$999 I-book vs any PC laptop.

[steepconcrete]

what is the best lap top for the money as far as surfing the web, e-mail......and TGR is concerned. Fuck games, although Id love to play them all the time...they are a huge timewaster....but if CounterStirke could be played for a little bit more cash Id be all over it.

Im just really looking for internet compatibility wherever I may roam, is this possible?

[NorCalPWDR]

what is the best lap top for the money as far as surfing the web, e-mail......and TGR is concerned. Fuck games, although Id love to play them all the time...they are a huge timewaster....but if CounterStirke could be played for a little bit more cash Id be all over it.

Im just really looking for internet compatibility wherever I may roam, is this possible?
Well,
I would say for the money...the $999 iBook is hard to beat. You will here the PC clan say otherwise, but when you look at the software bundled in the mac, it's impressive. You get the iLife suite, which slams anything a PC can be "bundled" with, IMHO. As far as ease of use, navigation, customer support, resale value, all these things lean towards the mac. I've spent good money on both PC's and Mac's...now, i'm a mac guy for good. Using a 12" G4 Powerbook right now actually. If you have any more specific questions, feel free to PM me.

[Obstruction]

I like my G3 I Book (work provided) just fine but I work in a Windoze office and the IT monkeys treat it like an illegal alien so I get no support (that's alright with a mac I don't need it) and no assistance getting on the server so I have use my dell desktop to do most of my intraweb stuff and file exchanging. I can leach the wireless in the office quite easily however.

Last week I bought my college student daughter a new cheap dell laptop ($499) . Their sales support sucked so I can only imagine how bad it will be if I need tech support.

Bottom line -- any moron can happily use a mac for ordinary computer functions and kick ass graphic, music and publishing apps and when it occaisionally screws up you can straighten it out. In the windoze world if you haven't got techies backing you up God help you.

[steepconcrete]

thanks guys.
12" G4 is exacally what I am looking at. I like the small size, but my concern is getting all cramped up with it being so small...dosent seem like it would be as comfy to use.

[NorCalPWDR]

thanks guys.
12" G4 is exacally what I am looking at. I like the small size, but my concern is getting all cramped up with it being so small...dosent seem like it would be as comfy to use.
The 12" is perfect...actually, i had a 14" iBook, i just sold it to upgrade to a 12" Powerbook. I was very concerned about the screen size etc, but it's been NO problem. The keyboard is full sized, so that is no concern. Also, 12" is perfect mobility-wise. I have zero regrets about the 12", in fact...i don't think i'll buy anything bigger. BTW, let me know what prices you find for the macs you're looking at...PM me.

[Obstruction]

Also if you have an education connection, ie student, married to a student, teacher, etc. check out the apple education store. It's one of the only places I've ever seen where you can get a real discount on current apple product, including Ipods.

[steepconcrete]

im all over it obstruction, mom is a teacher, its like 10% off computers with a free i-pod mini thrown in.

im thinking a powerbook over the i-book simply for recording music.

any thoughts?

[Platinum Pete]

im thinking a powerbook over the i-book simply for recording music.

any thoughts?
Go Pwoerbook with Bluetooth. Apple is pushing Bluetooth big time, so says my friends who develop Mac software. Think of all the rumors of iPodPhones, Bluetooth iPods, Apple Media Boxes connected to your powerbook, etc. iSync has a lot more in it's coding than the functionality currently offered.
Steve Jobs is way into simplicity and eliminating cords fits that profile.

[Obstruction]

Steep,

I'm a cheap bastard so I always low-ball figuring the features in the next model up are ones I won't use or will be free next time around.

That said the bluetooth and other features that Pete mentioned are pretty slick. looks like apples to apples (ptp) the 12" pbook is about $450 more than a comprable 12" ibook withe the edu discount. If you're into using a lot of wireless gadgets and want more processor speed and memory (could be useful with the music recording) the pb is definetly the way to go. If your hard core cheap then its the ib.

Enjoy.

[bossass]

60 percent of tech support calls to Dell are virus/spyware related. Everyone I know that is not tech savvy when it comes to maintaining a PC has reached a point with a PC laptop where it is so corrupted with viruses and shit that it is unusable.

I have a G3 iBook that has performed well for nearly 2.5 years. There was an issue with the logic board failing twice, but my particular model was under an extended warrenty for the logic board. So, while my ibook was outside of the one year warranty, the logic board was replaced twice with little hassle and zero data loss twice. If it happens again I'll get a brand new G4 for free. Can't beat service like that. My G3 is still fine for basic stuff and I used a G4 this weekend and it is a clear level above the G3 books. Just make sure you amp up the RAM.

As said above, the bundled software (iTunes, iLife, etc) is powerful and incredibly easy to use. You'd spend at least $150 on comparable apps for Windows (assuming you didnt' pirate them).

Walk in support if you live somewhere with an Apple Store.

Apples phone support is great and comprehensive (free for first 90 days and then for one year with Apple Care Plan)

You'll save tons of time with an Apple over PC. I have never run or dealt with any sort of virus, spyware or popup problem. No programs to buy or run.

I think the big thing for me is integration. Find somebody who has an iPod and ask them to name why they like it. They usually say (ease of use, integration with iTunes/Garageband/etc, aesthetics, value, selection, accesories, etc) All these elements exist in Apple computers as well. Try OS X Tiger sometime. It runs circles around XP.

Resale value is huge too. That $1000 ibook (not to mention the iPod mini) will be worth at least $500 in two years. Your Dell will make a nice doorstop.

Can't speak to much to the iBook vs. Powerbook not know what exactly you're doing with it. But, I think an iBook with some externals (Firewire HD and nice firewire DVD burner--you can get a nice one for around $100) will be pretty tits.

I have the 14 inch book and I wouldn't mind the smaller one. You can always hook it up to another moniter (although the ibooks only mirror the screen, while the powerbooks actually use up the real estate of a bigger screen).






Just kidding, get a Dell.

[Sphinx]

Red Hat Linux. :yourock:

Seriously, I've had exactly one problem with my Dell Inspiron in three years of daily use. And that was fixed fairly easily (though I did get to rant about Microsoft support here :D).

If you can't maintain your computer to the point where spyware and viruses shut you down, you need to work on your most basic computer skills.

Mac users sound like telemark skiers to me.

[steepconcrete]

thanks all.
I gotta decide between--

i-book 12"
$949.00

1.2GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache @1.2GHz
12-inch TFT Displays
1024x768 resolution
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
30GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
AirPort Extreme built-in


OR

powerbook 12"
$1,399.00

12.1-inch TFT Display
1024x768 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
60GB Hard Drive
NVIDIA GeForce FX
Go5200 (64MB DDR)
Full size keyboard
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
FireWire 400
Analog audio in/out
Mini-DVI out

both with free i-pod mini

Id like to use it for is recording music, nothing real serious, but I want to be able to use quality mics w/preamp, that is where the analog input catches my eye on the powerbook, but is it worth the extra $400? I dunno.

[backpack]

just a quick note: dell is actually very responsive if you have even the slightest clue what you're talking about. I got my hard drive, motherboard, and then the whole laptop replaced with minimal fuss (most of this stuff happened in the last 6 months of a 4-year warranty). All I had to do was send 2 emails and I had a brand new laptop at my door in 3 days... and it was a new model, too. :cool:

Also, I should note that the thing that led to my laptop being replaced was my dropping it about 4 feet onto the concrete floor of a lab. ;)

One other thing that probably doesn't matter to most people is that you can't get a 1920x1200 LCD on a mac laptop. High pixel density is nice for image editing.

On further inspection, it looks like the "free" replacement laptop I got almost a year ago has specifications most similar to the $2700 powerbook 17. Not bad for warranty service, eh?

Oh, and don't forget that Apple is moving to Intel chips in a year or so... normally I wouldn't worry about the regular upgrades, but this is a pretty major change.

[cj001f]

On further inspection, it looks like the "free" replacement laptop I got almost a year ago has specifications most similar to the $2700 powerbook 17. Not bad for warranty service, eh?
And you pay a fortune for that dell warranty service. The "4 yr premium solution package" is 30-40% of the cost of a lower end ($1k) Dell. Thank you, no, the odds aren't in my favor.

A Mac would be nice if all I wanted to do was e-mail and other low end tasks, and I didn't care about Office compatibility with my documents.

[steepconcrete]

A Mac would be nice if all I wanted to do was e-mail and other low end tasks, and I didn't care about Office compatibility with my documents.

I thought that Mac's were generally better as far as art shit goes--> graffic design, music and video editing??

edit--I know your not talking about artsy crap, but that is all Im going for.

[bossass]

I thought that Mac's were generally better as far as art shit goes--> graffic design, music and video editing??
edit--I know your not talking about artsy crap, but that is all Im going for.

They are better for that stuff. Final Cut Express--$300, Logic Express--similar (Garageband is pretty damn good too, depending on what you are looking to do) Mac users in the ski photo/video world: Dave Reddick, Kris Ostness, Eric Pollard, TGR, and I'm sure lots others.


Microsoft Office is available for Macs, I think for around $100 for the student edition (exact same as full version, minus some little shit you'll probably never use). It runs Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc--better than Windows (read the reviews). You can email docs, copy them, burn them, whatever and they'll be able to be read by both Mac and PC just fine. They myth of incompatability should be dead but apparently it's not.

Apple has been writing versions of its OS for intel secretly for the past five years. The intel chips won't hit the Powerbooks for at least 16 months. At this point the best advice is to by the best computer you need, now. The real point of concern in this issue is buyer's who get the first round of Intel Apple and having compatablitly problems with existing programs.

I would actually equate Apple users to Powder skiers. We've all banged bumps, surfed slush, and skidded around on ice. At some point you get buy some fatty pow boards and buy some heli-time, because why shouldn't we experience the best skiing has to offer?

It sounds like you'll appreciate the extra power of the Powerbook in the long run. I think it's worth $400. I bought my G3 iBook 800 for $1500 only 2.5 years ago, you're getting a damn good deal. I like the bigger HD on the PB. I have 30 gb and I had it all used up pretty easy until I bought a 120gb firewire external drive and saved my iTunes music there (great buy, nice to free up space, but now my iTunes don't travel with me)

[cj001f]

They myth of incompatability should be dead but apparently it's not.
It's not compatibility, it's cost. If you aren't a student you shell out another $400 for Office - no piecemeal bundles like there are available for the PC. Then there are the other things I do like Autocad, etc. that simply aren't written for the mac. And yeah, I'm sure there are workaround hacks. I'm lazy and cheap.

[steepconcrete]

thanks bossass. great info.

garageband and then final cut express is basically what got me on the Mac train to begin with. After messing around with a bandmates G5 with Final cut, I was hooked on Mac's. I realized that I have been wasting a lot of time with my 4-track and drum machine.

what do yall think of the 3 year warranty extention? Its like $260, worth it?

[steepconcrete]

It's not compatibility, it's cost. If you aren't a student you shell out another $400 for Office - no piecemeal bundles like there are available for the PC. Then there are the other things I do like Autocad, etc. that simply aren't written for the mac. And yeah, I'm sure there are workaround hacks. I'm lazy and cheap.

totally.

my cousin is a archatect? (guy who designs buildings, Im drunk sorry) no way could he use a mac for the nutty program he has to use.

[bossass]

It's not compatibility, it's cost. If you aren't a student you shell out another $400 for Office - no piecemeal bundles like there are available for the PC. Then there are the other things I do like Autocad, etc. that simply aren't written for the mac. And yeah, I'm sure there are workaround hacks. I'm lazy and cheap.


$139 on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B0001WN16M/102-7900266-5520109?SubscriptionId=0SKDD7D2HFZZJ3N003G2)

You can get a full version for $200. (I'm sure you could get both cheaper on eBay)

Incidentally, iWork (Apples suite of "office" apps) '05 is pretty damn impressive. Keynote (powerpoint) is visually stunning, so easy to use, and cinema quality graphics/animation/photo/video will impress the hell out of all the Lumburghs sick of watching boring and ugly powerpoint presentations and you can save/import/export as PP for/from him. Pages (word) is also ridiculously easy to use, comes with tons of attractive templates AND you can save anything as a Word file for all your PC homies. $79

[Spats]

PC is better if you care about price/performance.
Apple is better if you can afford the extra $ and just want to do normal basic computer stuff without worrying about whether it works.

Make no mistake, Apple costs extra. They charge more for a point release of OSX than a new copy of WinXP costs, you can get a $800 PC laptop that will kick the stuffing out of a $1500 Powerbook, and their customer service totally sucks unless you buy the extended warranty for another $300. But you get a nicely integrated system in which everything pretty much works together out of the box, and the default configuration doesn't get you a Trojan before you can download the service packs. Your call.

[NorCalPWDR]

PC is better if you care about price/performance.
Apple is better if you can afford the extra $ and just want to do normal basic computer stuff without worrying about whether it works.

Make no mistake, Apple costs extra. They charge more for a point release of OSX than a new copy of WinXP costs, you can get a $800 PC laptop that will kick the stuffing out of a $1500 Powerbook, and their customer service totally sucks unless you buy the extended warranty for another $300. But you get a nicely integrated system in which everything pretty much works together out of the box, and the default configuration doesn't get you a Trojan before you can download the service packs. Your call.
WHOA...you have to be kidding me?

1. Apple costs extra? Windows XP + or - $100
Mac OS X + or - $120
how much do you HAVE to spend on Spyware and "Virus" protection for a PC? $40, $60? how much for a Mac? $0.00.
As far as whats bundled with Mac OSX...there's not much software you could put together for, let's say $500 that can compare(iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, Garageband).

2. How can a $800 PC kick a $1500 Powerbook? you really are joking now...that would be comparing an entry level Dell with a Powerbook? How can it kick the stuffing? Meaning performance? The PB will process just about anything you do on it quicker than a $800 PC, graphics, programs, video, etc.

3. Customer Service. I have one question for you...after you buy your Dell from the Smokey Mcpot kid, what happens? Can you walk into a store for up to a year after(free of charge) and get 1 on 1 service to resolve your issue? Is every part and labor covered? Is there a 800# you can call most times of the day and talk to REAL person within a couple minutes?

Oh and, you can open email without cringing that your computer will blow up every time. :the_finge

edit: here's a link to a cost comparison between a Mac & PC(it's for desktop, but you get the idea) Mac vs. PC Cost Comparison (http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4895)

[Sphinx]

http://www.seidler.com/GIF-animated/war.gif

[DJSapp]

WHOA...you have to be kidding me?

1. Apple costs extra? Windows XP + or - $100
Mac OS X + or - $120
how much do you HAVE to spend on Spyware and "Virus" protection for a PC? $40, $60? how much for a Mac? $0.00.
As far as whats bundled with Mac OSX...there's not much software you could put together for, let's say $500 that can compare(iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, Garageband).


Who actually pays for antivirus, antispyware, or media software? May I present downloads.cnet.com with AVG antivirus, adaware, spybot, and thousands of video and pic editors.

Total cost = $0.00

PC's are great if you know what you're doing. If not, get a Mac.

[backpack]

And you pay a fortune for that dell warranty service. The "4 yr premium solution package" is 30-40% of the cost of a lower end ($1k) Dell. Thank you, no, the odds aren't in my favor.

A 3 or 4 year is standard on the more expensive laptops. I should perhaps note that at the time I bought my original one it was about $2100 with the warranty for a higher-end model.

Also, none of the service ever cost me anything. When it was user serviceable, like the hard drive, they sent a pre-paid shipping label to send the broken one back. They also sent someone to my house the day after I called to try and fix the "dropped" problem. No driving to an apple store 600 miles away or waiting to mail it in. They come to you.

Of course, neither apple nor dell nor anyone else really offers a good warranty with their low-end laptops or desktops unless you want to pay a lot extra.

[cj001f]

A 3 or 4 year is standard on the more expensive laptops. I should perhaps note that at the time I bought my original one it was about $2100 with the warranty for a higher-end model.
It's an option on all of Dell's laptops.

[steepconcrete]

so I went to the mac store and I have to order it thru apple, they would not honor the free i-pod.

[Platinum Pete]

Check in with MacForce in PDX, they have been pretty cool with me. Smalldog.com tends to be good on prices. I bought a refurb direct from Apple and got a full warranty and an iBook that has given me zero problems for a few hundo less than retail.

[backpack]

It's an option on all of Dell's laptops.

It's an option on everything, but a 3 year warranty is the standard on the expensive stuff. Sure, you can choose not to take it, but it's part of the advertised price.

For example, on a $2,289 laptop, a three year warranty is included in the base price. You can do away with it and save $229, but the 3-year is the standard selection that you get if you don't specifically exclude it.

[bossass]

Once when my logic board failed I brought it in to an authorized mac reseller and they sent it in to apple for warranty repair free, it was gone about a week. Second time I called Apple directly and they overnighted a paid overnight box, had it two days, sent it back overnight. If that's not good service (considering they addressed a part defect on a computer that was outside of it's original warranty) then I don't know what is.

Their are mac resellers everywhere and you can take your Apple to any of them and get warranty service. Even internationally in any country with mac resellers, which is most.

What's the deal with the notion Macs are only for "basic stuff for people who don't know much about computers"? Most professionals in video and audio use Apples, are they basic users? The movie Cold Mountain was made entirely with Final Cut Pro and four older G4 Towers. I guess that was just basic stuff though. :rolleyes:

I don't want to say that everybody should get macs because all PCs suck. That's not true. But there's absolutely no reason to slam Apple for the simple reason all claims are baseless. Yeah they are more expensive, but when you factor in software, resale value, and service they really aren't.

I'm not qualified to talk about Linux and Unix, but every computer geek I've talked to can't stop talking about how great macs are for running these.

[cj001f]

Macs won't run the the programs I need. The programs I need aren't written for a Mac. Many (most!) technical programs outside of A & V aren't written for a Mac. Hence they are only good for basic uses, if you need to use programs like Autocad, Arcgis, etc.

Mac people sure are sensitive.

[Spats]

WHOA...you have to be kidding me?

1. Apple costs extra? Windows XP + or - $100
Mac OS X + or - $120


Yes, it sure does. That's for a new, full installation of XP, and Microsoft releases the service packs for free. Apple charges you $129 for 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4...if you had bought OSX when it came out, you would have spent over $500 just getting it up to date!

Anti-spyware and anti-virus are free, as previously mentioned.



As far as whats bundled with Mac OSX...there's not much software you could put together for, let's say $500 that can compare(iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, Garageband).


You obviously haven't spent any time checking out free PC software, of which there is a lot more than there is for the Mac.

Of course, on the Mac, it's all nicely built in, which was my point in the first place: you pay more, but you get an easy-to-use package with everything built in. For a lot of people, that's a good tradeoff, and I may end up making it myself -- not because I can't maintain a PC, but because I'm sick of it.



2. How can a $800 PC kick a $1500 Powerbook? you really are joking now...that would be comparing an entry level Dell with a Powerbook?


Yes, I am. There's a reason Apple is going to Intel, and it's because Steve Jobs realized this long ago. They wouldn't make such a major, sweeping change unless it were necessary to stay in the market.

As far as audio and video: the audio market used to be mostly Mac, because Pro Tools PC (and Cubase) either didn't exist or totally sucked. Now it's about half and half, and the PC is gaining because the raw performance is so much better. Apple bought Emagic to try and slow the hemorrhage, but all they've done so far is screw up Logic and piss off their users. (Tech support that used to be free now costs $200/call and is totally not helpful, according to the few people that actually paid it.)

[NorCalPWDR]

Yes, I am. There's a reason Apple is going to Intel, and it's because Steve Jobs realized this long ago. They wouldn't make such a major, sweeping change unless it were necessary to stay in the market.

Good points...also though, i think the "major" change is that Intel may be able to make the G5 chip that will actually work in the Powerbooks.

[bossass]

Good points...also though, i think the "major" change is that Intel may be able to make the G5 chip that will actually work in the Powerbooks.

Exactly. Apple is planning for the future, not catching up. PowerPC just couldn't deliver what Apple wanted fast enough. They want the G5 in Powerbooks and they'll have a dual 3.0ghz Powermac by this time next year.

I agree Macs aren't for all, like those needing cad programs, etc. The same way PCs aren't for all, like those who need Audio/video programs that work really well.

OSX updates are expensive because Apple's upgrades are actual upgrades. There are impressive features that make 10.4 waaay better than 10.3. XP, meanwhile, has sucked for five years. I can't wait to see how much Longhorn sweats the features in OSX, or attempts to anyway.

[Snow Dog]

Good points...also though, i think the "major" change is that Intel may be able to make the G5 chip that will actually work in the Powerbooks.
The G5 is a PowerPC and is owned by Motorola and IBM. Intel has nothing to do with it.

IBM uses it in some of their servers. The PowerPC core is used in embedded applications like Ford engine controllers. The PowerPC core is also used in the PlayStation3 and the XBOX 360.

Apple is moving to Intel because it'll be much easier for third parties to write device drivers for Macs. I'm sure there'll be a toolkit for porting applications from XP to OSX.

[DJSapp]

What's the deal with the notion Macs are only for "basic stuff for people who don't know much about computers"? Most professionals in video and audio use Apples, are they basic users? The movie Cold Mountain was made entirely with Final Cut Pro and four older G4 Towers. I guess that was just basic stuff though. :rolleyes:


Well, there are two kinds of mac users, basic users who don't know much about computers that would greatly benefit from bundled software, ease of use, etc., and the audio video professionals who do not need to ask the mac vs. pc question. Therefore, if you ask the mac vs. pc question, odds are you are a person who is a basic user.

The mid level users (like myself) benefit most from pc's. I run autocad, microstation, timberline, and several other small pc only engineering programs at work, and at home I play the occasional COMPUTER GAME. Oh yeah, macs don't really get those ;)

[bossass]

So, if you are a professional running autocad, and other engineering type programs or you are a hardcore gamer (Titles released on both platforms are rapidly growing), then you should get a PC. This leaves the rest of us, which I guess are called basic users and audio/video professionals, and I'm guessing are over half of the people who use this forum (not mac owners, but people who would benefit from being one). I guess that's a pretty logical explanation of why Apples CPU market share is consistantly growing.

I also enjoy the occasional computer game and I'm quite happy to play it on my $150 Playstation 2. The graphics are great. I hear XBoxs are pretty good too, and both will only get better in the coming year. ;)

[DJSapp]

Bossass, in my world a basic user is someone who only runs MS Office style apps and internet (about 75% of the home computing market). The division line between macs and pc's seems to be which techinical programs exist for each system. Macs have audio and video, pc's have just about everything else.

And yeah, title releases on Macs are growing, they're just about 1 year behind the pc title release list :the_finge

[joshbu]

Dude, for your desired application (web and email,) if you spend $1200 you're just insane. You can get perfectly service-able Dell laptops for under $700 now. Are you really going to be editing broadcast or higher definition video? Do you really having nothing better to do with 500 bones?

Incidently, I have internet anywhere I roam: http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/splash.jsp?v=9 but of course, there are no Mac drivers for that.

[Arty50]

Incidently, I have internet anywhere I roam: http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/splash.jsp?v=9 but of course, there are no Mac drivers for that.

Meh. There are tons of WiFi network in most major cities. Or you can use a Mac's built in bluetooth to connect to the internet via your bluetooth enabled 3G phone; which isn't very different from using that PC card. Also, WiMax is going to hit the market soon and it's gonna blow the doors off all the 3G networks. A city wide installation is up and running in Seattle. And guess who's driving WiMax...Intel. Plans call for mobo level WiMax chips (ala Centrino/WiFi) in the next couple of years.



The G5 is a PowerPC and is owned by Motorola and IBM. Intel has nothing to do with it.

Actually, the G5 design and its related patents are owned by IBM. Nobody else can make G5s without obtaining a license. The G4 is a Motorola design. IBM fabricated G4s at one time, but only through a special production contract with Moto. Since then, Motorola has spun off their semiconductor division and it's now know as Freescale. The PowerPC instruction set is actually owned by the old AIM (Apple, IBM, Motorola) alliance. It's a derivative of the Power instruction set owned by IBM.

Frankly, I'm not going to miss any of it. The AIM alliance was a good idea in theory, but turned out to be a nightmare. The three companies stopped sharing designs back in the G3 days. Moto designed the G4, but IBM didn't want to go in that direction. Then Moto dropped the ball on the PC front, and Apple went with IBM and the G5. Then IBM dropped the ball.

Intel has other PC customers than Apple. So there's a lot more pressure on them to deliver cheaply and on time.

[DINMS]

I'm hungry.

Mac users are funny.

[squaretail]

Seems simple, really.

If you want to run photo and graphics apps, get a Mac.

If you need to run autocad/engineering/architechtual apps, get a PC.

If you're doing none of the above, and just want reliable internet/email, I'd get the iBook for $949. Easily the most hassle-free machine under $1k. You don't need the Powerbook for this type of usage.

[skier666]

I just read this thread and its hilarious. PC vs. Apple.

This should be interesting to people:

http://www.mac-sucks.com/index.php

"Graphic Design

Mac ruled the graphic industry for many years in the early and mid 90:s. The main reason for this was that the applications used in the industry was only available for macs. This changed however and everything that you can get for a mac nowadays you can also get for your PC. In fact there are many things you can get for your PC and not for your mac.

The myth that Apple has hung on to the longest is the photoshop-filters myth. They still claim to beat the best PC:s avaiable with their top of the line systems. This has been proven wrong in numerous tests though and Apple's own tests are very poorly documented. "

[bossass]

That's a pretty stupid website. They sound like replicans (i.e.-the other guys are bad, because we say so!)

Making claims, without actually backing it up, like linking to articles, reviews, etc. is pretty suspect...journalistically speaking anyway, which we all know the internets is not.

Red flags flew up for me when they went after the iPod. You can hate the way it's entered pop culture, but I challange you to find a review/article that finds another mp3 player to be even comparable. They tried to claim that you could not record with an iPod, which was true, like 2 1/2 years ago. Now Belkin makes an accessory that records with a mini speaker for playback and has a jack on top to accept a microphone, much the same way recording with MiniDisc works. The whole thing pops on the top of the ipod and makes it about an inch taller. If that's not recording, I don't know what is.







I just read this thread and its hilarious. PC vs. Apple.

This should be interesting to people:

http://www.mac-sucks.com/index.php

"Graphic Design

Mac ruled the graphic industry for many years in the early and mid 90:s. The main reason for this was that the applications used in the industry was only available for macs. This changed however and everything that you can get for a mac nowadays you can also get for your PC. In fact there are many things you can get for your PC and not for your mac.

The myth that Apple has hung on to the longest is the photoshop-filters myth. They still claim to beat the best PC:s avaiable with their top of the line systems. This has been proven wrong in numerous tests though and Apple's own tests are very poorly documented. "

[skier666]

I'm not a PC fanboy or anything, I just thought that site made some good points, and the main testimonial with the guy on the main page is hilarious.

About the IPOD, you need to do some research. I'm pretty sure that little mic input on the ipod is only for recoding lectures, etc. at 8kHz, 16 bit mono WAV files.
.
Minidisc and DAT recorders are still one up on IPOD because you can record 44 khz uncompressed PCM full - uncompressed audio into them. The new HI-MD can record up to 90 mins of uncompressed audio on a 1 GB disc, which only retails for $6.99....which is stupid cheap for media that can be recorded over and over again, is indestructible, used as storage media as well.

For people, like my lame ass who buys most of his music on vinyl, Minidisc is still the best choice for making recordings and then digitally uploading without any compression.

[bossass]

I'm not a PC fanboy or anything, I just thought that site made some good points, and the main testimonial with the guy on the main page is hilarious.

About the IPOD, you need to do some research. I'm pretty sure that little mic input on the ipod is only for recoding lectures, etc. at 8kHz, 16 bit mono WAV files.
.
Minidisc and DAT recorders are still one up on IPOD because you can record 44 khz uncompressed PCM full - uncompressed audio into them. The new HI-MD can record up to 90 mins of uncompressed audio on a 1 GB disc, which only retails for $6.99....which is stupid cheap for media that can be recorded over and over again, is indestructible, used as storage media as well.

For people, like my lame ass who buys most of his music on vinyl, Minidisc is still the best choice for making recordings and then digitally uploading without any compression.

Right. My point was it's a lame argument against the iPod. It's like saying DH skis suck because they don't ride switch in the park. Well, no shit, that's not what they are meant for. No MP3 player is ideal for recording live music, recording it well anyway.

[Spats]

The big problem I have with the iPod is that Apple still hasn't figured out how to not put a 1-second gap between every song on a CD.

This is totally inexcusable. Does no one at Apple listen to DJ mixes, classical music, or even Pink Floyd?

Rio figured this out several years ago with the Karma. It's not difficult, even if you're playing straight MP3, to glue two tracks together without a gap in the middle. Even the dumb players generally only glitch for an instant -- it's like no programmer at Apple has figured out the freshman Comp Sci concept of "double-buffering". Ooooo...scary stuff.

[bossass]

The big problem I have with the iPod is that Apple still hasn't figured out how to not put a 1-second gap between every song on a CD.

This is totally inexcusable. Does no one at Apple listen to DJ mixes, classical music, or even Pink Floyd?

Rio figured this out several years ago with the Karma. It's not difficult, even if you're playing straight MP3, to glue two tracks together without a gap in the middle. Even the dumb players generally only glitch for an instant -- it's like no programmer at Apple has figured out the freshman Comp Sci concept of "double-buffering". Ooooo...scary stuff.

Pilot error. It's a preference in iTunes. My techno beats flow smoove like Spatulas on powda.

[Spats]

Pilot error. It's a preference in iTunes. My techno beats flow smoove like Spatulas on powda.

No, it's not pilot error.

If you tell iTunes rip the entire album as one track, yes, it'll be gapless on any player. But then I have to re-rip every CD I have that needs gapless playback, and I can't use track indices to move around. This is totally prehistoric, especially when Apple could fix it with a trivial amount of software smarts.

I know this was still the situation as of early this year...correct me if I'm wrong.

[bossass]

Your right, that's what I was talking about.

I guess I don't have to many albums this is an issue for, so it doesn't bother me.

Still a pretty minute complaint, for most users anyway--you and techno heads excluded, against the ipod.

[Arty50]

New iBooks are coming next week...so wait.

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0507ibook2.html

^ this site has been absolute $$$$$ when it comes to rumors. I'd say the chance of new models coming out next week is around 95%.

[Out_to_lunch]

I got my 15" powerbook the other week, and it is by far the best computer Ive used(at least of the ones that have been in my house). Garageband is pretty good, but I still like using finale better (but thats not free is it) Basically its awesome

[bossass]

Update:

Regarding recording audio with an iPod. I found out yesterday that you can install Linux (another thing other player's can't do) on any 3rd Gen or earlier Ipod and then record through the headphone jack at 98khz. For those that don't know that's studio grade recording--cds are roughly 24khz and DAT is like 48khz. Pretty impressive. And apparently it's real easy to mod a dock connecter cable to allow for recording in stereo.

You can do tons of other cool stuff with linux and it's easy to soft boot back to your iPod/iTunes software.

[natty dread]

what do yall think of the 3 year warranty extention? Its like $260, worth it?

Like one of the tech guys at an apple store told me, it's the people who don't get applecare who end up having expensive problems.

But in my case this wasn't true. I got applecare and both my hard drive and superdrive have failed in the last 6 months in my 2 year old 17" powerbook (btw, never heard of a powerbook having so many problems as mine). With applecare, all hardware problems are covered, so the new hard drive and disc drive were taken care of. So my warranty has paid for itself and then some. Also laptop monitor problems can be very expensive.

Just be sure that if you get applecare to mail in the frickin registration card and confirm that you are registered. I forgot to do this and it was a total shitshow getting my applecare honored even though I had the sales receipt showing I bought it. Multiple phone calls and faxes to work it out and days of waiting, total pain in the ass.

[skier666]

Update:

Regarding recording audio with an iPod. I found out yesterday that you can install Linux (another thing other player's can't do) on any 3rd Gen or earlier Ipod and then record through the headphone jack at 98khz. For those that don't know that's studio grade recording--cds are roughly 24khz and DAT is like 48khz. Pretty impressive. And apparently it's real easy to mod a dock connecter cable to allow for recording in stereo.

You can do tons of other cool stuff with linux and it's easy to soft boot back to your iPod/iTunes software.

Nice....I may have to look into that. Oddly, I've never heard anyone mention that, I would think that would have been discussed on other forums that I frequent due to how appealing it seems. But I wonder how long, or how reliable, it is for recording at long periods at a time, say 80 mins. It may only record in intervals, and the battery WILL probably be an issue. Most players that record suck battery power faster while "recording" then during playback. I'm guessing that the IPOD would last for about an hour considering the current ratios....but again, I'll look into it. Thanks :)

[bossass]

Nice....I may have to look into that. Oddly, I've never heard anyone mention that, I would think that would have been discussed on other forums that I frequent due to how appealing it seems. But I wonder how long, or how reliable, it is for recording at long periods at a time, say 80 mins. It may only record in intervals, and the battery WILL probably be an issue. Most players that record suck battery power faster while "recording" then during playback. I'm guessing that the IPOD would that for about an hour considering the current ratios....but again, I'll look into it. Thanks :)

I saw the article in the current issue of Macworld on stands now. It's crazy, you can actually use your left Apple earbud as a mic.

[Spats]

Still a pretty minute complaint, for most users anyway--you and techno heads excluded, against the ipod.

For Apple zealots, anything Apple doesn't do isn't, by definition, worth doing.

Clearly you're an Apple zealot. I give up.

As far as "the Ipod is superior for recording because someone hacked Linux onto it and you can record through the earphones", there are MANY portable MP3 players that are both Linux-based and support recording out of the box. (I won't bother listing them since you're not listening anyway.)

[bossass]

For Apple zealots, anything Apple doesn't do isn't, by definition, worth doing.

Clearly you're an Apple zealot. I give up.

As far as "the Ipod is superior for recording because someone hacked Linux onto it and you can record through the earphones", there are MANY portable MP3 players that are both Linux-based and support recording out of the box. (I won't bother listing them since you're not listening anyway.)

Easy killer, I never said it wasn't worth doing. Your right, it (the pause between tracks) does seem like a fairly obvious oversight and I don't know why they haven't made the easy fix in the software.

I'm all ears on the linux thing. I did a quick search and couldn't find too much on linux based players, except players like winamp. Do these ones out of the box record at the same levels the iPod will? I'm honestly curious, because this was something I'd never heard of before.

The reason that iPods have a majority share of the mp3 player market is because they work. Despite all of Apple's clever brain-washing and attractive packaging, if they didn't work people wouldn't buy them. In terms of ease of use with software and management software (iTunes), Apples music store for legal downloads (no monthly fees and you actually own the music, no taking it away when you cancel membership, and a dollar a song is a decent price), and the iPods themselves--nobody touches Apple.

I have a friend who has an iRiver and he's a die hard PC dude. Even he admits it sucks. He turns it on and walks out his door in brooklyn. For five minutes it's "rebuilding library". Only about when he gets on the subway can he actually start listening to his music.

I may be a "zealot", but I'm a rational one (wait, is that possible?) Just because the cup holders in my Tacoma suck is no reason to say it's a shitty car. Just my opinion.

[skier666]

I've never owned an Ipod....and probably never will, but in any case, I've NEVER met a person that has been free of problems with their Ipod. My wife has been through three Ipod minis in the course of one year...they dicked her around for a while, so she ended buying a second one....because she didn't want to deal with/or have time to transfer music she bought off of Itunes. Then the second one broke, they finally gave her a third, but ultimately she's paid for two. Most of my friends have battery issues/volume problems. I know techy people can get in there and solve a lot of these problems, but the majority of people out there don't have time, or want to hack into a player just to make work as it is supposed to. For ex, I know that there are "drag n drop" hacks you can do, so to bypass Itunes, but how many people actually know that.

The new Sony mp3 players look pretty cool, a nice navigation menu, huge battery life, and finally play mp3's. However, you must use Sonicstage (a Sony Itunes program) and its kinda wierd, but its been getting better with each reversion.