Feedback needed... light mtb rims that are stronger than you think

[backcountry1pr]

Backstory- I have been riding a pair of CB Iodine's on a Banshee Spitfire for the last two seasons. Love these wheels, and I don't seem myself getting rid of them, but in the 2x years I have had them, I have barely put a hop or ding in them (but they are pretty stout to being with). That tells me I could likely get away riding something lighter weight, which I would like to try.

I'm looking for recommendations on more cross country oriented rims that folks have found to be stronger or more resilient than their "classification" would lead you to believe.

Stuff that has stood out in looking so far-


Carbon is out of my price range
I will likely need to build from the ground up because I use a 20mm t/a
the Sun Ringle Black Flag wheelset looks pretty ideal for this experiment... low cost, light weight (~1600), 20mm compatible.
I am not super concerned about having a rim with an "am" wide internal width, but the wider the better
I like wheels with a higher spoke tension generally speaking
I would like to try to come in under the ~1600g mark, and spend ~$600 or less IF possible


Anyone have some recommendations, or rims they have had good luck with?

[creaky fossil]

Really depends more on the builder and his/her attention to detail, skill, patience, etc than the rim itself.

I've heard people say velocity rims are soft, but I had good luck with Velocity Blunts for light and wide rims. Of course if you shave legs and watch BPM with a vengeance, the Blunt is probably too wide and not light enough.

Most recent wheelbuild has Stan's Flow rims and they seem fine after maybe 15-17 rides before the ground got white and slippery.

[donkeykong]

stans arch...420 grams, saves 50g over the flows and still super strong, wide footprint, tubeless if desired but never pinch flats w/ tubes (for me, never)

[Dickeymotto]

819's: 450g and bomber

/end of thread

[toast2266]

I've been contemplating a similar decision. My main concern with lighter rims isn't so much the ultimate durability, but I think when you start getting into lighter wheels, you lose a lot of stiffness. I definitely notice lighter wheels flex a lot more in corners and get deflected more easily by roots and rocks. You lose a lot of the "plow through everything" feel of a stout wheelset. But it sure is nice to cut down on rotating weight.

[cooltsi]

I'm running the Sun Ringle chargers with a 20mm TA on a Reign and really like them. As I recall they came with the Jumping flea hubs, no issues to date althoug they were right around 1700 for the set.

[ACHTUNG]

Another vote for Stans Arch

[backcountry1pr]

819's: 450g and bomber

/end of thread

my issue there is, by the time you get them built up, your looking at about 1800-1850g as far as I can tell, which, with the iodine's sitting right around 1900g, isn't really a very cost effective/drastic change


I've been contemplating a similar decision. My main concern with lighter rims isn't so much the ultimate durability, but I think when you start getting into lighter wheels, you lose a lot of stiffness. I definitely notice lighter wheels flex a lot more in corners and get deflected more easily by roots and rocks. You lose a lot of the "plow through everything" feel of a stout wheelset. But it sure is nice to cut down on rotating weight.

I rode a pair of mavic717's laced to hope II's on a single speed I owned. I was really impressed with just how stiff they did feel, and how well they preformed overall. I rode that bike pretty hard and they held up great. I'm not a "plow through everything" sort of rider myself, so I'm trying to find a lighter wheel set up that still affords me the same level of aggressive riding with perhaps some more maintenance on the back end.

Part of the reason I'm so hesitant about stans wheels is it seems like they are laced with a lower spoke tension, and that coupled with a lighter duty rim would seem to be a flexy combo. That and I watched Dside blow up a pair of flows over the course of a year.

[backcountry1pr]

I'm running the Sun Ringle chargers with a 20mm TA on a Reign and really like them. As I recall they came with the Jumping flea hubs, no issues to date althoug they were right around 1700 for the set.

Yeah, I have seem them hold up and do well also, which is why I'm thinking about the Black Flags. Really like the price/weight of those. To justify another set of wheels I really need a fairly dramatic step down in weight.

[scottyb]

My Stans 355 hoops are light and strong being the go to wheels on my 650Beasley.

[cooltsi]

Yeah, I have seem them hold up and do well also, which is why I'm thinking about the Black Flags. Really like the price/weight of those. To justify another set of wheels I really need a fairly dramatic step down in weight.
Mine are the first generation chargers, Equalizer 27 rims

The charger pros are 1699g http://www.sun-ringle.com/mtb/wheelsets/charger-pro/

[marshalolson]

wtb tcs rims are pretty rad. there are XC, trail and DH versions.

light, strong, and UST bead.


FWIW, i have hope/dt comps/wtb FR 23mm internal wheel set on the trail bike @ 1850g, and would be more like 1650g with their 21mm trail bike rim.


edit - wtb. sorry. bad typing.

[jetski]

^^^ I'm an idiot... I googled WBT thinking I'm missing out on some wicked rim company. Goes to show I don't have much WTB product or know much about it.

[beaterdit]

I've been running Stan's Arches laced to Hope ProIIs that Marshal :yourock: built up for me for 2 1/2 seasons now. Most recently on a stout six inch bike that sees a lot of jumps, drops, Super-D racing on rocky terrain. They've held up amazingly for what they are and I found them stiffer than my old Crossmax.

I hear you on the spoke tension thing though, I typically used to run higher tension too and I bet I could be on a stiffer wheel. Still though, the overall duability and ease of setup has me sold on Stan's.

[chinawholesale]

stans arch...420 grams, saves 50g over the flows and still super strong, wide footprint, tubeless if desired but never pinch flats w/ tubes (for me, never)

[willmtbike4food]

Velocity has a Blunt SL now that is tubeless ready, and shaves some weight from the standard Blunts. I haven't ridden the SL's, but the original Blunts were a relatively stiff rim for their weight. They'll be able to withstand higher spoke tensions than Stan's rims, too.

Stan's Arch is stiffer than the 355. So is their Crest, but it may be a little too flimsy. It's definitely an xc rim. Maybe in 26" it wouldn't be quite as noticeable as if it were a 29, but I'd guess you'll want stiffer than the Crest.

Spokes and nipples are a great way to cut down on rotating weight as well. Having a budget of $600 is a great way to take advantage of that, too. Titanium nipples are stronger and lighter, and eliminate the fear of breaking an alloy nipple (www.titanwheeltech.com). Marwi is still making titanium spokes as well. May sound ridiculous, but at $3 each, you could have spokes and nipples covered for 2 wheels at about $200. That leaves $200 for new rims, and $200 to pick up a set of high quality used hubs. Add more for labor, unless ou were planning on doing it yourself. But still, may not be too outrageous.

Maybe a bit more down-to-earth would be wheel smith 2.0-1.7 spokes. Lighter than DT Competition, without breaking the bank.

[flowtron's ghost]

If was spending $$ on spokes I'd go with Sapim CXRays.

We've had good luck with the Blunt SLs. Velocity is a company to watch. They are moving production to Florida in Feb and their product is solid. I feel like they have a good grasp on what is going on with wheels and rims right now....whereas Mavic is about 3 years off the back unfortunately.

[Bosco]

As others have said, I'd also look at stans rims. Using there hubs I think you can match your price point. Plus, you can go tubeless.

I went with Flows and Hadley hubs. On the bomber side, but very nice.

[kiwibob]

819's: 450g and bomber

/end of thread

450g is the weight without inserts, add about 60g for the inserts. Don't get me wrong, I run 'em and love 'em, but they ain't that light...

[Hicks]

I would not be afraid of going with the Stans Crest if paired with rigid spokes and at least 32 holes.

My wheelset of Crests, Hopes and DT Comp is really stout and comes in at 1570 g (weight checked myself fwiw). Spokewise Sapim Race would be the alternative. That said I'd definitely stay away from CX-Rays or DT Aerolites for that purpose, you stand a good chance to end up trueing more often than you would like.
The Hopes can be switched or ordered up front with 12/15 mm axles which nicely adds stiffness.

[Yeah!]

Hope ProII to Stan's Crest or Arches will be a pretty light and stout. I usually use DT competition spokes and brass nipples because they're cheap and I don't care about using something lighter, but some super comps and alloy nipples would save you 100 grams or so.

[Yeah!]

I would not be afraid of going with the Stans Crest if paired with rigid spokes and at least 32 holes.

If using Stan's rims, 32 holes is the only option. Only the 29" flows are available in 32 or 36 hole.

[funkendrenchman]

Maybe this one? http://www.amclassic.com/en/products/mtbwheels/allmountaindisc.php

[ACHTUNG]

You really should consider Stans arch rims laced to Hadley hubs using DT Swiss Competition spokes. You can get the wheelset with the 20mm front thru-axle from rbikes.com for $780.00. Give them a call, they seem to know their shit and have decent prices.

[backcountry1pr]

Some good advice in here... thanks

So, narrowed it down to three options I think.

#1-'12 Black Flag Pro-Light, cheap, prob not going to last a long time
#2-'12 Mavic Crossmax St's- Light, strong, will hold up well, but more $ then I want to spend
#3- Custom set. I don't know how to build wheels, and don't have a shop I always go to. Someone want to build me a wheelset? Ha. Anyways. Hope Pro II Evo hubs 20mm front 135 bolt on rear, Velocity Blunt SL rims 32hole tubeless, Dt Swiss Competition Double butted spokes, titan wheel technologies ti nipples- Seems like it would be light, tubeless ready, realistically strong, nice components.

[Roxtar]

What kind of riding?
For XC, I ran Leadville, bombing the rocky DH sections as fast as the bike would roll (yea, I'm one of those guys), on silly light Stans Olympics mounted to Hadleys and they never blinked.
Stayed as straight as the minute I pulled them off the truing stand.

[ACHTUNG]

#3- Custom set. I don't know how to build wheels, and don't have a shop I always go to. Someone want to build me a wheelset? Ha. Anyways. Hope Pro II Evo hubs 20mm front 135 bolt on rear, Velocity Blunt SL rims 32hole tubeless, Dt Swiss Competition Double butted spokes, titan wheel technologies ti nipples- Seems like it would be light, tubeless ready, realistically strong, nice components.

Option 3 is my vote. Hope's over Hadley's? Really? If you can, save an extra few bucks and go with the Hadley's if you have a custom wheelset built.

[willmtbike4food]

Option 3 is my vote. Hope's over Hadley's? Really? If you can, save an extra few bucks and go with the Hadley's if you have a custom wheelset built.

Option 3 is definitely my vote, too. You'll get a lot more strength out of a well built properly tensioned wheel compared to a prebuilt set.

As far as I'm aware, Hadley hubs are quite a bit more expensive than Hope. And as much as I like Hadley hubs, I like that Hope are quite a bit easier to get replacement parts for.

[marshalolson]

http://www.ridemonkey.com/classifieds/cat-9/ad-20097/

[backcountry1pr]

Bumping this thread. Still shopping till spring. Has anyone spent any time on the Spank oozy rim?

The Spike Race Evo is really what I *need*, but does not save me any weight over what I have currently.

[rludes025]

These caught my attention the other day.
Pacenti TL28 (http://www.bikelugs.com/store/index.php?strWebAction=item_detail&intItemID=342)

[Ahrenv]

I like my atomlabs.. I have an old set on my dj that are the general issue. On my xc I have the newer gi26 wheels, and on my fullie I have the pimps... They are duper strong... And always seem strait and true. Just my pov!

[Canada Guy]

I rode the Black Flag Pros all of last season on my xc/am bike and I was super impressed with them. They were run tubeless with Nobby Nics and the Stans goop for the full season and I never had any issues with burping, although I did get a bit of air loss from the valve stems that came with the rims. I just never could seem to get them tight enough until I put some locktite on the nut that holds the stem in place.

The hubs seem super tough as well and are rolling as good as day one. My only beef with the wheelset (as with most machine built wheelsets) is that the spoke tension did not seem even out of the box. There were a couple of looser spokes which led to my rear wheel getting mildly out of true after just a few rides. However, a quick trip to my LBS to get everything re-tensioned fixed things up nicely.

One wierd issue I had was that when I switched to the Black Flags I got the horrible howl from my Elixrs. Strangely enough as soon as I had the spokes re-tensioned it completely went away. I think the freqency that the rotors were reverberating at was amplified through the spokes such that the whole wheel was resonating.

Despite the few minor issues I had I would definitely reccomend these wheels, and I would definitely buy them again. I only wish there was a bit better quality control out of the factory on the spoke tension.

[creaky fossil]

As far as I'm aware, Hadley hubs are quite a bit more expensive than Hope. And as much as I like Hadley hubs, I like that Hope are quite a bit easier to get replacement parts for.

Well that really is an academic issue until you need replacement parts for your Hadley and I've never needed any because I've never had any break. The basic parts like axles are as easy to get as the same parts for a Hope. If your Hope hope blows up like many of my friends' Hopes have, Hope will want you to return it if it's a warranty Q, so that's not really any easier than Hadley.

Crank Bros pedals are easy to get replacement parts for, as well. Why is that? Because they blow up more often!

I've run Hopes and Hadleys and will continue to stick with Hadley. I think the "easy replacement parts" is a red herring. If for some reason you need odd parts for your Hadley, all you have to do is call Hadley, or contact one of these 3 fairly high-volume (relative term, I know) Hadley hub sellers: Go-Ride (http://www.go-ride.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=BY+MANUFACTURER:HADLEY&gclid=CPG907Tu3K0CFTOCtgodd3isnA), Universal Cycles (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=735), or Balle Racing (http://www.balleracing.com/Hadley/Hadley_Hubs.htm).

Not trying to be an e-dick, just saying that the idea of "easy replacement parts" is a red herring where Hope vs Hadley is concerned, if you know how to get the parts.

Also, concerns over weight in rear hubs is another red herring. I don't know anyone who feels a pedaling effort difference where Hope vs Hadley hub weight is concerned.

[backcountry1pr]

These caught my attention the other day.
Pacenti TL28 (http://www.bikelugs.com/store/index.php?strWebAction=item_detail&intItemID=342)

Those look slick. So light! I wonder if the strength/weight ratio is good. Couldn't tell on the site, and idea if they are tubeless ready? Wheels with no holes in the inner rim please me.


I like my atomlabs.. I have an old set on my dj that are the general issue. On my xc I have the newer gi26 wheels, and on my fullie I have the pimps... They are duper strong... And always seem strait and true. Just my pov!

Looked into those, and they look stout. I just don't think they would be any light when the build was done than what I have now.


I rode the Black Flag Pros all of last season on my xc/am bike and I was super impressed with them. They were run tubeless with Nobby Nics and the Stans goop for the full season and I never had any issues with burping, although I did get a bit of air loss from the valve stems that came with the rims. I just never could seem to get them tight enough until I put some locktite on the nut that holds the stem in place.

The hubs seem super tough as well and are rolling as good as day one. My only beef with the wheelset (as with most machine built wheelsets) is that the spoke tension did not seem even out of the box. There were a couple of looser spokes which led to my rear wheel getting mildly out of true after just a few rides. However, a quick trip to my LBS to get everything re-tensioned fixed things up nicely.

One wierd issue I had was that when I switched to the Black Flags I got the horrible howl from my Elixrs. Strangely enough as soon as I had the spokes re-tensioned it completely went away. I think the freqency that the rotors were reverberating at was amplified through the spokes such that the whole wheel was resonating.

Despite the few minor issues I had I would definitely reccomend these wheels, and I would definitely buy them again. I only wish there was a bit better quality control out of the factory on the spoke tension.

That's good to hear. Initially I was super interested in these because they were on my proform, but no longer are. Sounds like I should keep any eye out anyways however.

[willmtbike4food]

Well that really is an academic issue until you need replacement parts for your Hadley and I've never needed any because I've never had any break. The basic parts like axles are as easy to get as the same parts for a Hope. If your Hope hope blows up like many of my friends' Hopes have, Hope will want you to return it if it's a warranty Q, so that's not really any easier than Hadley.

Crank Bros pedals are easy to get replacement parts for, as well. Why is that? Because they blow up more often!

I've run Hopes and Hadleys and will continue to stick with Hadley. I think the "easy replacement parts" is a red herring. If for some reason you need odd parts for your Hadley, all you have to do is call Hadley, or contact one of these 3 fairly high-volume (relative term, I know) Hadley hub sellers: Go-Ride (http://www.go-ride.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=BY+MANUFACTURER:HADLEY&gclid=CPG907Tu3K0CFTOCtgodd3isnA), Universal Cycles (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=735), or Balle Racing (http://www.balleracing.com/Hadley/Hadley_Hubs.htm).

Not trying to be an e-dick, just saying that the idea of "easy replacement parts" is a red herring where Hope vs Hadley is concerned, if you know how to get the parts.

Also, concerns over weight in rear hubs is another red herring. I don't know anyone who feels a pedaling effort difference where Hope vs Hadley hub weight is concerned.

Don't get me wrong - Hadley makes great hubs, and I know a few people who have been very happy with theirs.

The biggest problem I have with Hadley is how difficult it is to get a hold of them, and their relatively small distribution network in the US. Hope are available through the same channels as Hadley, plus many many more. It's a lot easier for an independent bicycle shop to source Hope small parts through their regular distributors than Hadley. If there's a need to get a hold of the manufacturer directly, it's a lot easier to call Hope than it is Hadley - Hope is listed in the BRAIN directory, Hadley isn't. Hope has a website with easy to find contact information, Hadley doesn't have a website at all. I realize that there are sources for Hadley parts, but if you're not familiar with rebuilding a hub, and are wanting a shop to do it, it'll be a lot less painless for them to do it with a Hope than a Hadley.

As far as rear (or front...) hub weight goes, I agree, it's not going to make a substantial change to the moment of inertia of the wheel. Decreasing your unsprung weight will improve your suspension performance though, so there are advantages in that regard.