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View Full Version : Is white glue for "woodworking crafts" good enough for a binding mount?



BiggC
02-02-2012, 01:59 PM
Mounting up a pair of super S7s, already have holes in the right place, just want to make sure I use the right glue.

Is this stuff good enough, or should I go out and get some carpenter's glue?

gregL
02-02-2012, 02:26 PM
The "right glue" and "good enough" are not necessarily the same. If it says "waterproof" on the package it is probably "good enough."

F#*k You Cat
02-02-2012, 02:27 PM
Search Jong

1. Marine Epoxy
2. Nothing
3. See number 1


http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/216051-Binding-mounting-myths


last wood glue. why would you purpousely insert water into a New Ski?

Snow Dog
02-02-2012, 02:28 PM
Typical white wood glue isn't waterproof so it's not good enough. The purpose of the glue is to seal the hole and keep moisture out. Unless you strip the hole. Then use marine epoxy to glue the screw in place.

el penoso
02-02-2012, 04:03 PM
Shops routinely use white wood glue. Its good enough.

commonlaw
02-02-2012, 04:13 PM
Rontele uses santorum

toast2266
02-02-2012, 04:15 PM
It will make the mount stronger. Of course, that's only until you ski it, the glue gets cold and brittle, cracks, and lets moisture into your core, at which point you'll wish you used slow set epoxy or some other such adhesive that stays flexible while cold. On the upside, carpenters glue won't be any different, so of the options you listed, either one is fine.

[/world will end]

TransplantedFromRMNP
02-02-2012, 04:38 PM
marine epoxy is what you should use

BigLineSeeker
02-02-2012, 04:46 PM
The DPS mounting instructions suggest using Gorilla Glue. I used that on my last mount and it seems pretty bomber. You just need to ensure that you do not use too much because it does expand as it dries.

jfost
02-02-2012, 05:05 PM
commonlaw FTW

potd.

jon gaper
02-03-2012, 03:59 AM
Shops routinely use white wood glue. Its good enough.

Another good reason to DIY

DropCliffsNotBombs
02-03-2012, 07:34 AM
No. White glue is no good.

VTskibum
02-03-2012, 07:40 AM
Recently used Marine Goop this per some recommendations on this board. Too early to tell long-term, but was as easy to apply as wood glue, but is built for keeping water out.

Marine Goop
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM6541718002P?sid=IDx20101019x00001 a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM6541718002

Not quite epoxy strength from what I understand but still a good adhesive too.

ACHTUNG
02-03-2012, 08:14 AM
Roo Glue

XXX-er
02-03-2012, 08:38 AM
"Devcon, 3M, Hardman, Gorilla Glue, and Hysol make excellent two-part epoxies for the task. Gorilla Glue, Titebond Polyurethane, and Elmer’s Polyurethane are excellent one component adhesives. DO NOT USE CONVENTIONAL WOOD GLUE. Using conventional wood glue may void the warranty."

DPS is mainly saying don't use wood glue

PU glue is water seeking so if there is any moisture the glue seeks it out and thats where the bubbling happens, they even suggest wetting solid surfaces before gluing.

If you use too much PU glue it just spews out the threads onto your ski top ... they do not explode

DropCliffsNotBombs
02-03-2012, 09:13 AM
Roo Glue

^^^^ Yes! ^^^^ Better than wood glue and epoxy. Just right!

axebiker
02-03-2012, 09:23 AM
I've used "Carpenter Glue" with no issues. I prefer Titebond 3 these days for the waterproof applications. I also have been trying Marine Goop for Tele boards, as I have had issues with screws getting loose, and the Goop is more flexible, so unlike wood glue, it shouldnt "break". Time will tell.

I have yet to ever use epoxy on a ski mount.

gregL
02-03-2012, 09:27 AM
Shops routinely use white wood glue. Its good enough.

Shop customers often ski only 6-10 days a year (or less) and not in the rain or late spring. They typically won't notice the difference over the life of the skis. Personally I go the epoxy route, something that cures in more than 5 minutes helps you get it all in the holes before it starts setting up.

bbense
02-03-2012, 10:02 AM
I've used "Carpenter Glue" with no issues. I prefer Titebond 3 these days for the waterproof applications.

Titebond3 has failed eventually for me every time I've used it. Takes a couple seasons of wet Sierra snow, but it's not worked well for me. It may be because I'm a hack and don't get the holes/screws just right and leave a gap that titebond can't cover, but it's off my list...

XXX-er
02-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Personally I go the epoxy route, something that cures in more than 5 minutes helps you get it all in the holes before it starts setting up.

IME slow set epoxy is WAY better/stronger than 5 min epoxy, I put some extra 5 min on the blade of a ww paddle just for kicks and it got soft/fell off pretty quick, I don't think 5min is water proof and usually if you got time to apply glue you got time to wait 24hrs

I do have some 5min but its in a emergency repair kit ... I wouldn't use it for normal repair work

hit the head of an epoxied screw with a hot soldering iron for 15 sec and the bond is broken

Big Steve
02-03-2012, 01:08 PM
IME, screws with Titebond III get rusty, evidence that it does not create a waterproof bond and seal.

In the shop, I use slow set epoxy (currently Hysol I got from Slidewright -- strong and quite flexible, 6 hour cure time).

In my field repair kit I carry fast set epoxy (Hardman Double Bubble Red).

IME, polyurethane (PU) glues like Gorilla seem to create a waterproof seal. But I don't like the idea of bubbles (voids) so I don't use PU glue for ski mounts.

axebiker
02-03-2012, 06:23 PM
IME, screws with Titebond III get rusty, evidence that it does not create a waterproof bond and seal.

Good to know! I'll keep an eye open for that.

pfluffenmeister
02-03-2012, 08:29 PM
Recently used Marine Goop this per some recommendations on this board. Too early to tell long-term, but was as easy to apply as wood glue, but is built for keeping water out.

Marine Goop
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM6541718002P?sid=IDx20101019x00001 a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM6541718002

Not quite epoxy strength from what I understand but still a good adhesive too.

i too started using the goop after reading marshalolsen's glowing recommendation.
i'm going to be removing the bindings that were gooped soon, hopefully w/o incident.
anyone find it necessary to use a soldering iron when removing screws held in by Marine Goop?

Jonathan S.
02-04-2012, 11:31 AM
What do we think about GE Silicone II Glue (http://www.caulkyourhome.com/ge-silicone-II-household-glue.php)?

The official description reads:
*****
This is a premium glue for project repairs around the house.

ADDITIONAL FEATURES
Waterproof and airtight adhesion
Sun-/freeze-proof; won't crack or crumble
TYPICAL USES: General household repairs

ADHERES TO: tile, porcelain, glass, fiberglass, marble, wood, steel, aluminum, brick, mortar, concrete, and most plastics
*****
I saw it recommended in an old archived tech manual from Goode. (Given how notorious their skis are for binding pullouts, I'm not sure if that's a good sign or bad sign!)
Compared to Goop, the fumes are nowhere near as bad.
Compared to 3M Marine Epoxy, the tube can be used again (and without having to store it in the freezer).
Compared to various epoxies, don't need to heat up the screw to remove.
Compared to wood glue, not injecting water in the hole.
I used it in a test mount overnight, and then in couple mounts for real, and so far so good.

jondrums
02-04-2012, 01:21 PM
this is a fun thread. I personally like to use a 24hr two-part epoxy. Lots of other things work great too. I feel the main function of any glue in a traditional ski mount is to seal the hole and keep melted snow (water) out. This is why lots of different glues work great.

Two types of glue DON'T work:
-non-waterproof glue (white elmers and some woodworking glue)
-brittle glue (superglue, 5-minute epoxy, ect)

tillPOWdidwepart
02-04-2012, 03:29 PM
I use G-flex 650 on everything these days and I've had good luck so far. Even built a DIY splitboard that seems to be holding its own...

toast2266
02-04-2012, 04:01 PM
What do we think about GE Silicone II Glue (http://www.caulkyourhome.com/ge-silicone-II-household-glue.php)?



I've been using something similar (forget which brand) for a couple years now for all mounts where I'm not concerned about strength (which is most mounts that I do). So far I've had good luck with it - no evidence of cracking or brittleness, no evidence of moisture getting in, and easy to pull the screws out when needed.

Hugh Conway
02-04-2012, 04:46 PM
I've been using something similar (forget which brand) for a couple years now for all mounts where I'm not concerned about strength (which is most mounts that I do).

How much "strength" does "marine grade epoxy" (whatever the fuck that means) add?

iscariot
02-04-2012, 05:05 PM
Worked at several shops and done many of my own mounts over the decades.

Outdoor/waterproof wood glue is what they used, has always been fine. I have never had a pullout, or had a pair come back to any shop I worked at...

DropCliffsNotBombs
02-04-2012, 07:00 PM
How much "strength" does "marine grade epoxy" (whatever the fuck that means) add?
The "strength" doesn't come from any glue. It comes from the screws threads contacting the core/laminates. The glue is there for lubricating the screw, then forming a watertight seal around the hole.
In this day and age, imagine if it we actually had to epoxy our screws in in order to make them work?! That would suck.

toast2266
02-05-2012, 11:33 AM
How much "strength" does "marine grade epoxy" (whatever the fuck that means) add?


The "strength" doesn't come from any glue. It comes from the screws threads contacting the core/laminates. The glue is there for lubricating the screw, then forming a watertight seal around the hole.
In this day and age, imagine if it we actually had to epoxy our screws in in order to make them work?! That would suck.

A couple guys have done pull out tests for screws with and without epoxy (here's a link (http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=34239)to one of those tests). The epoxy adds considerable strength because (as I understand it) the epoxy seeps into the core around the screw. Basically, if an epoxied screw pulls out, it's going to pull a sizable chunk of core with it. Obviously the epoxy isn't necessary to get a mount that's strong enough for the vast majority of situations. Since I'm not a huge guy and I don't tend to rip bindings out of skis, I don't generally bother with the epoxy unless its a mount that I'm worried about for some reason (i.e. reusing old holes where the core doesn't look pristine).

Lahar
02-05-2012, 11:45 AM
i too started using the goop after reading marshalolsen's glowing recommendation.
i'm going to be removing the bindings that were gooped soon, hopefully w/o incident.
anyone find it necessary to use a soldering iron when removing screws held in by Marine Goop?

I have not needed an iron. When Marine Goop is dry its the consistency of industrial strength rubber cement, pliable and stretchy.

XXX-er
02-05-2012, 12:15 PM
IME you can make new threads in a ski core from slowset epoxy & chopped fibreglass strands, sure someone will tell you the date expired 5min epoxy & steel wool they used while having beers and smoking a fatty didnt work but maybe its cuz he did a shitty job with shitty materials ?

Slowset Epoxy sticks to the screw so you are not just making stronger threads you are sticking that screw to the ski core so if it wasn't you who originally installed A binding you don't know if epoxy or wood glue was used but I would say ANY time you got a screw that won't come try using a soldering iron BEFORE you strip the head

Hugh Conway
02-05-2012, 08:05 PM
IME you can make new threads in a ski core from slowset epoxy & chopped fibreglass strands, sure someone will tell you the date expired 5min epoxy & steel wool they used while having beers and smoking a fatty didnt work but maybe its cuz he did a shitty job with shitty materials ?

I've seen similar rec'd for high strength mounting of threaded rods in bots - cut a clearance whole larger than thread diameter, fill with epoxy & filler, add threaded rod/screw, let sit.

not that I don't believe ttips, just not sure how much strength would be added from the relatively little epoxy remaining in a good screw.

stuckathuntermtn
02-05-2012, 08:52 PM
This shit again.

Remember not to use epoxy with foam core skis as it can cause global thermonuclear war or something.

canwilf
02-06-2012, 12:05 AM
I use slow set marine epoxy. This stuff:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/lepageltsupgtreglt-supgt-marine-epoxy/973090

I left it cure just little (1 hour) before screwing in the bindings.

The screws always come out fine, just with a nice down-force while twisting. And they leave nice threads that re-screw the next time.

Mind you, that's all overkill. I hear Gorilla glue is just fine to lube the screws and seal the pores.

XXX-er
02-06-2012, 01:18 PM
I've seen similar rec'd for high strength mounting of threaded rods in bots - cut a clearance whole larger than thread diameter, fill with epoxy & filler, add threaded rod/screw, let sit.

not that I don't believe ttips, just not sure how much strength would be added from the relatively little epoxy remaining in a good screw.

I take my cue from the abuse of WW kayak's & paddles where you find any resin rich layup is not as strong (why they vacum bag out the extra resin?)so I make sure to add lots of chopped 1/2" long FG filler strand, I make sure to wet out the FG but Ideally I want to end up with more wetted FG filler than epoxy in a damaged screw hole

After a curing time if I can tighten down the screw, if it doesnt spin or pull out the hole is fixed, if the binding is still attached to the ski 5 yrs later it worked and it has for me ... not an engineer but I fix stuff