The Official Salomon AK Swallowtail Review

[Alkasquawlik]

Location- Squaw
Conditions- 8 inches of sierra cement with 10 inches of wind buff goodness at higher elevations
Me- 6' 3" 195 lbs
Review: Simple as this, they haul ass, float like boats, and flat out rip. But most people would like more details, so here it goes. First off these skis are almost unbelievably light while at the same time being nice and stiff. Not Explosive stiff, but purty stiff. Only at the very beginning of the swallow tail cut does the tail taper in stiffness. Upon first putting them on I notice how damn wide they are and how far forward they seem to be mounted. The whole forward mounted thing had be confused and a bit worried at first, but after realizing that you don't have to sit back to keep the tip afloat (because of the swallowtail) the center mounting allowed for snappy turns when you needed them and amazing laying over ability in pow. But despite the fact I said they are "snappy" they really really want to go fast. Ripping through the trees of red dog ridge the only thing I wanted was for the run to keep going for another 3000 feet. I think this is the first ski that actually deserves the AK term. They are damn fun toys.
Downsides: They cost a quite a few benjamins. Still haven't completely figured out all the benefits of a swallow tail.

Overall. Rippin pow skis that desperately want a huge 60 degree 3000 foot face.

Other people with these please chime in. I'd like to here other reviews.

[slim]

I won't have mine mounted until I head to Jackson for the month of January. I'll post a review of them there.

Alkasquawlik-

Would you recommend mounting them back 1cm? Or is the center mount not a problem at all.

[trainnvain]

I'll give ya my review when I win the lottery.

(They sound mighty fun though);)

[DINMS]

I hate to be a jackhole, but do you count? As a spancered rider your review is biased.

[Mustonen]

he counts a lot more than somebody who hasn't skied them. just cuz he's sponsored by them doesn't mean his review is garbage, you just have to keep it in mind -- especially when comparing it to other reviews of the same ski.

stop bein a jackhole, dinms. ;)

[Alkasquawlik]

Originally posted by slim

Alkasquawlik-

Would you recommend mounting them back 1cm? Or is the center mount not a problem at all.

I'd say stick with the mounting line. The swallowtail is what allows for a forward mounting point and it's a different experience of pow skiing with your foot almost center. If you don't like them that way, when you come up to Tahoe I'll remount them for you for free.

And yes I'm spancered by Salomon and am slightly bias. For instance I'd never ever say the skis absolutely sucked and you shouldn't buy them. But I am trying to remain truthful. If someone is going to spend big bills on these skis the last thing I want to do is have them actually suck and the buyer be unbelievably bitter at me and Salomon. It's also why I asked for other Swallowtail owners to please chime in with their independent reviews. And truthfully, these skis are damn damn fun and seriously rip.

[Idris]

Seen qite a few of these around, they cost €600-€700 here...also see the real pro model around, 110 waist and only in a 205!...the other interesting one is Quecha (Decathalon) have their own freeride skis....€450 with sally 914 for Launcher dimensions in a 186 and €550 with sally 916 for Exploder dimensions in a 193, both wood core sandwich construction and can be seen on the hill...a pair of the larger ones was used by the winer of last years Verbier ride

[slim]

Skied them all day today.

Location- Jackson Hole
Conditions- 8 inches of light new snow (2 degree weather) with tons of wind buff all over the place. Jackson has been storming like crazy so it's deep in spots.

Me- 6' 5" 160 lbs

Review:
These skis are fun. Plain and simple. They're really odd in that they ski and feel like a really big ski but you can snap turns on them like you can on a Pocket Rocket. Not quite as stiff as I was expecting but not noodles in anyway what so ever. Huge shovel tip and the tails definately sink due to the swallow tail. The skis provide the most stable landing platform I've ever ridden on. They're big but definately light weight and are not an exhausting ride. I'm still getting used to how center mounted the skis are. In crud and heavier snow (where the tails don't sink) I wish I was a little bit further back, but in untracked light snow (sinking tails) or in the trees I really like the center mounting. It'll take me a few more days to decide whether or not I want to remount them back 1cm. The skis are really unique... they almost contradict themselves in that they ski small and quick but are also a really big, stable, monster GS turner. I can't even begin to imagine what the 205cm 105-waisted true pro ski rides like.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by slim
Me- 6' 5" 160 lbs


OK, here's a guy who deserves his name.
Eat something! A lot of things!

[Alkasquawlik]

Good review Slim-

After continued experience in the monster dumping of Tahoe I've concurred that I love these skis. They really do want to go fast and straight, but not unlike spatulas they butter turns easily and they feel like you can get them on top of the snow at any moment to snap them around with ease. All and all they I compare them to driving an F-1 car, they're fast as hell but can snap around a tight turn with the (figurative) flick of a wrist. The landing capability is awesome as well. After stomping V-Rock ("V-Rock"- a line in Squaw that consists of a 20 foot straightline, to ollie over rocks, to a blind 30 foot drop, to a mandatory stomp in a 5 foot wide chute)(and that's not overexagerating)(two buddies who attempted it this week both didn't stomp and both subsequently smashed into the bordering rocks of the narrow chute) directly in McGovern's bomb hole my confidence in these skis rocketed higher than Tanner Hall at a reggae fest. And finally even though I'm spancered by Salomon these skis, objectively, are damn damn fun skis.

Alka

[BakerBoy]

Good job, you only dropped 2 names! Xover should take note! ;)

[Dr. Crash]

And he also has experience driving an F1 car. Nice.

drC

[Alkasquawlik]

I can do more,
So there I was McGoverning down the mountain but I McConkeyed the hell out of a Morrison and landed on my Harrisons. Just then I Skogened off a Tuffelmire but hit my McMurray into a Holmes. As I came to the Burke I Steele Spenced over a Moles and stopped on a Krietler. Then I saw Gaffney, and then two Gaffneys, but they Moseleyed me into a Hall. So I said, "Pep!!" and Saged on out of that Thovex.

Now do you think I'm cool?

[BakerBoy]

Originally posted by Alkasquawlik
I can do more,
So there I was McGoverning down the mountain but I McConkeyed the hell out of a Morrison and landed on my Harrisons. Just then I Skogened off a Tuffelmire but hit my McMurray into a Holmes. As I came to the Burke I Steele Spenced over a Moles and stopped on a Krietler. Then I saw Gaffney, and then two Gaffneys, but they Moseleyed me into a Hall. So I said, "Pep!!" and Saged on out of that Thovex.

Now do you think I'm cool?

I dunno, but you win.

[DINMS]

,,,yeah whatevert.

[El Chupacabra]

Bumping for 2.12.06 relevance

[llyon]

Bumping for 2.12.06 relevance
Heheheh shhhhh ;)

[Core Shot]

Upon first putting them on I notice how damn wide they are and how far forward they seem to be mounted.

Heh. 95mm is "damn wide" :fm:

How things have changed.


Is this ski still universally loved?

If it is mounted back 1cm, is it a versatile do anything ski??
Seems a bit narrow to use today as a pow only quiver ski.

[3eyedsmiley]

Just a quip, they're on S&C for $312 US, so if you were considering them, and you rush, you won't have to pay a fortune. At least if you don't count shipping...

[bossass]

Yes, Watson.

[3eyedsmiley]

Yes, Watson.
*blushes* Why thank you Sherlock.

[focus]

Heh. 95mm is "damn wide" :fm:

How things have changed.


Is this ski still universally loved?

If it is mounted back 1cm, is it a versatile do anything ski??
Seems a bit narrow to use today as a pow only quiver ski.

Things haven't changed that much. They were never really that ridiculous, even in their first year -- they just feel wide. Tips are as wide as gotamas.

They feel way wider than my 93mm waisted t@nkers, and riding up the t-bar next to people w/ gotamas, etc., they LOOK a helluva lot bigger. I routinely get "those must be like 100 somethin, eh?"

But yeah, I now have mine mounted 2 cm back and they do better in powder. If you're looking for versatility (not just pow/crud) leave 'em at original or maybe 1 cm back? if you leave them at the original mark be prepared to take some time to get used to them every time you click in. Before I remounted them they were really fun on groomers, soft bumpy stuff, and crud, but dove in deeper pow,

Now they're much more stable in heavier/deeper crud and pow, but sort of a beast on groomers and bumps.

On both mounts you have to really lay them over for maximum fun...

They make a good transition ski for 'tweener days.

[Core Shot]

Thanks, Focus.
You saved me $325.

Maybe part of the problem is that the edge stops well short of the end of the tail. Its like a Swallowtail with Wingers. By moving the mount back, you get more centered on the full length, but too far back on the actual edge length.

Thx.

[Alkasquawlik]

2+ years later and still skiing on them.

[El Chupacabra]

2+ years later and still skiing on them.

Still at center mount (Salomon's recommended mount), or 1cm or 2cm back?

[marshalolson]

Still at center mount (Salomon's recommended mount), or 1cm or 2cm back?

this years should be -2cm; last years (SAC) should be -1cm

[Alkasquawlik]

Still at center mount (Salomon's recommended mount), or 1cm or 2cm back?

about 3cm forward of the new line. it's actually about on the line of 2 years ago model.

they pushed back (about 2-3) cm the recommended mount line on last years model.

[focus]

what's the measurement from the tail?

[Alkasquawlik]

Don't know off the top of my head. But I'll try to an approximate measure soon.

[El Chupacabra]

about 3cm forward of the new line. it's actually about on the line of 2 years ago model.

they pushed back (about 2-3) cm the recommended mount line on last years model.

Any tip dive with that mounting position?

I'm not looking for versatility with this ski -- where would you mount the ski as a pure powder ski?

[Alkasquawlik]

Any tip dive with that mounting position?

I'm not looking for versatility with this ski -- where would you mount the ski as a pure powder ski?

If you aren't looking for versatility then I would go with the recommended mount position. I like the more forward mount for stomping, spinning and hard gnarly crud. But, yes, is some cases it makes the tip dive a bit more. Not as much as a normal pow ski mounted that far forward, because of the swallowtail, but it does push the tip down a tiny bit.

[MnO]

I still use them and will do so for a while. Currently on my third pair and I like them very much for the snappiness and easy turning. I have mine mounted at 84,5cm from tail at the moment. I´ve tried 82-87 cm and like the 84,5cm setting best.

[El Chupacabra]

Thanks all -- I'll do some measurements when my skis show up (hopefully today) and see where the Salomon recommended line is on my pair.

[El Chupacabra]

My SAC Swallowtails arrived. They have the 2 marks for a mounting point, one "punch" hole, and one short line, like MnO described here:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15948

The short line is rearward of the punched hole. The short line is at the 84.5cm mark from the tail. Looking at the ski, I'm going to use the short line for the mounting point on these skis.

Another question before I drill: do these skis have a metal topsheet? According to backcountryoutlet.com, it's a "Monocoque titanium spaceframe" and "Core Material: Race room wood core --
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/SAL0829/Salomon-AK-Rocket-Lab-Alpine-Ski.html

Asking basically to determine whether to use a 3.5 or 4.1 bit. There are no markings on the ski that would indicate metal topsheet, or bit size to use.

[marshalolson]

i \'ve drilled last years and this year w/ 4.1 no tap. no issues.

SAC's were foam core w/ titanal.

this years are wood core and titanal.

i generally only tap on stainless topsheets and generally only use 3.5 bits on non-metal topsheet skis (k2, iggy, bro, etc...)

[El Chupacabra]

Thanks marshal --

You sure about the SAC swallowtails being foam core? Website said wood core for this model (orange graphic with "SCREAM" in huge letters on tip).

BTW - what skis have you found that use a stainless topsheet?

[kneedropper]

I have the same graphic that was on Steep and Cheap the there is a wood core with metal.... if that helps. I've got them mounted tele and started with boot center between the marks. I now have them 1 or 2 cm behind the rear mark boot center tele. They feel a bit more squirly mounted back (I expected the opposite), but for tele the rear ski was too far forward droping the knee. If they were a alpine only mount I would mount 1cm forward of the new rear black mark.

I have bobers on them, so I've been able to move them all around without drilling... and I'm lazy on hardpack and tend to "alpine" unless it is good... for what it's worth.

[yesIsaidyes]

BTW - what skis have you found that use a stainless topsheet?
Ski the steel, steal the thunder!

[El Chupacabra]

Ski the steel, steal the thunder!

Oh yeah, duh.... forgot about the Volants. I was thinking of something with a stainless topsheet underneath the top graphic/ fiberglas/ whatever.

[Bandit Man]

My arrived yesterday and have been mounted to the "small line" mark. Once we get some more freshies in WA, I'll share my results. Would love to hear from others once they get to make some turns in pow-pow what the verdict is.

[marshalolson]

Oh yeah, duh.... forgot about the Volants. I was thinking of something with a stainless topsheet underneath the top graphic/ fiberglas/ whatever.

powder plus, axiom, monster 103, supermojo, nordica FF off the top of my head...

[uglymoney]

I've received mine as well, and have no reason to mount them for 2-3 weeks and still shoping bindings for mine, so I'm hoping to read a couple more reviews with mounting point info included from some just mounted AK's to expand the data points some more.

Great info so far. I measured about 14 cm from the back of the swallowtail to the start of the metal edge on these, so the effective edge seems like its 181 or so. If they really ski that short, I'm probably going to go 0 or +1, but maybe as high as + 2 depending. I like to be able to swivel my sticks and don't really have a problem dealing with sinking tips, mounting AT, but with my current quiver being on the skinny side, I'll likely be using these more than I should for a while.

[El Chupacabra]

I put bindings on my SAC swallowtails last night, using Salomon 997s centered on the rearward of the 2 marks (the line, not the dot). Used a 4.1mm bit per marshal, and yes, there is a metal sheet under the topsheet, and also a wood core. Stuffed a little wood glue in there when mounting.

The marked line is pretty far to the rear, but the flex on these skis is medium-stiff, so hopefully they won't feel like they're wheelie-ing in pow. Looks like the sidecut has a very long taper to it, with a lot of width up front, narrowing down only at the binding marked line waaaay towards the rear of the ski. Interesting design. I hope it works.

Too bad it's not going to snow in the Sierras this weekend, or else I'd try them out. Instead, I think I'll wax the car, maybe wear shorts & tevas around, wash the dog... that sort of thing.

[vtdownhiller]

I ski mine on the center mount, but I need to carve them as well.....2nd season and still loving them...I take em out on coaching days on hardpack just for fun....still a versatile all around stick
Although I'll be on the spatulas in valdez

[marshalolson]

I...also a wood core...
damn you lucked out. the retail version is "supposed" to have foam from that year. your sick score just got sicker!

[El Chupacabra]

Unfortunately, it snowed in the Sierras, so I couldn't wax the car, wash the dog, etc., etc.

Damn. Nothing else to do but go ski the 10" of blower that landed at Mt Rose.

As I noted above, I mounted my SAC swallowtails on the Salomon-marked rearward line. They are really easy to ski, forgiving, but stiff enough to hold a line and not chatter on the cut-up bumps (or crust underneath) as the day went on. They turn super fast, almost Spatula-like -- they feel a lot shorter than 195cm, more like a 180-185cm ski.

They're worse in bumps & hardpack than stiffer skis like Bros or Explosivs -- feels like they're not particularly torsionally rigid in those conditions. They do not hold a line nearly as well as Explosivs or Bros on really hard conditions (chalk); this could either be torsional softness, or the factory tune (not as sharp as my Explosivs or Bros).

After 1 day, I still like the Spatulas better in tight conditions (trees, chutes), but the AK swallowtails seem to do everything else better -- groomer runout to the lift, straightline stability, traversing, can hit bumps without feeling like your knees just slammed into concrete (drawback on the Spats). And they're a lot lighter than Spats.

I like the mounting point on the Salomon rearward line too. Not tip divey at all, and there's plenty of tail left for stability (no wheelie feeling like with a soft tail ski).

[roorfan]

damn. i want some!

[El Chupacabra]

Day 2 update:

Slammed into a big rock at Kirkwood, thought I mostly hit edges... nope. 3" long core shot.

I think the bases are kinda soft... I remember some Salomons I had awhile back as having bases that gouged pretty easily too. I've hit Spatulas on sharper rocks which only left shallow gouges.

Oh well...

[mc_roon]

I bought AK rocket labs from S&C and skiied them in Tahoe this past weekend. I love these skis. They are fantastic. I will admit that they were a little daunting at first, but they really perform like a much shorter ski. Mine are mounted 1cm back, and that seems to work great for me.

[kneedropper]

The bases in the skis next year (labs) are changing from the "race" base to a harder compound. The current lab bases can be "marked" with a stick, let alone a rock. But when you start hitting the gates on the course you'll appriciate the extra speed:rolleyes:

[focus]

Never had a problem with coreshots on my first gen rocket swallowtails.

Had them out at bohemia a couple days ago, 4-6" of light fresh was just enough to hide the rocks. hit lots of 'em and dinged up the edges some....nothing more than a couple light scratches on the base. Way better than my XXX's...though that isn't saying too much.

Also - still haven't measured exactly where the mount is from the tail, but 2 cm back of the original mount line is proving to be pretty ideal. Sweetspot's now under the ball of my foot instead of under my arch/heel.... Have to drive and steer them a bit more, but that just keeps me honest. Still quite a bit of work in the tight brush/trees and bumps, though very doable - my legs are still feeling it.

[uglymoney]

I finally mounted my AK's today after much dilemna. Running out of time and with a friend declaring his inclusion on next weeks run west, which is insta backcountry partner, I needed to get an AT setup done this week. And so I mounted some Freerides.

I went a couple of millimeters ahead of the rear mark, mostly because I didn't want to err and end up behind it. I was going to go ahead a bit, but changed my mind after reading all the reviews above.

After what seemed like hours of measuring, and remeasuring, and then measuring, changing template locations, I finally drilled with a 4.09 millimeter bit that I bought at the hardware store. I used the mounting template printed to scale that I found here:

http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/fritschi-freeride-mount/fritschi-diamir-freeride.html

but I pretty much went my own way and ignored the step by step. Sealed screws with epoxy as is my custom. I'm very pleased with the end result.

My only worry now is how the skis will handle skins with the swallowtails. Anyone? I think I will cut them to end at the 181 metal edge end, and clip (ascensions) them in the swallow cut. Hopefully this works, if not I am sol till I add another pair of fatties.

Ski review next week sometime.

Here is a pic:

http://home.mchsi.com/~uglymoney3/fritschiakrockets.jpg

Edit for more pic info. The Dynastar Tele's (210 cm) on the outside edges of the pic were my first pair of tele boards. I bought them from a Norwegian exchange student (Jan N.) who was a rockstar on skis and came to Iowa for unknown reasons. He needed cash at the end of his year here in 1988 and so they became mine. I gave him $150 for the boards, some Asolo boots, and the old cheap three pin rotefella bindings. They were murder on anything but perfect snow, but I had fun with them for a few years. We still keep in touch with the guy, and hopefully I will make some turns with him again someday soon.

[leroy jenkins]

I've skied both this years and the previous verison, each on thier suggested mounting point. I have to say I like this years (further back) mounting point much better. I didn't notice any difference in thier ability to snap around quick turns, the only difference I noticed was that it is much harder to make the tips dive.

EDIT: I skied my this years ones (mounted on this years line) again yesterday, and I've changed my mind, I like the old mounting point better. It was very strange, but doing high speed airs on these, the tips kept wanting to fly up in the air, giving me some great nordic jumper steeze, which was pretty disconcerting. Also, at high speeds in wierd snow they actually feel a bit less stable mounted farther back.

So basically, Alka was right on when he said ealier that for pure pow mount on this years line, for everyday skiing (which is what these things are really meant for) mount on the old line or the dot.

[Bandit Man]

Conditions: 20" light blower pow / tracked out pow
Set-Up: 195 AK Rocket LAB's w/S912 Ti's mounted on the line (behind the dot)
Skier: 5'8" & 175 lbs.

So, I finally got out on my SAC LAB's in some real fluff and I gotta say "DAMN...I LOVE THESE SKIS!" They really ski shorter groomers and longer in the deep stuff. With the 912 Ti's, they ski so incredibly light, yet blast through just about anything. Granted, my LP's ski burlier, but demand a heck of a lot more fom me. Anyhow, no tip dive, super stable, and just a ton of fun. Perhaps the best pow-pow ski I have tried (haven't been on Spat's or Pontoon's). I'd imagine that someone over 200 lbs. could easily over ski these, but they felt just right at my weight. I love the way the tails sink ever so slightly and those nice 130-mm tips stay on top. I didn't really feel that I had to "ski from the heels" like on lots of other fatties. Super easy to turn, but stable in longer turns and straightlines, too. Easy in bumps for 195's and so-so on groomers.

I know that this is a "generic" review, so I'll just end by saying that these were worth all of the ~$300 I paid and will be my pow ski of choice when it's light and deep. I hope my Got's don't get powder envy. :)

[uglymoney]

As posted above I mounted mine AT at the rear mark and took them to JH for a week of footish pow.

6'2" 192 lbs

I am glad that I mounted them at the rear line. They felt centered and balanced in all conditions. They were great in semi-tight trees, floated through some cruddy pow that I found at moonlight effortlessly, skimmed right over some of the south facing crud we found at Jackson when we were traversing on a couple of lift served runs. Notable, because both of my friends who were better skiers found the conditions horrific, and I found conditions to be only undesireable, but tolerable.

I wouldn't mount them any farther forward. At my height, when I loaded the shovels, the skis skied pretty short, so I found myself skiing nuetrally and letting them happily rip longish turns on the flats, or slightly forward in the trees/steeps to effect quick turns.

On the groomers they were fun as long as I didn't push them while being lazy. A couple of times I did have the tails blow completely out on me after the skis started a shimmy and shake while I was trying to carve them. This is definetely there shortfall, but I am used to my Bandits which pretty much have no limitations on groomers, and don't need my full attention. I imagine other fat skis do better than the AK's.

Overall, for the money, and for the variable spring conditions in which I just used these in which I think they excel, I am a satisfied customer.

http://home.mchsi.com/~uglymoney4/P10000701.jpg

[mc_roon]

after skiing the past two weeks at Squaw...I am soo happy i spent 300 on these skis for S&C. A fantastic ski. no tip dive, but still sinks a lot for face-shots. Overall, fantastic..

ps. perfect skis for stomping airs, so much material underfoot makes it really easy.

[powhead]

I read all the above statements, so when I got my skiis I put a Salomon demo binding on them so I could try different mounting points. In the first 3 days I skied every condition except ice. The line (84.5 cm from tail) was perfect. I am 6'4" 240# and ski fast. I might try other mounting points in the future since this is my new favorite ski, but I am not disappointed at 84.5.

[Cirquerider]

They're back on SAC. I hesitated but pulled the trigger when I saw shipping was only $4.49 US Priority Mail. Seems like most maggots have liked this ski, and its going to be hard to beat this price.

[flyboymtman]

Have to admit I'm not ski tech savvy, and first time able to afford good skis. Ready to pull the trigger, just don't know if I've got the right duck in my sights. Does anyone know if there are minimum specs. for the bindings on these? I already have SAC Salomon Ti Axe bindings and was hoping they are compatible?

[El Chupacabra]

Have to admit I'm not ski tech savvy, and first time able to afford good skis. Ready to pull the trigger, just don't know if I've got the right duck in my sights. Does anyone know if there are minimum specs. for the bindings on these? I already have SAC Salomon Ti Axe bindings and was hoping they are compatible?

Since you bought SAC bindings you're all set. If you don't have SAC bindings you can't use SAC skis. It's in the rules.

:rolleyes:

[Cirquerider]

So Chup, where do these fit in for you? You have Bros, and just got the Nordicas and I think Spats. Seems like a lot of powder and crud redundancy. Would you do it again (sans core shot)?

Also, what year is this? Looks to be the more recent 05-06. Sounds like you got the Orange graphic 04-05 with Scream:

[iriponsnow]

05-06, kinda surprised not to see them go fast (er, at all)

[Jim S]

05-06, kinda surprised not to see them go fast (er, at all)

+ 1
...

[SnowToad]

They're back on SAC. I hesitated but pulled the trigger when I saw shipping was only $4.49 US Priority Mail. Seems like most maggots have liked this ski, and its going to be hard to beat this price.

Agreed, the shipping price was just enough of a push to bring out the card. Between the unbeatable price and great maggot reviews, I'll be really surprised if I regret this purchase.

[roorfan]

after seeing the nice $330 pricetag at steap+cheap, i am SERIOUSLY contemplating the purchase. i will need some bindings for them obviously, but i think it will be worth it.

i know countless reviews have been made, but i am lazy and was wondering if they ski alright on normal condition days inbounds. yes or no? i dont need a paragraph. i was just wondering if they could be skied often out here in co... replace my mantras maybe who knows . 184cm mantras=tooshort all i know.


thanks

[FigureEleven]

Yes... it is only 95mm under foot and it really only skis like a 185cm ski or so since the swallow is slightly raised and has no running edge.

[Bandit Man]

+ 1
...

Jim - You bought another pair of skis?? I think you and I are ending up with very similar quivers...Explosiv's, LP's, SV's (sold mine), and now AK Swallowtails. I know you have some Made'ns in the mix too. So what does that make...like six pairs of skis with 95+ waists? :D

[El Chupacabra]

So Chup, where do these fit in for you? You have Bros, and just got the Nordicas and I think Spats. Seems like a lot of powder and crud redundancy. Would you do it again (sans core shot)?

Also, what year is this? Looks to be the more recent 05-06. Sounds like you got the Orange graphic 04-05 with Scream:

I sold the stiff 188 Bros; I like Explosivs more. The stiff Bros are very good for a 1-ski quiver. I don't have a 1-ski quiver...

The only Nordicas I have are the old red Beasts, with Fritschis on them for touring. I figured they were light enough for touring, skinny enough for corn, fat enough for pow... so far so good.

I have a lot of redundancy between ANTs, m103s, and Explosivs. The AK Rocket swallowtails are more fun in wide open powder than the Spatulas, but I'm keeping both; the Spatulas are better in heavy crud and crust, and reign supreme in pow skiing in trees. Though the AK Rockets turn very quickly too, nearly as smearable as the Spatulas.

My new addition, which hasn't arrived yet, is Sanouks. I'm thinking of mounting them with alpine bindings, and if I like them, remounting the AK swallowtails with another set of Fritschis for BC pow. (I think the skins for the Nordica Beasts will work on the AK Rockets acceptably.)

I would absolutely buy the AK Rockets again. And yes, I have the year-before-today's-SAC model, the bright orange ones with the obnoxious "SCREAM" on the tips.

For anyone contemplating the AK Rockets, they feel a lot wider and float a lot more than you would think from a 95mm waist. There's a lot of that 130mm tip on the front end -- it doesn't start tapering off until pretty far down the ski.

[Jim S]

Jim - You bought another pair of skis?? I think you and I are ending up with very similar quivers...Explosiv's, LP's, SV's (sold mine), and now AK Swallowtails. I know you have some Made'ns in the mix too. So what does that make...like six pairs of skis with 95+ waists? :D

I'm getting my first sub 95mm ski this winter since two years ago:

Nordica Jet Fuel 84mm 186cm..... Rest of the lineup is:
Seth Vicious 189
Seth Vicious 179
Maden AK 189
Explosiv 180 w/ Freerides
Legend Pro 186

Incoming
AK Rocket 195
Pontoon 189
Seth 189 ....maybe...it's a gift. I'd mount +1 instead of +3 SV

Contemplating one of these
Legend Pro 194, Stockli DP 183/194, Atomic Pimp, Gotama 190, Bro Stiff 188

Why?
No good reason.

[Bandit Man]

I'm getting my first sub 95mm ski this winter since two years ago:

Nordica Jet Fuel 84mm 186cm..... Rest of the lineup is:
Seth Vicious 189
Seth Vicious 179
Maden AK 189
Explosiv 180
Legend Pro 186

Incoming
AK Rocket 195
Pontoon 189
Seth 189 ....maybe...it's a gift. I'd mount +1 instead of +3 SV

Contemplating one of these
Legend Pro 194, Stockli DP 183/194, Atomic Pimp, Gotama 190, Bro Stiff 188

Why?
No good reason.

Nice. I'm keeping this list to show my wife the next time I need to justify a purchase. I only have five pairs of fatties, so it looks like I still have a ways to go to catch either you are El Chup.

And to think...when we first met you, you only had a pair of Dynastar Skicross 10's (or something like that). :D

[Jim S]

And to think...when we first met you, you only had a pair of Dynastar Skicross 10's (or something like that). :D

Yep, that was it and nothing more. How things have changed. And tell your gal that YOU were one of the catalysts for the change to a multi-gordito quiver.

[Superstar Punani]

Flipping $300 skis for $500....so HOT right now!

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/211240665.html

[bad_roo]

That guy Keith from Berkeley didn't get where he is today by selling $300 skis for $300.

[Cirquerider]

I thought I'd post up this picture of mounting lines for current reference. After looking at it I'm going to mount boot center at the rear line. It seems to give a good balance to the ski, at least visually. That rear mark is 84.5 cm from the back of the tail.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/Cirquerider/icons/1smallIMG_1096copy.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/Cirquerider/icons/1smallIMG_1097.jpg

[Cirquerider]

Hmmm, and a PM vote from LeRoy Jenkins advising the old boot center (hole). I'm kind of a big guy and will be using this as primarily a pow ski. I dunno, still thinking rear mouning mark.

[mc_roon]

i mounted my old orange ones on the line. I used it purely for a pow ski and couldnt be happier. I dont know what that equates to on this new one though, but it looks like the new mount line that cirquerides points out

[Kimono]

I'm sure everyone has been following the Snow Reports at Whistler this year with 416cm in November to start the year off right and 875cm total as of last night.... Truly a magnificant year for the Swallowtails... I have 6 pairs of 188cm+ skis in the quiver and during 2 weeks of skiing over the Xmas break I spent 10 days on the AKs ... set up with Freerides I can't say enough about these skis...
To be honest I found this thread looking for another pair as a backup if anything happens to my current pair.... They're that good....
Without exaggeration these skis handle any soft snow conditions from 50+ degree deep snow to high speed lines in tracked pow to shorter radius turns in the trees... I'm more comfortable hucking on these skis than anything else I own...
Cool ability to "carve" through powder at speed with all the shape to the ski and to come right out of the snow through a turn given the light weight... Ski can also be surfed like a 100MM+ ski....
Generally sucks on the groomers but who cares

Question... I'm skiing the orange top sheet version is there any changes with the Black/green more recent skis??

[MrDirt]

Question... I'm skiing the orange top sheet version is there any changes with the Black/green more recent skis??

All of the newer ones are wood core, though there is a possibility that yours are too.

[leroy jenkins]

Generally sucks on the groomers but who cares

Question... I'm skiing the orange top sheet version is there any changes with the Black/green more recent skis??

Whaddayatalkingbout? I love the way these things carve. Sure, they're not "snappy". You actually have to work to get them to turn, but not much. Just get a bit of speed, and you can carve super hard gs turns, and almost slalom turns on em. The edge hold is great, and I can even get a decent amount of rebound out of mine.

And yea, as was said before, all the newer skis are wood core, but the old "Lab" versions were too.

[Jim S]

Just got mine mounted up and tuned yesterday.

[El Chupacabra]

Whaddayatalkingbout? I love the way these things carve. Sure, they're not "snappy". You actually have to work to get them to turn, but not much. Just get a bit of speed, and you can carve super hard gs turns, and almost slalom turns on em. The edge hold is great, and I can even get a decent amount of rebound out of mine.


I thought the edge hold on hardpack was craptastic. Then again, I didn't mess with the factory tune, which wasn't very sharp...

So far this year, my AK Rockets have seen precisely 0 days of use. (Not counting remounting with Freerides as a "day of use.") This snow season sucks so far.

[altasnowbirdripper]

I’m on my third pair and I can say this ski flat out rocks! I didn’t always feel that way about them, though. I found out that being a 6’0” 210lbs skier made the tips dive in lighter powder. I had the cursed tip dive problem! After two pairs of AK Swallows and still more tip dining in lighter powder I sold my AK Swallows for a pair of 05 Volkl Gotama's. Bomber ski! Loved them. Then found this forum review and it seems that heavier (180lbs & up) skiers with their AK Swallows mounted at the forward “dot” mark would experience the tip dive problem. Hmmmm. Sold the Gotama’s – bought a pair of 06 Swallowtails. As for the debated mounting point, I would say that if you are a heavier or harder charger, go to the rearward line mount as suggested by Cirquerider on the previous page. Problem solved & a big THANK YOU for the input from Cirquerider & the experienced skiers in TGR Forums. The way these skis can cruise down long groomers or crank out snappy quick turns at a moments notice is just damn fun. But the first time and you get into powder and you feel the tails dip and you find that you are in more of a forward attack position and can ski the steep & deep more aggressively than you could have imagined?? One word: SUBLIME! My quiver consists of 06 Volkl Karma 185, 06 Salomon Gun Lab, 06 Salomon AK Swallowtail, 07 S-Lab GS 185 (waiting patiently to be mounted). The AK Swallow's still get a little more snow time than the others. Arguably the perfect resort powder ski.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Anyone on the 06-07 ones, grey-green and white topsheet? Got a nice line on a pair but wondering if they will fold like old Pocket's. Broke two pair sold the second set of replacements. Know that he core is different, but have yet to hear a true negative. Big kid, 6'4" 240.

???

[Sensisnow]

Anyone on the 06-07 ones, grey-green and white topsheet? Got a nice line on a pair but wondering if they will fold like old Pocket's. Broke two pair sold the second set of replacements. Know that he core is different, but have yet to hear a true negative. Big kid, 6'4" 240.

???

I don't know about the 06/07 model, but I haven't had any problems with my orange/black (05/06?) models and I'm 6'5" 240.

[Bandit Man]

Broke two pair sold the second set of replacements.

You broke two pairs of Pocket Rockets or AK Swallows? Just curious...

[CaddyDaddy77]

You broke two pairs of Pocket Rockets or AK Swallows? Just curious...


Of the noodles, Robots and all. Bent the tails of the first pair with about 8 days on them. Landed backseat, expected to eject got bucked, roled and skied out of it, tails were 1.5"-2" negative. 2nd broke just in front of the binding. Thought I had a link here, but can't find it, foam shot out he sides. Neat.

Think I'm committing to a pair this next week when I get paid.

[Jim S]

Finally got on mine on some groomers, mild hardpack, and some !@#$ spring corn in February today, a few bump runs.

I love these skis. They are easy to turn , fast, tails got hung a bit in the bumps but it's my first day on them and they are 194cm.

Hopefully this weekend I can put them in the pow but I'm counting on no precip and temps in the 60s. ;)

[team ftb]

Are these ok for my midget ass? 5'6" 140, charge but I use speed more than power for bending my skiis to turn.

I'm on 174 Apache Chiefs and I would like:
A. More Float
B. More heavy crud bashing ability. They get bounced and deflected too much.
C. The same or similiar quick turning ability

I demoed 185 Nordica Blowers that were decent but because of the severe snow shortage in the sierras they did not get a fair test. I found they turned quickly, had more shoulders to plow through stuff than my Chiefs but seemed real heavy.

Would the Swallowtail work in my situation?

[Bandit Man]

Hmm...that's a tough one. If you could handle the 185 blowers, the AK's will be a heck of a lot easier to ski. They can be thrown around like a 185, but handle crud and pow nicely, especially if you are <200 lbs. I've got 40 lbs. on you and find them a very manageable resort ski of mixed conditions/soft snow use.

[team ftb]

I could handle the Blowers, the downside for me was that they seemed to wear out my skinny legs:frown: . They railed through what little crud I could find (damn light snow season) and were better on the soft snow groomers than the Chiefs. I just noticed it took a lot more strength and effort for my 140 pounds to squeak the most from. But I loved the ride and performance.

Do the AK's have the same crud snow ability with less effort required?

[MrDirt]

Considering the nature of this thread, I think it would be appropriate to post that I'm selling my AK swallows. Check the gear swap. $315 shipped OBO!

[vtdownhiller]

I skied my swallows for 3 days over the blizzard, great ski for inbounds, in AK last season I skied my spats, then took out the swallows and must say the spats are the ticket for big mountain no effort turns...but the swallows carve nice and turn quick, even for east coast trees

[team ftb]

Considering the nature of this thread, I think it would be appropriate to post that I'm selling my AK swallows. Check the gear swap. $315 shipped OBO!

Hence my question being asked.

[Bandit Man]

I could handle the Blowers, the downside for me was that they seemed to wear out my skinny legs:frown: . They railed through what little crud I could find (damn light snow season) and were better on the soft snow groomers than the Chiefs. I just noticed it took a lot more strength and effort for my 140 pounds to squeak the most from. But I loved the ride and performance.

Do the AK's have the same crud snow ability with less effort required?

I haven't been on the Blowers (yet) so I cannot compare there, but the AK's do have a nice balance between pure pow and variable snow performance. Not the same crud busting as say an Explosiv (which I have skied extensively), but much easier to ski all around. The AK's have a wide but somewhat soft tip that does more absorbing vs. plowing through heavy snow, yet the length of the ski and shovel allow the ski to stay on target, if that makes any sense.

I just got some 185 Blowers mounted, so hopefully before the end of the weekend, I'll have a valid comparison, especially because it is nuking right now...

[vtdownhiller]

I find that with the sidecut and soft tip that the rocket can turn a quick edge, it is good in unbroken soft snow, the exagerated sidecut can be sluggish on groomers without speed, in deep snow you can ski it weight forward and the tail really sinks when you need it to, all in all, pound for pound it is the best all-around pow ski out there, great to take out when you don't know what you'll be skiing

[MrDirt]

Hence my question being asked.
I'll make you a good deal so you can buy them and find out. ;)

[ulty_guy]

Anyone ski these and 180 exploders? Are these a big step up from those?

[team ftb]

I just got some 185 Blowers mounted, so hopefully before the end of the weekend, I'll have a valid comparison, especially because it is nuking right now...

I'd love to hear your feedback comparing the strengths and weaknesses relative to each other.

Is there anybody close to my wieght (140) on these things out there?

[Bandit Man]

Anyone ski these and 180 exploders? Are these a big step up from those?

I own both. I'd say that the AK's ski about the same or easier than my 180 White Wizards, even with the 195 length.

[Bandit Man]

I find that with the sidecut and soft tip that the rocket can turn a quick edge, it is good in unbroken soft snow, the exagerated sidecut can be sluggish on groomers without speed, in deep snow you can ski it weight forward and the tail really sinks when you need it to, all in all, pound for pound it is the best all-around pow ski out there, great to take out when you don't know what you'll be skiing
Totally agree with all those points...

[Jim S]

I own both. I'd say that the AK's ski about the same or easier than my 180 White Wizards, even with the 195 length.

+ 1

...

[altasnowbirdripper]

Does anyone know if Salomon is bringing back the AK Swallowtail, or I guess it's probably called the XWing AK Rocket, back in thier lineup for 2008??

[marshalolson]

i believe that this year was its last year.

it is being replaced next season with the AK XW, a 198cm, 107mm waisted twin.

[Phill]

So basically a ~ 191 cm?

[leroy jenkins]

i believe that this year was its last year.


:(

That ski holds a special place in my heart. I progressed more using that as my one ski quiver than on any other pair (or quiver) of skis I've had since. RIP forgiving stable nimble floaty do evertyhing soft skis that look super burly.

[endlesswntr]

If anyone wants a pair of 05s, brand new, let me know. I've got a line on some for $399. I don't even know if that counts as a deal...ah whatever.

[marshalolson]

So basically a ~ 191 cm?

yeah prolly about that...

i tape'd them off closer to 199.5cm too. big skis. wood core. pretty sweet.

[altasnowbirdripper]

I second Leroy Jenkins on the AK Swallow. I'll never forget the first time I got them into 3 feet of day old untracked powder. Wow how damn cool it was to ski way FAST and actually carve through powder in a more forward position! When you actually feel the tails sink & the tips raise is just sooo freakin cool! I will miss this ski! Damn if only I could get my hands on a pair of the legendary Athlete issue 205's! That would be THE killer quiver ski to have! Too bad Salomon didn’t make a 08 205cm XWing AK Rocket Swallow to end it right and go out with a BANG! Oh well. On the flipside - I too am very eager to try the 08 198cm XWing Lab. Anyone know approximately how stiff it is and/or what ski the flex of it would compare to??

[Jim S]

If this is the twin you are referring to, I demo'd it and loved it this year at Mt Rose on wind blown hard pack and some light corn. I'm getting it for sure next year. It seemed a bit easier to turn than the AK Rocket but just as stable at speed and went through crud nicely.

[altasnowbirdripper]

Too bad Salomon never made the 205cm AK Swallowtail a little more available to a beater like me! I think the 205cm AK Swallowtail would be so damn freakin SICK! I was just out on my 195's and about the only thing I could think that would make the ski perfect is what the 205 AK Swallow was - both a little longer & wider. Anyone out there know someone who has a pair of the oh so scarce Team Issue Salomon AK Swallow 205 so I can bug the SHIT out of them until they finally cave in & sell them to me?!!?!?

[leroy jenkins]

Too bad Salomon never made the 205cm AK Swallowtail a little more available to a beater like me! I think the 205cm AK Swallowtail would be so damn freakin SICK! I was just out on my 195's and about the only thing I could think that would make the ski perfect is what the 205 AK Swallow was - both a little longer & wider. Anyone out there know someone who has a pair of the oh so scarce Team Issue Salomon AK Swallow 205 so I can bug the SHIT out of them until they finally cave in & sell them to me?!!?!?

Yea, the superfat 205cm ak rocket would be a lot of people's dream ski, but I doubt either you or I will even even lay eyes on a pair. From what I've heard, theres less than 10 pairs in the world. I think they're stiffer than the 195s too.

The normal 205s, with the same dims and flex as the 195s would be fun too though. I've seen a couple pairs for sale in the last few years.

[altasnowbirdripper]

Damn 91 days this year, awesome!

Were the pairs of 205 Ak Swallows that you saw for sale listed here on TGR?

[ulty_guy]

Well, trigger has been pulled on an ebay pair with binders for just 200 bucks, just couldn't resist. These are the purple-ish ones with the red S on the front, are these wood or foam?

[Kroenen]

Well, trigger has been pulled on an ebay pair with binders for just 200 bucks, just couldn't resist. These are the purple-ish ones with the red S on the front, are these wood or foam?

Wood. You'll love them.

[SkiBumOfVT]

Would there be a minimum weight limit on these skis, would anyone reccomend them in the east?

[altasnowbirdripper]

Not sure what you mean for a minimum weight limit - I guess the skiers size or weight. I know a few guys who weigh in the 150 range and have no problem skiing these skis. They are very light to begin with. The actual effective metal edge length that touches the snow is 185cm. They really do feel incredibly nimble & snappy on groomers. For me the biggest surprise with this ski was how great they skied on the groomers. You can make any turn shape, even fairly tight slalom turns when pushed. I think they would be a perfect addition to an East Coast skier quiver. I would mount them on the more forward mounting point (dot mark in middle of the ski). The newer rearward line mount point is better suited for mostly skiing off piste. Also, I wouldn’t make it my only ski, you could definitely do it out here(I did for all of 05/06 season) but for East Coast skiers, you'd probably need to have another pair of skis that were more suited to on piste skiing & handling East Coast boiler. In all honesty they really don’t feel long like a true 195. I wish I could make mine the same dimensions of the super rare team issue 205'er - 195 effective edge length & a 101mm waist! I’d kill for a pair of those! For me the extra length & width would be perfect for resort/back country skiing out here in the west. Can’t say enough good about them! GO BUY A PAIR! You won’t be disappointed!

[altasnowbirdripper]

Would there be a minimum weight limit on these skis, would anyone reccomend them in the east?

I know of a pir of last years black-gray Salomon AK Swallows in ecellent shape for $200.00 if your interested.