2x10 worth it?

[BraddA]

Last year was my first year riding. I picked up a lightly used 575 as an alternative to running due to injury. It's been great. My overall riding skills will obviously be something I'm working on for some time, however my fitness is solid. I ride Front Range trails with the occasional excursion to Buff., Monarch Pass, Fruita/Moab, Aspen, etc. I never use my smallest ring up front. Shopping around I've noticed an entire drivetrain overhaul is a bit...cost prohibitive. Am I going to gain much in the way of...anything, if I go 2x10? I don't plan on racing anytime soon, and don't lie awake at night worried about the weight of my bike, with its less than high end wheelset, etc. Would such an overhaul be more of an exercise in ego-stroking than anything else? I've also shopped lighter, stronger wheels, but they aren't exactly cheap either. I really don't feel the need to upgrade my entire bike just yet, though I can't help but feel that a nicely spec'd Mojo, SB, Nomad might be in my not-so-near future. Advice? Thanks in advance.

[Crampedon]

I have been on XX 2x10 since early 2010 and love it. The shifting, gear ratio and clean line of the crank is sweet. I run 24x32 with an 11-36 on the back.

You will need a whole drivetrain and shifters, so do it on a bike you will be on for a while. If it gets you excited abut riding do it!

[BraddA]

^^^ You run a shop out there? I didn't ride until I moved here, and I've got the water on the brain when I visit home, but I may have to give riding a try next time I'm out.

[Bean]

I'm on a 2x10 (26/38, 11-36) and I'm really happy with it. However, I'm seriously considering 1x10. I'd have to give up one or two of my lowest gear-equivalents, but the simplicity seems it'd be worth it.

[Roxtar]

Lose the front big ring, slap on a bash ring, reset your front derailleur stops and call it a day.
$20 2x9

[hick]

Lose the front big ring, slap on a bash ring, reset your front derailleur stops and call it a day.
$20 2x9

This for sure. Also, how in the hell are all these people going 1x9 or 1x10? I must be a fucking pussy, if I didn't have a granny gear, I wouldn't climb shit all around here (well, except for the the Shwagtail Divide).

[BraddA]

Lose the front big ring, slap on a bash ring, reset your front derailleur stops and call it a day.
$20 2x9

Wow. Nice, thanks, that's incredible.

[toast2266]

My last bike was 2x9. My new bike is 2x10. One more gear doesn't really matter. Unless you're buying all new stuff anyways, save money and stick with 2x9. Or don't change anything and stick with 3x9 - it's not like your smallest ring is going to self destruct if you don't use it.

[rainier]

Lose the front big ring, slap on a bash ring, reset your front derailleur stops and call it a day.
$20 2x9

And shorten your chain! One of the best things about running 2x9. Less chain slap.

For another $25 get a blackspire stinger or equivalent, and wrap your chainstays with bar tape. Boom nearly silent bike that won't ever drop the chain.

[Long Duck Dong]

I run a 2x10 (27/40, 11-36) and it has made me a faster rider. I found that I would allow myself to spin in granny on hills with a 22-34 gear when I really didn't need to. It helps that I got a SS first and learned how to stand and generally ride with a slower cadence/more power style.

All this said, I haven't done any extended endurance (5+ hours) yet with my new drivetrain, so I reserve the right to go crawling back to my triple crankset at some point.

[nickwm21]

This for sure. Also, how in the hell are all these people going 1x9 or 1x10? I must be a fucking pussy, if I didn't have a granny gear, I wouldn't climb shit all around here (well, except for the the Shwagtail Divide).

1x's are cake with a 28T or 30T. The guys that do it with a 34T are NUTS

On my previous bike I ran a 1x9 with a 28T and loved it. My new bike has a 2x10 but I will be converting it to 1x10 shortly. I originally switched to the 1x cause I smacked and bent my chainrings and it was a cheap fix.... Now I am just used to not using the front d.

[Skipig25]

roxtar has the right idea. 2x9 with bash/chain guide up front.

[Anospa]

1x10 for me, but much more doable here in MA where there's no real sustained climbing.

Going from 22/36 by 11-34 to 32 by 11-36 has made everything a whole lot easier for me. The 22 granny was way too small, and a few guys I ride with were already doing a single front ring so I figured I'd give it a shot. Its been great so far and I don't see a reason to go back unless I move somewhere with actual hills.

[phatfreeheeler]

After a year on a true (26/39) 2x10 setup I'm convinced the gearing is optimum for me, but it sure isn't life altering. Before I ran (24/36/bash) 2x9 and loved that too(pretty much same climbing gear but now I have more top end). However, without the bash I can't keep the chain on if I'm riding chunder or jump trails due to the rear D not keeping up with chain growth as the suspension compresses fast. I'm even running a 2x guide and that keeps it from falling down to the small ring, but can't do anything for the outside. I guess I just didn't know it was an issue with my 2x9 setups cause my bash always caught the chain from falling off the outside and the small ring caught it on the inside most of the time. Maybe the new clutched RD's solve this, but I won't know till later this year. In the short term, I'm probably switching to a crank that I can run a bash on ASAP which means I'm losing the true 2x10 gearing. Thinking of trying an XO with the special spider that keeps the 2x10 chainline but then the gears will be 24/38/bash.

IMHO - I would only change to 10 speed if you are tossing everything because of a new bike or it's all dead. sure a 36 tooth gear is nice in the back, but it's not revolutionary in any way. If it was 9-36 in the rear like Canfield is starting to put out that changes everything because then you just run a 28-30T chainring 1x10 system and have the best of both worlds. Hopefully that is the future.

[toast2266]

After a year on a true (26/39) 2x10 setup I'm convinced the gearing is optimum for me, but it sure isn't life altering. Before I ran (24/36/bash) 2x9 and loved that too(pretty much same climbing gear but now I have more top end). However, without the bash I can't keep the chain on if I'm riding chunder or jump trails due to the rear D not keeping up with chain growth as the suspension compresses fast. I'm even running a 2x guide and that keeps it from falling down to the small ring, but can't do anything for the outside. I guess I just didn't know it was an issue with my 2x9 setups cause my bash always caught the chain from falling off the outside and the small ring caught it on the inside most of the time. Maybe the new clutched RD's solve this, but I won't know till later this year. In the short term, I'm probably switching to a crank that I can run a bash on ASAP which means I'm losing the true 2x10 gearing. Thinking of trying an XO with the special spider that keeps the 2x10 chainline but then the gears will be 24/38/bash.


Aside from properly adjusting your derailleur, you just need an offset bash guard like this one (http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/13368-075_BLARR4-3-Parts-52-Chainrings/Bashguards/Blackspire-Big-Ring-Protector-Bashguard-offerIN212GLB.htm?utm_source=Googlebase&utm_medium=datafeed&utm_campaign=FTP&zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=30&zmap=075%20BLARR4). It just uses longer chainring bolts to essentially add a "third" ring to your setup. It's no different than people who used to run 3 rings plus a bash. The one in that link is sized for bigger rings, so you might have to search around for an appropriately sized one.

[cooltsi]

I'm running a 2 X9 setup as well with one of these

http://www.bbgbashguard.com/superlights.html

115067

You don't need longer chainring bolts with the thin bash. Lighter than a third ring. Not much of a true bash but it'll keep your Levi's out of the chainring.

[rludes025]

I'm running a 2 X9 setup as well with one of these

http://www.bbgbashguard.com/superlights.html

115067

You don't need longer chainring bolts with the thin bash. Lighter than a third ring. Not much of a true bash but it'll keep your Levi's out of the chainring.

You must struggle climbing with that setup. Ditching the chain does shed some weight though.

[phatfreeheeler]

Aside from properly adjusting your derailleur, you just need an offset bash guard like this one (http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/13368-075_BLARR4-3-Parts-52-Chainrings/Bashguards/Blackspire-Big-Ring-Protector-Bashguard-offerIN212GLB.htm?utm_source=Googlebase&utm_medium=datafeed&utm_campaign=FTP&zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=30&zmap=075%20BLARR4). It just uses longer chainring bolts to essentially add a "third" ring to your setup. It's no different than people who used to run 3 rings plus a bash. The one in that link is sized for bigger rings, so you might have to search around for an appropriately sized one.

Trust me, I know how to setup a derailleur and can you please show me the 120 BCD bash and the right custom bolts to fit XX cranks...if so, I'm so there ;)

I've actually thought of taking the time to CAD it up myself and send it to my machinist, but figured if it was that easy MRP, E-thirteen, Shimano, or SRAM would have already done the work.

[toast2266]

Trust me, I know how to setup a derailleur and can you please show me the 120 BCD bash and the right custom bolts to fit XX cranks...if so, I'm so there ;)

I've actually thought of taking the time to CAD it up myself and send it to my machinist, but figured if it was that easy MRP, E-thirteen, Shimano, or SRAM would have already done the work.

Well, something's not right if your chain is falling off all over the place...

Rather than CADing something up, just buy a larger chainring with the appropriate bcd, stick it on a lathe, and turn the teeth down off of it. It's pretty quick and easy.

[allTandA]

^^^that seems a savvy and cheap solution to me.

Toast- what whip did you settle on? FBird?

[stuckathuntermtn]

This for sure. Also, how in the hell are all these people going 1x9 or 1x10? I must be a fucking pussy, if I didn't have a granny gear, I wouldn't climb shit all around here (well, except for the the Shwagtail Divide).

You and me both man. Have no idea how people do it. And I'm a big-ish guy. Maybe that's why I can't. I gotta hall 185lbs (with water) up the hill. Some of the guys I ride with were talking about suspension, so weight came up, and I have 20lbs on them.
Shit, I'd go 1X10 with a fucking 24T if I could. lol.

[phatfreeheeler]

Well, something's not right if your chain is falling off all over the place...

Rather than CADing something up, just buy a larger chainring with the appropriate bcd, stick it on a lathe, and turn the teeth down off of it. It's pretty quick and easy.

What's not right is just long travel bikes were not really meant for the current 2x10 standard...this confirmed from an inside source. Some setups work ok, but not all.

Not a horrible idea, but I've run something similar before and wasn't stoked after bending bolts and the thin bash. I'll probably just buy a 3x10 crank w/bash such as the sixc, X0 am, or turbines due to a lack of free time.

Sent from my DROIDX using TGR Forums

[cooltsi]

You must struggle climbing with that setup. Ditching the chain does shed some weight though.

Huh? I'm running 22/34/Bash

[laxman2001]

My view is that 2x10 is nice but by no means necessary, and frankly would be pretty far down on my list for those suffering from upgradeitis.
(aside from handlebar stuff that's personal preference) I say fork and wheels first. But if you're rocking a 575 I'm betting you already have a nice fork.

(or just ride it until something breaks...)

[toast2266]

Toast- what whip did you settle on? FBird?

yeah - firebird. preliminary prognosis: that thing is the tits.

[axebiker]

I have a 1x9 setup on my Salsa El Mar, and a 2x10 setup on my Salsa Fargo, and a 2x9 setup on my Mukluk. I don't think I'm missing out on much of anything. I sure don't miss a third front ring, and will never go back to that kind of setup.

[skiergirl]

Question,
I have 2012 XT 3x10 (stock). I've been on a 2x9 (22/36/bash, 11-34) for years.

When I asked the shop tech about dropping to a 2x10, he said the new design of the XT cranks makes this much more of an expensive PITA than it used to be. Is this true? Can someone explain it to me? Thanks.

Not sure yet, but a bit nervous w/out a bash when riding Grand Junction and the like.

[kidwoo]

They must have changed the spider design on the cranks or something. That's about the only thing that would make it difficult.......or maybe it's hard to get a 36t 10sp ring or something.

[stuckathuntermtn]

It seems like the Shimano 2X10 cranks use standard BDC so I don't see the problem. Shifting maybe?

Is there a way to run 2X9 without cross chaining, btw? I'd love to just drop the big ring, and use more gears in the little ring. It seems like you don't really gain much but a different highend ratio with a 10 speed. I mean, there is 12-36 9 speed already.
Is 24t X 36 the same as 22 X34 and would you be pedaling slower? I guess I don't really get the ins and outs of gear ratios.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I know there are plenty of calculators on line, but I can't seem to find one that specifies how many turns of the crank/turns of the wheel. Or is that just ratio?
22 X 11 = 1 turn of the crank for 2 turns of the wheel?

[Bean]

So I ran some numbers in a spreadsheet this morning because I've been thinking about the ideal chainring for a 1x10. Before I did it, I was thinking something around 28T, maaaaayybe 30T - but with a 32T and an 11-36, you only lose two gears on the short end (and the granny is shorter than the 3rd granniest gear) and lose barely over one gear on the tall end compared to a 26/38 x 11-36. And then you don't have to dick around with weird BCD issues going smaller than a 32T.

[Bobcat Sig]

What's not right is just long travel bikes were not really meant for the current 2x10 standard...this confirmed from an inside source. Some setups work ok, but not all.

Agreed on the first part. My Slayer came with a 2x9 and it never really worked that great. A Blackspire Stinger helped with rough and rocky terrain, but eventually I just ditched the small ring. I couldn't pedal stuff with the granny as it was, so I did most of my pedaling in the big ring. Sure, I'm a litlte bit slower on the up, but it keeps my fat ass in shape and it's a worry-free drivetrain now.

If your bike can rock the 2X9/10, do it.

[Bean]

What's not right is just long travel bikes were not really meant for the current 2x10 standard...this confirmed from an inside source. Some setups work ok, but not all.

I'd like to hear more about this. How does not using the 3rd ring matter? What's the difference if your small ring is a 26 instead of a 22, and the middle a 38 instead of a 34 (or if you want to look at it the other way, your big ring a 38 instead of a 44, and your little a 26 instead of a 34)? What specific problem is caused? What needs to be done to the geometry to "fix" it?

[Anospa]

I think he might be getting at the issue of 2x10 being a whole new layout of gearing. I have to think that he's hinting at longer travel bikes should be a single front ring with a chain guide.

On a related note, I've heard from many people that some suspension designs don't work correctly when the front rings are smaller than what the platform was designed around. Its one of the reasons Ibis left off ISCG tabs on the Mojo HD: http://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/mojo_hd/#details

[Bean]

I think he might be getting at the issue of 2x10 being a whole new layout of gearing. I have to think that he's hinting at longer travel bikes should be a single front ring with a chain guide.

On a related note, I've heard from many people that some suspension designs don't work correctly when the front rings are smaller than what the platform was designed around. Its one of the reasons Ibis left off ISCG tabs on the Mojo HD: http://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/mojo_hd/#details

It's not a whole new layout, it's essentially the same as it's been just without a 3rd ring. Is anyone capable of explaining what these supposed problems are from an engineering standpoint?

[Roxtar]

It's not a whole new layout, it's essentially the same as it's been just without a 3rd ring. Is anyone capable of explaining what these supposed problems are from an engineering standpoint?I can not possibly imagine.
Sram has created this whole 2x thing like it's some super-specialized, re-engineered, reinventing of the wheel. They try to say your 3x front shifter that pulls a derailleur across 3 rings, won't pull the same derailleur across two. :rolleyes2
Sadly, most of the bike buying public believe them.

I assume it's to smokescreen the fact that simply removing the big ring does the exact same thing for a substantially smaller investment (like none). :nonono2:
In fact, doing it the cheap way will actually work better because you don't have to deal with Sram's cranks/rings which won't allow a bash ring.

[Anospa]

It's not a whole new layout, it's essentially the same as it's been just without a 3rd ring. Is anyone capable of explaining what these supposed problems are from an engineering standpoint?

Ok I'll give it a shot.

3x10 is the same as 2x10 without the 3rd front chainring.

2x9 is not the same as 2x10, because the chains, chainrings, and cassettes are thinner. I'm speaking out of my ass a bit (I'm not a 100% on it but I remember some of what the SRAM guys were saying when they did a 2x10 demo in the shop I go to last year), but the 2x10 platform changed how their shifting works with different/more ramps and whatnot (I forgot the majority of the buzzwords they threw out).

I'm not sure where or how this is affected in different suspension platforms (to be honest I don't think it makes a difference in 2x9 or 2x10).

Edit: slow on the reply.

Roxtar's point is solid; its a new standard they can roll out and charge a bit more for (I am a fan of it, its simpler = good in my book). But, it is nice for people that would want to have higher gears that they could run them on a 2x10 setup instead of a 3x9. They lost me on the 2x10 stuff when they didn't roll it out with a bashguard from the get-go.

[Roxtar]

Yea, I didn't mean to imply that they were the same. You can't use a 9sp rear shifter with a 10sp cassette.
I was just talking about the 2X part of 2X10.

As for the X10 part, I don't see a whole lot of reason for it over 9sp (but then I didn't see why 8sp wasn't good enough). Your top and low end gears are the same (11&34), you just get a slightly tighter gear range in between.
That's a lot of money for a very small change.

As for the 11X36 cassette, I can't imagine needing a lower gear than 24x34. Can you even pedal fast enough to stay upright?

[Bean]

As for the 11X36 cassette, I can't imagine needing a lower gear than 24x34. Can you even pedal fast enough to stay upright?

Yes. And if/when I end up running a 32T 1x10, I will very much appreciate that 36.

[Roxtar]

And if/when I end up running a 32T 1x10, I will very much appreciate that 36.I agree 100%, but for anything other than single front, it is pretty silly, don't you think?

[rideit]

I am going to run a 11-36 with a four chainring Mt. Tamer Quad setup. Gonna be tits!

[Roxtar]

Meh, I want a fixie with a 22x36.

And yes, the 22 is the front.


Make my skinny jeans a blur.

[Bean]

I agree 100%, but for anything other than single front, it is pretty silly, don't you think?

I probably spend more time in 26x36 than I do 38x11.

[Roxtar]

I probably spend more time in 26x36 than I do 38x11.Maybe I'm wrong, it's just hard to imagine needing anything more than a 34, and I'm not a little guy.

[rideit]

I think it is due to your location.

[toast2266]

This seems relevant:

http://www.raceface.com/newsletter/decline_magazine_2x10vs3x10.pdf

[Bean]

Maybe I'm wrong, it's just hard to imagine needing anything more than a 34, and I'm not a little guy.

Things around here are often straight up followed by straight down. I'm in pretty ok shape and love my granny gear.

[AKbruin]

This seems relevant:

http://www.raceface.com/newsletter/decline_magazine_2x10vs3x10.pdf

Thanks, that was an interesting read. I'm pretty okay with my 36/24 x 34/11 2x9 system. With a lighter bike, I'd like to try out a 1x10 with 34t or 32t in front and a 36/11 for simplicity's sake. But I could definitely see times when I'd lust for a true granny gear. Sadly, there's no direction to go without some sacrifice.

Adam Craig's quote was fairly interesting, considering he apparently rode a 40t 1x9 at Downieville (4200 vertical feet of unpleasant climbing) the year he won it, which is disgusting. Any climb that Craig claims is barely possible with a 2x10 is a climb I will walk up.


I’m torn on this topic, quite torn... It really
depends on how realistic of a rider you are. In
reality, as was proven to me yet again today,
even World Cup XC guys need an easy gear to
go on a proper adventure in the mountains.
The ride up to some random ski station in
the Dolomites would have been impossible
for me with a 1x10 system. It was just barely
possible with a 30x36 low gear of 2011 XTR
2x10... And the reward was immense, 3,300
feet of shredding downhill back to the valley
floor – totally worth it and way more pleasant
not having walked there. Plus, no matter how
many cow hoof prints I hit, the chain never
complained, let alone dropped.

The other half of me desperately wants as
few moving parts on my bike as possible, so when
I’m in the middle of nowhere there’s less to fail.
Walking once in a while or having to cane it up
a pitch is a small price to pay for a quiet, simple
drivetrain that works just fine 90-percent of the
time. Plus, you sure look tough and clever with a
single ring and can talk shit way more effectively.
So, if you want a bike that acknowledges reality,
get a front mech [derailleur]; if you romanticize
the simple things in life, the single is for you. Or
if you can’t learn to never backpedal…
Adam Craig
Team Rabobank-Giant
Bend, OR

[Roxtar]

I think it is due to your location.Yea, but I get to the mountains a lot.
Friends in Colorado Springs, Loveland, & SLC. Plus I try to get to Moab every couple years.
I also did Leadville last year so I'm somewhat familiar with climbing.

[AKbruin]

If I bought a new XT 2x10 crank set to replace my stock 2x9 crank set, would I need to replace my 9-speed cassette too? I don't actually want to go 2x10 yet but I would like a crank that will work with that system should I choose that route in the future.

[Lev]

If I bought a new XT 2x10 crank set to replace my stock 2x9 crank set, would I need to replace my 9-speed cassette too? I don't actually want to go 2x10 yet but I would like a crank that will work with that system should I choose that route in the future.

I don't know the exact answer to your question, but it probably depends on your chain. The width of the chain differs and may not be compatible.

If it were me, I'd wait till I was ready to swap everything and then let the new drivetrain wear down together. Changing parts one at a time on the drivetrain is not ideal.