Need Advice on a Binding Train Wreck

[jslee]

I had a pair of small Dukes mounted on 183 Bent Chetlers in LCC toward the end of last season - 293mm BSL at the team line. I just took them off planning to install inserts, and found a sloppy disaster underneath. Here's a quick highlight, with detailed pictures below:

- 3 extra holes on both sides for the toe piece, all ptex'd in
- four helicoiled holes for the right heel piece, with one helicoil installed about 1-2mm too deep into the ski
- two helicoiled holes for the left heel piece, both in holes about 1mm short of correct depth, and one in a teardrop-shaped hole that has about 1mm of extra lateral space to one corner

Extra toe holes aren't a big deal, but I'm at a complete loss on the heel holes. These helicoils look wider than the inserts to start, and even if I were to keep the helicoils and install inserts in just the two regular holes, one of the left helicoils is in a hole that looks big enough to rip out on a rough landing.

Any suggestions?

Left Heel (teardrop-shaped hole on top left of picture)
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?w=800&h=0&crop=false&i=http://media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/75233/photos/PHOTO_15334788_75233_21444380_ap_730X550.jpg

Right Heel
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?w=800&h=0&crop=false&i=http://media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/75233/photos/PHOTO_15334795_75233_21444380_ap_730X550.jpg

Left Toe
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?w=800&h=0&crop=false&i=http://media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/75233/photos/PHOTO_15334780_75233_21444380_ap_730X550.jpg

Right Toe
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?w=800&h=0&crop=false&i=http://media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/75233/photos/PHOTO_15334784_75233_21444380_ap_730X550.jpg

[skimaxpower]

Talk to the shop. Ask them to help you make it right.

Give them an opportunity to find a reasonable fix. Clearly the skis aren't "destroyed" - you rode them all last year. But clearly you also didn't get the service you deserved. Maybe they can hook you up with some new gear to make up for their mistake.

On the upside, since you were going to install inserts, the helicoils aren't really a problem. You were going to have to widen the holes anyway. The real problem is the three extra holes (and the failure to communicate their screw up.)

[jslee]

Will definitely talk to the shop on Monday. Thanks to some airline mishaps, I only had a day on them last season and wouldn't really say it was an indication that I could rely on the mount with confidence. The teardrop-shaped hole on the left heel actually worries me a lot.

Doesn't seem like keeping the helicoils in and adding inserts to the remaining holes is an option... And from what I can tell, the helicoils are about the same width as inserts so I couldn't really remove them and drill wider either. Is the only option to drill a new set of holes shifted a few cm?

[jslee]

On a slightly unrelated but positive note, I got the inserts and the installation kit from Binding Freedom and installed them on another pair of skis with no issues whatsoever. I have no experience mounting bindings and it really couldn't have been easier. Had an endless list of dumbass gaper questions for Jon and he was both helpful and patient.

[jondrums]

You've got a few options for repair:
A) remove the helicoils, tap for inserts, install them with a quality epoxy (72 hour would be good). There's at least one person who ended up installing inserts into clearance holes with epoxy and they've held up fine. If you end up with problems doing this, see B
B) Fill the old holes and move the bindings up or back by 1.5cm
C) dynaduke plates

[jslee]

Thanks for the tips, will try option A. Are there any tricks for loosening up the epoxy on the helicoils without damaging the core of the skis? I can't really make sense of the chemistry behind the acetone theory, so I'm guessing that's a wives' tale.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ heat them up with a soldering iron.

[TwinTipFlip]

Go talk to the shop, for real this has happened before and many people would say that the shop owes you new skis.

[jondrums]

I have to say that although I don't like it, helicoiling is a fairly reasonable way for a shop to fix a screwed up mount. Ideally, the shop would mention this to you when you picked up your skis. Personally, I would like my shop to call me the minute the screw-up occured and ask me what they should do (I vastly prefer the tap-in repair plugs in this case). That's probably asking too much, so I do my own mounts.

With this much time passed, its worth bringing in to your shop, but don't expect to get anything out of it except maybe an apology.

[jondrums]

Another possibility is to use helicoils when installing the inserts in those holes. Supplies are now available to do this - see here:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/214337-Quiver-Killer-spinner-advice?p=3421073#post3421073

[mcwatt]

thats unacceptable. I bet I can guess which shop it was

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

thats unacceptable. I bet I can guess which shop it was

Were your bindings mounted by an angry drunken gorilla?

[hutash]

With this much time passed, its worth bringing in to your shop, but don't expect to get anything out of it except maybe an apology.

Time shouldn't matter, since they intentionally hid (or at least didn't notify him about) the problem. It is not like he would know unless he took of the binders, which most people don't. The shop was hoping nobody would ever know about it. Personally I would ask for replacement skis. Sure it was an honest mistake, but there were multiple mistakes, and most importantly a deliberate attempt to cover it up.

[jslee]

Thanks for all the pointers so far. Been kiting down south for the past few weeks so I haven't had a chance to tinker with them yet. The 30-knot winds down there did a pretty good job of keeping me from going ape shit over these planks. I did talk to the shop recently and the head tech agreed to do whatever he could to fix them, which unfortunately means no resolution for at least a month until I can make it back out to LCC. Really itching to try a DIY fix but the shop butchered these so much I just can't let them off that easily. I don't know if a gorilla mounted these, but looking at the heel piece holes, they were definitely drunk and angry.

[PNWbrit]

new skis.....

[Chowda]

Wow, the tech must have mounted them, whilst a ball sack tea bagged him in they eyes.

Usually, I find these "a shop fucked up my mount" threads a bit unreasonable. In this case, the manager should point you to a wall of skis, and ask what you'd like.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

I'm always amazed at how skiers will equate ski service work such as binding mounting with something like a hotwax.
One scrapes right off.... And one drills into your new skis with power equipment!!! Do your homework, there's a LOT of "hackery" going on in ski shops!!!

[mikemcee]

Out the shop. I do my own mounts and have outed myself a few times but I've also had work done in the LCC...I'd like to know who butchered your skis so I can avoid them.

[weasel1]

+1 on Jondrums' suggestion. Have the shop (err..someone ELSE in the shop) install the inserts with Jon's heli coils, while you watch. Then, they owe you some good will.

[marcusling]

These shops let guys drill 800$ pieces of equiptment(our skis) and pay them minimum wage,and a couple proforms. The shop owner needs to know that his decission to be a tight-ass is going to cost him in the end. Take your skis in,tell him to put yours in his demo line.Take your new bards somewhere else.If your steak is overcooked send the fucker back!

[pdogandyboy]

Take your boards to a shop that guarantees their work. Mark the skis with them, and verify your mounting points. Mistakes are a part of being human, but being able to admit to a customer you made a mistake is a trait many shops do not posess. They should give you a new pair and put yours in the demo fleet. Always leave your contact info, if they have a question, they SHOULd call. That's my piece.

[1000-oaks]

Usually, I find these "a shop fucked up my mount" threads a bit unreasonable.

+1.

But in this case, the helicoil OD might be too big to bump up to inserts and make the bad mount disappear. Just depends if the helicoils are larger than 1/4" OD or not. If they are bigger, new skis or some compensation and a remount fore/aft of the bad mount are probably the only options. If they're smaller, redrilling to 1/4" and dropping in inserts will make the bad mount like it never happened.