Fritschi bindings for 2013?

[Aldburg]

With all the new AT bindings for 2013 like Salomon Guardian, Tyrolia Adrenalin, and new Marker Duke where is DIAMIR and their Fritschi bindings going? I see absolutely no point for their existence in the market. Tyrolia is aiming for a more budget AT bindings, Salomon and Duke and competing for top downhill performance with high DIN and of course Dynafit, PLUM, and La Sportiva duking it out for the ultralight weight touring. (couldn't help with the pun). I do love competition because its great for the consumer and I hope they can come out with something soon quickly because I doubt there will be much sales for them in the 2012-2013 season.

[Knut]

Rumours already said before this years ISPO exhibition, that fritschi has something revolutionary in the pipeline.
But that's really only 3rd hand rumours...

[skimaxpower]

Fritschi still has niche:
-Lighter than Duke, Baron, or Guardian
-Easy transition to tour mode - great for rolling terrain and hut trips
-Step in ease of use

I agree, however, that the market seems to be parting in two directions: tech and heavy duty. Fritschi is stuck in an increasingly small middle ground.

[LC]

Rumours already said before this years ISPO exhibition, that fritschi has something revolutionary in the pipeline.

Looked like the same old models there, but I only took a quick look.

[toast2266]

Fritschi still has the "people who don't know any better" market cornered. They can still milk a couple more years out of that one.

[XXX-er]

Fritschi can use alpine or AT boots, they generaly don't break if used as directed , a tried and true (boring) design with a good dealer netwerk, there are still a ton of those bindings out there

Is the vast middle ground really decreasing or just the people you know, any sales figures ?

I noticed because of the more ergonomic pivot which is further rearward the eagles and the freeride pro have less range of motion before the toepiece hits the ski top but they still haven't broken like the markers

[Wetdog]

You have to remember that Europe is a huge market where they are still very popular. Amongst backcountry touring people here, those who you don't see at the resort, it is often a choice between Fritschi and Dynafit rather than Marker and Dynafit. I have Barons on a pair of alpine skis, Fritschis on another, and Dynafits on everything else. If I were given a choice between the Baron and the Freeride to do a longer tour, I would definitely choose the Freeride even though at the Resort for side country, the Markers would be my choice. All these new bindings cater to the resort slack country crowd. No one who seriously tours is going to put a 2.5 kg or heavier binding on a dedicated touring ski. On the weekends in the BC and at huts, there are a few Marker tours and tons of Fritschi and Dynafit and no Dukes or Barons. In fact, Fritschi still outnumbers Dynafit in my neck of the woods. It is lighter than the other step ins, easier to transition, and has a more ergonomic walk mode. If you are a serious tourer, it is the logical choice if you are not going Dynafit and is the binding I point new backcountry skiers to for ease of use.

[Crusty]

People predicted the demise of Fritschi with the advent of the Duke and Naxo before that; obviously didn't happen. In my neck of the woods they are still the most popular bc binding. Plenty of people I know use them for all their skiing and bought new ones this year. They tend to use one rig for everything, don't want to hike all day in Dukes and don't want to ski the resort with Dynafit.

[Quadzilla]

Fritschi is part of Black Diamond and their large dealer network and BD does a good job of making sure their dealers are well stocked and their warentee department is tops.

[sqikunst]

don't want to hike all day in Dukes and don't want to ski the resort with Dynafit.

Sums it up well....

Fritchi is a awesome binding for 95% of back county skiers. Not every one hucks and Dyna is still in my opinion better then a fritchi on all fronts for touring but does not offer step in comfort. On really cold days there are those of us who try licking our inserts to free them of ice... ;) licking the cold hole isnt always fun when its freezing any those pins just dont want to go it.

[XXX-er]

You have to remember that Europe is a huge market where they are still very popular..

Your comment somehow twigged the wayback machine in my drug addled mind about an artical published over at wildsnow

"Stefan and I got to talking numbers and discussing the future of backcountry skiing gear. He said that the total number of AT bindings sold in a year (for all brands) is about 120,000. Most in Europe of course, with North America buying about the same number of units as an EU country such as Austria or France"

to sum it up ...you americans simply don't count for much, and canadians would count for about 1/10th of what americans don't count for

The full articale

http://www.wildsnow.com/1075/rosti-prep-then-fritschi-factory-visit/

[Chugachjed]

Your comment somehow twigged the wayback machine in my drug addled mind about an artical published over at wildsnow

"Stefan and I got to talking numbers and discussing the future of backcountry skiing gear. He said that the total number of AT bindings sold in a year (for all brands) is about 120,000. Most in Europe of course, with North America buying about the same number of units as an EU country such as Austria or France"

to sum it up ...you americans simply don't count for much, and canadians would count for about 1/10th of what americans don't count for

The full articale

http://www.wildsnow.com/1075/rosti-prep-then-fritschi-factory-visit/

I'd bet a lot had changed in 4 years.

[XXX-er]

Which part of the touring binding market has really changed much in 4 yrs that would affect Fritschi's bottom line ?

The part where NA (I notice including Canada) amounts to SFA when it comes to market share is IMO the only important part of that info and you got no other figures but you are willing to bet on what ?

what you see in the lift line or read on TGR ?

[El Chupacabra]

Whether Fritschi sells more (even 100,000 more) outside of North America simply doesn't change the fact that other bindings ski better.

Fritschi = sloppy.

[D(C)]

Do Fritschis walk better than Dukes or Barons?

[shirk]

The market has split and the middle ground that best suits Diamir has nearly disappeared.

The Diamir certainly is the better binding for many people...but those people are buying either a heavier set-up or a lighter set-up.

Manufacturing has remained in Switzerland and prices are higher than the competitors in North America. It's gotten harder for the dealers to make good money on an under hyped under promoted product that has seen next to no new innovation in ages. The dealers are pushing the easy money and pushing sales of the competing products.

[El Chupacabra]

Do Fritschis walk better than Dukes or Barons?

The stride is about the same, from what I remember (it's been awhile since I toured on Fritschi). The Fritschi climbing bar is taller and much easier to use.

[shirk]

I noticed because of the more ergonomic pivot which is further rearward the eagles and the freeride pro have less range of motion before the toepiece hits the ski top but they still haven't broken like the markers

There is a mechanism in the toe that allows the bar to slide and cushion the impact of a "knee fall".

Next time you see an Eagle or FR Pro grab one and pull it up to it's full travel and you'll see the toe and bar slide back. It's a smart design that allowed the pivot to move back into the same spot as a tech pivot location.

[shirk]

Do Fritschis walk better than Dukes or Barons?

You need to qualify between the new Eagle and Freeride Pro vs the old Freerides and Freeride Pluses. So many people make comments about the sloppiness or stride of a Fritschi but they don't qualify what generation or model.

The Eagle and Freeride Plus do have a much more natural walking stride than other step in binding options due to the pivot point. It's a noticeable improvement over previous designs.

[Dickeymotto]

I had Fritschi's a few years back as my only binding (because I wanted to get into touring and could only afford one setup) and skied the resort every day in them. Yes I would get chucked out of them often when trying to hit any air (partially because of crazy tip dive because I was on narrow sticks), but I still skied everything on them and did just fine. Even straightlined a few chutes into nasty chop on them and held it together.

The point is, I don't want to ski backcountry the same way I do in resorts. There is a lot more risk involved, not just from avi's, but from normal ski injuries as well. For the toned down level that I would ski with in the backcountry, Fritschi's are more than adequate. I don't think I am alone in that mindset either. In my experience, they are super durabe and reliable and much lighter then my resort setup. They may not be the burliest or lightest on the market, but they're not bad. I'd buy them again for sure.

[Chugachjed]

Which part of the touring binding market has really changed much in 4 yrs that would affect Fritschi's bottom line ?

The part where NA (I notice including Canada) amounts to SFA when it comes to market share is IMO the only important part of that info and you got no other figures but you are willing to bet on what ?

what you see in the lift line or read on TGR ?

Mostly what I see in the backcountry. And what is sold out from store shelves. Again I'm not taking about technology just the north american touring binding market.

[Wetdog]

Do Fritschis walk better than Dukes or Barons?

Yes they do. I demoed a pair of skis last spring with the Freeride Pro, which has the same redesigned pivot point as the Eagle. It is back further under the toe than the Marker bindings and gives a noticeably more ergonomic stride as well as being lighter. I didn't feel any more "slop" than any other binding skiing them and was quite impressed actually. I had Freerides and Freeride Pluses on several of my skis in the past and never had any complaints. I have transitioned to Dynafit now, but if I was buying a backcountry step in binding it would be a Fritschi. All this talk of Fritschi being squeezed out of the market is conjecture. The company is alive and doing well selling bindings to the same people it always has. All these new bindings by Atomic, Solomon and Tyrolia are aimed at the slack country crowd, primarily in North America which is a relatively new market niche.

[shirk]

All this talk of Fritschi being squeezed out of the market is conjecture.

Not conjecture. Fritschi is on life support in Canada.

[acinpdx]

my $.02

two seasons ago, before purchasing, i tested (actually went out for day tours) dynafit, dukes & freerides. i ended up getting freeride pros and have used them as part of a one ski quiver (i wasn't able to afford multiple skis and probably won't for a few years).

why?
1. cheaper than dynafit
2. i really like the ease of use.
3. works just fine in resort on all terrain, and is a very capable touring binding
4. DIN range is well within my needs and i'm 6-5, 200#, type III, 40yo. frankly, i'm somewhat mystified by people's need to be set up at 12 and above when they weigh less than me (i'm not a former racer, so what do i know)

IMHO, the complaints about range of pivot in walk mode or side to side sloppiness are nitpicky points at best from reviewers who need to find differentiation between models, NTTAWWT. because of my size, i put some force on my gear, and my personal use of the three models showed little difference for me. and it came down to what is easiest to use and was the best price.

after two seasons now in resort and out, i've crashed in these, jumped things (tho not in epic tgr fashion), scraped them with edges and sharp pole tips, and skied all types of conditions, and they are doing just fine.

would i prefer to have a dedicated touring setup? yes, dynafit please!
or dedicated in-resort setup? sure!

but until then, this binding is serving quite well on both fronts

[Chugachjed]

Carpathian is the only guy I know that tours on fritschi. Their market share is small enough in AK that I'm genuinely surprised every time I see a pair.

[toast2266]

This has nothing to do with Fritschi's 2013 offerings, but I think it's funny:

A friend just switched out some Freeride Pros and got into some Marker Tour f12's. He keeps complaining about how hooky his skis are now (same skis, just different bindings) since he doesn't get that 2 second delay between leaning over and turning.

[Wetdog]

He must be very delicate. The Princess and the pea. I have ridden all of them, Freerides, F12's, Dukes, Barons, Dynafits, Naxos. There is a difference, but If you can ski, you can ski. My buddy skied on an old pair of beat up Prior Originals, never sharpened the edges or waxed them. They were mounted with a wobbly pair of pre Freeride Diamirs. The rest of us were all gear nerds and always had the best gear for the conditions and no one could ever keep up with him no matter how good their gear was, because he was a great skier and he was better than the rest of us.

[Aldburg]

He must be very delicate. The Princess and the pea. I have ridden all of them, Freerides, F12's, Dukes, Barons, Dynafits, Naxos. There is a difference, but If you can ski, you can ski. My buddy skied on an old pair of beat up Prior Originals, never sharpened the edges or waxed them. They were mounted with a wobbly pair of pre Freeride Diamirs. The rest of us were all gear nerds and always had the best gear for the conditions and no one could ever keep up with him no matter how good their gear was, because he was a great skier and he was better than the rest of us.

Nice analogy Wetdog. I unfortunately or fortunately learned how to ski on a pair of 175CM women's BD skis with dynafit radicals so I don't know how other bindings feel like to ski. You are right on that ultimately it is the driver of the ski that makes the biggest difference, although nice gear certainly helps us that are not quite so gifted :)

[D(C)]

He must be very delicate. The Princess and the pea. I have ridden all of them, Freerides, F12's, Dukes, Barons, Dynafits, Naxos. There is a difference, but If you can ski, you can ski. My buddy skied on an old pair of beat up Prior Originals, never sharpened the edges or waxed them. They were mounted with a wobbly pair of pre Freeride Diamirs. The rest of us were all gear nerds and always had the best gear for the conditions and no one could ever keep up with him no matter how good their gear was, because he was a great skier and he was better than the rest of us.

Many of us could ski on inferior/poorly maintained gear without much loss in ability to ski what you want, but why would you?

[Hugh Conway]

Fritschi still has the "people who don't know any better" market cornered. They can still milk a couple more years out of that one.

You mean "people who aren't dickbag TGR poseurs"



A friend just switched out some Freeride Pros and got into some Marker Tour f12's. He keeps complaining about how hooky his skis are now (same skis, just different bindings) since he doesn't get that 2 second delay between leaning over and turning.

TGR poseur dickbag case in point.

[toast2266]

butthurt owners of Fritschi bindings flock to tech talk in record numbers...

[powder_prophet]

At my shop in WY we certainly saw a big decline in Fritschi sales this year. Dynafits we couldn't keep on the shelves. We sold everything we had, including a couple midseason orders. And all full price. But we still have over a dozen Fritschis sitting in the basement, marked down 40% off.

We have sold a few, and there is certainly a market, but the numbers are dropping.

Another interesting thing to note, on a totally different topic, 5 years ago our shop sold ~66% tele, ~33% AT. But by now, its more like ~75% AT, ~25% tele.

[big mike]

i have been on fritchis only for the last 6 seasons. i use a one ski quiver and am touring sidecountry almost every day, as well as skiing inbounds. im not a pro, i dont huck big airs, i just ski alot of untracked powder. im a big guy and was leery of dynafits and tried barons once then sold them to a swede. they tour better the tracks dont ice up like markers and good heel lift. never broke a pair and i have had 4 or 5 i think. current set up 191 ehp 4frnt with fritchi freeride pros. " they used to call me an OG now i ski like hoji"

[XavierD]

How much do a pair of freeride pros cost these days? How much does a pair of Barons or F10s cost? How much does the Eagle cost?

[XXX-er]

There is a mechanism in the toe that allows the bar to slide and cushion the impact of a "knee fall".

Next time you see an Eagle or FR Pro grab one and pull it up to it's full travel and you'll see the toe and bar slide back. It's a smart design that allowed the pivot to move back into the same spot as a tech pivot location.

Interesting! I have just played with the eagle & Pro's in shops and noticed less travel than the FR+ ... I will look again

if N.A. amounts to the sales of one country from yurp then I gotta wonder how sales are in the rest of the EU and it doesn't matter if other bindings ski better as long as people keep buying an inferiour (?) binding



last time I seen carpathian tour I'm pretty sure it was on g3's and I can't think of a skier more likely to break any binding than Jake

[Chugachjed]

last time I seen carpathian tour I'm pretty sure it was on g3's and I can't think of a skier more likely to break any binding than Jake
Every time I've toured with him, only like 3 times, he's been on old fritschi's and alpine boots. And yea Jake kills it.

[XXX-er]

I happened upon buddy towing his infant daughter on a plastic zellers sled with a bunch of yer typical Smithers weirdo/freaks partying ... in the middle of nowhere

[Hugh Conway]

butthurt owners of Fritschi bindings flock to tech talk in record numbers...

toast2266 = Fritschi Diamir of posters. can't master the extra couple of DIN, much less more performance

[ulty_guy]

Let's not forget that the patent on the Tech fittings and bindings ran out a year or so ago and hence we are seeing a rapid increase in the number of offerings in the Tech boot and even binding space. This was always one of the main reasons why people went towards Fritschi but you can get a Tecnica Bodacious which is pretty much a full on downhill boot and ski them with dynafits. No compromises.

[coldfeet]

Fritschi needs to get with the program and introduce a new binding model that is flashy, improved, and provokes long TGR threads about all the first-year breakages. It's working for all the other binding manufacturers, but Fritschi is being left behind.

[neck beard]

Don't forget the group buy and wannabe vested interests.

[toast2266]

toast2266 = Fritschi Diamir of posters. can't master the extra couple of DIN, much less more performance

Does that make you the tele binding of posters? Can't go anywhere without a smug attitude of "I know something you don't"

[keksie]

Fritschi needs to get with the program and introduce a new binding model that is flashy, improved, and provokes long TGR threads about all the first-year breakages. It's working for all the other binding manufacturers, but Fritschi is being left behind.

Don't forget the group buy and wannabe vested interests.

WHER iS the group buy for next years salomon? i heard they are going to be sweeeet! i heard if you remove half of the toepiece the din goes up to 20 and you can huck cliffs with them. i'm sure the construction is bomber since i've seen a photo of it

ps. its ok if they break as long as their customer service bro's are cool and send me a sticker with the replacement parts and make me feel special!

PPS. i heard these ones come with brakes too, eeeepic

[Wetdog]

Many of us could ski on inferior/poorly maintained gear without much loss in ability to ski what you want, but why would you?

Because it costs a shit load of money to look cool and current in the lift line year after year and in the end, the difference is 75% in your head and no one really cares what you are skiing on anyway.