredibly gutless.

[jonnyquest]

VW Golf TDI with the 5-speed manual. 42/49 MPG.


I agree with Spats- the golf tdi. And with the superior torque of the diesel added to a set of studded or snow tires, who needs all wheel drive?

[commonlaw]

Go with the WRX wagon. Maybe even just the 2.5RS. Simple, reliable, decent on gas, and well... it's a Subaru. You can't go wrong.

Vanagon or Eurovan Syncro wouldn't be too bad, but ONLY if you could find one for the right price. And I mean cheap, figuring you're going to have to balance the purchase price against already discussed high maintenance costs. Not likely that you'd find one though. They're in relatively high demand. :confused:


I think the middle of the road 2.5 subby wagon is the no brainer pick. I also just test drove a new GTI that was reasonably priced and had way more room than I imagined. With approporiate racks, this would be a nice set up. I have heard that the reliability may be a small problem.

You know supu, you can get a a pretty sweet audi made just before the body change or right around 2001 with low miles, AWD, decent mileage if you stay away from the accellarator once in awhile for around 21-24K. Make sure that you have the records and the "kid" who had it before you didnt put a chip or some shit in it--sure sign someone drove the fuck out of it.

[Evmo]

Seriously.

AWD makes the subarus heavy. Fairly powerful engines make their gas mileage less than stellar. Spool the turbo and the WRX will drink like a fish.

I just bought an RS and I love it, but I harbor no illusions about it's efficiency. It's got the same engine as the older Outbacks...and it'll get only marginally better fuel mileage.

Sweet cars, though.

I can attest that WRX's arent all that sweet at sipping fuel (I have a 9-2x aero, which is essentially the same car). Plus, they require 91+, so you get kicked in the nuts there.

My biggest complaint about hte car is how bad the mileage is, quite honestly... But i am a lead foot..

[stuckathuntermtn]

imprezza 2.5rs wagon

[LeeLau]

I'm very curious about that Fit. It looks great and the stats look good for space.

[Spats]

I agree with Spats- the golf tdi. And with the superior torque of the diesel added to a set of studded or snow tires, who needs all wheel drive?

The crap-ass Caltrans chain control checkpoint. 7000-pound H2 with dub-dubs that can't stop in less than a city block, or stop at all on icy downhills? Go on through! Lifted pickup with studded snows and locking rear diff? CHAINS ON, BUDDY!

Caltrans is a major reason that I skied in Nevada this year. (The plow drivers rule, but the policies suck.) NVDOT keeps the roads plowed, doesn't close the road every time someone spins out, and allows traction to be your responsibility.

Jetta or Passat TDI are also options if you want a bigger car.

As far as VW reliability: not so good, especially electricals. But they have a solid warranty, so I'd recommend buying new and selling after the warranty expires. Or leasing if the math works out better.

[splat]

I thought this one was kinda nice....

[BeanDip4All]

I've always thought civics were gay chick cars, however I just saw the revamped '06 models in the city, and the new body is decidedly less gay/chick car than the old ones... So I would lean towards that.

BTW, is your Taco lifted???? :D

[mr_gyptian]

Are smug emissions higher on a biodiesel or a hybrid?

hybrid, and it's smug with a dash of gay.

This isn't going to surprise anyone, but the Ford Focus ST(Roo will back me on this) would be my second choice closely behind the TDi. It hauls ass and you can pick up an 05 pre-owned for around $13k-15k. lotta bang for the buck. On that same platform the new AWD Mazda coming out is coming out and is supposed to be turboed.

[skier666]

.....If you're in the driver's seat, any vehicle you purchase will most definitely be gay, who are you kidding....not me. So just get your Geo Metro and be done with it. If you need to get to Tahoe, I'll give you a ride and we can split my $80 tank. :smile:

[4matic]

Mini Cooper?