Joining the party

[Kellie]

I'm retired from skiing groomers . . . nothing like the joys of a strained/torn MCL to spice up a road trip to Jackson!

Not sure how extensive the damage is, but suffice it to say my knee is super swollen and ROM is severely compromised . . . the ACL looks like it's intact, but the MCL definitely has some "give" . . .

So, MCL survivors, please feel free to post your advice here (or I suppose I could search for it) . . .

[slim]

BUMMER!

I partially tore my MCL in college. I bought a really good brace, did a lot of rehab, and that was basically it. It healed itself and it never bothered me again. I tore it on the first day of a weeklong ski trip and after icing, resting, and getting a brace; I skied the last two days of the trip.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'm retired from skiing groomers . . . nothing like the joys of a strained/torn MCL to spice up a road trip to Jackson!

Not sure how extensive the damage is, but suffice it to say my knee is super swollen and ROM is severely compromised . . . the ACL looks like it's intact, but the MCL definitely has some "give" . . .

So, MCL survivors, please feel free to post your advice here (or I suppose I could search for it) . . .

KELLLIE!!! ARRGGHHH!! This is one party over here that we definitely don't want you joining.

Well, I'm an MCL survivor too. I rested it for about 4-5 weeks, biked a lot, and it was good to go. Been fine ever since (this was 2 years ago). Ortho had me do lots of wall squats too. I think I started doing those a week or so after I hurt it. Milage may vary of course.....

But get better damn it! May is approaching....:)

[Arnold Babar]

MCL will heal up. Mine was severely torn, and I had to wear an immobilizer brace for six weeks, which sucked hard, but it healed up, of course I still had no acl, and am in the process of rehabbing that, so I will have no conclusive results until I heal this f........................ing thing up. :mad: It is taking too damn long. Sorry to see you in here K.

[Telenater]

Bummer....

I just finished three weeks off of skis for a minor MCL sprain (no tears just noticeable laxity in the MCL). Three weeks to let it heal, then getting back into some training to rebuild a little strength and I'm skiing gingerly again.

Sound's like youre way worse off than I was. Hope that it works out for you quickly and easily.

[Arno]

Yours sounds worse than mine (although mine showed up in an MRI scan 10 weeks later) but I couldn't really walk for a couple of days but was skiing reasonably interesting stuff about 4 or 5 days after the injury. Did a week of touring after that - the uphill seemed very good for it.

[Vinman]

"some give" = grade 2 MCL sprain.

Initially basic R.I.C.E. after 3 -4 days begin some heat treatments, hot tub, bath tub, moist hot packs etc.... 20 min at a time. Work ROM within painfree limits. Keep you quad strong doing strait leg raises and the short arc extensions as pain and ROM permit. After you have most of you ROM back move to stationary bike and general leg strength exercises.

4-6 weeks and it will be good to go. May think about an MCL brace for inital return to sports. Might be able to ski easy stuff (groomers) after 3-4 weeks with a brace on.

[jimmy page]

Kellie that sucks. Heal up quick.

[The Reverend Floater]

Yo Kellie,

FWIW: I partially tore my MCL about 4.5 years ago in a mountain bike explosion that subsequently blew a frame like a pop can. No surgery was necessary and after about 6 weeks of PT, I was back to normal. It gets a little sore on occasion but overall, it's nothing like blowing the ACL from what I gather. Heal up!

[Nohillsnearby]

"some give" = grade 2 MCL sprain.

Initially basic R.I.C.E. after 3 -4 days begin some heat treatments, hot tub, bath tub, moist hot packs etc.... 20 min at a time. Work ROM within painfree limits. Keep you quad strong doing strait leg raises and the short arc extensions as pain and ROM permit. After you have most of you ROM back move to stationary bike and general leg strength exercises.

4-6 weeks and it will be good to go. May think about an MCL brace for inital return to sports. Might be able to ski easy stuff (groomers) after 3-4 weeks with a brace on.

What he ^ said. Although the healing time can be up to 8-12 weeks. At least it was for me. I still have stiffness and soreness occasionally and it was Nov.6 that i did mine.

I was skiing at 6 weeks, though :biggrin:

[Kellie]

Thanks for the perspectives . . . I have been icing and taking vitamin I, as well as keeping it pretty immobilized with a brace (that makes people in Jackson buy you beer :biggrin: ). It feels better everyday, but if I straighten my leg and take a step, it tends to buckle . . . I'm hoping to see an ortho this week and get some better info and a good brace!

But it's puking rain in the bay area and I'm supposed to have this week off to be enjoying Tahoe fluffiness . . . so needless to say I'm a bit bummed . . . :( It seems wrong to be praying for sunny skies in February . . .

[girlski0912]

Thanks for the perspectives . . . I have been icing and taking vitamin I, as well as keeping it pretty immobilized with a brace (that makes people in Jackson buy you beer :biggrin: ). It feels better everyday, but if I straighten my leg and take a step, it tends to buckle . . . I'm hoping to see an ortho this week and get some better info and a good brace!

But it's puking rain in the bay area and I'm supposed to have this week off to be enjoying Tahoe fluffiness . . . so needless to say I'm a bit bummed . . . :( It seems wrong to be praying for sunny skies in February . . .

Shit! Heal up quick Kellie! :smile: I too partially tore my MCL, along with everything else and a hairline fracture on my tib plateau. I was on crutches for 4 weeks, but was able to ride the stationary bike and swim and it has healed just fine. Good luck!!!

[truth]

But it's puking rain in the bay area and I'm supposed to have this week off to be enjoying Tahoe fluffiness . . . so needless to say I'm a bit bummed . . . :(
Keep yer chin up and don't stop smiling.

[splat]

Prolo therapy NOW, Kellie. You'll be good as new in two weeks. Promise.
Plus, I'd like to see someone other than me rave about the results here for everyone else. Call me if you want the docs name in Reno who does it.
He just put Kreitler back on track and totally blew Kent's mind.

[altachic]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!! I heard about this from Cornholio, wishing it wasn't anything bad.

Best of luck with the rehab...you'll be back and you'll be strong!!

[freshie247]

Hey Kellie,

I can totally relate;I just got off the IR after 5+ weeks. Today was my first ski day since I tore a calf muscle & sprained my Achilles.

Get Better Soon!

[runethechamp]

That sucks to get injured like that. Get well soon.

[gincognito]

Update? You hittin' the beaches of Mexico this weekend to recover?

SaAaH (and vibey),
d.

[Kellie]

Guess I'm "glad" I let the swelling down and saw an ortho . . . unfortunately it's my ACL that's gone - appears that the MCL is just peachy.

This royally sucks.

No beach this weekend, but I am going to go drink wine in Napa - maybe I will do so heavily.

[gincognito]

Noooo! That does royally sucks. So sorry to hear that. I guess the only positive is that you get to join a club of really cool people (and me). A wealth of knowledge on this board and no doubt you will come back stronger than ever.

Try to keep the smile going - hit the alcohol if need be :wink: .

Sick and ashamed and happy (and http://www.geocities.com/thinksnow47/skiog5.htm if you're really bored),
d.

[Telenater]

Damn.... That really sucks.

Too many down.

So, have you made your decision on how to deal with surgery/recovery? Doing it now or waiting till summer?

Regardless, I can't imagine anyone likely to hit the rehab harder (except maybe TS).

[slim]

That is terrible news. So many of the Tahoe crew this year. Heal up and stay positive.

[Arty50]

Damnit! I'm blowing you a big hug right now.

[divegirl]

wow, Kellie, That really SUCKS!! I'm so sorry to hear this. You had some awesome turns in JH, though, before the news. Keep the head up and definitely hit the wineries this weekend. Hey, Lego and I will be hitting up Sonoma wineries, hobo-style (the drink and run method), so maybe we'll catch ya. Here's to a quick recovery. :smile:

[Mrs Roo]

Bloody hell, Kellie!! You did worry me a little when you said that your knee had given way a couple of times but this is highly crap news. Damn groomers. I'm sure I can't say anything to make you feel better at the moment but just make sure you get a good specialist and rehab, rehab, rehab!

Hugs coming your way from across the pond.

Mrs R xx

[Huckwheat]

Guess I'm "glad" I let the swelling down and saw an ortho . . . unfortunately it's my ACL that's gone - appears that the MCL is just peachy.



I am really sorry to hear this news, I just sent a massive PM on the subject.

So, how about surgery on Apr 1, in Tahoe? We can pull up side by side couches and Britney can feed us bon-bons. Maybe we can get a two for one deal????

On the positive side, at least the MCL is fine. Hopefully, every EXCEPT the ACL is good. It is supposed to be pretty straight forward surgery/recovery if it is a lone ACL.

[Kellie]

I am really sorry to hear this news, I just sent a massive PM on the subject.

So, how about surgery on Apr 1, in Tahoe? We can pull up side by side couches and Britney can feed us bon-bons. Maybe we can get a two for one deal????

On the positive side, at least the MCL is fine. Hopefully, every EXCEPT the ACL is good. It is supposed to be pretty straight forward surgery/recovery if it is a lone ACL.

Sign me up for bon-bon eating!!!! Britney to the rescue!!! At the very least we can be recovery buddies :-) I am thinking I would like to have my surgery in that timeframe as well.

I see another ortho on Tuesday - hopefully get more info and a surgery date that happens sooner than 5 months down the road (which is the estimate the first doc gave me)! Maybe I should make Orr my doctor and have him do mine right after yours! ;)

[Huckwheat]

Maybe I should make Orr my doctor and have him do mine right after yours! ;)

Oooh, maybe we would get ligaments from the same donor! That would be quite a bond we would share.

[The Suit]

I see another ortho on Tuesday - hopefully get more info and a surgery date that happens sooner than 5 months down the road (which is the estimate the first doc gave me)! Maybe I should make Orr my doctor and have him do mine right after yours! ;)Come back to Jackson - our docs are pretty quick (and well practiced) at repairing knees.

Sorry I didn't meet you until you had a freshly-blown knee. I'm bummed it's worse than you thought. Good luck and be inspired by all the other knee-recovered maggots!

[fineline]

aaah, im so sorry!! I had the same thing, I thought it was my mcl too- the swelling made it so it felt like my acl was fine, it gave out a few times too which is one of the main reasons I went in for an MRI. So when are you gettin it done? I am 15 days post ACL op... things are starting to pick up a bit now, atleast I can get around okay on crutches. Keep spirits high and keep that leg strong. Best of luck to ya.

[Kellie]

Just got the MRI read - severe bone bruising (that the ortho said I can't ski on, regardless of the status of my ligaments), and a fully ruptured ACL - right in the middle of it. Minimal (if any) meniscus damage and the MCL is intact, so that's a bonus!

Surgery scheduled for 3/17 in WA . . . trying to decide what graft to get and considering delaying to get the allograft. Thoughts?!?!?

[LAN]

Kellie, who'd you finally decide to go with?

I say go with the autograft and not the allograft. Although the docs will tell you differently, throw all kinds of statistics your way, the allograft is still someone else's tissue and has the potential for rejection or failure. If it were me, I'd much rather have my own hammy or patellar tendon working for me.

[Kellie]

LAN, which did Scoober get?

For PT, is the recovery still expected to be 6 months?

[Vinman]

For PT, is the recovery still expected to be 6 months?

Standard rehab time is around the 6 month mark for back to full go for activity. It varies with some and can be a bit longer, but you should be right on target for ski season.

[LAN]

Scoober had the patellar tendon graft. He was pedaling on the stationary bike 2 weeks after surgery. Now, at 4 months out, he's out on his mountain bike again.

I think your recovery and your activity restrictions completely depend on the surgeon. Dr. Morris and the PT folks wanted him walking, doing exercises and riding the stationary bike as soon as possible. As he progressed, the PT gave him the OK to get back on the road bike and the mountain bike.

[Kellie]

Surgery this Thursday - getting nervous! Any PNW-ers who want to take a trip to Bellingham (or live there!) are more than welcome to come entertain me!!!

It's so hard to think of surgery when everything feels "almost fine" - I rode my MTB all weekend and LOVED it! I am so sad to lose this, even for a short time.

Oh well, let the adventure begin . . .

[gincognito]

I'll be sending you vibes all week. Be well.

Sick and ashamed and happy (and what graft did you decide on?),
d.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Surgery this Thursday - getting nervous! Any PNW-ers who want to take a trip to Bellingham (or live there!) are more than welcome to come entertain me!!!

It's so hard to think of surgery when everything feels "almost fine" - I rode my MTB all weekend and LOVED it! I am so sad to lose this, even for a short time.

Oh well, let the adventure begin . . .

Hey! Check your emails! I hope I sent them to the correct one...got some stuff to fax to you...

Also, dropped some books in the mail for you.....oh crap, hopefully you will get them before you take off for WA :redface:

[truth]

Surgery this Thursday - getting nervous!

Oh well, let the adventure begin . . .

Best of luck Kellie...see ya on the other side.

[Kellie]

well, 2 days post-op . . . got the surgery on Thursday and was in femoral block bliss until early Friday morning . . .

today is much better and I have my first pt appt on Monday - I haven't done much to move it yet, but may try today cuz it's a lot less painful . . .

let the healing begin!!!! :biggrin:

[altagirl]

Glad to hear you're doing well! In addition to moving your knee a little right now - do a bunch of calf pumps and ankle rotations - it helps get the blood flowing and get the swelling down.

Have fun at PT!

[Kellie]

Hit my first PT today - it was painful but I got to within 5 degrees of full extension, even though I was super stiff when I got there. They also gave me a good set of excercises that I can actually do (not ready for full straight leg raises yet, etc.) and helped me understand how much pain is okay.

Afterward though, my body went into shock - chills, nausea, dizziness - it was terrible! They said it's normal cuz the shock of messing with your knee drives your body crazy.

If anyone has recommendations on how to avoid this, I'd love them.

Other than generally eating healthy (and the PT said that this week I should eat a lot, even if I'm not active), are there any particular foods that people recommend?

Thanks a ton!
Kellie

[altagirl]

Hit my first PT today - it was painful but I got to within 5 degrees of full extension, even though I was super stiff when I got there. They also gave me a good set of excercises that I can actually do (not ready for full straight leg raises yet, etc.) and helped me understand how much pain is okay.

Afterward though, my body went into shock - chills, nausea, dizziness - it was terrible! They said it's normal cuz the shock of messing with your knee drives your body crazy.

If anyone has recommendations on how to avoid this, I'd love them.

Other than generally eating healthy (and the PT said that this week I should eat a lot, even if I'm not active), are there any particular foods that people recommend?

Thanks a ton!
Kellie

I made sure I ate frequent balanced meals - not very big, just made sure I was eating every few hours. Personally when I'm just eating comfort food and sitting on the sofa, I need to pay attention or I don't get enough protein. And your body is rebuilding, so I figure that you need that protein or your atrophy will end up even worse. So I did a lot of chicken soup, protein smoothies with blueberries, etc.... stuff that I could make quickly but are good for my body.

As far as PT misery goes... I didn't use pain pills much other than during/after PT. And I'd just come home from PT, prop my leg up and rest. It'll start feeling better soon.

[xboat]

kellie - i had my first PT 2 days after surgery and felt exaclty like you did. hadn't eaten much at all during that time. went in there feeling like crap. dizzy, light headed, thought i was going to pass out. you'll be feeling better every day, hang in there. i wish i could give you good advice on food but my eating habits need a ton of work.

honestly, i think the single thing that really helped me with those first couple weeks was putting an exercise bike in my living room. my brother gave me this cheap ass airdyne thing that doesn't even have much resistance at all (worthless now). just sitting on that thing and rocking the pedals back and forth slowly to get a good stretch seemed to do me good. then i would lay down on the floor and prop my leg HIGH up on a wall. the main thing that i would do different after looking back would be to elevate more and more often that first week after surgery.

btw, you never said what graft you went with? good luck!

[Kellie]

I went with the PT graft. I pretty much had my leg raised consistently for the first 6 days (unless I was up to go to the bathroom!) per Altagirl's suggestions. Now I am sitting with it outstretched to take some load off my back and to help with extension.

I am still waiting for some crazy bruising to diminish - the PT said it's from the iodine migrating down my leg . . . did you guys experience this too? How long did this take for you guys to disappear?

Thanks for all the insight - it really helps!

[Vinman]

Kellie, don't worry about the bruising. That is normal and it may last for some time. I have seen bruising left over for months after a surgery (mine included). if will go away and there is nothing that you need to worry about, but to disagree with your PT its not related to the iodine. It is just blood from all of the cutting, drilling and screwing done inside your knee.

Keep working on the extension. It is one of the first things that you need to accomplish. Once you have full extension and the doc lets you off the crutches you can the be able to walk without a limp.

[xboat]

i had some pretty crazy looking (to me) bruising, also. but at PT they said "don't show that to any other ACL'ers around here, that's nothing. looks great." i think by the end of the 3rd week it was all gone.

one thing that i had trouble with that i haven't said anything about, was the tightness that i would get sometimes when bending my knee in the patellar tendon area. the patella wasn't tracking right and would start out really tight and i could actually feel the kneecap slide over into the right groove while bending. sometimes it would pop loud and fall into place. freaky feeling for sure. i don't seem to remember that problem with my first ACL surgery. it had me pretty pissed for a few weeks and PT kept telling me to work through it. well i'm a little over 9 weeks and i can finally say that it is almost all worked out. i'm feeling stronger by the day and have started to hit some golf balls last week.

again, good luck!

[Kellie]

Just over 3 weeks out . . . flexion is good, and I am still working on maintaining full extension . . . I can get there with prone knee hangs, etc. but can't keep it naturally. I am sooooo ready to stop limping!

I came back to CA and to work this week, which was downright exhausting, but put in some good evenings at the gym which felt great . . . I love how good the knee feels right after you get through moving it a lot!

I also went to my first PT appt. in CA and it was TERRIBLE (15 minutes long - just measured my flexion/extension with no warmup, and then moved my joints a bit and sent me on my way)!!!! I unfortuneatly have an HMO insurance company who puts little value on PT - their metric/goal is to get patients out in 4 visits or less and get them to "own" their own injury. It also takes about 2 weeks to get an appointment. I am all about doing rehab on my own, but I also feel like this is an injury that needs some guidance to make good progress that will set me up for a lifetime of activity.

So, in fighting with the insurance company, it looks like I have an appt. next week and can hopefully have one/week after that. But, I have little confidence in their expertise and feel like I want a clearer picture of what to expect as I progress, and what are the things I should make sure I get at PT, because I can't do them on my own (i.e. e-stim, etc.).

Also, I'd love perspective on whether once/week is enough . . . I am kind of stressed out about it because my paradigm (largely developed on this board) is that PT early and hard really pays off. I don't want to push things too early or too hard, but I do want to heal to the point that I can be enjoying some activity and re-discovering my almost nonexistant quad. And, more importantly, I want to come back from this injury 100% - I will hate myself forever if I can't heal it well.

Thanks for the insight!
Kellie

[Vinman]

[QUOTE=Kellie
Also, I'd love perspective on whether once/week is enough . . . [/QUOTE]

A once a week PT visit is OK and by OK I mean not as good as 2-3x/week. However. If you are comfortable with the exercises they have given you and are consistent in doing them, 1x a week can be good enough to basically go in have them give you new stuff and do some extra stuff as well as monitor your progress. With that being said you should be doing something for your knee everyday as i'm sure you are.

[Kellie]

I'm on the bike 20-30 minutes 1-2 times/day, as well as lots of leg raises (ad/abduction, stomach, and straight), at least 30 minutes (in 10 min. increments) of prone knee hangs, as well as some closed-chain weights (i.e. leg presses) and yoga once/week. I am trying to motivate for some pool time, but haven't been able to force myself yet . . .

I am going to try for 2x/week, but I may have to take what I can get . . .

[truth]

12 days out here and totally jealous. Watch your back cuz I'm gunning for you. :biggrin:

[Kellie]

Feel free to pass me - this is one game I'll be happy to see my friends do well in!

Keep on keepin' on!

[freshie247]

Stiff upper lip ol gal,you're gonna make it.I'm coming up on a month of limping ,I can relate!

Today it felt like I didn't have to limp,but I couldn't stop limping anyway!I must retrain my body!

[Kellie]

Just over 4 weeks out . . . went on my first outdoor bike ride on Saturday and have hit the pool a couple of times for some pulling and light swimming. It sure does feel good to be outside!!! I am freaked out about just about everything, and have been working at not working the left leg too much. I am amazed at how tired my body gets though - I was WORKED after my ride. But I suppose that's part of the game.

I can get full extension more regularly now, though I can't keep it, and still have a limp. Flexion is good - good enough to ride a bike with no cheating, so I am not pushing it.

The big headache and stress is that my insurance doesn't seem to value PT - I have been to 2 appts. since being back in CA and neither has involved therapy. It's so frustrating and totallly robs me of any mental energy. So, I guess I'm just gonna "buck up" and pay out of pocket, because it seems worth it.

Anyhow, just another sleepless night, so I thought I'd update - I am going to get worked tomorrow at work with minimal shuteye . . . should be fun. :frown:

[basom]

i hear your frustrations kellie. try and keep the head up. i think getting the PT situation settled will help.

is it that your theropist would give you treatment (stim, massage, ultrasound, ect.) but your insurance doesn't specificly cover those treatments? or is it that your theropist doesn't recomend treatment?

[skifishbum]

PT's are pretty much like any profesion. Some of em really care and enjoy what they do, and others just show up go through the motions and collect their paychecks. My better 1/2 is the former rather than the latter. Dealing with comp fakers and hyprocondracs wears on her, but people who want to get back to their favorite athletic endevours make her day.We have a portable Tens/stim unit. About the size of an old school walkman. Will ask her for info when she gets off work tonight. Feel free to ask any other rehab questions and I will get her to answer. I am a herbal self medicator and it works for me, but may not be your cup of tea. Rehab hard and get well soon. Insurance companies "suck large cow balls" as we like to say in the roofing bidness anyway, but thats another rant.

[Kellie]

is it that your theropist would give you treatment (stim, massage, ultrasound, ect.) but your insurance doesn't specificly cover those treatments? or is it that your theropist doesn't recomend treatment?

It's the latter - My HMO is overwhelmingly passive. I have a standard copay, regardless of treatment, but they don't seem to see the point in any rehab beyond going to a gym and doing excercises. But even then, they don't take the time to show you the excercises, make sure you're on the right track, etc. In my experience, they don't treat the patient - they make sure they get you out the door.

I am so over this entire experience. Somebody please tell me that when it's all over, you get to find yourself again.

[basom]

kellie, when its all over, you get to find yourself again. i promise.

remember that phone conversation we had, a week or two before your surgery, when i told you how large an impact it would have on you, and your daily life, how it could consume you and change you? i think you thought i was insane, crazy talking. i think now you can see what i was trying to explain.

there will come a time, down the road, maybe in six months, maybe in five, maybe in nine, when your mind will no longer be consumed by all of this.

i will say about your theropists lack of treatment, it doesn't seem right. but, one of the doctors on my team (the guy who helped me manage my PT, got me in with my theropist, was a resource for PT related questions) while in favor of treatment and specific excericises to re gain your leg tone, he also said it was not necessary. aparently if you are in good enough shape, and have extension, and do some minmal progession with leg wieghts and the like, you should be fine. it just takes a much longer time to get back to your sport. he didn't recomend this for me, as i was trying to get back in a certain amount of time, my goal was being on snow as soon as possible. His candid opinion was that sometimes these guys (PT's) pushed too hard, and end up not having your best intrest in mind (get em in, get em out kinda attitude). he really only thinks it compleately necessary (PT) for people with no motivation to work on it themselves. i wanted the support, and an agressive schedual, and my doc was able to pair me with an amazing theropist who really went the extra mile with me who my doc was comfortable with and works with almost exclusively. so i was lucky.

what i'm struggling to say is that even if you never get treatment, and let your knee do its thing, working slowly and diliberatley, it should come back. eventually. obviously you want to get this the fuck over with and should be on an agressive schedual, but there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel which ever schedual you are on.

*continued luck to you in this process kellie*

[altagirl]

It's the latter - My HMO is overwhelmingly passive. I have a standard copay, regardless of treatment, but they don't seem to see the point in any rehab beyond going to a gym and doing excercises. But even then, they don't take the time to show you the excercises, make sure you're on the right track, etc. In my experience, they don't treat the patient - they make sure they get you out the door.

I am so over this entire experience. Somebody please tell me that when it's all over, you get to find yourself again.

You do! It gets better, I promise!

But you need to find a different PT. Don't pay for that crap. I know it's common for appointments to be short, but you at least need to be getting something out of it. We're so lucky to have a great PT office right by our house - where the therapists care so much that I've had many multi-hour appointments and I can stop in and ask questions without an appointment (and with no charge) whenever I need anything. It's a small place, and I think that helps a LOT - maybe that's what you need to look for. Less office management types pushing for them to hurry up and get you out. If you lived out here I'd bring you over and make sure they took care of you! :(

[truth]

Damn K...bummer. You really need to get a new PT. Don't settle for anything less than what you want. who have you talked to regarding your coverage? HR? The actual insurance agency, the larger insurance company? There has to be an advocate you have not contacted yet that can get you on the right path. Squeakey wheels get the oil so start making some noise.

[Mtn Man]

Gotta admit that this thread is helping me through too. I felt bad when I saw you at the Powder to the People thing at the Moose. I'm about to schedule the surgery, been doing pre op PT for about 2.5 weeks now and getting 8deg extension and 113deg flexion, with extreme pain in the process. Diagnosed with almost the same scenario except for added small meniscus tear. Totally ruptured ACL, bone bruise and slight fracture on the tibia plateau, strained hammies and MCL from the hyperextension and edema in the knee and leg.

Looks like I'm leaning towards the patellar tendon graft too. One ortho told me to go for it and one told me that I don't need surgery, talk about confused. But after extensive research on the web, talking to people about previous surgeries and lack there of, I'm almost convinced that I need to get this done and now.

Keep up with the PT, I think it helps a lot. I've got a good one, but it's on the opposite coast of you, doh! Good luck and keep pluggin! Thanks again for the updates!

B)

[Kellie]

Thanks for the positive outlook on things . . . it really does help.

Today finally has become a better day - my knee is super sore and swollen from 20 minutes at a spin class yesterday . . . I hope it's just a temporary setback and that things are okay. I feel like it's almost better just to stay totally off the thing - although swimming and biking feel good for the head, I am always scared for the knee.

Mtn Man, best of luck with the surgery, etc. Sounds like you're pretty well setup with the process toward getting better and you should be just in time for the season :D Keep us posted on your progress :)

[truth]

Thanks for the positive outlook on things . . . it really does help.

Today finally has become a better day - my knee is super sore and swollen from 20 minutes at a spin class yesterday . . . I hope it's just a temporary setback and that things are okay. I feel like it's almost better just to stay totally off the thing - although swimming and biking feel good for the head, their effects on the knee are downright scary.

Mtn Man, best of luck with the surgery, etc. Sounds like you're pretty well setup with the process toward getting better and you should be just in time for the season :D Keep us posted on your progress :)


I think you're pushing too hard K. I can't believe some of the things you're able to do. Seriously, be patient and take baby steps. Keep the end goal in focus and have faith that you will get there, just not all at once. Allow your body to work it's healing magic.

[gincognito]

Patience and strength (and the odd tantrum) get us through these trials. If you believe in trans-continental conveyance of vibes, consider a healthy dose of each sent your way. :)

Sick and ashamed and happy (and you will find your way home (http://www.geocities.com/thinksnow47/skiog5.htm) ),
d.

[Mtn Man]

Sick and ashamed and happy (and you will find your way home (http://www.geocities.com/thinksnow47/skiog5.htm) ),
d.


Excellent write up. Thanks for sharing that. I've already learned that I truly despise crutches and they haven't even cut me yet :eek:

B)

[gincognito]

Excellent write up. Thanks for sharing that.

Thanks for getting through it.

Sick and ashamed and happy (and wish I had more of my writings during that time saved),
d.

[truth]

Did you ever get any love from pig tails?

[Kellie]

No PT yet. I have an appt. on Wedensday a.m., but that may fall through now as well. This is the headache that never ends. I am hoping it works out though, cuz I feel like my progress really isn't that good and, in the absence of "coaching" am probably not doing nearly enough for the knee. I was reading back over what TS and AG were doing at this point, and am extremely jealous! It's been about a month now since real PT.

Oh well, I suppose. Until then, it's intermittent spinning and light swimming/pulling with a couple hundred leg lifts in between . . .

[truth]

It's been about a month now since real PT.



FWIW, I can tell you what I'm looking at in PT.

Step ups: With the affected leg step up onto a 4" ledge and go for full extension via quad flexion then control the negative and repeat.

Slide press: Kinda like a "Total Gym" in that you are laying down with little or no resistance and basically doing a leg press. Use both legs.

Leg raises in 3 positions lying down with increasing weight attached at the knee.

Bike: I'm still working on the full forward rotation. Got the backwards so it should not be much longer.

Quad flexes...so lame.

Leg hangs...even more lame.

Stretching the hammys and calfs...I'm so tight post op it's scary.

That's really all I've got going, but that should change here soon. There is talk of mini squats and some other nonsense starting wed. I know you're further along than I am and will add to this as new fun is added to my regiment.

[gincognito]

Did you ever get any love from pig tails?

Assuming that was directed at me, let's just say we helped each other get through the season.

SaAaH (and that is that),
d.

[Huckwheat]

Let me give my report from my Sat PT (Three weeks, post allograft). And Kellie, she told me that Patellar Tendon can get stretched if you push too fast, BUT allograft is much more fragile. She said in 15 years, she has only seen 1 ACL get stretched....and that was an Allograft and the guy was driving an stick and just barely avoided an accident (but stretched his new ligament).
----What have other PT graftees heard about the risk of stretching that graft (in the first couple months).

PT Report:
-lots of 1 legged balancing: balance boards, the disc things, etc. Doing slight dips while balancing.
-The sled thing (could do on a leg press). 2 legged, 1 legged, and with a ball under my foot (makes the balance a lot tougher).
-walking around with bent knees (the Groucho walk), both forwards and backwards.
-Standing on a 4 inch box with the bad leg and lowering the other heal to the ground.
-Just got approved to get on an exercise bike. I did a few rotations last night, but definately not RIDING, per say.

Hang in there Kel....hope you get some PT figured out soon.
---For the record though, when I asked my Doc about PT he said, "Oh, do you want to go to PT....we can just give you exercises to do at home." I thought it was very odd, but they just didnt seem to concerned with it. Their moto to me was, "take it easy, take it easy, take it easy". (but I am an Allografter).

[Kellie]

I went to PT today!!!!

And it was great. We didn't do much, but it was nice to have a real assessment of where I'm at . . . I'm doing well as it turns out, and was glad to hear that things are on track (or ahead). I have some new activities, but even better a new focus, and some direction.

Until I can get benefits figured out, I'm on the once/week plan, but I'll take what I can get!

Wahoo!!!!

[gincognito]

:yourock:

SaAaH (and keepin' it short (and real)),
d.

[Huckwheat]

Nice Kellie....I am sure that is a reassuring feeling. I am glad they gave you a good report. :)

Personally I think once a week is plenty. My benefits cover more, but I am sticking with my Sat visit only. We really all know enough to get it done by ourselves.....the PT really just gives assurance and some fun new exercises.

So, when do we get to have a Tour D' Gimp? I am starting my exercise bike this week, and hoping to hit the road a week from Sat.

[Kellie]

Tour de Gimp? Sometime in the middle of May - you two should come down and visit summer. It's quite a nice season :)

Plus, there is certainly nothing that is actually flat in Tahoe . . .

[Zeedashbo]

i'm kinda disappointed in 'gimp central' here. where's the gnar?!?

really though, i've found that finding a good pt is a pain. and honestly, you can do 99.9% of your therapy on your own. i just e-mail my therapist (who is the shiznit), get some workouts, and hit the gym. i get a better workout and don't have to pay out the booty to do stretches and leg workouts.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I went to PT today!!!!

And it was great. We didn't do much, but it was nice to have a real assessment of where I'm at . . . I'm doing well as it turns out, and was glad to hear that things are on track (or ahead). I have some new activities, but even better a new focus, and some direction.

Until I can get benefits figured out, I'm on the once/week plan, but I'll take what I can get!

Wahoo!!!!

This is great news. Psyched for ya K.

[truth]

Personally I think once a week is plenty. My benefits cover more, but I am sticking with my Sat visit only. We really all know enough to get it done by ourselves.....the PT really just gives assurance and some fun new exercises.
.

Hmm...I can see that once full ROM is established, but for me right now having my leg manipuilted and being pushed is the only way to get through the discomfort of the last few degrees of extension. It's truly painful and totally uncomfortable. I'm pretty masochistic when it comes to training and I have my doubts about being able to really get at this as hard as I need to alone right now. Plus, it's nice to have a room full of (mostly ACL's) peeps on your path to motivate you.

[truth]

i'm kinda disappointed in 'gimp central' here. where's the gnar?!?




http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/Photo_040405_004.jpg

You're just reading the wrong threads.

[basom]

congrats kellie!

i'm not sure how i would have done if i didn't get addicted to that awsome stim machine! turn it up till you scream and pulse out http://www.tetongravity.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[Kellie]

FINALLY able to walk without at limp! Working on getting some muscle tone, and looking forward to seeing the doc in a week . . . hoping for an expanded array of acceptable activities :D

For the rest of you: when did you get clearance to go use your muscles? i.e. when is okay to start adding resistance on a bike, and having your limits be strength, not worrying about the graft. I know we always worry about the graft, but I am guessing there comes a point where it's stabilized enough to make it okay for muscle fatigue. I am also sure this varies A LOT by doctor and PT, but I'd be interested in your experiences!

[basom]

here is the progession as outlined by my doctor. my program was slightly different, as my PT liked to switch up excercises to keep me interested and motivated. but we worked from this outline (my doc and PT work together to come up with the right program for each patient, but this is the basic one they hand you when you leave post-op, so you know what you are getting yourself into)

i left out the stuff for surgery - 6 weeks.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5499&stc=1

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5500&stc=1

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5501&stc=1

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5502&stc=1

[basom]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5504&stc=1

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5505&stc=1

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5506&stc=1

[truth]

The graft is at it's weakest around week 6. It has lost the stregnth it had as the PT and is just recovering the vascular connections to regenerate as the new ACL. I have been warned that this will be occuring at the very time you begin to feel strong in the quads and want to start to push harder. Use caution Kellie. I doubt resistance in a controled manner can harm the graft, but risking an odd torque or twist seems the real concern.

[Mtn Man]

Congrats Kellie on no limpin'! I can't wait to get to that point, I still have to take stairs with the same leg each time.

Thanks for posting the workout Basom! I've got a lot of post op work cut out for me. Just got a first look at what the PT place is charging my health coverage.....184 a visit, JEEBUS! :eek: That's actually what they pay the PT place, Healthsouth actually tries to charge me 279.

Word to the wise, if you're unemployed, keep those Cobra payments up! Otherwise, stay off the hill unless you're a trusty :tongue:

B)

[Kellie]

I just had my 7-week post-op visit with the doc . . . and he said the graft feels "solid as a rock" . . . 0/135 on extension/flexion, and good progress on muscle tone. Full clearance for swimming, and likely clearance to start running at the 3 month mark (after my next visit). Okay to progress with resistance on the bike.

So, it looks like things are on track. It feels better and walking is less of an issue. Ice is my best friend, and I am continually amazed by how good the knee feels after icing!

It sure does feel good when the doc is happy with his work, though. Music to my ears :D

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I just had my 7-week post-op visit with the doc . . . and he said the graft feels "solid as a rock" . . . 0/135 on extension/flexion, and good progress on muscle tone. Full clearance for swimming, and likely clearance to start running at the 3 month mark (after my next visit). Okay to progress with resistance on the bike.

So, it looks like things are on track. It feels better and walking is less of an issue. Ice is my best friend, and I am continually amazed by how good the knee feels after icing!

It sure does feel good when the doc is happy with his work, though. Music to my ears :D

Saaawwweeeeettt! :)

[truth]

Very cool K.

[Arty50]

Awesome news!!!! Kick ass Kell!!!

[hop]

I won't tell anyone....anything.

[gincognito]

Go Kellie, go Kellie...

Sick and ashamed and happy (for your good news),
d.

[Kellie]

Perhaps an update - I got to 140ish this week and worked on balance and fine muscle control at PT. It was good, but hurt my patellar tendon area, and it stayed sore for the rest of the day. I have a flaring up of swelling in the past couple of days, that I am watching - taking it easy for a bit longer. Hoping that it clears :)

I am starting to go incredibly stir crazy however (starting?). I am hoping my knee calms down so I can get outside for some mellow biking and fresh air. 9 weeks post op . . .

[tibaher]

a lot of folks say that this is the toughest part of recovery...
when you start to feel "normal" again and your muscles and/or new ligaments and their accutruated attachments haven't really fully healed enough to handle a tweak or a twist. It's also (according to those same lot of folks) the most dangerous part of recovery as people tend to think they can push it before they really can do so safely.

heh

most folks...

Thanks for the update! and keep icing!!! :smile:

[Mtn Man]

Good to hear that you're getting around 140. Sounds like you're ready to hit the road bike soon. I'm still on my island this weekend, lots of CPM and Cold therapy. Are you doing stationary bike every day at home? Mine is ready and waiting when I'm cleared for it.

Good luck and you'll be outside soon!

B)

[Kellie]

I suppose I'll update . . .

I'm at 9.5 weeks and feeling a lot better. The swelling I had last week has gone back down and the knee looks and feels like it's progressing. Walking is still the thing that hurts the most - long distances are not my friend. It's crazy to think the doc said he'd clear me to run in 3 weeks - I can't imagine making that much progress by then! But, I'm in no hurry to run, so I may just hold off . . .

In other news, I bought a new road bike and am stoked to be out there and riding. I'm amazed at how tired I get, but it's nice to have the constraint be my muscles/heart/lungs and have the knee feel good. I am looking forward to many happy hours on the road, and will appreciate the wind on my face! I think it will be kind of wierd to really re-integrate excercise into my life, as I've become so accustomed to not "working out" regularly. It feels more natural to get up and drink coffee than it does to get up and get on a bike, but I am sure the better habits will come back to me quickly :biggrin:

I also realized it's been 3 months since I've been in the mountains. That is so wierd, since I really haven't gone over two weeks in about 3 years . . . but I also don't feel like I have a reason to go.

Anyhow, I'm at about 0/140 extension/flexion and have enough flexion to ride a bike without noticing, so I'm happy. My biggest challenge is in fine muscle control (i.e. slowly going down a stair - at some point my knee no longer controls and I absorb the step with my good leg - so wierd!).

[freshie247]

Keep up the good work Kellie!I'm past week 8 of my injury & I'm learning how to walk again.

[truth]

I suppose I'll update . . .
Anyhow, I'm at about 0/140 extension/flexion and have enough flexion to ride a bike without noticing, so I'm happy. My biggest challenge is in fine muscle control (i.e. slowly going down a stair - at some point my knee no longer controls and I absorb the step with my good leg - so wierd!).


Do they have you doing any step work in PT? I have these drills I'm doing both for stepping up and lowering down off various height wooded boxes. You could easily do em at home so if ya want details PM me. I've found my ability to go down steps to be rapidly improving, now I'm to the point where I can go down without using a handrail and with only minor gimpiness.

[Kellie]

Yeah, we do stepups and downs at PT, and I can do steps sans handrail and with gimpiness that goes largely unnoticed, but I can feel it, and that's what matters. I think this is one of the patience things . . . just takes getting the muscles around it, I think. But then again, what do I know?!? ;)

[truth]

Agreed, it's funny cuz at home we have only 5 steps so I was not really getting much practice. Then 2 weeks ago I start going to the gym again and there's a very large flight of stairs that I have to use to get to the cardio gear. It's prolly 40 steps. In the last 2 weeks my ROM and stair climbing / decending has gone from climbing up one at a time to being able to descend sans railing with only a minor gimp at the bottm of each step. It seems to me that it's a quad weakness and perhaps some PT inflamation that just needs time. Focusing on controlling the descent seems to be forcing me to work at it / notice it.

Don't be so damn hard on yourself...it's a 6 month process.

[Kellie]

I'm not being too hard on myself, but notice steps as the most obvious area that I need to improve. Just like I was soooo glad the first time I straightened my leg, I will be overwhelmed with happiness when I can walk down steps and do so controlled and as slow as I want to . . . it's all a process :)

In the meantime, the new roadie (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30219) and I went on a date yesterday, and it was GREAT! It felt so good to have my heart rate up, the air on my face, and to see the beautiful bay at the end of the day. I am looking forward to many hours on that bike, and a bloodstream chock full of endorphins!

[Huckwheat]

Hey Kellie,
That is SWEET that you got the bike....the one we were talking about? WOW.

Sounds like things are improving. I feel like everytime I get to add a little something I get closer to normal. It is all baby steps but it is fun to add new things....and funny how tired something like a 30 minute flat road ride can make you.

I am trying to relish the new chill attitude I have been adopting. I (like you) have been know at times in the past for being a full addict (exercise that is). There is something to be said for being able to appreciate a day of true relaxing too. Hopefully when we both are 100% and able to do whatever, we will be able to find a happy medium (not sloth, but not obsessive compulsive either :wink: ).

The hardest thing for me has been I have actually had to start watching my diet.....when you dont run/bike 5 days a week, you cannot eat like a pig anymore. That could be a positive thing too.....those habits were going to catch up to me eventually.

[britney]

...I also realized it's been 3 months since I've been in the mountains. That is so wierd, since I really haven't gone over two weeks in about 3 years . . . but I also don't feel like I have a reason to go.


um, hello! :rolleyes:

britney + huckwheat = chopped liver, i guess! :p

3 day wknd approaches! you have new road bike! hwy 89 is totally dry! we have an extra bedroom at huckwheat's this weekend with Kellie's name on it. tentatively hosting a BBQ at huckwheat's saturday or sunday (date not certain - but fun guaranteed!)

and if you happen to have a spare "old" road bike now, throw that in the truck, too!! :biggrin:

you are doing awesome, and i am psyched that you had a good first date w/new roadie!
-b

[Kellie]

You may actually have read my mind Miss Britney! Tahoe trip this weekend may be in the works . . . details to follow!

Britney + Huckwheat = filet mignon + lobster (but I'm on a diet, so I can't indulge!)

[britney]

:yourock: :D :yourock:

[Kellie]

11 weeks post-op and things are looking up - I am feeling a lot better and have thankfully recovered some of my energy. I've had a few great rides on the road - I can certainly use some improvement in the fitness/speed department, but I am happy that I can at least complete my favorite rides - the best part is the incredible endorphin high I've been getting afterwards . . . super fun! ROM is good, and the game seems to be one of slowly building the muscles up and waiting for the graft to continue improving in strength. Twas hard to be in Tahoe last weekend and see how much snow is still there, but whatever. There are many sports to indulge oneself in (skiing just happens to be the coolest :biggrin: ) . . .

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 weeks post-op and things are looking up - I am feeling a lot better and have thankfully recovered some of my energy. I've had a few great rides on the road - I can certainly use some improvement in the fitness/speed department, but I am happy that I can at least complete my favorite rides - the best part is the incredible endorphin high I've been getting afterwards . . . super fun! ROM is good, and the game seems to be one of slowly building the muscles up and waiting for the graft to continue improving in strength. Twas hard to be in Tahoe last weekend and see how much snow is still there, but whatever. There are many sports to indulge oneself in (skiing just happens to be the coolest :biggrin: ) . . .

FKNA.

Great to hear.

[Mtn Man]

11 weeks post-op and things are looking up - I am feeling a lot better and have thankfully recovered some of my energy. I've had a few great rides on the road - I can certainly use some improvement in the fitness/speed department, but I am happy that I can at least complete my favorite rides - the best part is the incredible endorphin high I've been getting afterwards . . . super fun! ROM is good, and the game seems to be one of slowly building the muscles up and waiting for the graft to continue improving in strength. Twas hard to be in Tahoe last weekend and see how much snow is still there, but whatever. There are many sports to indulge oneself in (skiing just happens to be the coolest :biggrin: ) . . .


That's great news! I can't wait to get back on the bike again. It was tough seeing all of my friends hiking the only swath of snow left at Killington this past weekend. But I know that I'll be joining them come November.

Keep up the good work and updates!

B)

[Kellie]

Well, I think 3 months is one of the patience milestones I had in my head, so I am glad to be here - I am feeling pretty good, and have been pretty active . . . although trying to go back to my former workout schedule is absolutely zapping my energy (shocker, eh?!?).

My knee feels okay - it is a bit stiff in the a.m. and I seem to have some resistance in the patellar region when I want to bend it (after a few times, this goes away). I do have some pretty significant kneeling pain, and this gets annoying in yoga and some other random life things, but is generally manageable. I also have a hard time not compensating with my good leg - I have to consciously use my left so if I forget to concentrate, my right leg gets super tired! Oh well, I suppose this is just part of the game.

Activity-wise, I have been on the roadie and am working on re-integrating my rides into my work-week . . . although they make me exceedingly tired, which has admittedly stolen some of the joys of road riding, and killed a bit of motivation. I've been spinning in the gym a fair bit, so that should help, I hope. :) I am loving yoga and trying to figure out how to swim correctly . . . and entertaining myself with some gym climbing and beginner whitewater paddling in my spare time :cool: I continue to be amazed by how energy-zapped I get, but I am hoping that as fitness comes back, so to will my energy.

Overall though, it's great to be out there enjoying fresh air and being able to regain fitness and hang out with active friends :cool:

[Vinman]

Great Kell, and you were nervous............HA.the Am stiffness is likely from some left over swelling and or swelling for your workouts. Make sure to ice after workouts still and see how it goes. Chance are the swelling will go away on its own. # mo is really not all that long yet.

Keep working hard you sound like you are doing great.

[Black Market]

ouch that hurt........

[Kellie]

Saw the doc for the last time until ski season . . .

The report was good - graft is solid, he's happy with my progress, etc.

XC mountain biking is okay "soon" - so I guess it's up to my discretion . . .

Windsurfing okay, just don't leave the knee open to twisting by using foot-holds (disclaimer: I am not a windsurfer, but you never know . . .)

Brace - not so much. He says the knee should have less give than a brace, so there's no point

Running: go for it! (slowly and on a track . . .). To be honest, however, I have NO desire to run.


I had a few good road rides in WA over the weekend and an extreme 4-mile hike . . . I was SO SLOW on the downhill, it was almost funny. Uphill=no problem, downhill=comically cautious. I rode horses on the beach yesterday -who knew that was so high impact on your knees - my knee was fine, but I had honestly never imagined how rough it could be :cool:

Back to the grindstone today, but hoping to get some good strengthening workouts in this week! :)

[Mtn Man]

Sounds like you're on your way to a healthy start to the upcoming season! I could care less when I get the ok for running, I just want to go hiking and mtn biking right now. Never was much for running except when it's after a ball (soccer, tennis, pick up football games, etc). I get bored rather quickly just running a straight line. I don't have to worry about the wind surfing though, never tried and now is not a good time to start. My mtn bike is calling me though, I had to kick it in the nuts yesterday just to shut it up.....

Anyhoo, good luck and let us know when you hit the mtn bike trail!

B)

[Arno]

Running: go for it! (slowly and on a track . . .). To be honest, however, I have NO desire to run.

Go on... give it a try. I was thinking I'd give up on running but nothing else gives you that spring
and nothing else brought home how unfit i'd got...

[Kellie]

and nothing else brought home how unfit i'd got...

Maybe I'm just not ready to accept that!

I will likely start running again, but I do feel like this is a bit soon and for now I'm quite happy on my bike. It might be nice to have a bit more muscle mass to stabilize my knee before pounding on it too. But we'll see - when I get in the mood to run, I'll prolly run. I do agree Arno that it's one of the best highs around!

[gincognito]

I do have some pretty significant kneeling pain, and this gets annoying in yoga and some other random life things,

It is a measure of the respect this board has for Kellie that no one pounced on that comment...

Sick and ashamed and happy (and, when I was in the best shape of my life, I would not have had the energy for all that you are doing),
d.

[Cornholio]

It is a measure of the fear this board has for Kellie that no one pounced on that comment...
:eek:
..........

[Kellie]

Not much new to report, beyond the continuation of the quest for fitness. I did get out on the track (finally) a few weeks ago and have been running about once/week, slowly building up. I like the confidence that it's given me to put the spring back in my step, and to practice taking impact. It definitely is uncomfortable to run, and my knee swells some, but I think it's a "safe" amount of pain, and the best way I've found to get the bad leg workin' . . .

Almost 4 months post-op . . .

[EPSkis]

Well - glad to know I've got such good company!

Finally got my MRI results back & met with an Ortho today.

Torn lateral miniscus (second time) & rather extensive early onset arthritis. (Apparently due to the FIRST surgery)

MRI didn't reveal the extent of the miniscal damage, so they won't know until they go in. Already had a sizeable piece removed, so they're concerned about what's left. Have about a 1/2" arthritis spur on the lateral side of my knee that's cone-shaped & sticking outwards / upwards. (which really hurts after a good workout.) Showing signs of arthritis as well on the back of the patella & 2 smaller spurs behind it.

Should be a fun remainder of the Summer. :rolleyes:

edit: Did verify that the ACL is intact, so I've got THAT goin' for me.

[Kellie]

Is the meniscus damage from the same Jackson trip I tore my ACL on? Here's to a successful surgery and speedy recovery! Anything they can do to help the arthritis? I don't know much about that side of things, but I know that you're more likely to develop it if you have knee surgery. :FIREdevil

[EPSkis]

Is the meniscus damage from the same Jackson trip I tore my ACL on? Here's to a successful surgery and speedy recovery! Anything they can do to help the arthritis? I don't know much about that side of things, but I know that you're more likely to develop it if you have knee surgery. :FIREdevil

Thanks, Kellie! :)

Heh - well, it certainly COULD have been. As you know, I was pretty racked up there, so it's kind of hard to tell, what with the elbow & back injuries I had too. :nonono2:

Truly, though - with the arthritis that's already there & the position of the larger spur, it's likely that yes - I probably did it at JH. Even though it's been getting progressively worse for years, the last few months have found me in some pretty serious pain, to the point of limiting ANY activity. (You're REALLY not supposed to cry after a round of golf - even WITH a lousy score.) That pain & swelling is probably LARGELY due to the arthritis & not necessarily the miniscus.

Not much has been said about the existing arthritis, other than they'll do what they can to clean it out, but ~ you're right. You're highly susceptible to instances of it once you've had surgery. I figure if the first one lasted almost 20 years, I ought to be able to get a few more good years out of it. Obviously, the down side of that is that later on in life, I'll be dealing with that pain on a daily basis. So I've got THAT to look forward to. :cussing:

Thanks, though ~ and glad you're back & doing so well! :wink:

[Kellie]

Well, I haven't been hanging out here as much these days . . . probably for the better :)

I'd say things are going pretty well. I am almost 5 months post-op and definitely feel like my strength and energy are much-improved. I am back on my mountain bike and was stoked to be a part of the Downieville maggot gathering as well as being able to greet Wednesday mornings with the dirt at Briones. It's been great to be out exploring NorCal trails and to re-integrate some adventure into my life. I had an unsettling balance-loss last week that resulted in having to put my left foot down pretty hard, but I was glad to feel the stability and strength - still need to be cautious, I know, but it's nice to have your leg there too. I have also started running and am taking it easy at about 4 miles max. I may start ramping it up though, as it's been feeling pretty darn good.

Overall, my knee still feels wierd and hurts at times . . . and I still ice pretty regularly cuz it feels good and I think it probably helps. I think most of the discomfort is related to having the PT graft, but I can't be sure as I have nothing to compare it to, thankfully!

I guess my biggest milestone recently was last weekend . . . I am proud to say I finished my first century! Yep, last Saturday was 105 miles and 6250' in Marin County and I've gotta tell you I loved it! I had no idea what to expect, or if I'd even be able to finish, but I figured, why not try . . . so I did. By some miracle, the fog lingered until about 11am, making the first 50 miles a surreal journey through Nicasio and some farmlands, over a big hill (that was shrouded in the fog, so you didn't have to know how big it was!) and into Tomales Bay and Hwy 1 . . . then out to Valley Forge, through some more farms and on to Petaluma (where it really got hot!). The last 30 miles were hot and largely uphill, but it was good to end with a struggle . . . nobody wants to get 100 miles "for free" do they?!? The funny part was the last 20 miles as I was getting so excited to finish. I was a wreck . . . almost on the verge of happy tears the whole time as I was thanking my body for being able to be injured and heal itself to the point of taking on a challenge and working through it with confidence and drive. I rode hard to the end and finished strong - regardless of speed or time, the real success was in the mental approach. It was not a ride of downshifting at the sight of a hill, but rather jumping out of the saddle and giving it my all. I don't really feel like I can do justice to how it felt here on the intraweb, but suffice it to say, I felt like myself again for the first time in a long time, and it's never felt so good!

So, to celebrate, I carried the rest of the weekend out in Kellie-style, thankfully feeling great enough on Sunday to take my mountain bike out and enjoy some more wonders of NorCal at Annadel State Park. Nonstop singletrack and Lake Ilssanjo for a lovely mid-ride swim made for a rad day, and an overall phenomenal weekend of appreciating the beauty and diversity of landscape that exists in the Bay Area . . . and of being thankful for the fitness that's returned and the ability to challenge myself :cool:

So, I feel like I still have a ways to go in order to be where I want to be - my left leg is still smaller than my right and doesn't have the responsiveness that I'd like, but I am getting there slowly and surely . . . and am hoping to be ready for that first snowfall :biggrin:

[gincognito]

Great news and very nicely expressed! I'm smiling wide for ya.

Sick and ashamed and happy (and :cool: ),
d.

[Mtn Man]

Wow, that was a great read! Extremely happy for you on this side of the divide :biggrin: . Although, I don't think I could do a century before I got hurt, so that isn't in my training program in the future.

Congrats and keep up the good work. Symmetry is in your near future!

B)

[bcrider]

It’s great to read about your progress Kellie!

Maybe if your pace has been slowed down a bit the rest of us will have a chance of keeping up with you now. :)

Ps. I’m on day 16 and feel waaay better than I did during that first and second week.

[Huckwheat]

Hey Kel.....that is a great read! Congrats on that enormous accomplishment. 6k of climbing.....that isnt a normal century! Wow.

The read was especially poinant to me because I had my own moment two weeks back (Jul 28). I finally felt like I didnt have to "go easy" on the knee and I tried a new challenge. I commuted home from work. That involved a 49 mile ride from Reno to Truckee with 5200 feet of climbing. I bonked in the last ten miles (while racing darness at 8:45) and nearly destroyed myself (ended up lying on the sidewalk in my 'hood, before getting up and stumbling to my house).......it felt great.

I like my fitness being the stopper.....not my knee pain.

Will call you soon...need to catch up.

BC....hang in there. At 3 months you will feel pretty good, and start to forget what being laid up was like. :) It will go quick.

[weibo]

Kellie, having been there for the crappy part I am so happy that you have made it to the good part. I wish I could have seen you hit mile 105. Keep it going.

[truth]

Nice Kellie!

[duboix]

I guess one more month and you could start skiing? Congratulations! I think I have to update my ACL thread ;)

[EPSkis]

Well - today's the day...Surgery at 3pm. Both excited to have this thing corrected, and nauseated at the thought of having the pain I went through the first time. Ugh.

I'll check back in when I'm coherent enough to do so. :eek:

[Alioops]

Well - today's the day...Surgery at 3pm. Both excited to have this thing corrected, and nauseated at the thought of having the pain I went through the first time. Ugh.

I'll check back in when I'm coherent enough to do so. :eek:


How are those vics and V&T's working for ya?

Take it easy and don't push it. :wink:

[EPSkis]

How are those vics and V&T's working for ya?

Take it easy and don't push it. :wink:

Ok, maybe that wasn't one of my better ideas. ;-)

Surgery went well ~ it was fascinating to wake up in the middle of it & watch the procedure on the Doc's monitor - the miniscus wasn't torn through as they thought it was (and I had an MRI *why?), but there was another piece removed between the lateral & medial. There were signs of previous ligament damage and he did trim away some of the tendon that had frayed.

The biggest issue was the arthritis, which the scope made very short work of. The arthritis growth between the top of my tib/fib and the bottom of my femur left VERY little space between the joint, which certainly explained the swelling and mobility issues. I would estimate that there was about 1/16" of arthritic growth on each side of the joint, which made a HUGE difference in the appearance of the joint after he'd cleaned it out. There was also quite a bit of debris in the joint which has likely been floating around in there for YEARS.

Doc came to talk to me during recovery & stressed to me that although this procedure should help a LOT ~ that it is only a temporary fix. The damage I'd done to my knee years ago, the previous surgery I'd had on it & the subsequent damage I've done to it since - WILL limit my skiing in the years to come. I've known this for some time, but hearing it from the guy that just "FIXED" my knee wasn't something I particularly enjoyed. There's but a small strip of miniscus left both on the outside of the lateral miniscus and between the lateral / medial miniscus, so there WILL be continued swelling and pain. It sounds like it's just a matter how much pain I'm willing to endure.

The knee itself is stable (which I'm grateful for), but the arthritis will come back, and will only lend to the further degeneration of what's LEFT of the miniscus - I'll discuss my PT and possible future options with him on Friday (9/2).

For now - just going to focus on enjoying it while I can, in as little pain as possible. I'll deal with the rest when I get there. :wink:

[Kellie]

Glad you made it through to the other side . . . keep us posted on your progress and enjoy the "time off" from life as much as you can ;)

Happy healing, and hopefully we can make some "new knee" turns next season!

[Kellie]

Wow, it's been awhile since I've been here . . . all the way to page 3! The evolution of the knee experience has certainly been an interesting one, but I had a cool day today and thought this would be the place to post about it. To make a long story short, when I had my surgery in Washington I did some interviews that landed me a job in Alaska . . . so after quitting my CA job, spending some time in Nepal/Thailand, and heading home for the holidays, I've relocated to the Anchorage area and started a new job. My schedule is 7 days on, 7 days off so I get to ski midweek . . . which is why I've been touring around Hatcher and Turnagain passes for the past 4 days. All I have to say is "thank you" to whoever let's skiing be this good. I finally am feeling like a skier again, feeling good on the uphill, loving every turn, and feeling like my favorite self. Who knows how long I get to keep this feeling, but suffice it to say, I'm savoring it for now. What a journey, and I'm sure it's not over . . . but damn I love to ski!

[divegirl]

Kellie-
I was reading this thread from the beginning - read page one - and I have to ask: what was your initial diagnosis? You said it was a strained/torn MCL - and the ACL appears intact. Was this your diagnosis from the doctors at the clinic at Jackson Hole after just a physical exam?

Yesterday I was diagnosed with a grade 1 MCL sprain at Squaw. When I first fell on the mountain, it was really painful and surprising - I heard something, but it wasn't a definite pop. (However, I thought for sure it was something worse that what the docs said). But then the knee started to feel slightly better right away. They did the ACL tests at the clinic, and said it appeared completely intact and just fine. Since I'm only experiencing pain on the inner part of my right knee, and I'm able to bend it slightly past 90 degrees with some pain, AND I'm able to stand on one foot well enough on the bad leg.....I'm thinking their diagnosis is correct. But your initial diagnosis sounds a tad similar to mine, only to find out your ACL was gone. So I'm concerned...

I think I'll do what you did and go to an ortho in the next week or so. Glad to hear you're doing well now! It sounds like your new job has the perfect schedule this time - and location!!
-L

[truth]

Congrats Kellie, can't wait til I can make that same post.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I finally am feeling like a skier again, feeling good on the uphill, loving every turn, and feeling like my favorite self. Who knows how long I get to keep this feeling, but suffice it to say, I'm savoring it for now. What a journey, and I'm sure it's not over . . . but damn I love to ski!

awesome...just so damn good to hear.

[Kellie]

Kellie-
I was reading this thread from the beginning - read page one - and I have to ask: what was your initial diagnosis? You said it was a strained/torn MCL - and the ACL appears intact. Was this your diagnosis from the doctors at the clinic at Jackson Hole after just a physical exam?

Yesterday I was diagnosed with a grade 1 MCL sprain at Squaw. When I first fell on the mountain, it was really painful and surprising - I heard something, but it wasn't a definite pop. (However, I thought for sure it was something worse that what the docs said). But then the knee started to feel slightly better right away. They did the ACL tests at the clinic, and said it appeared completely intact and just fine. Since I'm only experiencing pain on the inner part of my right knee, and I'm able to bend it slightly past 90 degrees with some pain, AND I'm able to stand on one foot well enough on the bad leg.....I'm thinking their diagnosis is correct. But your initial diagnosis sounds a tad similar to mine, only to find out your ACL was gone. So I'm concerned...

I think I'll do what you did and go to an ortho in the next week or so. Glad to hear you're doing well now! It sounds like your new job has the perfect schedule this time - and location!!
-L

L, sorry to hear about the injury . . .even if it is only an MCL it's still a bummer! As for my experience, they diagnosed it torn MCL in the ER in Jackson. My knee was super swollen and painful, and I wore a brace/immobilizer. It didn't feel unstable, per say, to walk on it, but did feel much more secure in the brace. I limped around for the week, not imagining my ACL was torn until I saw the ortho . . . the rest is history.

Here's hoping you don't have the same experience, but definitely get it checked out . . . I think that swelling and general trauma makes a torn ACL difficult to diagnose right away.