The pack thread.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Alright, after 11 years of skiing, i've decided that i should get a pack. Questions:

How big should a pack for inbounds and lift accessed/hike-to BC be?

Do all packs have a place for shovel/probe? What should i look for in storing these things?

What are the pro's and con's of Diagonal and A-frame ski carry?

What brands should i stay away from?

Does more $$ = a better pack?

What materials are best in a pack? (most companies have numbers after the 'nylon', do these matter?)

What should i know about frames?

What are 'compression straps'?

What else should i know/did i overlook?



The search function revealed little. Too bad they erased everything over at pmag...

[seldon]

I can't help you much, but here goes anyway:

What are 'compression straps'?
Compression straps are straps of nylon webbing (not like web, they're the flat nylon stuff) that pull (compress) the soft stuff in the pack. They're typically on the sides of the pack, and allow you to crush your fleeces/gloves/etc and make the pack smaller.


Does more $$ = a better pack?
Not always. Some brands cost a lot just for the name. I'm not up on which brands are reasonably priced and which overcharge for quality, but I've heard really good things about LifeLink.


What materials are best in a pack? (most companies have numbers after the 'nylon', do these matter?)

This is the denier of the nylon. If I'm not mistaken, a higher number means a higher thread count, which in turn means a thicker, harder wearing fabric. However, it will also be heavier.

-seldon

[fez]

the ultimate lift access hike to bc pack

even on sale

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/eccStoreFront/stp/product_images/82483/F_82483_1.jpg

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/product.asp?base_no=82483

I use one of these guys for resort and lift access bc, and have a dana spire for longer adventures.

I like the dana, bomber pack, but mostly im a tall guy and dana lets you choose the size shoulder straps you have. Keeps me from getting strangled by my sternum strap.

[phUnk]

2 seasons with a DaKine Poacher here. Love it.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Originally posted by phUnk
2 seasons with a DaKine Poacher here. Love it.

ok

[Foggy_Goggles]

I'm rocking this
http://www.facewest.co.uk/Products%20pages/snowsports/backpacks/bca%20images/bcastashbc.jpg

Not perfect, but the best I've seen.

[FreakofSnow]

http://www.wookey.net/

Rockin this currently:

http://www.wookey.net/images/packs/shovelpack/shovelpack_green.jpg

Colors: Blue / Green / Red / Orange
1000 denier construction throughout
Dual daisy chains
Six compression straps
YKK zippers
One internal pocket
Internal hydration pocket and tube exit port


0.50 inch foam sheet contour molded for unparalleled comfort.
0.13 inch high-density foam top layer, for rigidity.
0.04 inch HDPE stay in shoulder strap for increased longevity.
0.06 inch HDPE frame-sheet for structural support. 0.50 inch foam-sheet contour molded for unparalleled comfort.
0.13 inch high-density foam top layer, for rigidity.
0.04 inch HDPE stay in shoulder strap for increased longevity.
0.06 inch HDPE frame-sheet for structural support.


The Wookey Shovel pack is our flagship pack. This is the pack that started it all, when in 1995, necessity inspired the creation of this sleek, high riding, one of a kind design.

The Shovel Pack features an integrated frame and harness system. The shoulder straps and back panel are one piece, giving this pack a unique fit and unparalleled comfort. The pack fits very close to the body, "like a glove", and rides high on the back. There are two reasons for this high riding design; first, when carrying 20 lbs. or less, you want to have the weight centered between the shoulder blades. The reason is, this is where the weight will affect your body's natural center of gravity the least. Second, its high riding design is out of the way while riding the lifts, so you don't need to take your pack off to get on the chair.

Wookey Backpacks, including the Shovel Pack have the best ski and snowboard carrying systems on the planet. These systems are easy to set up and use, and don't rely on bindings for support, making them friendly to telemarkers and boarders with step in bindings. The Shovel Pack has an innovative design that carries a snow shovel blade securely on the outside of the pack under the storm flap of the zipper for quick and easy access. It is water hydration system compatible and has an interior mesh pocket and tube exit port. There is an internal pocket for storage of small essentials and a snap-hook inside for keys.

The Wookey Shovel pack carries enough essential gear for single day backcountry outings or general ski area day use. Once you have experienced the sublime fit and function of this uniquely designed pack, you will feel naked without your Wookey!


http://www.wookey.net/images/packs/couloir/couloir_red.jpg

If you are doing more OB, this one kicks ass.

Enter BakerBoi to talk trash about Wookeys. Seriously, you should check them out. BOMBER!

[fez]

Wookey does make some sweet packs.

Personally I don't like how they fit me. The shovel pack is just really weird feeling to wear.

I got one for my wife and she loves it. The only problem for her is that there are WAY too many straps and buckles for her. Its a pretty good day if she has them all done up right.

[T7]

You wanna go an osprey switch. Best packs out there.

[trainnvain]

Originally posted by phUnk
2 seasons with a DaKine Poacher here. Love it.

This is a nice size pack. Don't go for the Helipro like I did before buying the Poacher (unless ya pack a sandwich and skins, because that's about all it fits). I'm really happy with the quality of the Dakines, although they have straps EVERYWHERE (rubber bands help with the strap ends).

[Dr. Crash]

Originally posted by T7
You wanna go an osprey switch. Best packs out there.

They were just introduced. What makes you say that they're the best compared to say a Stash BC, the Lowe Alpine Powder Peak or Storm Peak, the Arc'Teryx M30 (on sale, though I've read a review from a guy pretty mad at the zipper getting all the rain in), etc...

drC

[Viva]

Another big thumbs up for Wookey packs. I'm using the Sundog.

[Yossarian]

countless years with Dana Designs Bomb Pack, but really, it's better for mountaineering/climbing than ski-specific. Switched to DaKine Chute/Poacher last season, and really like the fit and feel. Taking it to a local shop to have the strappage modified however, don't like the diagonal carry system in some situations and don't like the lack of ice axe loops, and am having them changed/added. Have heard/seen very good things about the Osprey line as well.

The keys ingredients for ski packs are (help me out here people!)

- fit and shoulder strap design
- access to interior (top only vs. top and outside v. top/outside/back)
-ski carry system (a frame vs. diagonal v. centered)
-extra strappage/compression/space (shovel sleeve, gear loops, etc)
-water system (none v. camelback access vs. integrated pouch)

and then, of course there's the price.

[homerjay]

I am considering the Life-Link Boundary pack for quick shots OB. Also considering a Bomb Pack for long ass day trips or one night fast and light backpacking/corn camping. Both, incidentally, are on sale at Sierra trading post right now.

Currently I use an older Dana Shadow Peak. sometimes for me, less is more with packs, I just like a good suspension system, comfortable straps, and the ability to carry a heavy load. My pack is about 2400 ci, and it's good for day bc trips. Mine is simple in that it's top access, has a hood pouch, and has a beaver tail where I keep my shovel. Dual ice axe loops, and daisy chains on the pack to lash other gear. I line it with a kitchen garbage bag to keep things dry, and i have had no complaints. I also rigged a camelbak bladder in there. I have to carry skis A-frame, and would be interested in trying diagonal carry.

Be wary of a pack with too many bells and whistles. The more 'features' the more things that can go wrong. Also, some packs can have a multitude of straps that can get in the way. Also look for versatility, for example, my pack is used for skiing, hiking, mountaineering, climbing, bike commuting, pretty much everything. Make sure you try one on, go to a good shop, load it up with crap, and jump around and feel it. It may look good in pictures, but not fit you work a shit. Adjustability is key.

[Platinum Pete]

Off Piste mag did a pretty solid review of a bunch of ski touring packs: http://www.offpistemag.com/themag/gear/index.html
Steve House and his gang in the North Cascades reviewed the packs. They brought up some good design issues and had a lot of strong ideas. If you're not looking for a day touring pack, these bags may be too big.

Couloir (or was it another print glossy?) did a pack review at the beginning of this season for smaller packs. It was decent, not a big info resource - just opinion on a few packs, but they highlighted some packs I hadn't seen before.

What are you hoping to do with the pack? Go minimal.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Have a heli-pro and a poacher, agreed the poacher is limited, but nice for short hikes or cat skiing etc. Alos lays really flat to your back, hardly noticeable.
The poacher is a great pack, no complaints, built in H2O liner, back zip so you don't have to unload everything to get at an item or unpack skis etc. and pretty comfy. Packed snow for multiple hours with both at Silverton, and both were ample for the task, just took the poacher the second day for more room for additional layers.

Oh, and the price on both is great for what you get.

[acostiga]

i've had an osprey pack for almost eight years, and have used it in many situations- even skied with it a few times. has held up very, very well and gets my highest recommendation. still plenty of cusioning in the straps, not one plastic buckle has broken/cracked. i remember the pack being pretty expensive when it was bought for me (when i was young and still on the family payroll) but has turned out to be a great investment.

not sure if it's still offered, but mine has a system of attachments on the back of the pack which lets me switch between a beavertail-esque attachment and an attachment that is basically a camelback. the bladder had to be replaced after i started using it for jagermeister instead of h20.

[FreakofSnow]

Originally posted by fez
Wookey does make some sweet packs.

Personally I don't like how they fit me. The shovel pack is just really weird feeling to wear.

I got one for my wife and she loves it. The only problem for her is that there are WAY too many straps and buckles for her. Its a pretty good day if she has them all done up right.

I hear ya on the straps, there are a lot of them. But personally, I have had to use them before, but a lot of the time you don't. What I don't understand is that is the usually the ONLY gripe people have. Well you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get them buckeled right? I guess I would rather have a couple extra for "emergency" situations, than be wishing that I had one that wasn't there.

On the way the shovel pack feels, the first time I wore it is was a bit different, sits way up high. But after a few days, it is super ergonomic and sits very nicely while riding up the chair.

# 1 like = the way it feels when you are skiing, you don't know its there.......there is absolutley no weight swing. # 2 = I bet i can get my skis on my pack and my ass in the bootpack quicker than you can ;)

[TomK]

I echo the Wookie Shovel Pack endorsement. A very nice fit and feel. The high ride does feel different and seems odd in the store, but on the slope it just dissapears. Skiing with or without the pack on doesn't need any adjustment in how you move (unlike a fanny pack).

Water hose comes out atop either shoulder strap.

The frame on the Wookies are molded sheets that conform to your back. Nothing digs in.

All the straps = no shifting of the load during a run. It's all cinched down firm so your balance is unaffected.

Shovel blade, handle & probe all store on the outside where you need them.


A-frame or diagonal carry? Wookies have a vertical carry that positions the skis/board far enough away from your back that you don't kick them with your heels.


Frames are what gives the pack structure instead of it just being a sack. For skiing, internal frames are pretty much all you'd want to look at (I shudder to think of skiing trees with an external frame) Some "frames" are jut plastic rods (stays) that keep the thing open. Wookie's frames are sheets of plastic molded to conform to your back, so no gapping or hot-spots.
Better pack-to-back fit means less shifting.

So far, I've been using mine for about 80 ski days and it still looks new.


General tip - when trying on packs in the store, have them load up 10 or 15 pounds. Dont buy based on how they feel empty.
Take your skiwear and move like you would on the slopes.
Check range of motion for the huge arm swings typical of wipeouts.

Hope that gives you enough info to try one out. Happy shopping.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Sounds good.

Right now i'm seriously considering the Dakine JMP. It seems like the right size pack for a good price.

What do you dakine owners think of the external shovel blade sleeve? In the pics on their website, the blade looks like it could slide out pretty easily, does this happen?

What is this 'suspension' you speak of? yes, i really am at this level in pack knowledge.

I also need to get a shovel. Is a polycarbonate blade as good as aluminum, or is it a buzzword for plastic?

Do D-grips make a huge difference?

[fez]

Originally posted by powpowpowderwheels
Sounds good.

Right now i'm seriously considering the Dakine JMP. It seems like the right size pack for a good price.

What do you dakine owners think of the external shovel blade sleeve? In the pics on their website, the blade looks like it could slide out pretty easily, does this happen?

yup. Also, handles sticking up tend to get stuck on things (lifts, tree branches, etc). I prefer my shovel in the pack, broken down.


What is this 'suspension' you speak of? yes, i really am at this level in pack knowledge.

fancy word for shoulder straps, waistbelt, sternum strap, any sort of padding or stiffner in the pack to help it keep its shape


I also need to get a shovel. Is a polycarbonate blade as good as aluminum, or is it a buzzword for plastic?

I'm of the opinion that in this case plastic is not such a good material for a shovel blade. I only use aluminum blade shovels. I'm sure someone will disagree with me, but try digging through a snowbank where the plow has pushed all the snow with a plastic shovel sometime and see what you think.


Do D-grips make a huge difference?

I have a D-grip shovel, but i wouldnt discount a T-grip shovel just on that reason alone. Now that i think about it, every shovel i've owned has been a D-grip, so i have no idea if they are better or not.

[powpowpowderwheels]

yup. Also, handles sticking up tend to get stuck on things (lifts, tree branches, etc). I prefer my shovel in the pack, broken down.


well yeah, but only the blade goes on the outside, the handle goes on the inside. i think.

it looks like nothing holds the blade down, aka if the pack were tilted upside down, which is certainly will be in my usage more times than i would like to admit, the blade would slide right out.

[fez]

If the pocket is designed to hold a shovel, it most likely has some sort of method to hold it in there. I have seen them fall out though.

About the handle thing:

Not everyone is smart enough to figure out on their own that having that handle sticking up is a bad idea. You will occaisionally see folks riding around like that.

Just making sure you werent one of them.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Originally posted by fez


Just making sure you werent one of them.

some people are very stupid.

[fez]

Hey pow^3derwheels,

i see from your location you are moving out to the bozone? sweet

Let me know when you get out here and I'll show you around bridger.

[Cornholio]

Originally posted by powpowpowderwheels
some people are very stupid.

I'm one of these people. I do it on purpose because I don't want to have to dig in my pack to get my shovel together, and neither do my BC partners.

A note on D-handles: I used to have a T-handle, but one day dug a snowcave with it. After about 20 minutes, my fingers hurt from the handle going between my middle and ring finger, and after the 1.5 hours it took to finish the hut, it was just miserable.

[Dr. Crash]

Does anybody have any experience with the Lowe Alpine Powder Peak or Storm Peak? I'm looking at these (probably the Storm which is not the snow-specific one but has a nice multifunction external shover flap, instead of a zipped pocket) as well as the Switch. They're 40 l which may be too big for lift-accessed BC. There's the 25 l Switch if 40 l is too big, since I plan on lift-accessed BC or day tours, no overnight for now. But I wouldn't mind a bigger pack that packs small as needed.

drC

[powpowpowderwheels]

Originally posted by powpowpowderwheels
some people are very stupid.

yes corn, like me.

ignorance is wonderful isn't it?

[homerjay]

Originally posted by fez
the ultimate lift access hike to bc pack

even on sale

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/eccStoreFront/stp/product_images/82483/F_82483_1.jpg

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/product.asp?base_no=82483

I use one of these guys for resort and lift access bc, and have a dana spire for longer adventures.

I like the dana, bomber pack, but mostly im a tall guy and dana lets you choose the size shoulder straps you have. Keeps me from getting strangled by my sternum strap.

fez- where do you put the shovel blade on the boundary pack?

[fez]

Originally posted by homerjay
fez- where do you put the shovel blade on the boundary pack?

in the boundary pack

about all that fits in the boudary pack is shovel broken down, probe and a sandwich.

when i first got my Dana pack, i kept the shovel in the pocket on the outside. until i heard a noise behind me on the lift and looked back to see my shovel blade sliding down the hill without me. The blade has lived inside my pack ever since.

[Yossarian]

pack off for the lift ride...

[fez]

Only in BC, because they make me.

since i ski bridger mostly i ski with a pack every day. I find i have fewer problems with the pack if i just leave it on rather than dick around with it every time i get on or off a lift.

Pisses me off in BC when they make me take my pack off. after asking a patroller why, i was told that it was because pack straps can get caught on the lift. Yeah, if you're a moron. The only time my pack has ever gotten caught on a lift is when the damn waist belt got caught on a double at Red. Thing would have been buckled up and on my back if the pricks had let me leave it on.

A couple years ago Big Sky tried to start a no packs on during lift rides after someone fell off the lift while wearing a pack. That didnt last long.

Though i must admit, a Riblet chair feels downright roomy without a pack on! :D

[cmor]

*meekly raises hand as a dumbass whos gotten his pack stuck on the lift.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Alright, I'm stuck between the

Dakine JMP
http://dakine.com/images/xlg/8100670_xlg.jpg

and the Dakine Pro II
http://dakine.com/images/xlg/8100580_xlg.jpg


Are there any opinions on these packs? Both are about 24L/1450cu in.

[Plakespear]

I had the same dilemma- ended up going with the JMP because it was cheaper, and I liked the goggle compartment.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Originally posted by Plakespear
I had the same dilemma- ended up going with the JMP because it was cheaper, and I liked the goggle compartment.

What do you think about the lack of compression straps?

any other specific likes/gripes?
and is there any strap or anything on the JMP that would prevent the shovel blade from sliding out if you turned the pack upside down?

this is gonna last me awhile, so wanna make the right choice

[fez]

ive never used either of the packs, but if i had to choose, id go with the second one. i like having a flap over the top of my pack to keep crap out of it. I also like having compression straps to stabilize the load.

when i use my big pack riding chairs, i let my shovel, probe, and water bag ride low then compress everything else up near the top of the bag to decrease the pucker factor of riding small chairs without bars.

either pack looks like it would hold your shovel in with the straps at the top of the pocket. Most likely they will ride over the 'shoulders' of the blade to keep it in.

Maybe try and find a store near you and show up with all your gear and see what fits in?

[powpowpowderwheels]

Originally posted by fez

Maybe try and find a store near you and show up with all your gear and see what fits in?

yeah, i wouldn't have so many questions if i could see these packs, but i live near chicago right now so there are not too many ski-specific packs around. Stuck with looking at pictures on the internet right now.

[char]

What about the Osprey Ceres 38? I took a look at it today, seem to fit well with 15-20#'s in it. Seems it would make a great day-hiking pack as well.
http://mirror.altrec.com/images/shop/photos/OSP/16218_l.jpg?2

Shovel pocket, A-Frame carry (good? bad?), gear loops on the hipbelt, 2300 cu in., bladder pocket, $139.

Edit- Actually on sale a few places on the internet for $125

[seldon]

JONG question, but what is preferable: A-frame or diagonal or parallel? Or is it all just personal preference?

[Foggy_Goggles]

Originally posted by seldon
JONG question, but what is preferable: A-frame or diagonal or parallel? Or is it all just personal preference?

note: this is when I wisht the Powder archives were around.

It' really personal preference. All have there advantages in different situations. I use diangonal 80% of the time and vertical 10% in slots and sideway's 10% of the time in the one place where it's an overhanging traverse. If you're doing laps or ridges or quick ski area rally moves, diag is the move.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Originally posted by char
What about the Osprey Ceres 38? I took a look at it today, seem to fit well with 15-20#'s in it. Seems it would make a great day-hiking pack as well.


Shovel pocket, A-Frame carry (good? bad?), gear loops on the hipbelt, 2300 cu in., bladder pocket, $139.

Edit- Actually on sale a few places on the internet for $125

i don't need a pack that big. just looking into the 1400 cu in range.

[char]

The beauty of the pack is that you can compress it down ALOT, go check it out in the store. It's pretty sweet.

Near Empty:
http://www.ospreypacks.com/SJ-Oline.jpg

Full:

http://www.ospreypacks.com/SJFull-Oline.jpg

But if it's too big it's too big.

[Dr. Crash]

Char, are you sure that the Ceres has the same straight jacket compression as the Eclipse that you did show?

If looking at the Ceres, look at the Switch 25+5. A bit less big (and the next size up is big, it's a 40 l) but dedicated to skiing and accomodating both A-frame and diagonal carries.

drC

[char]

Yeah, similar idea, not as pronounced on the Ceres but I had it sucked down in the store so that it looked like the "near empty" pic.

The compression flaps on the Eclipse are made of foam as far as I can tell. Heavier too.

[powpowpowderwheels]

Char- this may be of interest.

Ceres 38 for $105. Looks like a cool pack, and i think i know a store around here that has them, will check it out.

http://www.snowleopard.biz/slms/dept.asp?s%5Fid=0&dept%5Fid=3633

anything you didn't like?

[ulty_guy]

whatever it's called now (ceres?) i've got that osprey pack. earlier, simpler version from 6 years ago. i've beaten the shit out of it, and it still works great. the straightjacket thing is a dream, and also a nice place to put the skis when you're just going on a short hike.

[ulty_guy]

that pack in andermatt last year. anyways, the great thing is that you can do anything from lift laps to an overnighter and you'll never have crap bouncing around.

http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic15949.jpg

[char]

Originally posted by powpowpowderwheels
Char- this may be of interest.

Ceres 38 for $105. Looks like a cool pack, and i think i know a store around here that has them, will check it out.

http://www.snowleopard.biz/slms/dept.asp?s%5Fid=0&dept%5Fid=3633

anything you didn't like?

If you aren't into lots of straps it probably isn't for you. Price is a little steep but I haven't bought a daypack in about 8 years. I'm 5 10 and I had the Medium on. The $105 price is good but it is for the small. I'm into subdued colors when I'm outdoors, I don't like the orange color, but thats at the bottom of the consideration list.

From what I can tell Osprey makes bomber gear.

[G]

Originally posted by seldon
JONG question, but what is preferable: A-frame or diagonal or parallel? Or is it all just personal preference?

I've used a frame and diagonal, but I don't think I've even seen parallel. what is that?

[CantDog]

Skis together straight up the middle. Diagonal rotated 45 degrees CW.

I'm getting a Switch 40 and may want to switch to the 25, so if anyone has a 25 and wants to exchange let me know

[mildbill.]

get the life-link boundary pack if you're jsut doing it for day trips and close in bc.

everyone i know in real life (i.e. not on the internet) has had horrible durability problems with da kine packs. they are swill in my experience.

the boundary pack is sweet. it is more stable than even my poacher was (edit: let alone the heli pro), more simple, more durable than da kine packs. and not as small as freakofsnow was saying. i've had liek shovel and probe, 1 ice tool, 2 water bottles, down sweater, spikes, skins, extra gloves and goggles in there, plus jacket on the back, and it carried my skis better than the poacher EVER did, regardless of how full/not full the poacher was.

wiht the last poacher that blew up on me, since i had already bought the life link i figured i'd go for a $15 upgrade to the guide pack, which has to be the WORST pack i have ever seen--it's made of super flimsy materia like the crappy back-2-school special backpacks you get for $14.99 at marshalls in september, with an overbuilt suspension system and 10 compression straps holding the stupid 3lb beavertail on there, so that in the end it weighs like 10lbs. the only thing i use it for is as an overnight/travel bag. what a peice of junk.

only drawback on the boundary is only 1 ice axe/shovel handle loop.

buy that pack instead of the da kine, be glad you won't be sending it back or asking yoru moms to sew the shoulder strap back on after 15 days of touring.

[coffeekurt]

I have a Wookey Phoenix pack but lost the expedition waist belt and was wondering if you can help me?
thanks
Kurt

[VTsession]

any reconmendations for a eastern ski pack? Just big enough to hold skis (of course), an extra layer, extra gloves, multi tool, food, flask, etc? No need for a shovel, probe, beacon.

[Fuorilegge]

I prefer the Mammut Freeride 28 for inbounds and sidecountry.

If I am going deep, then I sport the Black Diamond Anarchist.

[skiingsamurai]

coffeekurt: plus 10 for doing a search on an already extensivly talked about topic, rather than starting a new thread



any reconmendations for a eastern ski pack? Just big enough to hold skis (of course), an extra layer, extra gloves, multi tool, food, flask, etc? No need for a shovel, probe, beacon.

ive got a dakine heli pro, 3 seasons now and love it, big enough for what I want, small enough so its not pushing me off the lift when at a resort