Mud tactics?

[watersnowdirt]

This part of the season in Northern California is one of the funnest times to ride. Trails are in fantastic shape - all packed down, no dust. The weather can be great - not too cold, not too hot.

Yesterday's ride at SKeggs was just fantastic - so fun, so fast, so NEEDED.

Right now, we've had quite a bit of rain over the last couple of weeks, so while most of the trails are just the way you'd want them to be, there are some significant mud patches to navigate. I"m having a bit of trouble figuring out exactly how to handle them.

Puddles dont present a problem - I feel fine bombing through them if I can't get around them at whatever speed - granted I come out looking like I've been mud wrestling - but it doesn't affect my ride at all.

It's the big, gloppy, rutted, soft sections that I'm struggling with. If I'm climbing, I just push through and deal with my tires going every direction. But if I'm bombing down a fire road, or going at a decent clip down single track, I start to look at those sections with great apprehension, since my tendency is to put on the brakes and then I start to wash out. I've tried just riding through, knowing I shouldn't be braking, but I still go every direction.

Ideas? strategies? tactics?

[scoober]

I treat fast mud sections the same way I do sand pits. I get some momentum going (a few extra pedal strokes before the pit), then shift my weight back off my saddle to weight the rear wheel, yet keeping a somewhat upright body position.

The idea is to really weight the rear wheel so it tracks through the mud (or sand) and the front wheel is just up there for a bit of stability. All the steering is done by shifting your weight side to side on the rear wheel. The right feeling if I can even describe it is that you are almost floating through the sand or mud, almost surfing it a little bit. It's kind of funky, and takes a little practice and some confidence in the speed. The speed is really important in the mud because it will slow you down a lot faster than sand. At least if you bail, you have a soft landing in either medium.

Of course, this is only really works if you need to just go straight through the mud section, no hairpin turns here.

[White Chocolate]

if you are pedalling through the mud, make sure you are in the middle ring. bigger gears equal less slip. Also, just accept the fact that your bike IS going to go all over the place, and enjoy the squirelly-ness. remember, it probably wont hurt if you fall :biggrin:

also, you can read this page for a few more tips:

http://www.galbraithmt.com/reports/mystic_mud.htm

[watersnowdirt]

This is great - thank you. I'm on my way to go test some of this out. I'll report back.

Scoober reference hairpin turns. That's also a question for me - how to handle muddy turns.

The weather in the Bay Area is insane right now. Unbelievably beautiful. I"m off to Skeggs and will relish the mud :).

Post ride edit: liked that advice - felt much more stable weighting the back than being more centered. felt like the movement of the front wheel was at least manageable as opposed to everything going everywhere.

Now...to figure out how to manage muddy turns....

oh, and never ever ride without a clif bar or something. I had the world's worst blood sugar crash (after having gone on a decent hike in the morning and moving what felt like a ton of flagstone early afternoon and eating only a quesadilla for lunch). the last little climb at Skeggs nearly made me weep. When we got back to the car, I ate nearly a whole bag of M&Ms and chased it with skittles (thank god Scott travels with candy...) and thereby replaced the blood sugar crash with a sugar hangover. :)

[Beaver]

Scoob's got the mud technique.
For muddy turns get your weight a little more forward than described by scoob but not as far forward as normal riding position, use your back brake and let your back tire slide out, turn into the skid, release the brake when you are pointed about where you want to be pointed and pedal out of it or coast out in the weight back position.

[fondigley]

Get a set of mud tires. Only do that if you ride plenty of mud which would make it worth it or if you are not comfortable on the tires you have. I rock a mud tire on the front of my bike, mainly cause I am too lazy to change it and I don't ride too much xc anymore. But when I lived in West Virginia mud was constantly getting in the way. I plan to change my tires to work better in Colorado, but I still plan to have some knobs on there.

I find the key to almost every riding condition is to just crank the hell out of the bike, but you kinda need to know what you are doing, cause some cranks are needed more in certain sections. I have done tons of mud riding in the past 8 years including 2 24hour of Snowshoe races where the mud was super thick and the rear wheel wouldn't even turn. I know cranking helps, but you need to know when to exhaust yourself.

I did a ride yesterday where the mud was giving many people problems, I just sat down, picked a grannygear and cranked. There was plenty of slip and slide, but that is what it is all about.

I love and miss the mud.

[Arty50]

there are some significant mud patches to navigate. I"m having a bit of trouble figuring out exactly how to handle them.

I'm sure you could get some local advice from the ladies down on Broadway. I'd assume they have lots of experience with "mud tactics." Paging Punani...

Here's another question. I haven't had to ride in it too much, but does the same advice apply to corn? I'm talking about snow btw. :D You always hit some in the early season at higher elevations, and somehow I think it will be more of an issue this year.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

When I see a mud patch coming at high speed...I just take a head first digger in that swamp ass on purpose. It's much better to flail in there on purpose then suffer the embarrassment and surprise of thinking you're gonna make it only to have it catch you off guard and throw your ass. YMMV.

[Arty50]

When I see a mud patch coming at high speed...I just take a head first digger in that swamp ass on purpose. It's much better to flail in there on purpose then suffer the embarrassment and surprise of thinking you're gonna make it only to have it catch you off guard and throw your ass. YMMV.

I will say this, there's no better feeling in the world than taking a shower or jumping in the river (say in Downieville) after you've taken a nice mudbath.

[bagtagley]

My suggestion, spend a summer riding in WV.

http://www.iplayoutside.com/images/Events/2001/07/2631/pic-0119.jpg

[altagirl]

I'm sure you could get some local advice from the ladies down on Broadway. I'd assume they have lots of experience with "mud tactics." Paging Punani...

Here's another question. I haven't had to ride in it too much, but does the same advice apply to corn? I'm talking about snow btw. :D You always hit some in the early season at higher elevations, and somehow I think it will be more of an issue this year.

I honestly have no suggestions on how to ride in snow, but last year at DV, there was one patch left - everyone else had been going around it and this kid in front of me tried to ride over a 3 foot high patch of snow at speed - front tire sank into it instead of rolling on top of it like he apparently thought it would and he endoed headfirst into the snow in quite spectacular form. Under the lift, of course. So don't do that.

[watersnowdirt]

bag - that's a nice pic. I have to admit, when I do get out in the mud and puddles, I'm like a little kid that likes to get as dirty as possible.

Good advice all - especially Shoe's :).

more turn talk! I'm going to try Beaver's technique. any others? I'm still apprehensive about muddy switchbacks at Skeggs and how to manage them (on the descent). Seems like an all bets are off sort of situation at that point.

[bagtagley]

I'd say check your speed earlier than normal. If it's a downhill grade into the turn, I like to do sort of an ABS technique, where I get a handful of brakes then let go, in an attempt to gauge the slickness. Try to center your weight over the bike, rather than leaning into the turns. Beaver's got it right about putting some weight up front. You have to try to think about what the bike is going to do in certain situations. You know if you get back and lean the bike over, the front tire will unweight and slide out. So, try and avoid this. Also, don't be afraid to put your inside foot out. This will allow you to weight the front tire, and slide the rear end a bit.


Also, the only way to learn is to keep trying. Wrecking in mud is an inevitability.

[fondigley]

You could also get used to riding on a set of rollers to work on balance, cause that is what it takes to get you through.

And Bag is right, grab some brake on the decent to test the surface, I didn't even realize I didn't talk about the DH. Balance is key, cause mud is like ice, you just slide and depending on your balance, you usually bust your ass.

I looked at pictures from that race in WV, but mine don't compare to Bag's, he was fucking muddy. And if I remember correctly he was just coming off a broken colar bone. Props for that in those slick conditions.

[Arty50]

I honestly have no suggestions on how to ride in snow, but last year at DV, there was one patch left - everyone else had been going around it and this kid in front of me tried to ride over a 3 foot high patch of snow at speed - front tire sank into it instead of rolling on top of it like he apparently thought it would and he endoed headfirst into the snow in quite spectacular form. Under the lift, of course. So don't do that.

I just remembered, I know how to ride on snow...

First you straightline into it...
http://homepage.mac.com/arty50/.Pictures/mtbsnow/120-2080_IMG.JPG

Just before you hit the corn you think to yourself "What the hell am I doing?!?!"
http://homepage.mac.com/arty50/.Pictures/mtbsnow/120-2083_IMG.JPG

Which seconds later elicits a "Holy shit, I'm gonna make it!" feeling.
http://homepage.mac.com/arty50/.Pictures/mtbsnow/120-2086_IMG.JPG

And culminates in a dilusional adrenaline rush in which you spray about being a mountain biking GOD!!!! :D
http://homepage.mac.com/arty50/.Pictures/mtbsnow/120-2087_IMG.JPG

[lph]

i think you are right Arty, we are gonna get lots of practice riding on snow this summer.

one piece of advice i got was to do a mini manual right before you hit the snow, plant the front tire into the snow and pressure it as you roll through it.

tried it a couple times last year and it certainly worked better than jamming on the brakes out of fear and then rolling into the snow too slowly, spinning out and getting your feet all wet.