Salomon AT binding <world exclusive spy shot>

[Scottish_Skier]

So........... One of my Scottish friends emailed this photo over last week.
It was taken discretely in a Courmayeur car park about 10 days ago.

Its a bit blurry and zoomed. But photo features Salomon Rocker 2 / New Quest Boot (with inserts) plus what appears to be a Salomon AT proto-type binding :wink:. All thanks should go to Graham P. for taking the photo (he is currently living the ski bum dream in Chamonix).

Now in finest TGR tradition please post up pics of your naked sister / girlfriend in return :biggrin:

http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=94109&d=1299066072

[SiSt]

http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=94112&d=1299070481

http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=94110&d=1299067330

A little zoom...

[peterslovo]

Wow, that toe piece looks very Dukeish.

[justcuz]

I just may be unveiling some shots of that new quest boot next week. I know you guys would rather see spy shots of the duke killer, but you just might have to settle.

[Skidog]

Looks jsut about what i saw last season at a focus group. Color is different but...the rest looks same. Duke like toe...sallie heel..metal rails. Low stack height (compared to dukes).

Now the new Quest boot I had not seen. What last did they use, anyone know? I have tried previous models but man they have cavernous heel pockets, the fit of the ghost (which is basically a 2 buckle falcon race boot) is much better for my skinny heels.

[justcuz]

Skidog,

Quest 14 fit is pretty similar to last year's 12 in my opinion. Boot fitter should chime in here, but I did feel like the heel pocket was a tad less roomy. Perhaps this was due to my new insoles, perhaps the liner had a little more girth, maybe slightly thicker socks....who knows. But I'm currently skiing the quest 14's with no modifications and have the same skinny heel problem you do.

[rludes025]

So why didn't you just post it here (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/208243-Salomon-AT-Binding/page5)?

[shirk]

You really should add more tiny watermarks, not nearly enough on that photo.

[f2f]

i think TGR should add tiny watermarks on everything that gets uploaded to this forum.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Oh ffs. Is it me or is that a Z toe POS?
I under stand the the pilot toe isn't the lightest, and would mess with the pivot point. What really freaked me out with the Duke-type system (and this was only a Griffin) was how little elasticity it had, and how hard it was to click in and out of while lying there tangled after almost blowing my ACL.
Does the F12 mitigate this at all without being a total POS?
Can anyone make any additional constructive comments on what I'm talking about? Someone must know what I mean. Especially Tone Capone.

[pisteoff]

Wow, that toe piece looks very Dukeish.
Which is good for the pivot location. A traditional salomon toe with a longitudinal spring would require the pivot to be really forward or a really high stack height.


Duke like toe...sallie heel..metal rails. Low stack height (compared to dukes).
All good. Anyone know anything about the mode switch?

[Skidog]

All good. Anyone know anything about the mode switch?

I know you dont have to take off yer skis.

[pisteoff]

Hunter, yeah, that's the trade-off. You're not going to get an elastic toe or low stack height without having the pivot being really far forward.

[pisteoff]

I know you dont have to take off yer skis.

Excellent. That's the answer I was looking for.

[Skidog]

Oh ffs. Is it me or is that a Z toe POS?



NOT Z toe...toe height is adjustable with a top screw just like most sallie clamps.

[Huck_Schmuck]

Doug for the scoop! And the dodgy watermark. ;-)

[Dr.Sih]

Sweet shot! Can't wait to see some more of this binding.

[powtario]

Solly AT binding, Tecnica Cochise, 191 Lhasa's....now all I need is 2K!

[stuckathuntermtn]

is it just me or does that thing look like a pos? I guess time will tell, I really want it to not be.

[Mustonen]

is it just me or does that thing look like a pos? I guess time will tell, I really want it to not be.

One grainy, zoomed in photo and you can make a determination of quality?

Is it just me or should huntermtn shut the fuck up? You don't need to post every poorly constructed thought that pops into your bird brain.

[verbier61]

well done, Doug :-)
now, if it is a 2-bars AT binding like the silvretta, IMVHO it's a recipe for bad skiing due to torsion.
But maybe the solly anti-torsion solution is different from the noooodly silvrettas

[Mustonen]

Not having skied them, the Silvretta's anti-torsion solution IS those two bars, attached way behind the heel. Of course that sucks. The Duke (and it looks like the Sally's, from the little I can see) relies on an interface underneath and around the heel. It doesn't matter if the connection between toe and heel is made of out of a dowel rod, because it doesn't have anything to do w/ the torsional rigidity.

[nickwm21]

Finally someone manned up.

I will reserve my opinion until I step into one

[Scottish_Skier]

Credit should go to my friend Graham for the cheeky spy shot. Being an internet ski geek I just posted it up (so far no letter from any lawyers!).

Historically Salomon make some of the best downhill bindings. So would be very surprised if these aren't very good once released. I am just amazed they didn't do an touring option 5 years ago.

[SiSt]

Looks to me like they´ve done the same thing as on the duke, except in metal (prob alu) and with a lower stack. Meaning the rails sit flush on the ski, not one meter up like silvrettas, plus they´re attached on several points aling the length of the binding. End speculation on my part.

50% of the overhead from this binding go to TC?

[jondrums]

What I don't understand, is why the aluminum rails? Carbon tube is almost as cheap these days, and way sweeter. Can't wait to see if I can replace them to bling em' out.

[SiSt]

How does carbon tube hold up to repeated bangs, being stepped on and generally abused? And wouldn´t they wear down at the contact points or be very weak if open underneath? (Assuming they´re connected along the length, Duke-style.)

Sounds cool though.

[jondrums]

I've mistreated the crap out of my windsurfing mast and it'll last another 5 years no doubt. I'm not talking thin-wall tube. I was more stating this in jest, since we know nothing about the bindings and I wanted to stir something up.

[SiSt]

Ah, just being a nerd in reply. Always nice to learn something.

[khyber.pass]

^^ You'd have to coat the carbon in the kind of resin that BD uses for its ice tools for it to be damage resistant. Cost would be nearly double.

What I've heard through the Solly grapevine is that 11/12 Quest will retain nearly the same (wide shell). Unless they rushed production, we won't see a narrower Ghost-style touring boot until 12/13.

I wonder if they've done anything to make a walk mode lever that actually locks off the cuff from forward motion (like all other touring boots), or if it's still the same click-in metal bar that only stops rearward motion, leaving the boot to flex forward until you get buckle bang....

My questions are: (a) did they purchase proper Dynafit inserts for their soles? (b) have they compensated TC yet? (c) have they changed their production model so that new customers aren't being used as human-stuntman-beta-testers risking life and limb?

[BiggC]

Can't really tell much from that picture.

As khyber said, here's hoping they didn't fuck up the engineering.

[Skidog]

Can't really tell much from that picture.

As khyber said, here's hoping they didn't fuck up the engineering.

FYI...this things been in the works for like 3+ years...I too hope they dont fuck up engineering, but i see it as highly unlikely.

[stuckathuntermtn]

One grainy, zoomed in photo and you can make a determination of quality?

Is it just me or should huntermtn shut the fuck up? You don't need to post every poorly constructed thought that pops into your bird brain.

but it's the internet!

[powtario]

How does carbon tube hold up to repeated bangs, being stepped on and generally abused? And wouldn´t they wear down at the contact points or be very weak if open underneath? (Assuming they´re connected along the length, Duke-style.)

Sounds cool though.

If Santa Cruz can make a carbon DH bike that is stronger than its Al predecessor......

[mc_roon]

I know you dont have to take off yer skis.

oh reallllyyyyy...

now if the pivot point is set up right and doesnt develop the same kind of slop dukes do then we have a winner

[Hugh Conway]

How does carbon tube hold up to repeated bangs, being stepped on and generally abused?

In the aforementioned Silvretta's, not always great.

[Jethro]

Not having skied them, the Silvretta's anti-torsion solution IS those two bars, attached way behind the heel. Of course that sucks. The Duke (and it looks like the Sally's, from the little I can see) relies on an interface underneath and around the heel. It doesn't matter if the connection between toe and heel is made of out of a dowel rod, because it doesn't have anything to do w/ the torsional rigidity.
second this opinion. The plate connecting the toe to the heel really only needs to be strong enough to retain you while skinning. I skied an emery binding in 1995-1997 with an MRR heel piece installed. The plate connecting the toe to the heel was a flexible piece of plastic. It was kind of a pain to put into ski mode, but once in it was very solid.

It seems like there should be a more reliable version of an old Petzl binding by now. They used a solly toe and a Look heel with a breakage prone plastic plate connecting them. I see no reason to have heavy yet fragile rods connecting the toe to the heel like most AT bindings have today (Dynafit excepted). These plate systems also have to deal with the changing radius of a flexing ski and the fixed length of the binding

[Alkasquawlik]

Just so all that care to know will know and so that rampant speculation doesn't get too inflamed, I have been skiing these bindings daily for a month now. I've done all day tours, done a shit ton of skin to ski transitions, skied and toured them in waist deep pow, thigh deep pow, ankle deep pow, mank, wet mank, freezing mank, hardpack, windcrust and just about every other conditions the PNW and BC can offer up. I've sent them into flips off some pretty hefty cliffs, hit big pillow lines in the trees, skied spines, hit kickers, skied over exposure and generally have tried to abuse the crap out of them and treat them like a complete moron would treat them. I've skied laps on groomers in touring mode, repeatedly kicked the shit out of the toe and heel piece with my boots, let them sit out most nights in the back of my truck in rain, sleet and snow and have generally just have thrown them around like a monkey throws poo. In other words, I'm try to test the shit out of them.

While I don't know what I details I can into right now, in a recent write up I handed back to the Salomon boys I gave the binders a 9 out 10 and called them "my new favorite toy". But I think that's all I can say right now. Otherwise I'm off to Frenchieland on Monday to meet up with the designers, so after the little get together, I should know whether or not I can spill the rest of the beans.

Nice spy shots by the way. I gotta say that at first I was honestly a little disappointed in the maggots. I'm surprised it took this long to post some spy shots up. I surely would have figured that shots would have been posted after my first day on them. :wink:

[SimB]

Finally, I've been waiting to see these. First thing that came to mind was, as some has said, silvretta and that is not a very good grade for what I think is supposed to be a very burly touring binding. But on the other hand, it does look like it doesn't build as much from the ski as the silvretta, or Duke for that matter. Exciting times coming up!

Couldn't care less about the new quest boot though, I know of 3 seperat incidents were both buckles and shells have broken. Add the fucked up AT soles to that... Wouldn't wear 'em if you paid me!

[Huck_Schmuck]

Nice spy shots by the way. I gotta say that at first I was honestly a little disappointed in the maggots. I'm surprised it took this long to post some spy shots up. I surely would have figured that shots would have been posted after my first day on them. :wink:

I heard you were too fast to take pictures of.

[Core Shot]

Just so all that care to know will know and so that rampant speculation doesn't get too inflamed, I have been skiing these bindings daily for a month now. I've

I've skied laps on groomers in touring mode,


:

seriously? that is crazy that they take the stress of skiing without the heel locked down.
Not that all the other hard abuse shit you been doing isn't good testing also.

great news. sick binding development

[MarcusBrody]

Nice spy shots by the way. I gotta say that at first I was honestly a little disappointed in the maggots. I'm surprised it took this long to post some spy shots up. I surely would have figured that shots would have been posted after my first day on them. :wink:

Well the watermarking alone took most of a month...

[jondrums]

I've ... let them sit out most nights in the back of my truck

any know what his truck looks like? jk :D

[stuckathuntermtn]

Sweet!!!
Alka, are you allowed to speak to how it "feels" clicking in and out as compared to the competition? DIN range, release consistency, etc.?

[iscariot]

...thigh deep pow, ankle deep pow, mank, wet mank, freezing mank, hardpack, windcrust and just about every other conditions the PNW and BC can offer up...

I call bullshit.


We all know that pros only ski chest deep hero pow on bluebird days...

[Alkasquawlik]

Sweet!!!
Alka, are you allowed to speak to how it "feels" clicking in and out as compared to the competition? DIN range, release consistency, etc.?

Um, sure. Well, it inspires a lot of confidence when clicking in. The heel piece is strong and the binding ski incredibly similar to my STH 916's. Compared to other touring bindings, it to me feels far the most torsionally stiff than anything out there. Many times over the past few weeks I've forgotten that I was on touring bindings, skied a line and then had a little thought at the end of the day that was along the lines of "holy crap, I can't believe I did that on touring bindings".

As far as DIN range, don't know if I can release that info yet but let's say it's a lot of DIN range.

I've released twice on them and had zero pre-releases or any other funky stuff going on. Both times I released they were in situations that they most definitely should have released. Scenario one was tomahawking through a pillow line in tight trees (yeah I was scared) and the second time was after upon splatting into the flats on a 50 foot front flip.

And if Gunder is watching this thread, we skied the last three weeks together and he can attest to everything here.

[Scottish_Skier]

^ Super cool. Apologies for posting the spy shot... Felt a smidge guilty, though clearly not guilty enough to stop me posting it. Pretty obvious that a lot of people are excited / interested in this binder.

p.s I am better than you !! (at leaking blurry low quality photos of proto-type bindings on the interweb...). </over used G.N.A.R film reference>

[mikedski]

Haha! I'm surprised it took this long for a photo to come out. We've been testing this binding hard for the past 3 months and I can say, that so far, the results are spectacular. The team will be out beating the crap out of it for the rest of the season to make sure it's right. Confidence is high.

[mikedski]

Haha! I'm surprised it took this long for a photo to come out. We've been testing this binding hard for the past 3 months and I can say, that so far, the results are spectacular. The team will be out beating the crap out of it for the rest of the season to make sure it's right. Confidence is high.

Oops, I somehow missed the 2nd page of this thread. I can back up everything Alka said. Came off a 2 week touring trip in Norway 2 weeks ago. Charged hard, ate shit, bindings stayed on and came off when they needed to.

[toast2266]

My only concern: will they work for big wave skiing?

[Brewski2]

For sale next year?

[Alkasquawlik]

For sale next year?

No idear as of now, but I am in France right now with the product development team and I should know more soon...and whether or not I can tell you fine folks the tech specs.

[f2f]

^ take spy shots, for crying out loud! :tongue:

[Meathelmet]

Came off a 2 week touring trip in Norway 2 weeks ago. Charged hard, ate shit, bindings stayed on and came off when they needed to.

So it was you guys that had tracked the shit out of Sogndalens backbowl and made it a pukkelpist? Dammit.

[stuckathuntermtn]

If the performance is Pilot toe-like, I really really want it.

[mikedski]

So it was you guys that had tracked the shit out of Sogndalens backbowl and made it a pukkelpist? Dammit.

Yes and no. We were there, but dragging a slow-ass film crew and getting lapped repeatedly by hungry locals like you :wink:

[_koppen]

Hey Alka, any update from french?

[Alkasquawlik]

Hey Alka, any update from french?

Yeah, they're improving a few minor things per our suggestions and no I can't go into them. It sounds like a later release than the internet would like to have, but because it's still in development it makes sense. Otherwise I did finally manage to completely explode the binding today. But unfortunately in happened in a situation that only relates to driving down French highways at autobahn-esque speeds. Ski rack on the top of the car blew off at 160 km/h causing my Dictators and Rocker2's to go flying down the interstate at nuclear speeds. The heel piece of my steel 916's blew up and ripped out of the skis and the plastic in the clamp part of the heel piece on the AT binding was broken and ground down to a pulp. Quite surprising the AT binding held up better than the steel 916's, but alas, nothing really stood a chance to skis hitting asphalt at 100mph. A good test though I guess.

[Poop~Ghost]

Yeah, they're improving a few minor things per our suggestions and no I can't go into them. It sounds like a later release than the internet would like to have, but because it's still in development it makes sense. Otherwise I did finally manage to completely explode the binding today. But unfortunately in happened in a situation that only relates to driving down French highways at autobahn-esque speeds. Ski rack on the top of the car blew off at 160 km/h causing my Dictators and Rocker2's to go flying down the interstate at nuclear speeds. The heel piece of my steel 916's blew up and ripped out of the skis and the plastic in the clamp part of the heel piece on the AT binding was broken and ground down to a pulp. Quite surprising the AT binding held up better than the steel 916's, but alas, nothing really stood a chance to skis hitting asphalt at 100mph. A good test though I guess.

Note to self - not buying your skis that show up in gearswap.

[Driver]

A new method for torque testing I suppose. Thanks for sharing what you have, looking forward to seeing the details.

[XavierD]

So are we looking at a 13/14 release right now? Possibly 12/13? Can you let us know what the screw pattern is looking like?

[Alkasquawlik]

Most likely 12/13 from what I've heard. About to drive to annecy to replace the heel piece on the binders for the rest of my yuropean adventures.

[plugboots]

Annecy, I was just there. Pretty place:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/tomjkennedy/IMG_1141.jpg

[CarlE]

Cody, Mike, any more information that you guys can leak now?

Perhaps some more spy shots from the community?

[mc_roon]

soo, what kind of ski rack?

[Jumper Bones]

Cody, Mike, any more information that you guys can leak now?


no I can't go into them

Pretty sure that's your answer...

[XavierD]

soo, what kind of ski rack?

very important question.

[Skid76]

Years ago I had a Yakima rack pull apart because of snowboard on top of a S-10 Blazer. At the time, Yakima had an add saying "On the slopes it's called a yard sale, on the highway it's called having a really lame rack." I sent my rack back with a copy of the ad and a note asking why I had a really lame rack. Replaced in two days along with reimbursement for gear damage repairs :)

[stuckathuntermtn]

wow
random thought of the year.

[frosty374]

looks like this thread got kinda off topic but...the idea behind the salomon AT is that you can release the heel without having to click out like the Duke. A piece slides out from behind the heel. A certain jholer attempted to demonstrate this for me on the lift last year but was unable to torque it with his ski pole...guess they have some more R&D to do but i was under the impression the binding would come out at the same time as the AT boot.

[thehaze]

Two shots form seth facebook page: not a specific binding pic but maybe someone will appreciate.

9832598326

[davieboot]

The thought of lugging that heavy heel piece up and down on every stride makes me cringe.

[stuckathuntermtn]

It just looks like a duke toe.

[huge-go]

The thought of lugging that heavy heel piece up and down on every stride makes me cringe.

If you need need the supposed burl this thing provides compared to other AT options, it shouldn't . People need to harden the fuck up.

[ectreeskier11]

It just looks like a duke toe.

it looks almost identical in person, the snub nose thing is needed to get the pivot point closer to the toe.

[neonorchid]

Is it me or does the ski mode "deck" height (not sure the right word), of the boot from the ski look rather high?

[Skidog]

Is it me or does the ski mode "deck" height (not sure the right word), of the boot from the ski look rather high?

All i can comment on is the "stack" height is lower than that of the marker duke.

[F#*k You Cat]

any word on the Release Date for the Solly AT binding??
Maggot Group Buy??

cheers
CAT

[davieboot]

If you need need the supposed burl this thing provides compared to other AT options, it shouldn't . People need to harden the fuck up.

I would love to have the "burl" of this thing, but I also am not too stoked about exhaustion on the way up. If you were more burl, you could just shoulder an alpine rig and boot pack up. That is what real men do.

[huge-go]

I would love to have the "burl" of this thing, but I also am not too stoked about exhaustion on the way up. If you were more burl, you could just shoulder an alpine rig and boot pack up. That is what real men do.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Bootpacking through deep snow is another story. I'm just saying, people wanna see burly AT gear, but as soon as they hear the weight, they start being weight weenies. There's tradeoffs unfortunately. What good is a light binding if you can't trust it completely on the way down? I ski for the ride down personally, not the skin up, so if a pound on each leg means I can completely trust my bindings when I'm shredding down, I'll take it. I used trekkers this whole season, and while they are a bitch, I dealt with it because with what I was doing I wanted alpine binding strength. When I got tired I didn't say "fuck, trekkers are SHIT." I realized this was my limitation in physical fitness, not the trekkers. Obviously trekkers suck in more ways than just the weight, but you catch my drift...

[shafty85]

any word on the Release Date for the Solly AT binding??
Maggot Group Buy??

cheers
CAT

Second this motion. Any word?

[davieboot]

Now you're just being ridiculous. Bootpacking through deep snow is another story. I'm just saying, people wanna see burly AT gear, but as soon as they hear the weight, they start being weight weenies. There's tradeoffs unfortunately. What good is a light binding if you can't trust it completely on the way down? I ski for the ride down personally, not the skin up, so if a pound on each leg means I can completely trust my bindings when I'm shredding down, I'll take it. I used trekkers this whole season, and while they are a bitch, I dealt with it because with what I was doing I wanted alpine binding strength. When I got tired I didn't say "fuck, trekkers are SHIT." I realized this was my limitation in physical fitness, not the trekkers. Obviously trekkers suck in more ways than just the weight, but you catch my drift...

Yeah, I catch you drift. But there is a basic problem with having the heaviest part of the binding attached to your heel. It makes them way way more exhausting to skin with. If trekkers weren't so sloppy and prone to break, I would take them in an S916 over an AT version of an S916 because that massive heel piece won't be moving up and down with every step. It is the same reason shaving 1 pound off of your boots makes a much bigger difference than taking 1 pound out of your pack. I would prefer Solomon spend their engineering dollars on an AT insert (like Trekkers) that actually works really well than lug that heel piece up and down 10,000 times a day.

[el hefe]

" I would prefer Solomon spend their engineering dollars on an AT insert (like Trekkers) that actually works really well than lug that heel piece up and down 10,000 times a day." I agree with this, but still make the binding!

[iscariot]

Why don't they make a binding where the toe and heel slide fore and aft out of the way, like a rental binding, and then the separate walk mechanism, not connected to either the toe or the heel, and which normally sits under the boot when skiing, then pops up.

Or even use the same toe, but have the heel slide back, like it does with a forward pressure adjustment. That way the heel gets out of the way, and you don't have to lift the heavy heel piece 10,000 time a day.

When you want to ski, you push a button in the heel, and the spring loaded heel piece automatically returns to its correct BSL for downhill.


[Patent pending iscariot.]

[davieboot]

Why don't they make a binding where the toe and heel slide fore and aft out of the way, like a rental binding, and then the separate walk mechanism, not connected to either the toe or the heel, and which normally sits under the boot when skiing, then pops up.

Or even use the same toe, but have the heel slide back, like it does with a forward pressure adjustment. That way the heel gets out of the way, and you don't have to lift the heavy heel piece 10,000 time a day.

When you want to ski, you push a button in the heel, and the spring loaded heel piece automatically returns to its correct BSL for downhill.


[Patent pending iscariot.]

I like this idea.

[Alkasquawlik]

Why don't they make a binding where the toe and heel slide fore and aft out of the way, like a rental binding, and then the separate walk mechanism, not connected to either the toe or the heel, and which normally sits under the boot when skiing, then pops up.

Or even use the same toe, but have the heel slide back, like it does with a forward pressure adjustment. That way the heel gets out of the way, and you don't have to lift the heavy heel piece 10,000 time a day.

When you want to ski, you push a button in the heel, and the spring loaded heel piece automatically returns to its correct BSL for downhill.


[Patent pending iscariot.]

That sounds incredibly complicated to make but at the same time kind of a genius idea. Consider idea stolen! :wink:

[huge-go]

Yeah, I catch you drift. But there is a basic problem with having the heaviest part of the binding attached to your heel. It makes them way way more exhausting to skin with. If trekkers weren't so sloppy and prone to break, I would take them in an S916 over an AT version of an S916 because that massive heel piece won't be moving up and down with every step. It is the same reason shaving 1 pound off of your boots makes a much bigger difference than taking 1 pound out of your pack. I would prefer Solomon spend their engineering dollars on an AT insert (like Trekkers) that actually works really well than lug that heel piece up and down 10,000 times a day.

I definitely get what you're saying. And yeah, I agree about the trekkers. In theory they are a great idea, but the execution is FLAWED. Personally, I'm sticking with trekkers as of now because I'm young and can lug the weight. That and I'm cheap. Mostly I'm cheap. And until I try a real AT binding, I won't know the difference. Ignorance is bliss right?

[D(C)]

I found the real issue with trekkers was not the performance while they were on your feet, more that they're really slow and awkward to get on and off. What would be neat is a touring adapter that fits in alpine bindings but works with Dynafit-like toe jaws instead of a heel bail, with the ability to step in. Think Dynafit toe piece mounted on a dummy boot. You lose the pivot breakage issue and gain the ability to step in and not have to fiddle with heel bails. There's still the matter of snapping the adapter into the binding, but that would be tough to overcome.

[icelanticskier]

fritschi.:)

rog

[davieboot]

fritschi.:)

rog

But you're missing the point of having a full metal, bomber alpine binding for the down. If I'm going fritschi, I might as well go dynafit. As a matter of fact, I have.

[davieboot]

I found the real issue with trekkers was not the performance while they were on your feet, more that they're really slow and awkward to get on and off. What would be neat is a touring adapter that fits in alpine bindings but works with Dynafit-like toe jaws instead of a heel bail, with the ability to step in. Think Dynafit toe piece mounted on a dummy boot. You lose the pivot breakage issue and gain the ability to step in and not have to fiddle with heel bails. There's still the matter of snapping the adapter into the binding, but that would be tough to overcome.

Or perhaps dynafit-compatible pinchers as part of the toe piece. Not necessarily an add-on device, but something integrated with the toe piece. So you just step out of the alpine binding, and snap your toe into the dynafit pivot. Here's to dreaming.

[ectreeskier11]

But you're missing the point of having a full metal, bomber alpine binding for the down. If I'm going fritschi, I might as well go dynafit. As a matter of fact, I have.

that's my train of thought... if i want some lightweight binding that's probably going to break at the least ideal time, it might as well be very, very light as opposed to a big hunk of shitty plastic.

[icelanticskier]

But you're missing the point of having a full metal, bomber alpine binding for the down. If I'm going fritschi, I might as well go dynafit. As a matter of fact, I have.

no point missed. just amused. everyone wants bomber, many of those same folks don't want to lug it around. it's not THAT heavy and it's on a fucking pivot. just slide yer little girly foot forward pussies! you'll get there! dynafit? light yes, but ^^^^^those same folks are scared of the little mouse traps and that they won't retain thier gnardom.

my point with fritschi is that they just plain fucking work for thier intended pupose. not the lightest, not the stiffest, but click in anywhere with no fiddling and just go. wanna make a fritschi stiffer? get rid of the damn AT boot and throw a lange RS 130 on yer feet. "oh, but it's heavy and doesn't have a walk mode!" blah blah blah. yer booting/skinning up hill. who needs a walk mode for that?!

"i'll brake a fritschi". not if yer skiing properly. skiing pow? fuck, xc skis and laceups is all you need to schralp that foofy shit.

carry on...........:biggrin:

fucking hot as ballz out.

rog

[davieboot]

no point missed. just amused. everyone wants bomber, many of those same folks don't want to lug it around. it's not THAT heavy and it's on a fucking pivot. just slide yer little girly foot forward pussies! you'll get there! dynafit? light yes, but ^^^^^those same folks are scared of the little mouse traps and that they won't retain thier gnardom.

my point with fritschi is that they just plain fucking work for thier intended pupose. not the lightest, not the stiffest, but click in anywhere with no fiddling and just go. wanna make a fritschi stiffer? get rid of the damn AT boot and throw a lange RS 130 on yer feet. "oh, but it's heavy and doesn't have a walk mode!" blah blah blah. yer booting/skinning up hill. who needs a walk mode for that?!

"i'll brake a fritschi". not if yer skiing properly. skiing pow? fuck, xc skis and laceups is all you need to schralp that foofy shit.

carry on...........:biggrin:

fucking hot as ballz out.

rog

But the point is missed. We aren't looking for the best product for our purposes that is currently available. Fritschis might be the best available tool from some people. Dynafits for others. But there is room for improvement. We're talking about new technology. Fritschis are OK, but they certainly aren't the best possible thing that anyone will ever think of.

[iscariot]

wanna make a fritschi stiffer? get rid of the damn AT boot and throw a lange RS 130 on yer feet.


Except that the Lange 130 won't help at all with the tortional/lateral slop that fritschi's typically exhibit, thereby nullifying the potential advantages of a stiffer boot.

[jeffamantea]

all i know is that i'm looking forward to seeing reviews when these rigs hit the snow more widespread this winter.

[coldfeet]

Why don't they make a binding where the toe and heel slide fore and aft out of the way, like a rental binding, and then the separate walk mechanism, not connected to either the toe or the heel, and which normally sits under the boot when skiing, then pops up.

Or even use the same toe, but have the heel slide back, like it does with a forward pressure adjustment. That way the heel gets out of the way, and you don't have to lift the heavy heel piece 10,000 time a day.

When you want to ski, you push a button in the heel, and the spring loaded heel piece automatically returns to its correct BSL for downhill.


[Patent pending iscariot.]

Check this out then:

http://www.wildsnow.com/backcountry-ski-museum/geze-1960s-adapter/geze-touring-at-adapter-1960s.html

[TripleT]

im guessing the binding you see at 2:00 min in this video is it?
http://youtu.be/csqurHJSTC4?t=2m

[Moralkaka]

http://i53.tinypic.com/n21n3q.jpg

[iscariot]

Check this out then:

JNUQmnBd8FA

Well shit. Somebody obviously stole my idea, and then went back in time to build it over 50 years ago.





So, yah. That's pretty much the idea, but with modern materials. Not sure why the binding manufacturers aren't doing something similar to that. It seems link a much simpler/cheaper/lighter/stiffer solution than what they are currently producing. Or why a company isn't making the adapter plates so that you can do that with bindings, as in the video.

In my vision the toe would pivot similar to the Duke/SalomonAT; the under-boot plate would clip into the boot similar to the heel bail of a AlpineTrekker, but designed so the bail wouldn't interfere with the heel of the binding on the way down; and the heel would slide out of the way and back, just as in the video.


jondrums?







P.S. Thanks for the find.

[ecskier7]

I have heard that the binding can only go into touring mode with the it in the bar in the elevated position. The binding does not have a flat touring mode like a duke. Salomon is trying to fix that, but everything else sounds good.

[ectreeskier11]

damn, that'd be a deal breaker if true

[snapt]

there's a pretty clear view of it touring in the preview for this season's freeski tv

[iscariot]

I have heard that the binding can only go into touring mode with the it in the bar in the elevated position. The binding does not have a flat touring mode like a duke.

:eek:


That sounds incredibly complicated to make but at the same time kind of a genius idea. Consider idea stolen! :wink:


Make it so...but at least send me a pair of the protos...or come to the Horse and I'll show you around. I'll even let you buy me some beers.

[Alkasquawlik]

I have heard that the binding can only go into touring mode with the it in the bar in the elevated position. The binding does not have a flat touring mode like a duke. Salomon is trying to fix that, but everything else sounds good.

You are right, it doesn't have a 100% flat touring mode. At first myself and the team thought it could be a problem. But the slight heel lift at it's flattest setting was so incremental it ended up not being a problem If you were touring 10 miles across a flat glacier with them then it would probably lead to some calf cramping, but if you're doing that then you probably aren't going to be bringing a downhill geared touring binding out with you.

All in all the binding isn't trying to be a perfect touring binding, it's a damn good downhill binding with a good touring option. It was built to be better on the downhill than the Duke, Fritschi, Dynafit and all the other touring binders out there, but realistically only lighter, stronger and better than the Duke at touring. For that purpose, I think it is successful.

[flying_raven]

You are right, it doesn't have a 100% flat touring mode. At first myself and the team thought it could be a problem. But the slight heel lift at it's flattest setting was so incremental it ended up not being a problem If you were touring 10 miles across a flat glacier with them then it would probably lead to some calf cramping, but if you're doing that then you probably aren't going to be bringing a downhill geared touring binding out with you.

All in all the binding isn't trying to be a perfect touring binding, it's a damn good downhill binding with a good touring option. It was built to be better on the downhill than the Duke, Fritschi, Dynafit and all the other touring binders out there, but realistically only lighter, stronger and better than the Duke at touring. For that purpose, I think it is successful.

wake up man,salomon is not what it used to be for loooong time now.
for example quest boot with tech inserts..wtf?
the fact that salomon is trying to build as you call "lighter stronger and better" touring binding doesnt necesseary mean that it will be true.
the biggest bullshit is that sollys guys like you only speak about it and are trying to make bubble.you and your team will have to wait few years until that binding will PROOVE that is good enough for touring and downhil agressive skiing.
until then it doesnt exist.
and dont put togeher dynafit fritchi and marker all their bindings are oriented for totally
diferent skiers and styles of touring and skiing.

[toast2266]

Yeah Alka, I agree with f. raven - how dare you come in here and tell us about some new and interesting product, giving us information that hasn't otherwise been released in public. Clearly because Salomon made a poor decision on a completely different product, anything you say about this binding is inherently false. Based on your statements it seems clear that you've probably never even seen a fritschi binding, because they're totally different from this binding that we've never seen. Why don't you just go back to trying to ski down waves or something.

[Skidog]

wake up man,salomon is not what it used to be for loooong time now.
for example quest boot with tech inserts..wtf?
the fact that salomon is trying to build as you call "lighter stronger and better" touring binding doesnt necesseary mean that it will be true.
the biggest bullshit is that sollys guys like you only speak about it and are trying to make bubble.you and your team will have to wait few years until that binding will PROOVE that is good enough for touring and downhil agressive skiing.
until then it doesnt exist.
and dont put togeher dynafit fritchi and marker all their bindings are oriented for totally
diferent skiers and styles of touring and skiing.

Hey Jong...SHUT THE FUCK UP...you havent a clue what you're talking about.

[Alkasquawlik]

Definitely not gonna feed into this moron's trolling but here's a photo that might help speak to the binding's dowhnill capability.

I did this on the touring binding and didn't think twice about it.
http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=98848&d=1313163845

98848

[D(C)]

Definitely not gonna feed into this moron's trolling but here's a photo that might help speak to the binding's dowhnill capability.

I did this on the touring binding and didn't think twice about it.
http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=98848&d=1313163845

98848

That's insane stuff! I wonder if anyone has ever cased the baker road gap...

[flying_raven]

Definitely not gonna feed into this moron's trolling but here's a photo that might help speak to the binding's dowhnill capability.

I did this on the touring binding and didn't think twice about it.
http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=98848&d=1313163845

98848


yeaah...thanx alka thats exactly what im talking about
many bindings are capable of doing it,even some touring bindings.Could you beleive that?
i understand you want to prepare space for good selling salomons bindings
but unless its heavily used everything is useless ;) so keep on workin ;)

[thehaze]

yeaah...thanx alka thats exactly what im talking about
many bindings are capable of doing it,even some touring bindings.Could you beleive that?
i understand you want to prepare space for good selling salomons bindings
but unless its heavily used everything is useless ;) so keep on workin ;)

Com'on raven, i understand your suspect about what all Cody says it's because he's a salomon man, but you can't say that you will try to do that road gap with a plastic Firtchi or a dyna..and even if i'm wrong, to me it seems that he's talking in a verry humble mood "I think it is successful"...so, i understand that your ego is asking for moar, and maybe doing the bad one with a pro give you some happiness, but to the majority of who read your post, i think you seem an asshole

[flying_raven]

no im not talking about fritchi and nafit and you know that
all im saying is- until its skied heavily for long time by many users,with different styles writing here about it is for......
but i see someone has to do it ;)

[thehaze]

no im not talking about fritchi and nafit and you know that
all im saying is- until its skied heavily for long time by many users,with different styles writing here about it is for......
but i see someone has to do it ;)

And can't he be the first to say that? i repeat, to me it seems pretty humble, he doesn't come here and says "thake that, it's the best at bindings, all the other one sucks"..what i'm tring to let you understand it's that maybe you overreacted..

[Skidog]

no im not talking about fritchi and nafit and you know that
all im saying is- until its skied heavily for long time by many users,with different styles writing here about it is for......
but i see someone has to do it ;)

Trust me Alka isnt the only one out there railing these things in big mtn conditions and big lines. There are quite a few hard skiers out there ripping these up and i hear nothing but good things at this point. Nothing is perfect. Turntables blow up too, 916's, etc....nothing is 100% perfect.

I would like to know what other "AT" binding you'd be doing that flip over the gap with though...im betting you'd shit your pants just looking at that gap jump from the top, but hey what the fuck do i know, im just some east coast transplant beater.

[toast2266]

all im saying is- until its skied heavily for long time by many users,with different styles writing here about it is for......


Exactly. I never trust reviews from guys sending backflips over large jumps. I'd much rather base my purchases on the marginally informed opinions of internet beaters.

[hop]

Back in Feb. 2004 Dude_le_Skibum lawndarted that gap with 190 wizard Explosives and the grey Fritschi Freerides. I don't remember if he skied away clean but I'm pretty sure he did; in any event he and all his gear came away unscathed.

I followed shortly afterwards on my tele gear. No big deal except the landing was a bit destroyed. ;)

K.C. Deane hit that thing about 5x one day last April with Dukes. No big deal there either, but then again Dukes can fail while skiing a groomer. YMMV.

[Alkasquawlik]

Back in Feb. 2004 Dude_le_Skibum lawndarted that gap with 190 wizard Explosives and the grey Fritschi Freerides. I don't remember if he skied away clean but I'm pretty sure he did; in any event he and all his gear came away unscathed.

I followed shortly afterwards on my tele gear. No big deal except the landing was a bit destroyed. ;)

K.C. Deane hit that thing about 5x one day last April with Dukes. No big deal there either, but then again Dukes can fail while skiing a groomer. YMMV.

Exactly. At some point I guarantee every binding out there has failed for somebody and worked flawlessly for another. The Salomon binding is another option for touring. In the year I tested it, it worked flawlessly for myself and I really enjoyed skiing on a binding that made me feel confident on the downhill but had the ability to go uphill.

Raven- I applaud your desire to question what I say, my journalist mother always told me to question everything, but your ideas are pretty baseless and off the point. I think it comes down to one main point that you might not understand, you see I don't make single dollar extra if I sell a binding, ski or XXXXL ski pant. Nor do my sponsors even pay attention to these forums and say 'good job on promoting Salomon on those quirky fucking message boards'. I really have zero incentive to promote anything on these forums. I discuss things here because I get to test shit early and feed info to the hungry maggots. /end

[Arty50]

I really have zero incentive to promote anything on these forums.

Liar! You once promoted a pair of used bindings you had for sale on here. I bought them because I thought they might make me ski like you. Instead I crashed into an inflatable sheep doll and scared a group of small children.

[whyturn]

I think only people who huck like that can chime in on this thread regarding durability, crickets. TGR has many who can, but just saying, sick............and I am not one of em, Baker is great mountain though
Move along nothing to see here.........
My take, new technology choices are nice. Proven is best. Duke failed for like 2-3 seasons before it sorta worked. i mean its a trade, want ease to truly tour dynafiddle. Want more coneection go freeride. Want to be like everybody else get a Duke. I like FKS, and would be curious to demo the new plate with alpine. But soli has many good products and a few really bad ones.

[vanisle]

Nor do my sponsors even pay attention to these forums and say 'good job on promoting Salomon on those quirky fucking message boards'.

Therein lies the problem...

[verbier51]

Any idea when it will hit the market?

[iscariot]

Definitely not gonna feed into this moron's trolling but here's a photo that might help speak to the binding's dowhnill capability.

I did this on the touring binding and didn't think twice about it.
http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=98848&d=1313163845

98848

That's you in the red jacket. Shit those bindings must be BURLY!!!

:wink:

[PhiberAwptik]

no im not talking about fritchi and nafit and you know that
all im saying is- until its skied heavily for long time by many users,with different styles writing here about it is for......
but i see someone has to do it ;)
Half your posts are JONG ass questions about touring bindings last year. Now you are some fucking expert calling Cody Townsend out for giving Mag's a little beta on the new binding he has been testing? Go fuck yourself beater!

[time2clmb]

That's you in the red jacket. Shit those bindings must be BURLY!!!

:wink:

Phhttt...I can't believe you're a pro, I can stand there so much better than that :fmicon:

[schuss]

that's a terrible test. The skis aren't even on the snow. FAIL.

[sqikunst]

^^ Haha...

[icelanticskier]

that's a terrible test. The skis aren't even on the snow. FAIL.

FOR THE FUCKING WIN.

rog

[Lamothe]

that's a terrible test. The skis aren't even on the snow. FAIL.

nicely done sir

[marshalolson]

so what is the goal of this binding? to be marginally better than a duke?

[Lamothe]

so what is the goal of this binding? to be marginally better than a duke?

Well marker pretty much owns that portion on the market. Even if its subpar it still makes sense to own a part of the market. no? just me?

[sqikunst]

I cant think of a single Marker Binding that I would Strap to my feet. So if Solly wants to give it a go why not the only bindings I have and ever use are 916 and the fabled 18's. Best Binding ever made. Give em' a shot. Does anyone know anything about hole pattern cause it would be a pretty big coup if they used the same toe config cause then the tail could just quiver killer it and boom less swiss cheese on your skis.

[Wandrin*]

no im not talking about fritchi and nafit and you know that
all im saying is- until its skied heavily for long time by many users,with different styles writing here about it is for......
but i see someone has to do it ;)

Yeah! Dammmit. It took DECADES for the Duke to gain traction in the market before anybody would buy them, right? Uh, no, you are stupid. If Marker can do that from the reviled position it had in the market then just think what Salomon can do from the top of the heap.

[Alkasquawlik]

so what is the goal of this binding? to be marginally better than a duke?

Um, well on the most boiled down level I guess yes, but ultimately we wanted it to be far better than the Duke. When we were coming up with initial design features the things we mainly asked for were coming from the problems we saw and experienced testing the Duke. I was pretty appalled by the Duke's sloppiness, vibration and lack of power going downhill. And it's mode switch seemed like it could be better. So that's mainly what we worked on when developing this binding.

In my opinion the results are: The Salomon binder is so much better on downhills it's silly. The touring switch over is much easier and doesn't ice up nearly as easy as the Duke. This season about 16-18 people tested it for a minimum of three months, from all the prototypes that were out there, there was no broken AFD's and no reports of pre-releases. There was only one report of a broken pair of bindings. It's weight is comparable to the Duke. Overall it's an everyday binding for me and I'm stoked to have something that skis so well downhill but has uphill capability.

[njfreeskier]

There was only one report of a broken pair of bindings. It's weight is comparable to the Duke.

Who broke it, and how/where did the binding break? When you say comparable, that means more, right? Because if it were less, you would have said and it weighs less too, right?

[huckster989]

I'm all for competition in the burly touring binding market but have we all forgot about salomons last venture into backcountry style gear?

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/191256-Salomon-Quest-Tech-inserts-failure-thread?highlight=salomon+at+boot

like the duke I'll give these a couple seasons to settle in before I try them out. But Salomon has a bad reputation in BC gear already but hopefully they can prove to be safe and reliable. Until than I'll stick with some discounted barons or dukes and Dynafits.

Any idea on when we can see some real specs and numbers on these?

[Bandit Man]

All Salomon has to do is price the new binding a few bucks less than Dukes on Shop Form and they'll have half of the sidecountry touring market right there. :wink:

[marshalolson]

Um, well on the most boiled down level I guess yes, but ultimately we wanted it to be far better than the Duke.

nice. all for an improved ski mode over the duke. that thing was groundbreaking compared to a naxo or fritschi when it came out ~5years ago, but certainly has a ton of space and need for improvement in that department.

my question was more in reference to the ski/tour mode switch still requires to exit the boot from the binding, and that there is no flat climbing option... which IMO deserves a REALLY? I, personally, spend 75% of my time skinning in the flat setting, even when switchbacking up a 45deg line... i would imagine lot of people would look at this as a deal breaker.

the marginal improvement was looking at the whole package: better skiing, same ski/walk mode switch issue, and worse skinning, with weight being about the same.

[Alkasquawlik]

Who broke it, and how/where did the binding break? When you say comparable, that means more, right? Because if it were less, you would have said and it weighs less too, right?

No, it actually weighs less. Well at least the prototype bindings we skied on did. But it was not too much less so that's why I said 'comparable'.
I believe Chris Rubens broken a pair. He punch fronted in super super heavy mank and I think one of the touring bars cracked because his skis flexed so damn much. He was able to fix it in the backcountry on a two week long touring trip so it didn't sound too terrible of a break.

Marsh- You don't have to step out of the binding to switch out into and out of touring mode. Again, the hundred percent flat thing had me feeling a little skeptical at first because of the same reason you speak about. But it's literally a around a 2 degree incline and in all my touring, even across long flat lakes (the one in Baker), I never had a problem with it. But I agree, some people will just look at the numbers and not be into.

[marshalolson]

Marsh- You don't have to step out of the binding to switch out into and out of touring mode. Again, the hundred percent flat thing had me feeling a little skeptical at first because of the same reason you speak about. But it's literally a around a 2 degree incline and in all my touring, even across long flat lakes (the one in Baker), I never had a problem with it. But I agree, some people will just look at the numbers and not be into.

2deg = flat, for all intents and purposes, yes. agreed. and no need to exit binding? nice. dunno where i got that from. wicked.

[strawjack]

Definitely not gonna feed into this moron's trolling but here's a photo that might help speak to the binding's dowhnill capability.

I did this on the touring binding and didn't think twice about it.
http://stk.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=98848&d=1313163845

98848

dude, you're upside down...wtf, you're doing it wrong!

[sqikunst]

^^ Don't want to thread jack really cool seeing all the inside specs from Townsend, but what I really want to know is if he was rocking the 184cm or 192cm Rocker2 on that absolute fucking bomb of a back flip!!!

[Alkasquawlik]

192's mounted dead center.

[skinipenem]

Whats the real deal in when solly will come out with tech compatible inserts or at bindings?

Out of simple curiosity, I called solly and asked. I was told solly was focusing on alpine and would not have any at release for at least another year.

...finally I am strong enough to go back to work. I've wasted more time lately....

[thedrew55]

Well marker pretty much owns that portion on the market. Even if its subpar it still makes sense to own a part of the market. no? just me?

That is exactly the point from the corporations point of view.

From my point of view this is the sort of thing that hits my sweet spot. I'll never kill it like Alka, but I'll never tour as much as most of the guys in here. So why not get a binder that rails downhill that is capable of touring. I'd even take a heavier setup if it meant having the solid feel of a Sally on my feet. Well done Alka. Thanks for the scoop.

100th post. Does that make me JONG level 2?

[Scottish_Skier]

http://www.skirandomag.com/skirandomagazine/news/public/news2011/septembre/fixation_rando_salomon_prev.gif

More pics here

http://www.skirandomag.com/news/index.php?post%2F2011%2F09%2F03%2FNouvelle-fixation-de-rando-Salomon

[F#*k You Cat]

Alkasquawlik

When When When is this going to be released???
Maggot Group Buy??

[Skidog]

Alkasquawlik

When When When is this going to be released???
Maggot Group Buy??

From the sources i know...12/13...you'll have to wait my man...i heard somewhere that patience is a virtue.

[D(C)]

How about a shared mounting pattern with the Duke? An improved Duke is interesting but probably not to the point of drilling new holes or not being able to use DynaDukes.

[skimaxpower]

Is it just me, or does that look an awful lot like a Duke with a Solly heel?

Thoughts:
How/where does the AFD adjust for toe height of AT boots?
Is this yet another version of the Solly brake for retailers to stock? ug.
I wonder about hole pattern.. Same as Solly driver? Same as Duke? Yet another jig? ug.

[toast2266]

Is it just me, or does that look an awful lot like a Duke with a Solly heel?


...except with a totally different mechanism to switch to touring mode. I mean, what did you expect it to look like? Snub nose is necessary for pivot clearance, and I see no reason why Salomon wouldn't put a Salomon heal on the new Salomon binding.

Or did you just mean that it looks like a ski binding? In that case, yes, it looks very similar to the duke.

[skimaxpower]

^^ Hey, I'm not hating.

I was just commenting that it looked a Duke (in ways that a naxo, fritschi, or silveretta do not.) The similarities really are striking - even down to the pivot point and DIN window.

Seriously, it looks like a Duke. (That's not a bad thing, but it's noteworthy.)

http://www.skirandomag.com/skirandomagazine/news/public/news2011/septembre/fixation_rando_salomon_prev.gif

[XavierD]

Seriously, it looks like a Duke.

That is about 1/2 the height off the ski...

[Knut]

How/where does the AFD adjust for toe height of AT boots?


My bet: The screw on the middle/top of the toe piece adjusts toe piece height. With a lateral oriented release spring, a screw in that position doesn't make any sense for force-loading the screw/DIN-adjustment.
Therefore no AFD adjustment needed. More robust, lightweight and no change in heel lift. Sounds like a smart thing to me.

Elsewise the Marker similarities are striking. The design necessities are one thing, but look at how the heel unit is mounted to the frame. Looks exactly like on the F10/12's.

[Gone Skiing]

Looks like design evolution of a Fritschi more than a Duke to me. Wonder how stiff that toe interface is, as for me the magic of the duke is in the 6 attachment points each the toe and heel have to the ski when in ski mode.

[skimaxpower]

My bet: The screw on the middle/top of the toe piece adjusts toe piece height. With a lateral oriented release spring, a screw in that position doesn't make any sense for force-loading the screw/DIN-adjustment.

Thanks kinda what I was thinking too. But it seems too close to the boot toe?

The AFD doesn't appear to be on a sliding ramp like the Duke. So toe height's gotta be adjusted with a vertical screw. Right?

[Knut]

Maybe this screw isn't regulating the toe piece height, but just a kind of "lip" that is instead of the whole toe piece screwed down onto the boot?
Alternatively, the black part could just be a bedstop/limit for the horizontal sole positioning and the vertical forces are in the sole responsibility of the silvery wings. On the blow-up pic it looks a little like the step in the wings is discontinued in the black part. But that would mean quite some torque on the axle of the wings.
(caution: contains wild guessing ...)

[XXX-er]

the devil is in the details as they say and how they put it all togetehr and will stay together is the big question and you can only speculate this looking at a picture

you could have a traditional toe piece if you put a link up there a-la-Naxo but we know how that end up so its gona look like a duke

Sounds like they are doing a LOT of testing and not using the public as their crash-test-dummies as was the trend with everything from software to ski bindings, look at the Hammer Head tele binding development program which was a big success and on the other end of the spectrum of course the salomon boot thing that ended in a law suite

Salomon needs to get this product right

[gramboh]

Is this binding prone to icing up in the track like Dukes? Mine have a bit of slop from switching to ski mode without clearing out every single bit of ice. I'll probably replace them in a season or two, will definitely be looking at these as I've been on Salomon bindings my entire life (other than the Dukes).

[Gone Skiing]

As I said above, it appears these don't have a track, which makes sense since you can switch modes w/o taking your boot out. They're a wider, lower, stiffer Fritschi. Hopefully.

[JRainey]

Sounds like they are doing a LOT of testing and not using the public as their crash-test-dummies as was the trend with everything from software to ski bindings, look at the Hammer Head tele binding development program which was a big success and on the other end of the spectrum of course the salomon boot thing that ended in a law suite


While the Hammer Head program did use the public, they (the public) knew what they were getting into. 200 proto-pairs for sale at full retail, and a promised replacement with the next years production run (for free). The benefit of making people buy in was that: a)They would actually want to use the product(freebies aren't as valuable). b)You get honest, detailed feedback (opposed to, "Pretty good, brah").

While Salomon has the budget and the athlete roster to get good testing and feedback, I think smaller, indie, companies could benefit more from the Hammer Head model.

But what do I know?

Either way, these Bindings look nice. If they are solid enough to withstand inbounds abuse, I think they'll be a winner. I don't understand all the people asking, "How is this different from the dukes?". Isn't that what we want, a better duke? One without all the nagging issues and a lower stack height.

[XXX-er]

While the Hammer Head program did use the public, they knew what they were getting into. 200 proto-pairs for sale at full retail, and a promised replacement with the next years production run (for free). The benefit of making people buy in was that: a)They would actually want to use the product(freebies aren't as valuable). b)You get honest, detailed feedback (opposed to, "Pretty good, brah").

While Salomon has the budget and the athlete roster to get good testing and feedback, I think smaller, indie, companies could benefit more from the Hammer Head model.

But what do I know?.

well if your last name is Rainey ... maybe a lot?

The HH program was a well publicized deliberate attempt to use the public as test mules and so an indie company got a lot of testing done real fast as opposed to a big company bringing product to market so fast the public can become an unwitting test mule the difference is the end user being aware they are a potenial crash test dummiy

which IMO is what happened in the Salomon debacle and I would bet the resulting legal action has put the breaks(pun intended) on releasing inadequately tested products ?

[JRainey]

While the Hammer Head program did use the public, they (the public) knew what they were getting into.

I was agreeing with you, edited to make it more clear.

Releasing untested crap is not cool. Even those proto HH's had 1.5 seasons of testing under their belts.

Salomon is smart to work these out properly, good to see that they're learning.

[XXX-er]

I was agreeing with you, edited to make it more clear.

Releasing untested crap is not cool. Even those proto HH's had 1.5 seasons of testing under their belts.

Salomon is smart to work these out properly, good to see that they're learning.


yes of course and I most definatley appreciate your post and thank you for your perspective

[Alkasquawlik]

Looks like design evolution of a Fritschi more than a Duke to me. Wonder how stiff that toe interface is, as for me the magic of the duke is in the 6 attachment points each the toe and heel have to the ski when in ski mode.

Nah, it's definitely an evolution of a Duke more than a Fritschi. The toe interface is by far an away the stiffest, most responsive and most powerful interface I've tried to date.


Is this binding prone to icing up in the track like Dukes? Mine have a bit of slop from switching to ski mode without clearing out every single bit of ice. I'll probably replace them in a season or two, will definitely be looking at these as I've been on Salomon bindings my entire life (other than the Dukes).

While there is always a possibility that moving parts in contact with heaps of snow can be prone to ice up, I can saw that in my testing last year I never once experienced a problem with ice up after a tour. And I did ride them in the PNW, which seems like the perfect environment for creating ice up problems. The reports back from all the other athletes was that the instances of ice up was very low. As XXX-er says below, the devil is in the details and there are a few details that help this binding not ice up as easily as some other AT bindings out there.

[JRainey]

Hey alka,

Can you give up any info on the mounting pattern? Any chance it's the same as current salomons. DC was thinking dynaduke plates. I'm thinking sollyfit. Possible? Not Possible?

[Justin H]

Same mounting pattern so you could do 916s, solly AT, and dynafits with a sollyfit plate would be pretty epic.

[Alkasquawlik]

Hey alka,

Can you give up any info on the mounting pattern? Any chance it's the same as current salomons. DC was thinking dynaduke plates. I'm thinking sollyfit. Possible? Not Possible?

I don't know the details of the mounting, since they were factory mounted before they were sent to me last year, but I'm gonna say it's an entirely different mounting pattern. But I could be wrong and since I haven't been on them in many months I don't remember what the screw pattern looks like. So when it comes to dynadukes or sollyfits, I have no idea if it'll be possible or not.

(How's that for a vague answer...)

[D(C)]

Hey alka,

Can you give up any info on the mounting pattern? Any chance it's the same as current salomons. DC was thinking dynaduke plates. I'm thinking sollyfit. Possible? Not Possible?

I would love to see this happen - 3 bindings screwing into one plate. Sounds perfect and would be a serious selling point.

[Gone Skiing]

Nah, it's definitely an evolution of a Duke more than a Fritschi. The toe interface is by far an away the stiffest, most responsive and most powerful interface I've tried to date.



So is there a locking mechanism hidden in there we can't see? Or is it just the single pivot pin and the flat bottom of the rails and toe piece that interface with the ski?

Stoked to see them in person, hopefully they hold up.

[fatkid]

atomic paintjob....

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313406_10150312525970877_570955876_8422679_7868876 10_n.jpg

[Flexon Phil]

Some more pics on Epic...

http://www.epicski.com/t/105342/sneak-peek-2013-atomic-salomon-tracker-a-t-binding

[skimaxpower]

I don't know the details of the mounting, since they were factory mounted before they were sent to me last year, but I'm gonna say it's an entirely different mounting pattern. But I could be wrong and since I haven't been on them in many months I don't remember what the screw pattern looks like. So when it comes to dynadukes or sollyfits, I have no idea if it'll be possible or not.

(How's that for a vague answer...)

Yup. Entirely new pattern. Six screws in the heel alone!
http://cdn.epicski.com/c/cf/467x700px-LL-cff3f51e_IMG_9925.jpeg

[ectreeskier11]

Yup. Entirely new pattern. Six screws in the heel alone!
http://cdn.epicski.com/c/cf/467x700px-LL-cff3f51e_IMG_9925.jpeg

really like the way that looks, hooks into metal and not plastic, not track etc.

[D(C)]

I just wonder how this will affect flex. It seems like a pretty long mounting footprint.

[eshed]

^^^looks as though the ski will be able to flex underfoot somewhat. Those four metal hooks that hold the heel into ski mode are spring loaded. ie: they can move backwards. That is how the release to tour mode works. Push back on the black plastic piece with all the raised dots and free your heel (and your mind bro!).

I imagine that as the ski flexes, they would spring backwards as well, allowing the heel piece to slide back a bit. You don't need much to allow the ski to flex.

Did that make sense?

[jondrums]

Exciting!

I will say that as soon as I can get my hands on a pair of these, there will be a plate option to swap with dynafit. It is possible that I can modify the sollyfit plate design to fit these as well.

From looking at this pic, it looks like the hole pattern MIGHT be the same in the heel, with the addition of two more holes in the middle. I'll have to do some more measuring on the image to see.
http://cdn.epicski.com/7/78/600x400px-LL-78a3eaa1_IMG_9924.jpeg

The toe-piece seems unlikely to have the same hole pattern, but its very hard to tell.

[Alkasquawlik]

^^^looks as though the ski will be able to flex underfoot somewhat. Those four metal hooks that hold the heel into ski mode are spring loaded. ie: they can move backwards. That is how the release to tour mode works. Push back on the black plastic piece with all the raised dots and free your heel (and your mind bro!).

I imagine that as the ski flexes, they would spring backwards as well, allowing the heel piece to slide back a bit. You don't need much to allow the ski to flex.

Did that make sense?

Spot on. They're calling it Free Flex technology.

[1000-oaks]

Couple questions: How do the latches lock in the "open" position for free-heeling without the climbing bar? And how wide are the slots for the latches, in case you're side-hilling it (without the climbing bar) and the frame tweaks to the side a little bit?

[gregL]

They're calling it Free Flex technology.

I'm fine with that, so long as they snap back fast enough when the ski rebounds to keep the binding from flying open.

[gregL]

Couple questions: How do the latches lock in the "open" position for free-heeling without the climbing bar?

Looks like they don't. Maybe just push the climbing wire forward so it holds the frame above the hooks?

[Jethro]

Kinda looks like my old 1990 era Emery binding which I retrofitted with MRR heels. Preceded the Diamirs by a few years. Probably as prone to ice build up also.

[eshed]

Spot on. They're calling it Free Flex technology.

I'm so right!

[DerekPersson]

192's mounted dead center.

Don't mean to threadjack here, but how well did the 192's do all around mounted center...I'm roughly your size and was thinking about -2.5 to -3.5 for mine but how did they do in that position while you were charging? Tip dive issues?

[1000-oaks]

I'm fine with that, so long as they snap back fast enough when the ski rebounds to keep the binding from flying open.

Awesome, insta-tele off short kickers...the tall-T's will be so jealous of these ninja binding moves.


Looks like they don't. Maybe just push the climbing wire forward so it holds the frame above the hooks?

That's probably it, see the dark wear line on the rearmost "bridge" where the climbing bar would rest?

[Alkasquawlik]

Don't mean to threadjack here, but how well did the 192's do all around mounted center...I'm roughly your size and was thinking about -2.5 to -3.5 for mine but how did they do in that position while you were charging? Tip dive issues?

Never once had an issue with tip dive, I would strongly recommend -2.5 and definitely no more than -3.5. Now back to the Atomi....eh hem.... Salomon binding.

-Greg L is on for the manner of touring mode. But yes, they snap back fast enough. And by snap back fast enough I mean that I've never once popped out of ski mode and into touring mode.

[Southeast Maggot]

Exciting!

I will say that as soon as I can get my hands on a pair of these, there will be a plate option to swap with dynafit. It is possible that I can modify the sollyfit plate design to fit these as well.


jondrums, do all of your plates have the same mounting profile, e.g. would I be able to swap DynaDuke plates for SollyAT plates with the same holes?

[DerekPersson]

Never once had an issue with tip dive, I would strongly recommend -2.5 and definitely no more than -3.5.

Right on, thanks Cody.

[Knut]

Looks like they don't. Maybe just push the climbing wire forward so it holds the frame above the hooks?


That's probably it, see the dark wear line on the rearmost "bridge" where the climbing bar would rest?

That would mean three steps necessary to free your heel: Push down lever, while actively lifting your heel and then bring riser bar into position (1 or 2). Not too smart a way do do it in my eyes.

[zombinate]

Any word if there will be any differentiation between the Atomic and Salomon bindings, or if it is just paint?

Given the companies histories, I would think they would try making the Atomic a bit lighter for a "rando-race" version, and the Salomon a bit more burly for a "Freeski" version.

[bern43]

/\/\ My guess is that they'll be exactly the same except for graphics.

[Skidog]

That would mean three steps necessary to free your heel: Push down lever, while actively lifting your heel and then bring riser bar into position (1 or 2). Not too smart a way do do it in my eyes.

Oh yes its MUCH harder than actually taking the ski off your foot, moving a lever, putting ski back on and STILL having to fuck with a climbing wire...Stick with the duke or trekker bro.

[PhiberAwptik]

Any word if there will be any differentiation between the Atomic and Salomon bindings, or if it is just paint?

Given the companies histories, I would think they would try making the Atomic a bit lighter for a "rando-race" version, and the Salomon a bit more burly for a "Freeski" version.

Have you seen Atomic's freeski team?

[Alkasquawlik]

Any word if there will be any differentiation between the Atomic and Salomon bindings, or if it is just paint?

Given the companies histories, I would think they would try making the Atomic a bit lighter for a "rando-race" version, and the Salomon a bit more burly for a "Freeski" version.

Stickers and paint. Nothing else.

[gregL]

Given the companies histories, I would think they would try making the Atomic a bit lighter for a "rando-race" version

Atomic's history is mostly in alpine racing, not randonnée, but if they think a "Duke/Freeride/Pure" fusion is going to cut it with the light-is-right crowd they need to take a closer look at the competition: http://www.pierregignoux.fr/France/PackUltimate.php

[eshed]

Awesome, insta-tele off short kickers...the tall-T's will be so jealous of these ninja binding moves.

insta-tele to knee tap on front of ski while simultaneously tailtapping a tree! Binding locks back into ski mode by the landing...switch, of course...pretty sick if you ask me.

[f2f]

http://www.pierregignoux.fr/France/PackUltimate.php


great. now i have to know this exists.

[PhiberAwptik]

Atomic's history is mostly in alpine racing, not randonnée, but if they think a "Duke/Freeride/Pure" fusion is going to cut it with the light-is-right crowd they need to take a closer look at the competition: http://www.pierregignoux.fr/France/PackUltimate.php


I would say they could give a fuck less about the hardcore ultralight rando crowd.

[Knut]

Oh yes its MUCH harder than actually taking the ski off your foot, moving a lever, putting ski back on and STILL having to fuck with a climbing wire...Stick with the duke or trekker bro.

Just because one thing sucks, doesn't mean just a little better is great.

[1000-oaks]

I hear the whining already...ice buildup somehow prevents three of the four hooks from latching when switching to DH mode, then the single overloaded hook breaks or comes undone...insta-tele.

Then Atomic AT binding owners end up having to take the ski off to make sure it's ice-free & fully locked, just like Duke owners.

[hutash]

So, at the end of the day, if you are already on a Duke is it going to be worth it switching to this new binder? I mean for all us dentists here, not the likes of Alkasquawlik.

[eshed]

I hear the whining already...ice buildup somehow prevents three of the four hooks from latching when switching to DH mode, then the single overloaded hook breaks or comes undone...insta-tele.

Then Atomic AT binding owners end up having to take the ski off to make sure it's ice-free & fully locked, just like Duke owners.

If the design is smart....all four hooks move as a unit. There is no way one could hook and others not. All or nothing.

[arild]

Loaned from freeride.se:

http://www.friflyt.no/var/friflyt/storage/images/friflyt.no/ski/duke-killer-fra-ekteparet-salomon-atomic/1661004-1-nor-NO/Duke-killer-fra-ekteparet-Salomon-Atomic_fancybox.jpg

[Dude Bro]

thats looking sexy

[Skidog]

im told this will drop today..there will or has already been a press release sent

[murph]

http://www.salomonfreeski.com/us/minisites/guardian/

[PhiberAwptik]

Such good porn. I want this so bad.


INB4 "Dynafit, blah, blah, blah."

[grskier]

Looks nice... toe piece looks a lot like a Duke, but the pivot looks a few mm back.....

16 din doesn't surprise me
Looks easier (and they market it as such) to get in and out of tour mode.

[F#*k You Cat]

OK time to talk Group Buy

54321 blast - off

[XavierD]

Such good porn. I want this so bad.


INB4 "Dynafit, blah, blah, blah."

Plum, blah blah blah.

But seriously, this is sexy.

[ectreeskier11]

OK time to talk Group Buy

54321 blast - off

we're talking salomon/atomic here not gonna happen...

[dps]

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if it has been posted already, but is there a stand height and weight as of yet?

[Lamothe]

this is looking pretty sexy . good looking binding and the 16 din is nice . If this thing can handle the odd booter as well im fucking sold

[VTsession]

http://www.salomonfreeski.com/us/minisites/guardian/

Certainly looks like Salomon's version of the Duke.

Any word on an MSRP yet? Did I miss it in the this endless thread?

[Alkasquawlik]

No announcement on MSRP and finished weight for those that are asking.

Lamothe- Scan through this thread and you'll notice that it definitely can handle the odd booter or two.

Hutash- If you ever thought of your Dukes as sloppy, didn't like the stack height, or broke anything on them then I'd say yes in a heartbeat.

[Jumper Bones]

Cody - if you don't have the climbing bar in position, if you step down too far in-stride will the heel hooks lock the binding down, making you have to hit the button to release it again?

[Alkasquawlik]

Cody - if you don't have the climbing bar in position, if you step down too far in-stride will the heel hooks lock the binding down, making you have to hit the button to release it again?

Yup, you got it.

[Lamothe]

do want!!!

[F#*k You Cat]

Cody -- will AMER show any love to the maggots with a group buy?

[sqikunst]

Cody -- will AMER show any love to the maggots with a group buy?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA made my day!!!!!!!!!

[XXX-er]

Cody -- will AMER show any love to the maggots with a group buy?

uh I thot mags hated Salomon or AMER or SFT?

[Beyond]

^^^^^ Seriously, this is that "would you do it for 10 million, would you do it for 10, what do you think I am, now we're just haggling over price..." joke. Gear whores unite!

[XXX-er]

^^^ this reminds me of a line the episode in "Northern Exposure" where Barry Corbin playing Maurice Minnifield the republican/ex astronaut/business man doesnt wana sell the gay couple his rental house to build a b&b ... until they offer to double the asking price

In a texas drawl Maurice exclaims something like "at 28,000$ I have a moral imperative ,at 56000$ we are talking cold hard cash!"


edit:Even as all the over the top hate was being posted on the boycott amer/solly I was pretty sure y'all would cave and buy Salomon again

[billyhoyle]

This looks sick! Tours like a Diamir, skis like a Duke (I'm guessing), what's not to love? Hopefully Salomon didn't skimp on the field-testing this time around...

[Skidog]

This looks sick! Tours like a Diamir, skis like a Duke (I'm guessing), what's not to love? Hopefully Salomon didn't skimp on the field-testing this time around...

did you read this fucking thread at all Jong??? Pretty sure theres at least one pic of Alka shootin a HUGE road gap upside down...and ummm many many other reports of how he hasnt had one issue and he's banging on them...wait..i think there was a road incident...oh yeah...they fell off the roof of the car at like 60mph or something.

[This End Up]

edit:Even as all the over the top hate was being posted on the boycott amer/solly I was pretty sure y'all would cave and buy Salomon again Similar to the hate for Marker bindings, until the duke came out.

[XXX-er]

Similar to the hate for Marker bindings, until the duke came out.

Therefore a logical assumption is that the happening mag will be hating marker ... but not until ext season ?

[hutash]

Hutash- If you ever thought of your Dukes as sloppy, didn't like the stack height, or broke anything on them then I'd say yes in a heartbeat.

No to all of the above, so I will just use mine for the time being.

Thanks for the reply

[billyhoyle]

did you read this fucking thread at all Jong??? Pretty sure theres at least one pic of Alka shootin a HUGE road gap upside down...and ummm many many other reports of how he hasnt had one issue and he's banging on them...wait..i think there was a road incident...oh yeah...they fell off the roof of the car at like 60mph or something.

Heh, that's the first time I've been Jonged.

Ya, I read the thread. I'm not saying that I doubt the quality, and it's looking like they'll be killer - it was more a reference to the Quest debacle.

[jondrums]

it was more a reference to the Quest debacle


Lets drop the quest crap - its probably a totally different engineering/product release team. Maybe even in a different city or country than the binding engineering. More than likely it was a product manager (who works in the marketing department) who rushed the product out while the engineers complained that there wasn't enough testing. I'd guess that person was quietly fired.

Moreover, I consider the duke to be a debacle. It was supposed to address the "hard-charging skier who tours" market, but turned out to be better for the "wanna-be hard charging skier, who wants to say they tour" market.

[Randolph Duke]

^^^^ meh I dont agree at all with that, clearly the duke hit its mark, its fucking every where. I used them the first year and still use them this year and love them. Skied every touring binder out there non tech and nothing comes close and these look no different. Duke or Plums/Dynafit for me. Why go in between? I just see a whole bunch of johnny come lately touring gear scrambling to make some money off the AT market because now they finally deemed it viable after the duke and dynafit paved the way. I'll take my wannabe ass on 100+ days again this year on the skin track. ;)

[D(C)]

I am also not sure the Duke missed the mark. I've been pretty happy with mine after a season and don't really feel any noticeable difference between them and an alpine binding, other than a touch of height. I would take a flat touring mode at the expense of being able to transition with my skis on when it comes to a downhill-oriented binding. The icy track is a bit of a bummer at times but not the end of the world. Also, the track system seems pretty smart in terms of a more normal mounting platform, rather than the longer footprint required by having to latch down the heel from behind.

[Gone Skiing]

Dukes do what they were meant to do. And if you take care of them, they last pretty damn well. Every bit as well as 916s do these days. Ask Z, he skis as hard as anyone and spent 5 years on one pair of dukes. I competed on Dukes all last year, and I wasn't by any means the only one. I've also done multiple 15+ mile, 7000' tours on mine. No, they don't tour like Dynafits, but these won't either (which is why I'm going to be using the Green Mountain Freeride system).

Dukes also have a 3 year warranty still, and Salomon just dropped their binding warranty to 1 year.

[SuperGaper]

Hey Jondrums-

The different engineering department that has developed bindings like 916 driver where the toe wings fall off, or 914 and 912 spheric where the toe wings loosen up every 2 minutes, or the 912 Ti where the heel tracks all break, or the incredibly lame Pro-Pulse binding (which broke all the time), or the inventors of the hostage plate (pilot system)- Would you call that a good track record?

[Beyond]

^^^^ Seriously. All companies have one or two screwup designs, but Solly seems to specialize in them across the board. IMO this is a culture that has come to accept mediocre quality control. I want the AT to be different, but that requires a change in culture, not transferring a product manager.

[pisteoff]

the duke and dynafit paved the way.

Lulz... you must be young. Dynafit and Fritschi have been making touring binders since the 80s. The TLT is functionally identical to the early 90s version. I'll concede that the duke paved the way for hoards of jongs to get a little farther past the ropes, though.

@ D(C)
I agree. My only issue with them is that they pre-release like a mofo with touring boots.

@ supergaper
When I worked in a shop, I absolutely hated salomon for exactly those reasons. And they made shitty skis back then too.

[Alkasquawlik]

While I don't want to discount anyone's opinions, wasn't this the place that had Marker as the butt of jokes for a decade? If that is the case than obviously track records can't always accurately predict the future. If anyone is worried about this binding just remember that we started working on this binding 5 years ago. I've seen more prototypes than I care to mention and spent two full years on the finalizing of the binder you now see. No Pilot System-like blunders (god that shit sucked) have influenced the design of this binding. (maybe that should be a disclaimer on the box)

[Arty50]

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he
wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

[Randolph Duke]

^^^^ I can get a good look at a tbone steak by sticking my head up a cow's ass but i would rather take the butchers word


Pisteoff- very wrong, I said I have been touring on all the iterations since the 80's my friend. I said that the duke paved the way for the alpine binder that tours segment and dynafit paved the way in the tech segment. No matter what you say the 12 din ft12 is what started to get more people excited on dynafit, poll people on TGR that ski dynafit and see which model they use, I am certain the ft12 will win by a lot. Fritche, until the free ride and plus( which are still weak imo) did not have a viable broader market touring binding appeal. Marker brought an AT binding to the masses. That is all.

[pisteoff]

...the duke paved the way for the alpine binder that tours segment and dynafit paved the way in the tech segment. No matter what you say the 12 din ft12 is what started to get more people excited on dynafit, poll people on TGR that ski dynafit and see which model they use, I am certain the ft12 will win by a lot. Fritche, until the free ride and plus( which are still weak imo) did not have a viable broader market touring binding appeal. Marker brought an AT binding to the masses. That is all.

Yeah, agreed. In your earlier post I thought you were equating the two as bindings that pioneered the sport of rando skiing, which is sort of true for the dynafits, but not the markers.

As a side note, marker did make a touring version of the rotomat back in the 60s or 70s. I know this because we had a pair on our shop wall as ski-history-art. They bore more than a little resemblance to dukes too.

[b dubya]

While I don't want to discount anyone's opinions, wasn't this the place that had Marker as the butt of jokes for a decade? If that is the case than obviously track records can't always accurately predict the future. If anyone is worried about this binding just remember that we started working on this binding 5 years ago. I've seen more prototypes than I care to mention and spent two full years on the finalizing of the binder you now see. No Pilot System-like blunders (god that shit sucked) have influenced the design of this binding. (maybe that should be a disclaimer on the box)

so... what are you saying? That we need a new bandwagon?

[Alkasquawlik]

Your father could sell a ketchup popsicle to to a woman in white gloves.

b-dubya: yeah the Tommy Boy bandwagon.

[jondrums]

I guess that what we really need then is a touring binding made by rossignol/look, huh?

[SiSt]

I guess that what we really need then is a touring binding made by rossignol/look, huh?

Indeedelydoo.

There have been some rumours about this, but nothing substantial. At least, there'll be some competition in this segment now.

[SaSSafraS_LTK]

There is some very close-up footage of these at 1:10:

http://vimeo.com/32149765

[Hugh Conway]

I guess that what we really need then is a touring binding made by rossignol/look, huh?

petzl sk'alp, later version, solly toe, look heel.

not much different than a duke

[Bird Blaster]

still no estimated drop date? grrr

[TheDon]

wasn't this the place that had Marker as the butt of jokes for a decade?

True but just like they made a kick-a product and changed our minds. Just like Salomon has made tons of rad products over the years and had an accident with the quest. People threw them under the buss. On the other hand I believe in Salomon products and don't think that one accident makes them the suck. To me I just look at is as progress. Salomon learned from Marker and will be improving on the the Duke, I think it is great. In a few years maybe they'll redesign the duke from what Solly does and make it better too.

[Sinecure]

still no estimated drop date? grrr

Next season is what they've said.

[TheDon]

There is some very close-up footage of these at 1:10:

http://vimeo.com/32149765


They look money.


Now they just need to be cool and make enough so shop guys can get them. This year has been a joke/impossible to get a pair of the rocker2's.