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Skirotica
03-08-2011, 08:06 AM
did a search. Didn't find this right away. Got frustrated, so I started a new thread. apologies.

I understand and respect the value of brakes. I use them on all of my skis. But I was thinking about the $75+ additional charge for brakes on Dynafit binders and am open to folks' perspectives on their necessity. I don't plan on losing a ski, but I don't want to deal with the consequences of losing one without brakes either.

Then my thinking gets pretty scary: why can't I affix a leash? telemarkers do it. why can an AT binding support one? Is there an injury factor here that I'm overlooking?

Yes, all of this boils down to the same motives: get it for cheap. $75 bucks is a lot, but it does buy a lot of peace of mind....:redface:

My Pet Powder Goat
03-08-2011, 08:24 AM
I'm running the same setup now, have brakes but won't fit my drifters, its real common to usea leash. I don't usually like coming out of my bindings do i lockout and hope they stay on.

stradissimo
03-08-2011, 08:31 AM
A lot of the cool kids around here run Dynafits with leashes. The head of the Silverton Avalanche School uses leashes. I'm using brakes, but I'm considering ditching them because they make dynafiddles extra fiddly. For instance, you can't do the skin-to-ski transition without taking off your skis if you're running brakes.

brown9
03-08-2011, 08:31 AM
If you go the leash route in avalanche terrain, you run the same risk a telemarker does in not having your skis come off in a slide and being dragged down by them. You also have a tomahawk flying around in the event of a good beater that could cut your face off. I got brakeless, and it's a little sketchy fearing that my ski could glide away at the top of a slope, but it is something that I have to pay attention to. I would go with leashes on spring/summer glacier travel.

Scottish_Skier
03-08-2011, 08:45 AM
Transitions from uphill to downhill are when your most likely to lose a ski - but even with brakes you still need to be careful. Dynafits brakes only engage if they heel is rotated into downhill mode. So you still need to remember to rotate the heel before taking skins off... Basically with any dynafit system you need a little healthy paranoia to prevent runaway skis.

For touring going brake-less isn't a big deal (so long as you have a short leash that can be used when stepping into the skis and are sensible). For resort skiing however I can see a bigger benefit to brakes as it allows faster step in / out ?

Quadzilla
03-08-2011, 08:54 AM
My call is this, I don't use brakes. Simple reason is that BC travel means skiing in deep snow and if you lose your skis in deep snow due to a release you may have great difficulty finding it. So being stuck postholing back to the trailhead in hip deep snow can be a crisis especially if you are miles in. As far as AVY concerns, I have a breakaway system on my leashes that I use in AVY terrain as well as nonbreakaway attachment too. I have on two occasions been in a group where a skier lost a ski and believe me it isn't fun. IMO.

Arno
03-08-2011, 08:54 AM
I use TLT speeds (no brakes) on my lightweight touring setup. I found Dynafit brakes annoying in that they make it more difficult to change the heel settings and the brakes don't always engage when they should (maybe because I am a jong and didn't have them set up properly?). Anyway, I like the setup and wouldn't look to go back to having brakes unless I was using Dynafits extensively for resort skiing.

I don't use Dynafit leashes. I have tied a loop of thin cord to the toepiece of the binding and a G3 telemark leash attached to one of the buckles of my boots. You just clip the leash to the cord so minimal dynafiddling

gregL
03-08-2011, 09:41 AM
I stopped using Dynafit brakes years ago. They never deployed that reliably, and added a lot of weight and friction to an otherwise minimalist and elegant device.

I use BD clipwire leashes, sometimes with 3mm zipties when I feel the need, and some accessory cord girth-hitched through the toe lever. For powder tours I usually go with nothing.

Big Steve
03-08-2011, 09:46 AM
Like Greg, I haven't used Dynafit brakes in years. They interfere with smooth mode changes and sometimes don't deploy (although both of these issues are somewhat abated by removing one of the two springs). I long used short DIY leashes but I now use B&D leashes (http://www.bndskigear.com/skileash.html)

Skirotica
03-08-2011, 09:54 AM
If you go the leash route in avalanche terrain, you run the same risk a telemarker does in not having your skis come off in a slide and being dragged down by them. You also have a tomahawk flying around in the event of a good beater that could cut your face off. I got brakeless, and it's a little sketchy fearing that my ski could glide away at the top of a slope, but it is something that I have to pay attention to. I would go with leashes on spring/summer glacier travel.


I knew this. And overlooked it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I am, however, east coast near coastal mountain ranges where avy threat is severe after a snowfall, but only for a brief period of time. So I can likely count on low avy threat for the majority of my tours (different story if I move out west).

Thanks for the perspectives. It helps and at least makes me feel more comfortable about possibly just piece mealing my setup. Worst case scenario, I rely on my Fritschis for another season till I'm thoroughly dissatisfied with their performance.

peterslovo
03-08-2011, 10:08 AM
I run a regular telemark leash from the toe piece of the dynafit to a light key chain ring attached to my lowest boot buckle; the idea being the light key chain ring will pull/snap in a really bad tumble or if caught in an avy. Cheap, too. Leashes $18.99, packs of key chain rings $1.99. So far so good.

harpo-the-skier
03-08-2011, 03:40 PM
What PS said about the key rings, except I use them with B&D leashes. I have had key rings deform and release when tugged hard. The zip tie sytem with tubbing supplied with the B&D leashes is too fragile; I was replacing the zip ties every couple of days and that was with the buryl ones.

telelebowski
03-08-2011, 05:04 PM
Like Greg, I haven't used Dynafit brakes in years. They interfere with smooth mode changes and sometimes don't deploy (although both of these issues are somewhat abated by removing one of the two springs). I long used short DIY leashes but I now use B&D leashes (http://www.bndskigear.com/skileash.html)

x2 the B&D leashes. Also long enough to make them helpful when trying to fiddle into the bindings on a steep couloir. In my experience, the Dynafit brakes are past worthless: I have watched at least twice as skis with brakes fully deployed have still skittered completely down the mountain, plus they are just a hassle in transitions. The only real downside to the leashes is if you are doing multiple bootpack transitions, sort of a pain.

panchosdad
03-08-2011, 05:14 PM
I use brakes and am happy with them. The transition issue only happens if you're going from ski to tour and not stopping to put your skins on. For me that only seems to happen once a day, usually on the exit when you hit flats again. The deployment issue seems to be solved with the ST 10's. Mine have worked flawlessly over a year of use. It was definitely an issue with Comforts.

I use my skis both at the area and in the backcountry, so having brakes is a real convenience. It makes it easier getting into the bindings (the ski doesn't move around as much) and gives piece of mind about the skis running off.

That's my .02.

Prodigy
03-08-2011, 06:09 PM
Nothing wrong with going brakeless, just make sure you have the silver springs if it's the Vert ST or count on losing some amount of release value with the FT12. Dynafit sells a guide leash and the Speed Classic comes brakeless. Next year's Speed Evo will have the leash from the factory and it's cheaper than the Radical ST (just as the Speed Classic is now).

foreal
03-08-2011, 09:45 PM
Been skiing Dyna's for 6ish years. Due to being a weight wienie, never used brakes. Can't say that I ever wish I had 'em. Use leashes sometimes in the spring.

But, I also ski with the toes locked FWIW.

Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
03-09-2011, 12:39 PM
I used to rock the Vertical ST brakes on my touring skis, but had an incident in a step couloir where the ski popped (I didn't have the toes fully engaged due to snw) and it went about 1,000 vert below. And it was not even hard snow - about a foot of fresh. The brakes literally did nothing.

After that I decided I wanted leashes, but my two main concerns were (i) they needed to reliably break away in an avy as I did not want anything pulling me down and (ii) I didn't want something that would be swinging my skis as essentially a weapon around my face and shins if I were to take a serious fall but they were still attached.

I now use the B&D Ski Leashes and think they work amazing. A couple of notes:

1. They come with 2 weights of zip ties that you put a plastic coating over (so the bindings don't shread them). They are designed to break under certain pressures. Unlike Harpo above, I have not had an issue with these breaking when they shouldn't. I even use the less-strong one. I could rip it if I yanked very hard, so I am comfortable it will break away when needed, but hold when supposed to.

2. The cord attaching to (and around) your boot is essenitially an elasctic material that looks like a phone cord. This is great for a couple of reasons. First, if you were to take a nasty fall, there is about 8 feet of stretch in it so your skis will not be wipping around right next to you and bashing your shins/face/etc.... Second, when putting on skis in a steep couloir or something, you can keep them attached to you, but take them off and stick them in the snow when doing snow stablity, or eating lunch or whatever. They are always attached to you, but you can move around and not be restricted. Third, in the off chance the zip tie (or mod you make - e.g. Harpo) were not to break in a slide or something, the stretch adds a marginal buffer of the ability for the ski to posibly not pull you down.

I think they are a great design and definitely think they are worth considering. They do a better job of keeping your skis around you than brakes, but solve issues of breakaway in avys, etc... Quicker touring transitions too b/c the Dynafit break inhibits that.

Also, I don't ski with the toes locked, so I like the added concept of a leash for all of the reasons above.

Big Steve
03-09-2011, 05:52 PM
Like Harpo, I've had problems with zip ties w/ or w/o tubing, so my B&D leashes are fixed to a key ring which in turn is affixed to a picture hanger gizmo screwed to the ski. (When I used short inelastic leashes, I just couldn't get myself to tie a leash to a binding and expose it to breaking during a yard sale fall.)

Re the zip tie "fuse" connection, I've long wondered if stretchiness of the B&D leash would lessen the impact forces so much that the "fuse" would never pop or pop too late. Think of the B&D leash as a dynamic climbing rope with 300%+ elongation.

Skirotica
03-17-2011, 07:54 AM
So my dynafits came from BC.com yesterday and I was surprised to see that they came with leashes. That was awesome. Also, got a pair of brakes from niyaeva. New question:

Can you slip brakes in after the mount? or do they have to be present at time of mounting? (don't have brakes at the moment to see this for myself). Trying to gauge need to hold off on mount for brakes or just leave them off altogether.

I've seen black diamonds!
03-17-2011, 08:01 AM
It's easier to attach brakes after mounting. See wildsnow.com for detailed directions.

Skirotica
03-17-2011, 08:30 AM
Thanks for the pointer ISBD. How's the doggy?

I've seen black diamonds!
03-17-2011, 08:48 AM
She's good. And she's very excited to be going skiing this weekend.

plugboots
03-17-2011, 10:46 AM
I use these from Dan Bailey's because they're $5.95, (not whatever B&D charges), and connect to a thin zip-tie but will now switch to a cheap key ring, (great idea), that car dealerships keep giving me.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/tomjkennedy/4071-11.jpg

Big Steve
03-17-2011, 11:00 AM
Thanks, plug. $5.95 x 2 = $11.90 per pair, i.e., roughly half what B&D charges for a pair (plus zip ties and plastic hose). How are those holding up for you? I tried a hardware store key chain vinyl coil which kinked up and broke after a dozen or so uses. Looks like the Dan Baileys have a "durable cord" inside the vinyl, unlike the POS hardware store 100% vinyl cross section. I'll give them a try.

plugboots
03-17-2011, 12:31 PM
Very durable, maybe a tad long, but I wrap them around the toe piece. I think I'll put the ring on a top buckle now.

Scotsman50
03-17-2011, 12:51 PM
I use brakes and am happy with them. The transition issue only happens if you're going from ski to tour and not stopping to put your skins on. For me that only seems to happen once a day, usually on the exit when you hit flats again. The deployment issue seems to be solved with the ST 10's. Mine have worked flawlessly over a year of use. It was definitely an issue with Comforts.

I use my skis both at the area and in the backcountry, so having brakes is a real convenience. It makes it easier getting into the bindings (the ski doesn't move around as much) and gives piece of mind about the skis running off.

That's my .02.

^^^^ I agree with this. Hated the brakes on my comforts so on my Drifters I didn't put on brakes and went with BnD ski leash. Seemed like the perfect solution with break away connection for avy terrain. I had a couple of falls( I know, I know.... don't fall) and in both cases( one was on hardpack and the the ski went for a 1000 ft ride, the other in deep pow and ski was left buried and took a long time to find) the leashes could not resist the forces of the fall and broke. I tired strengthening the breakable connection until I was sure it could withstand a fall in deep pow( ski tip buried and skier exerting a force on the tie/ring by falling forwards) and with help from an engineer buddy we worked out that the connection would have to be so strong that release in avalanche could not be guaranteed. In the end I gave up on them and went back to brakes and to my joy have had no problems with the brakes on my Verticals and FT-12's and from my experience, the brake problem was on my comforts. I'm now back to brakes and gave my leashes away and am much happier as I spent a lot of time in the resort and the sidecountry/BC on the same day. The weight of the brakes is negligable for me. Still know a lot of friends who dig the leashes and swear by them though so to each his own.
I

Skirotica
03-18-2011, 08:09 AM
FYI, i got my dynafits in the mail and they actually came with a leash. Was impressed to see that. I did opt for brakes through gear swap but haven't decided if I'll mount them. For my first run I'll go with leashes. Will decided from there.

skifishbum
03-18-2011, 09:21 AM
I'm in the non weight weenie, don't like leashes, or being attached to my skis one the've released, brakes work fine for me camp

I've seen black diamonds!
03-18-2011, 11:52 AM
I swing both ways when it comes to brakes. I like them for skiing trees. Prefer leashes for open, steeper terrain. I've had B&D leases save me from one-ski descents a couple times.

powndnstein
03-19-2011, 02:47 PM
tour and ski with dynafits and the dynafit leash, but hook them up to the heel piece thru the spaces in the plastic riser. didn't like the way they affected the toe piece clamping into tour mode etc.
I'll take my chances with skies attached as thats how we used to ski back in the day before brakes.

Jonathan S.
03-19-2011, 02:54 PM
didn't like the way they affected the toe piece clamping into tour mode etc.
Only if you loop it through the toe lever hole in a way that somehow jams up against the plastic piece. Otherwise, easy to loop it over the top in a secure manner that doesn’t interfere at all with the toe lever operation.

Jonathan S.
03-19-2011, 07:40 PM
I am, however, east coast near coastal mountain ranges where avy threat is severe after a snowfall, but only for a brief period of time. So I can likely count on low avy threat for the majority of my tours [...]
The majority of your tours . . . above treeline in the Presidentials during winter and early spring?!? Or do you have other locations in mind?

SamMc
04-04-2011, 10:08 PM
I personally dont use leashes or brakes (which arent available for the plum guide). I figure that on a very steep face, if the ski comes off, I should be more concerned about my life than the ski and I doubt a brake would help anyways. In powder, brakes dont change a thing. I generally dont need to take my ski off to switch from touring to ski mode. My only concern is putting my ski on after bootpacking and being on a steep face. I don't want that ski to slide away.

My solution? I have to take off my backpack to get my skis off anyways, I just grab the crampons which are in an accessible pocket, clip it to my ski. My trick is to put the ski down above my uphill leg, put my weight on my uphill leg, ice axe/pole/whippet to stabilize, and cross over my lower boot and clip in. Shift weight, cross your feet back to normal and your set on a downhill ski ready to put your uphill ski on.

The leg crossover method means that no only will you have a ski crampon holding your ski in place, youll have your leg and possible a pole preventing it from tumbling.

Leashes would be good for the powder days to not lose a ski but when I'm touring/skiing through brush I've had leashes catch and I'm afraid it break when I want it to. So for the powder days i just revert to the colourful surveyor flagging tape which I stuff inside my boot. Maybe a little bit of a hassle but keep in mind that I pull up my pant leg to unfasten upper buckles when i switch from skiing to touring anyways so honestly its more effective, cheaper.

My conclusion, ski crampons, the crossover technique (takes a little practice but really simple) and bright colourful surveyor tape.

Oh one last thing, your probably wondering how i take off the ski crampon once i have the boot in. Important, I dont slide the crampon into its notch. I just place in on the ski under the boot, clip in the toe first, swivel the binding, take out the crampon and snap the heel.
If you think this is too much fiddling and dont want to lose the crampon, well, it's never happened to me, most of the sliding happens while your trying to put your boot in and it will prevent the crampon from coming out. The method I use to get into the binding is to put my heel down, flush to the binding in touring mode and clip down in one motion (takes practice) but there are other ways of putting on the binding that work.

Sorry for such a long post, hope its helpfull

Nevada29er
04-04-2011, 10:42 PM
I have to agree that dynafit brakes are pretty worthless. Yesterday, on my first outing with FT12s, I had a runaway ski in transition, on a 40d chute. Luckily, a small tree caught it for me only about 30 yards down. Not fun to have to downclimb/post hole after your ski, when you're at the bottom of your run.

Oztracised
04-09-2011, 04:46 AM
Another B&D leash user here. Like others, I have seen skis with Dynafit brakes (original Vertical FT binders) continue downhill unimpeded once the binding released. This hasn't happened to anyone I know with B&D leashes, plus they easily stretch enough that they don't need to be unclipped to fit skins, have lunch, etc. And they're lighter and there's less to go wrong.

Where I live (Oz) there is usually zero avalanche danger, so release in avy conditions is generally a non-issue for me, so YMMV.

zeroforhire
02-07-2012, 02:48 PM
I use these from Dan Bailey's because they're $5.95, (not whatever B&D charges), and connect to a thin zip-tie but will now switch to a cheap key ring, (great idea), that car dealerships keep giving me.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/tomjkennedy/4071-11.jpg

bumping this up.

How has the dan baileys method been holding up? Does anyone else have a line on durable stretchy phone cords? I might just cave and get the BD ones, but like making my own stuff, so thought I would see what other options are out there.

neck beard
03-30-2013, 06:50 PM
Here's an old thread.

Think I saw something related in one of the huge Plum threads, but can't find it.

If you ski with no brakes, all your weight and impact forces rest directly on the heel pins. With brakes, you have support under your heel that comes into play after certain amount of downward force. My concern is breaking heel pins. I don't huck, but getting around terrain means taking drops. Has this been a problem for others?

flipsRscary
03-30-2013, 07:04 PM
I don't really huck, but have taken a couple small drops without brakes and my pins look fine. I'd be more concerned about the pivot than the pins to be honest.

I did pick up my skis and drop them on the ground today, without thinking about the fact that there are no brakes on them. Luckily a tree stump keept the consequence under control, but still, it's a habit I have from my alpine bindings that I'll need to break.

BFD
03-30-2013, 07:07 PM
My son does some hucking (anything in site) The pins do not seem to break. The heel posts do. So I guess the energy is transferred there. Also the heel peice on the boot can break.

Mantana1
03-30-2013, 10:46 PM
I recently went brakeless on my FT12s and doing only small drops, haven't noticed an issue with the heel pins.

Also, these are the minimalist leashes that I've been using and very happy with.
http://www.wildsnow.com/1446/dynafit-binding-safety-leash-strap/

wooley12
03-30-2013, 11:52 PM
Just checked my One's with two pair of older Comforts and a new ST. I do believe that the idea of the brake supporting the boot is a myth. I have never broken a pin but it appears that by the time your boot bottomed with the brake heel pad against the ski, the pins would have broken. Or heel post. I inspect the heel posts with the annual season maintenance.

neck beard
03-31-2013, 12:07 AM
I can hardly pull paper from between my Titans in ST brake pad. So at least in my case, the brake pad is firmly in contact with the boot.

gregL
03-31-2013, 12:15 AM
I can hardly pull paper from between my Titans in ST brake pad.

Stick a screwdriver in there instead of the paper and see if you can push the brake pad down further. If so, I'd vote for no brake and the Plum Yak sort of heel pad if I was a hucker.

neck beard
03-31-2013, 12:28 AM
Stick a screwdriver in there instead of the paper and see if you can push the brake pad down further.

I'm an idiot. Brake pad pressure against the sole rubber came from the springs. I can depress the pad another 4-5mm or so. Meaning Wooly is right. The brake pad does nothing.

Can't afford Plums. Considering Speed Classics to save weight over Verticals... and to save money. Speeds Classics are half the price of Yaks.

TahoeBC
04-01-2013, 09:35 AM
bumping this up.

How has the dan baileys method been holding up? Does anyone else have a line on durable stretchy phone cords? I might just cave and get the BD ones, but like making my own stuff, so thought I would see what other options are out there.

I've been using these for a couple years now, cut off the larger heavy clip and use keyrings/zip ties (cheap to by in bulk on flea bay) to attach binding.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=56668&cat=1,42207

plugboots
04-01-2013, 10:28 AM
The Dan Bailey cords have held up well, (50 days last year, 20 this year?), but I haven't taken a beater since I put them on. They serve the purpose I thought they would though. I can use them at the top to keep the ski from taking off, and they're long enough to stay attached while I re-skin at the bottom.
I think they would break, or my paper clip attachment point would break or bend out in a big fall, which I guess would be the same as if I was in an avalanche.

hhtele
03-24-2014, 08:51 PM
Reviving an old thread.

Moving some some st10s to a different ski.
Want to try brakeless. In my rear housing, I have two springs. Do I omit the smaller spring?

flowing alpy
03-24-2014, 09:05 PM
ask nice for gregL:biggrin:
b

wooley12
03-24-2014, 09:31 PM
No. Use both springs. Dynafit supplies brakes with new spring sets. Some will say brakes/no brakes require different springs. I tested and don't buy it.

cat in january
03-24-2014, 09:32 PM
Think you are asking about removing the brakes. If so, go to Wildsnow for an easy explanation with pictures.

skilikestein
03-24-2014, 10:10 PM
Reviving an old thread.

Moving some some st10s to a different ski.
Want to try brakeless. In my rear housing, I have two springs. Do I omit the smaller spring?
Leave the springs in. Just increase your release value one full notch higher, e.g. go from 8 to 9 on both settings. You could buy new springs but not really necessary. Lou at Wild Snow talks about this if you search under brake removal.

hhtele
03-25-2014, 05:56 AM
Bingo (http://www.wildsnow.com/10742/dynafit-radical-vertical-comfort-bindings-brake-removal-install/)-
Thanks. I had it kind of backwards in my head.
Going to be weird just skiing on those pins, but I am aware that the brakes provide only psychological support.

Was recently skiing some 35-40 degree hard snow. A buddy on Dynafits released after the pitch leveled quite a bit. that snow just giggled at the brakes, and the ski took a ride. Had it come off at the top of the pitch, It ultimately would have stopped way farther down the hill. Same would have happened with any binding/brakes.

angrysasquatch
03-25-2014, 11:31 AM
Do vertical ft/st bindings eventually break the brake hold down/ flat tour mode heel support after the brakes are removed? I've seen a few of those broken, and it seems to me the brake would support it from the bottom, that's the only thing keeping me from ditching the brakes on mine.

wooley12
03-25-2014, 12:14 PM
Maybe. Odds of breaking the tour mode heel shelf are so small it's not a consideration IMO.

hhtele
03-25-2014, 02:31 PM
Just finished.
Losing the brake really shows the ramp angle.
Might try a shim at some point.
Took a little spin out the back door, I think i am going to stick with brakeless.

plugboots
03-25-2014, 02:51 PM
So I was skiing La Voute in La Grave with a guide March 7th, and after we were belayed in, the guide rappels down past this point:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/tomjkennedy/picjpg_zps928836e1.jpg (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/tomjkennedy/media/picjpg_zps928836e1.jpg.html)
to just below the picture frame because there's at least some snow to get a purchase. He stays in the rope, and clicks the toe into his Plums and stamps the heel, and the ski goes flying. My buddy and I watch as the guide says: "FUCK, FUCK, FUCK, FUCK". It was so cool to watch the ski go sliding down, then launch 30 feet up, then luckily lawn dart about 50 feet down or so where the couloir dog legs.
Those cheap Dan Bailey leashes woulda worked perfect there.

gregL
03-25-2014, 02:55 PM
He stays in the rope, and clicks the toe into his Plums and stamps the heel, and the ski goes flying. My buddy and I watch as the guide says: "FUCK, FUCK, FUCK, FUCK".

Isn't English a great language? I say the same thing when that happens.

Johnny Deep
03-25-2014, 04:43 PM
"Basically with any dynafit system you need a little healthy paranoia to prevent runaway skis."


True dat!