Recommend a lightweight softshell

[SeatownSlackey]

In need of a layering piece for touring. Im on the hot n sweaty end of the spectrum, and just in case it wasn't totally obvious from my handle, located here in the temperate but wet PNW. Been searching for a lightweight, slim fitting softshell to wear over my usual baselayer of pattagucci Cap3. Want something that will shed some precip on the way up but get too steamy. My usual second layer is lowe alpine piece similar to a r1 so not too warm and breathes great but doesn't shed any snow/rain.

Based on the above, im looking at the Patagonia Traverse (http://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-traverse-softshell-jacket-mens) and Stoic Monolith (http://www.backcountry.com/stoic-monolith-softshell-jacket-mens) or the Marmot Tempo (http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-tempo-softshell-jacket-mens)

Something else i should be looking at? feedback on any of the above? Price wise they all three are +/- $10 so no help there.

[ccwaskier]

I personally really like the Patagonia Houdini for touring in the PNW. Superlight, but keeps the breeze and light precip off. I wear the Houdini way more than my Arc Teryx Gamma MX hoody in the northwest.

[SeatownSlackey]

^^^how does it breathe? it gets rave reviews but i guess im skeptical that nylon can really breathe that well.

[bouguer]

i just picked up a new mountain hardware dryq hooded effusion jacket. Its pretty thin, has shedded water just fine and seems to breathe quite well based on a couple bike rides in the cold. We'll see how it does a tour next weekend.

[pfluffenmeister]

mammut ultimate softshell hoody has awesome ventilation (elbow to hem zips).

[Meadow Skipper]

Rab Sawtooth (http://us.rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/soft-shell/sawtooth-jacket.html). Very breathable.

[hafilax]

I was looking for the same thing and got an arcteryx acto as a gift. Pretty expensive but has been great so far. I can wear it skinning at just below freezing without getting soaked and leave it on for the descent.

Sent from my GT-I9000M using TGR Forums

[zeroforhire]

I've had tons of soft shells over the years, but I keep using my patagonia ready mix for touring. Really light soft shell. Pretty thin too, but seems to hold up well.
Way more breathable than the gamma mx due to the fact that it does not have a fleece backing.
The downside is that it is kinda tough to find. It was replaced by the heavier ascensionist a few years back.

[SeatownSlackey]

Thanks to all for the input.

After much online sleuthing and a solid hr in REI i came home with three contenders;

Arcteryx Acto (http://www.backcountry.com/arcteryx-acto-mx-fleece-jacket-mens) REI Clearance @ $180
Patagonia Wind Shield Jacket (http://www.rei.com/product/818005/patagonia-wind-shield-jacket-mens) @full retail $150
Marmot ROM (http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-rom-softshell-jacket-mens) REI clearance @$120

While i initially had planned to steer clear of windstopper, the hybrid construction of the ROM with large panels under arm and solid reviews attesting to their effectiveness have me convinced enough to make it the ultimate winner. Clearance price was a solid plus as well.

Liked the Acto a lot but i am just in between a L & XL and its' powershield fabric wasn't not nearly as supple as the other two though probably more durable in the long run.

[Big Steve]

Windstopper Active next-to-skin works best for the sweatiest of the sweaty. I'm a ubersweaty Viking and I've been wearing a MH Transition Jacket hoodie next-to-skin for the past three touring seasons. Works great from 5F to 40F when moving (e.g., skinning, hiking, scrambling) so long as I use the zipper to vent. During breaks I layer over it and it quickly bakes dry. Best touring base layer I've ever used by a mile. People can't figure out how to use next-to-skin stuff so MH quit making it. Fuck.

[Dromond]

I also sweat a lot and a few years ago searched like crazy for something like this. I got the Patagonia Traverse and have found it to be excellent. It is very thin and doesn't trap much heat. I wear it over a thin base layer and the breathability is fantastic. You have to renew the DWR every so often if you want it to shed any liquid precip, like most any softshell. Big Steve's next-to-ski thing sounds sweet for warmer but wetter weather. I use the Traverse for skinning in cool, cold or windy weather and then switch to just a base layer when it is mild.

[samthaman]

Driclime, houdini, or pretty much any unlined softshell all work about the same in my experience. I'm a big fan of paring them with wool base layers

[Big Steve]

Big Steve's next-to-ski thing sounds sweet for warmer but wetter weather.No, actually VBs and quasi-VBs work best when it's cold or very cold or bitterly cold.

[Dromond]

No, actually VBs and quasi-VBs work best when it's cold or very cold or bitterly cold.

I didn't realize that worked as a VB. I don't have as much trouble with cold weather. It's the 33 degree snow that gets me. Warm enough that you sweat a lot while climbing and warm enough that all the snow melts as it touches you and you get almost as wet as if it was raining.

[Big Steve]

I didn't realize that worked as a VB. * * * It's the 33 degree snow that gets me. It's definitely a barrier to vapor, especially for a sweaty guy, though less of a barrier than, say, a Stephenson fuzzy thing shirt. "Semi-VB" or "quasi-VB" are apt terms for the Transition. If you can find one, get it and try it in that 33F snow -- common touring conditions in the PNW, of course. It's the only thing that has worked for me in those conditions. Be prepared to experiment. And, whatever you do, use it next to skin.

[Dromond]

It's definitely a barrier to vapor, especially for a sweaty guy, though less of a barrier than, say, a Stephenson fuzzy thing shirt. "Semi-VB" or "quasi-VB" are apt terms for the Transition. If you can find one, get it and try it in that 33F snow -- common touring conditions in the PNW, of course. It's the only thing that has worked for me in those conditions. Be prepared to experiment. And, whatever you do, use it next to skin.

Is the idea that is gets damp and warm under there and you start sweating?

Edit: I meant that the dampness makes you STOP sweating.

[bbense]

I didn't realize that worked as a VB. I don't have as much trouble with cold weather. It's the 33 degree snow that gets me. Warm enough that you sweat a lot while climbing and warm enough that all the snow melts as it touches you and you get almost as wet as if it was raining.

What works for me in those conditions is a Cloudveil Black ice jacket combined with a fishnet base layer and wool t-shirt. Sadly Cloudveil doesn't make exactly the same jacket anymore.
Schoeller DrySkin Extreme was used as the fabric. It does get wet, but is doesn't get cold and if you put a puffy layer on right away when you stop, your body heat will help dry the clothes.

I got an eVent hard shell two seasons ago and I'm still figuring out exactly how to make it work in those conditions for skinning. Using it on top of the soft shell works great for resort skiing
in those conditions, but in the BC I still need to figure out the right layering.

Googling, I found this.

http://www.rei.com/product/804461/westcomb-skeena-hoodie-jacket-mens,-black?preferredSku=8044610056?cm_mmc&mr:trackingCode=23D30894-76DC-DF11-B41F-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

Looks very interesting, the one change I would make to my Black Ice jacket is some waterproofing on the shoulders. I think that would help a lot with the heavy wet snow.

[wcf3]

I and four other guys in my group got a chance to try out some First Ascent gear on a trip to Patagonia and Antarctica where we were touring in a variety of conditions for two weeks. The one piece of gear (from the things we were able to try out) that most impressed all of us was the First Ascent 18K soft shell jacket.

Of note:

-Really well made, high quality stitching, zippers, etc.
-Very breathable. The first shell I've tried in which I was comfortable doing ascents in warmer temperatures. Also nicely elastic and non restrictive.
-Plenty of pockets in convenient places.
-Pit zips that are easy to open/close one handed.
-Light liner layer that kept the jacket from feeling clammy next to light under layer or skin.
-Wider sleeve openings than you usually find in soft shells that allows you to seal sleeve over glove cuffs. Nice when you have to have your hands in the snow a lot , e.g. steep boot packs and using axes.
-Nice hood outfitting that allows you to adjust the hood so that it is comfortable and turns with your head with or without a helmet.

I got one for myself and practically live in it now.

[hillmap]

I'm also a big fan of the patagonia Houdini. I often bike commute in seattle rain in mine and tour in it fairly often. It is very very breathable but not waterproof...it will keep you dry for an hour or so but it will soak through after a while (keeping it clean and DWRed helps).

That said I mostly tour discontinued Patagonia Ascentionist is also great for a more durable coat that is still thin/uninsulated and breathable...mine is wearing out and I'd love to find another coat made from the same fabric. I think the new Guide softshell is thicker.

This summer I also got a patagonia sunshade hoodie and I've been using it as a very light soft shell/base layer hybrid for uphill travel. It is very breathable for the amont of wind protection it provides and using the hood and stuffing gloves/hat in the big sweatshirt style pocket are nice to keep comfortable on the fly... probably not great for the wet though.

[Big Steve]

Dromond's questions re using MH Transition Jacket (hoodie) next-to-skin:
Is the idea that is gets damp and warm under there and you start sweating?

Edit: I meant that the dampness makes you STOP sweating. Yes to the edit, i.e., you'll sweat less in a next-to-skin VB or semi-VB if you properly use them. (Yeah, I know that sounds counterintuitive, but that's the conclusion I've reached after 25 years of experiementation with VBs and semi-VBs).

With semi-VB's (e.g., MH Transition hoodie Jacket): As you start to skin or hike and feel insensitive sweat start to form, take off the hood. Vent with the zipper as necessary to avoid sweating. When you stop for a break, zip up and put the hood back on, as necessary to stay warm. For longer stops in colder temps, layer over with light eVent shell or equivalent for breaks and downhills and any moisture on the Transition (again, worn next-to-skin) will quickly bake out.

IME, this systems works better (i.e., sweat less, dries faster, avoids getting other layers wet with sweat) than any silkweight/fishnet/lightweight base layer + windshell combo. Again, note that I am a heavy sweater. Silkweight + eVent seems work fine for light sweaters and some moderate sweaters.

I won't discuss here full on VBs, which are a different animal.

[Lindahl]

The North Face Nimble jacket is a really thin lightweight breathable softshell, really cheap too.

I've been trying it out instead of my Montane windbreaker (which is too damn noisy). The Montane windbreaker and Patagonia Houdini are pretty similar in terms of protection and breathability - thinner than a softshell jacket, so less insulation, but less breathable as well (can be a plus).

[Big Steve]

Houdini over silkweight Capeline + sweaty drippy mess for me

[Jhaus]

Marmot ROM (http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-rom-softshell-jacket-mens) REI clearance @$120

While i initially had planned to steer clear of windstopper, the hybrid construction of the ROM with large panels under arm and solid reviews attesting to their effectiveness have me convinced enough to make it the ultimate winner. Clearance price was a solid plus as well.


I scored one of these NWT at a second-hand store for the absurd price of $30. I've only gotten really sweaty in it a handful of times so far, but it's been awesome. I wouldn't want to wear it while skinning in 30+ degrees and sun, but it's perfect for any conditions requiring more than a baselayer. I love the hood, but it won't fit anything bigger than a slim climbing helmet with my too-large head. The seam construction on mine is a little below Marmot's usual standards, but it's mostly aesthetic. For $120 it's a steal if it fits you right.

[COBuckeye]

I too am a sweaty mess while skinning. I have used soft shells with Windstopper, but these don't breathe like I need. I am looking for a soft shell with the following: Hood, light weight, no Windstopper, slim cut (I'm 6'2", 165lbs), high collar, and pit zips, not black. So far, I like the Arc'teryx Gamma MX Hoody and the OR Motto, but I think the front runner is the Marmot Kingpin http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-kingpin-softshell-jacket-mens. Anyone have any experience with the Kingpin? Any other jackets I should consider?

[TripleT]

bump this thread looking for any new opinions, experiences, etc had this season? what are people liking the most? others sticking with their tried and true?

[Kai]

Patagonia Houdini.

3 ounces.

I never use my heavy softshell any more for skiing.

[Ski to Be]

You can't go wrong with most of the suggestions. Shells are so good now. I have had the best luck with Marmot and Arctyrex. It depends on the conditions. I wear a patagonia capiline base layer and that is it and have a spare dry one to change into at the top. I just add a super light shell if it is raining/snowing. I have the Alpha SV Arcteryx and I love it. Also Arcteryx stuff is pricey but it is bulletproof. You will get tired of the jacket before the jacket gets tired.

[XXX-er]

Windstopper Active next-to-skin works best for the sweatiest of the sweaty. I'm a ubersweaty Viking and I've been wearing a MH Transition Jacket hoodie next-to-skin for the past three touring seasons. Works great from 5F to 40F when moving (e.g., skinning, hiking, scrambling) so long as I use the zipper to vent. During breaks I layer over it and it quickly bakes dry. Best touring base layer I've ever used by a mile. People can't figure out how to use next-to-skin stuff so MH quit making it. Fuck.

Based on what steve has written in the past I been doing more with less this season so at asulkan hut it was -30C and I was wearing a patagonnia acsenstionist with 1 smart wool base layer and I was fine of course the big puffy went on soon as I stopped

then for a rando event where I did 10,000ft over nite in temps between freezing and -10C I tried wearing JUST the ascentionist with no base layer and I was definatley warm enough & more comfy

unfortunatley the acsenionist whjich I truly loved shit the bed when I washed it last week ... all the seams fell apart

[hopelesslyadolescent]

In the Sierra, I rarely need more than a thin base layer (prefer merino zip-neck) and a very light windshirt. Used to use Marmot DriClime, but prefer a thin, stretchy softshell like the Stoic Microlith pullover. Very thin, lightweight, breathes great, keeps the wind and light moisture off and tough as nails. I have a variety of softshell jackets of varying thickness and windproofness, but when I'm climbing the windshirt is usually all that's necessary, then can pull something insulated on when stopping or on top of the ridge.

[bbense]

bump this thread looking for any new opinions, experiences, etc had this season? what are people liking the most? others sticking with their tried and true?

I bought the Westcomb hybrid jacket ( Schoeller Dryskin with Event shoulders )

http://www.rei.com/product/804461/we...:referralID=NA

I haven't had the chance to test it in a really big dump, but for everything else I really like it. It provides just enough extra windbreak w/o compromising breathablity.

[JRainey]

I got the arcteryx gamma sl hybrid, for spring touring and it's been pretty nice. It's lighter weight than almost any other option beside the houdini or something like that. Stretch woven on the shoulders and outer arms, then slightly stretchy nylon wind breaker material everywhere else. Not the best when wet snow is falling, but for everything else it's fine.

I wanted something I could wear over a base layer to beat wind and snow while skinning, but not get sweaty. I didn't want vents, I just wanted breathable material. This works perfectly for what I need. It cuts 80%-90% of wind with a base layer on. The uber stretch in the shoulders and arms is great for movement. I've been crashing through tree branching for three weeks and it's doing fine. I even had a bout with some razor sharp boulders that turned out fine.

It's expensive for what it is, but I did a lot of research and it was hard to find: Light (13oz), non-fleeced, stretchy. So i'm pretty happy with the purchase.

[auvgeek]

I bought the Westcomb hybrid jacket ( Schoeller Dryskin with Event shoulders )

http://www.rei.com/product/804461/we...:referralID=NA

I haven't had the chance to test it in a really big dump, but for everything else I really like it. It provides just enough extra windbreak w/o compromising breathablity. This has been my go-to ski jacket for the past few years. It was a huge step up from my full gore-tex jacket - first time I fully understood that you could wear less, sweat less, and be warmer (ETA: I rarely wear this skinning up, just in the resort or skiing down). Really love it, but I'd probably go with the neoshell if I were buying new - lighter and supposedly more weatherproof. The Spectre LT is a very similar (technical) fit while the Apoc is a little baggier. (I'm 5'11", 165# and usually wear a medium.)

The Skeena has a thin layer of merino wool as a lining. I would not be my choice if I were going for Big Steve's approach (which I'd like to try out, incidentally).

Edit: Only con is the back can get a bit cold if you're not wearing a backpack and it's windy.

[mposa]

mammut ultimate softshell hoody has awesome ventilation (elbow to hem zips).

Seconded. Love this jacket for breathability. The windstopper fabric is not very water resistant, however.

[hopelesslyadolescent]

Can't beat the hybrids for cold, stormy, windy days. I have hybrids from Arcteryx, Westcomb, and Patagonia, and they're much better in the Sierra than a hardshell. W/B shoulders, arms and hoods keep them from wetting out and the softshell bodies breathe so much better. Best of both worlds unless it's nearly raining. All three are different, though. Patagonia is much burlier, tighter softshell weave, so it's my usual resort shell. Westcomb is the lightest, so I use it in the bc on storm days. But most days in the Sierra, a thin base layer and light but tightly woven windshirt does the trick, even if it's cold.

[JRainey]

Seconded. Love this jacket for breathability. The windstopper fabric is not very water resistant, however.

It's not really that breathable either. You could say obsolete, but some people don't want even a tickle from the wind.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Could anyone comment on the breathability of Nylon (Patagonia) vs. Polyester (Marmot) windshirts? I use a Driclime vest as much as any piece of clothing, but recent string of windy, 32 degree and snowing days had me wanting something with sleeves, a hood and no insulation.

[North]

Bumping for spring '13.

I'm looking for something to replace my Flylow Kung Fu for spring touring. I was never overly impressed with the Fu, but it worked well enough when I was low on funds in college.

Unlike most in this thread I don't run particularly hot or cold, probably in the middle. FWIW my winter jacket is GoreTex ProShell. I usually wear this over a thin baselayer and a cashmere midlayer. Works for me for 90% of CO winter tours. On the up pits zips and front zip are mostly open, no hat.

I was originally thinking NeoShell, based on some of Lou D's reviews of the Westcomb Shift and good reviews on the Rab Stretch Neo, but it sounds like Neo is just a better breathing hardshell fabric?

I picked up a Westcomb Focus LT (eVent DVL) on a whim, but it seems pretty thin - worried about durability.

Any fabrics or specific jackets I should be looking at?

[Lindahl]

Outdoor Research Ferrosi is my mild weather softshell. Kickass jacket. About as light and breathable as it gets. I like the Marmot Tempo for a winter or winter-like spring softshell, since more layers can fit under it. Not a fan of Windstopper, Powershield or other membrane softshells. I'd rather just layer a fleece under the Tempo, or a well-vented hardshell. Lighter and more flexible.