Most avalanche prone resort in the US?

[FreakofSnow]

I'm doing some research and trying to find out if there any stats on the web that show the most avy prone resorts in the US. So far I've only been able to locate that Bridger and Big Sky are 2nd and 4th according to http://www.state.mt.us/dma/DES/Avalanche.htm.

Anyone have some pointers on finding this?

[Blurred]

prolly not Silverton.

[Ski Beaver]

go and try them all out.

I'll take notes.

[SherpaStyle]

Last year I heard a statistic that Silverton uses the most avy explosives in the lower 48 and Snowbird is a close 2nd...if that's relative at all.

[powstash]

too bad the Bird can't get anything open with all those bombs. Friggin' Bird. pfft.

[FreakofSnow]

bump, someone's gotta have some insight on this. :confused:

[Blurred]

I'll let the cat out of the bag. Keystone Colorado is the most avalanche prone place EVER.

[homerjay]

I'll let the cat out of the bag. Keystone Colorado is the most avalanche prone place EVER.

:biggrin:
duuuuuude, I heard someone kicked of a slide on a cat track. siiiiiick.

[TeleAl]

maybe contact AIARE.
http://www.avtraining.org/

[cmsummit]

Ski Cooper? ;)

I'd have to say Silverton with the combination of terrain and deadly, unstable snow pack.

[Lane Meyer]

Last year I heard a statistic that Silverton uses the most avy explosives in the lower 48 and Snowbird is a close 2nd...if that's relative at all.

Actually, I think Squaw uses the most in the lower 48 - I'll call up someone at Patrol and see if this is true.

[phUnk]

Actually, I think Squaw uses the most in the lower 48 - I'll call up someone at Patrol and see if this is true.
Dude, they do everything bigger at Squaw.

[Buster Highmen]

Crystal and Alpental figure significantly in avie statistics and have laid claim to some variant of avalanche extrema.
But weren't we more concerned with Nellie's furry tado?

[Lane Meyer]

Dude, they do everything bigger at Squaw.

I'm glad at least someone saw through my apparently truthful post and uncovered the fact that it was 100% SARCASM.

[killclimbz]

Alpine had one of the nasiest inbounds avy's ever. It took out the base lodge and employee shack. That has to rank them up there. It was in the early 80's. Maybe 84?

[freshies]

Alpine had one of the nasiest inbounds avy's ever. It took out the base lodge and employee shack. That has to rank them up there. It was in the early 80's. Maybe 84?

crazy shit..before my time...but have been skiing @ Alpine for 10 yrs now, and have heard the stories. Good read on it here if ya have some time:

http://www.avalanche.org/~moonstone/TAR/avi%20review%20articles/1One%20Expert%27s%20Recollections.htm

[joshbu]

I don't know if you can call one resort more or less avalanche prone than any others. Is it measured by acres of terrain that is are potential slide paths? In that case, Whistler/Blackcomb. Is it measured in terms of accidents or inbounds slides? In which case, is that just a failure of control? Is it measured in pounds of explosive? What is a resort is just operating on the safe side?

In general, more avalanche accidents happen in Colorado than anywhere else. It's a combination of the population and the nature of the snowpack there. If that helps at all.

[AntiSoCalSkier]

I remember hearing that Alpine uses more explosives on a single morning of avalanche control than Vail uses in an entire season.

(Of course, now that I think about it, does Vail do any avy control work? If not, this is like saying that Alpine uses more explosives in a single morning than Mountain Creek has used in the resort's history.)

[cmsummit]

I don't know if you can call one resort more or less avalanche prone than any others. Is it measured by acres of terrain that is are potential slide paths? In that case, Whistler/Blackcomb. Is it measured in terms of accidents or inbounds slides? In which case, is that just a failure of control? Is it measured in pounds of explosive? What is a resort is just operating on the safe side?

Very true, but if you based it on the percentage of terrain that can potential slide, Silverton would win hands down. The WHOLE mountain is 35-55 deg. The entire east side and 50% of the west side of the mountain is nothing but a series of slide paths and gullies. Couple that terrain with our deadly CO snowpack(thin w/cold temps) and you got yourself a winner. Of course, Silverton isn't really a resort.

The San Juans = avalanche capital of the U.S. Your most avalanche prone resorts are going to have continental snowpack not that stable maritime snowpack we here in CO like to call Sierra Cement.

[cj001f]

Your most avalanche prone resorts are going to have continental snowpack not that stable maritime snowpack we here in CO like to call Sierra Cement.
eh? Most avalanches occur after precipitation/snowfall. More precip = more avalanches. WB - steep, lots of storms, lots of control work after the storm.

[cmsummit]

More precip = more avalanches.

Very untrue. The formula is not quite that simple. Think you need to enroll in an avy class.

[Son1cdeth]

I remember hearing that Alpine uses more explosives on a single morning of avalanche control than Vail uses in an entire season.

(Of course, now that I think about it, does Vail do any avy control work? If not, this is like saying that Alpine uses more explosives in a single morning than Mountain Creek has used in the resort's history.)

Not sure if I've seen them doing much before this weekend. But they were out in force Saturday morning, bombed several slides loose in the Blue Sky area (where that huge cornice builds up). They were also in one of the gate BC areas letting some bombs go. I heard at least 4 - 5 while we were back there Saturday morning.

[Jumper Bones]

Dude, they do everything bigger at Squaw.

including the fat chicks?

not so sure I want to go there, then.

[SIIHP]

Probably doesn't have much of what you are lookin for, but interesting...

http://www.avalanchemapping.org/avatlas.htm

[cmsummit]

Probably doesn't have much of what you are lookin for, but interesting...

Cool maps. :cool:

[boarderline]

Slight highjack: Have you guys set off slides inbounds? I've only done it once: a soft slab about 20' feet wide on a 3 foot powder day on the Great Western Bowl at Brighton three seasons ago. Scared the poop outta me as it ran down to the bottom of the bowl into some trees.

[joshbu]

Very untrue. The formula is not quite that simple. Think you need to enroll in an avy class.

<pedantic>
Well, at a first glance you might think so, but at a second glance, there is merit in what cj is saying. Most snow that falls on a slope that could slide eventually will. That's to say: big wet snow avys in June, July and August, for example. So, in that regard, the more snow exists in the the pack, the more avys it will take before it's all been brought down.

Now, if you said that the corelation between snow depth and avalanche danger is much more complicated, well, I have no argument there.
</pedantic>

Hey FoS:

What are you trying to accomplish here? In many ways, "danger" is like the tree faliing in the forest, there has to be someone there to be in danger. Also, many of the areas that would be the most dangerous in a natual setting are so rigorously controlled that they are in fact safe.

Or those areas are simply out of bounds entirely.

For example, Crystal has simply closed the most active avy paths that slide in bounds. (Big yellow block outs on the Crystal trailmap.) Now they aren't part of the resort, so does it make Crystal "safer?"

[cj001f]

Very untrue. The formula is not quite that simple. Think you need to enroll in an avy class.
You're saying a majority of avalanches don't occur after new precipitation? I'd suggest you take a class.

[cj001f]

<pedantic>
Well, at a first glance you might think so, but at a second glance, there is merit in what cj is saying. Most snow that falls on a slope that could slide eventually will. That's to say: big wet snow avys in June, July and August, for example. So, in that regard, the more snow exists in the the pack, the more avys it will take before it's all been brought down.
I was going with the broader sense that a majority of avalanches occur during and immediately following a precipitation event. Particularly in a maritime climate - where the developlment of persistent weak layers is not as common as in continental climes. Ski areas are concerned with both possible human triggered slides and natural slides - why control work is done on areas not open to the public, but which could slide onto open runs.

[FreakofSnow]

<pedantic>
Well, at a first glance you might think so, but at a second glance, there is merit in what cj is saying. Most snow that falls on a slope that could slide eventually will. That's to say: big wet snow avys in June, July and August, for example. So, in that regard, the more snow exists in the the pack, the more avys it will take before it's all been brought down.

Now, if you said that the corelation between snow depth and avalanche danger is much more complicated, well, I have no argument there.
</pedantic>

Hey FoS:

What are you trying to accomplish here? In many ways, "danger" is like the tree faliing in the forest, there has to be someone there to be in danger. Also, many of the areas that would be the most dangerous in a natual setting are so rigorously controlled that they are in fact safe.

Or those areas are simply out of bounds entirely.

For example, Crystal has simply closed the most active avy paths that slide in bounds. (Big yellow block outs on the Crystal trailmap.) Now they aren't part of the resort, so does it make Crystal "safer?"

What I am after is purely a list, say top 10 most avalanche prone resorts in the US.

I would expect that prone would be equated to numbers of slide paths that have the potential to hurt-kill-do-damage IN combination with the expected/average annual snowfall.

For instance, Bridger has numerous slide paths AND gets 350" annually (sometimes) AND these slide paths all dump on to Intermediate-Beginner terrain.

And to your Crystal question, I would say that yes, those closed runs that have the potential to slide DOES in fact make it more safe. Which is basically my question, In Bounds avalanche potential...

[iceman]

edit: replied to something on page 1 without realizing there was a page 2.

[joshbu]

I was going with the broader sense that a majority of avalanches occur during and immediately following a precipitation event. Particularly in a maritime climate - where the developlment of persistent weak layers is not as common as in continental climes. Ski areas are concerned with both possible human triggered slides and natural slides - why control work is done on areas not open to the public, but which could slide onto open runs.

Awesome, even when we agree, we still disagree. :biggrin:

[cj001f]

Awesome, even when we agree, we still disagree. :biggrin:
It's a skill with me. Freakin' Finn heritage :biggrin:

[cmsummit]

You're saying a majority of avalanches don't occur after new precipitation? I'd suggest you take a class.

I've taken many avy classes, thank you very much. I'm just saying that your blanket statement of "more precip = more avalanches" is not necessarily true. There are too many other factors involved. Here in CO, a lack of snowpack actually contributes to the occurance of avalanches. When your temperature gradient between the ground and the air above the snowpack differs by more than 1-2deg C per meter of snowpack, then depth hoar forms. The slightest windloading or snowfall can cause it to rip all the way to the ground. This is a case of where too little snow can be more dangerous than having "more" snow. This is usually the case around here early season.

[cmsummit]

I was going with the broader sense that a majority of avalanches occur during and immediately following a precipitation event.
Shit, should have made that clear to begin with. Instead of trying to pass the "more precip = more avalanches".

[cj001f]

I've taken many ..... here early season.
yes. It was a simplistic statement. I didn't qualify it, and you are correct.

[cmsummit]

I've taken many..... here early season.
diggers?
bingers?
core shots....oh yeah!

[tele mark]

I've taken many avy classes, thank you very much. I'm just saying that your blanket statement of "more precip = more avalanches" is not necessarily true. There are too many other factors involved. Here in CO, a lack of snowpack actually contributes to the occurance of avalanches. When your temperature gradient between the ground and the air above the snowpack differs by more than 1-2deg C per meter of snowpack, then depth hoar forms. The slightest windloading or snowfall can cause it to rip all the way to the ground. This is a case of where too little snow can be more dangerous than having "more" snow. This is usually the case around here early season.

The difference between a thin and weak snowpack vs. a thick and strong one is readily contrasted in the central Wasatch. The tri-canyons typically build a snowpack quick enough that depth hoar is rarely a problem, however the PC side of the range has more of a CO style snowpack; as such it stays thin and week for much of the season. The magical depth (not scientifically proven yet nevertheless a consistent observation) is ~3 ft. Less than that and depth hoar formation is prevalent, more than 3' and depth hoar formation is minimalized. There was also in article in Couloir a few yrs. back where a WA forecastor noted that a 3' slab also tends to have sufficient strength to bridge weak spots, whereas thinner packs don't possess that strength.

The only major ride I ever took in a slide was in-bounds at Big Sky. ~300' -400' ride on a wind slab, lookers left of the tram. Fortunately I was able to self arrest and stopped just a few ft/ above a rock rib. Ski patrol closed the run after watching me take the ride. :rolleyes: Tom Kimbrough, recently retired UAFC forecaster; was an Alpine Meadows patroller when the slide happened there. He claimed he always wore a beacon, even in-bounds; following the incident.

[Plakespear]

Wow- who else is suprised that Punani hasn't posted a quote from Blizzard?

[hucksquaw]

Have you guys set off slides inbounds?

surprisingly ive set off a couple small sliders at Squaw.

1.saw a chute in enchanted forest. theres was a small dead tree growing right at the top of the opening and i saw a place for fresh tracks so i dropped in. cut in just under the tree and thats all that was holding the snow, i made about half a turn and took a digger head first. rolled like once or twice on top of the slide and came up on my skis but i was buried thigh deep. i looked up and i had gone like a hundred+ feet, snow had broken off just under that damn tree.

2. off red dog ridge i dropped into the gully just before the trees. dropped a little cornice at the top and i guess one of my buddies behind me broke it loose. slide came down small but fast. had no idea it was coming and took my legs out from under me. took me for a ride for a couple hundred feet but nothing serious.

[Stealth Radness]

I remember seeing a little sidebar in Powder 10+ years ago with a top 3 or 5 resorts on this subject. I believe the stat they used was # of slides (controlled and uncontrolled?) set off on an average yearly basis. The places I remember on that list included Alta, Bird, Stevens Pass, and Alpine Meadows.