New ATK touring binding (weight weenies rejoice)

[Patches]

Wish I had the $$$. Looks beautiful, and is supposedly 170g each:
http://www.atkrace.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=38:atk-race-rt&lang=en

http://www.atkrace.com/media/k2/items/cache/36fdb1a35cd2f54f95cf2119fb5bc7ed_L.jpg

[skimaxpower]

Looks sexy, but ... No climbing bar?

[skimaxpower]

Ok, I see. it has two levels for climbing. Pictured below is the "high" option. No other option for steeper terrain.
http://www.atkrace.com/plugins/content/plugin_jw_sig/showthumb.php?img=38/tn_TORRETTA-POSTERIORE-ATTACCO-RT-3.jpg&width=200&height=200&quality=80

[Patches]

Looks like there is an optional plastic riser... top left pic via the link. I couldn't figure out how to grab it.

[lynchdogger]

Quality looking product. Nice machine work. Dynafit knock off? Would love to hear how comparable to Dynafit as far as skiability and durability? To what model in the Dynafit lineup would these most compare? Anyone with experience with these yet or are they brandy new? How much weight does the extra climbing riser add (minimal I'm sure) and can you leave it on for the down (I would hope)? US? I love shit like this - such a sucker for new gear. :D

[cat in january]

Yeah I thought I saw a heel riser in the picture, but wow sticker shock. I would wonder about durability with that type of weight. Nice for racing, maybe not for every day touring.

What I found interesting was they claimed adjustable toe release. Not much information on the web site, but that could be a nice development.

[agent j]

460 euros. comparable to ft12 retail? Isn't the the atk rt DIN 12, toe adjustable to 12 as well? definitely interesting.

[cat in january]

Well the photos show the toe having an adjustment range to 9 and the heel to 10 for vertical and horizontal. As a consumer it is nice to see the competition with Dynafit's patent expiring. As shown by the G3 it is good to wait and see how the production model fairs before jumping in. Wish Traub would get their binding out there, that is the one which piques my interest. What is it, 2 years late already?

[harpo-the-skier]

it doesn't look like the heel is adjustable for length. Better be good at mounting these, and know what boot you are going to use them with.

[skimaxpower]

Looks like there is an optional plastic riser... top left pic via the link. I couldn't figure out how to grab it.

Here it is. Wonder how much the riser weighs. :tongue:
http://www.atkrace.com/plugins/content/plugin_jw_sig/showthumb.php?img=38/tn_ALZATACCO-RT.jpg&width=200&height=200&quality=80

[skimaxpower]

it doesn't look like the heel is adjustable for length. Better be good at mounting these, and know what boot you are going to use them with.

Definitely a valid criticism. It also removes the possibility of using two different pairs of AT boots.

I wonder about the mounting pattern. It looks somewhat similar to a Dynafit TLT Speed? (With only four screws in the toe.)

Adjustable toe release is pretty cool. Amazing that they added features and trimmed weight at the same time.

[Patches]

They sell plates you can put the back on to add adjustability. 25g per ski, which gets you to 195 per binder vs 335 for TLT speeds

[harpo-the-skier]

Looks like the Din only goes to 9 in front, but 10 in back? Anyone know how long the heel pins are, and how many sizes you can adjust for if you add the plate that patches is talking about?

[Patches]

Doubt the front pins do traditional lateral release... more likely it's a release value for skinning (i.e. when locked out and heel not engaged).

Plate adjusts 40mm total travel.

Mount pattern looks like standard dynafit mount pattern (minus 5th hole in front).

[freak]

how is this adjustement mechanism at the toepiece working? i simply dont get it from the picture... looks like there is a screw to adjust something, but how will it change anything at the springs?

freak[http://www.freeskiers.net/community/images/smilies/fish.gif&http://www.freeskiers.net/community/images/smilies/ghost.gif]

[Patches]

Picture what the front of the binding would look like if you pull the toe lever into tour mode. The bottom end of the pulled lever would rest on the tip of the grey part of the binding; thats where the screw would change a tension. Thats why I think the front screw is just for when you are in tour mode.

[Jonathan S.]

Basically what Patches said, but it's also eliminating the role of the ski topskin from the binding functionality: with any Dynafit toe -- except for the race model, both current and prior years -- the end of the toe lever is creating resistance against the plastic bump on the toe plate, but in turn that's pressed up against the ski topskin. Hence Lou is always stressing that the # of clicks is irrelevant (although I think he overstates the case) b/c it all depends on exactly how the mount is set up and the minute variations in the ski topskin, etc. With the Dynafit race toe, this variable is eliminated, since the "bump" is part of the binding (instead of a separate mounting shim). The ATK adds to this with a screw-adjustable resistance level. Looks like moving the screw forces apart the metal wedge. Now, granted the 5-10 range at the heel doesn't officially correspond to DIN specs, but still, my own limited testing of Dynafit bindings has shown it to pass alpine downhill DIN testing procedures. However, what the ATK #s at the toe are supposed to reference has to be something totally different?

[Jonathan S.]

BTW, the pics clearly show a readout scale for the forward release range, but where is the adjustment screw? (The large lateral release screw is obvious, but all the other screws just appear to be holding the binding together?)

[Patches]

I think its the screw on top of the binding- I have no information to prove this other than its in the right place to move the indicator on the "back" of the binding.

[Jonathan S.]

Ahh, right -- upon examination of the heel unit housing more carefully, now I see that it's not a vertically oriented "sandwich" like w/ Dynafit bindings but instead a horizontally oriented "sandwich" held together w/ the screws flanking the #5 & #6 indicators, so the screw on the top of the heel unit would indeed make sense for the forward release adjustment.

[Patches]

BTW Jonathan you need to get a pair. Not for yourself, that would be selfish, but so you can test and evaluate them for this great TGR community. We rely on you! So please make the sacrifice, for us, and for the children - after all, they are our future.

[Jonathan S.]

Unfortunately Lou is blowing his entire budget on my upcoming reviews of the Ortovox 3+, ultralight rando race gear, and Dynafit packs . . . well, okay, his entire budget for my gear reviews is exactly $0, but *I* am blowing *my* budget on those reviews! (Or is it Micayla's 529 plan that's being depleted?)
So wouldn't it be funny if this ATK binding is just an empty prototype and part of some experiment to see how those silly Americans will speculate endlessly on some seemingly exotic Euro touring gear based on a few pictures?
(You know, kind of like how REI is really just one big college psychology experiment run amuck to see how otherwise honest people will abuse the no-questions-asked return policy?)

[randosteve]

i saw this binding at this summer's outdoor retailer...in a dark back room. it looked pretty slick and my impression was that company who had it was going to be distributing them in the US...in 2011. i would also assume dynafit will continue to shave weight from their "low tech" binder to stay competitive.

[Patches]

In his chart Jonathan has the weight of the new Dynafit race binder at 117g per ski. Wow. But I'm not sure if it releases like a normal dynafit or if you have to ski down in "tour lever pulled up" mode.

Did you try the Manaslu pack Jonathan? I was going to do a writeup on it, guess now I don't have to. Unless you disagree with my assessment that its the greatest thing since Kim Kardashian's booty.

[SiSt]

how is this adjustement mechanism at the toepiece working? i simply dont get it from the picture... looks like there is a screw to adjust something, but how will it change anything at the springs?

freak[http://www.freeskiers.net/community/images/smilies/fish.gif&http://www.freeskiers.net/community/images/smilies/ghost.gif]

Looks like the front screw might move the hinge point of the touring lever by forcing the leaf-spring like part of the nose of the binding up as the screw goes in? The shape of the transverse hole where the leaf-spring meets the rest of the binding looks to be shaped to flex a bit as this point. By moving the hinge point it should be possible to change the release value by creating more resistance to the toe-jaws opening up.

[lynchdogger]

i saw this binding at this summer's outdoor retailer...in a dark back room. it looked pretty slick and my impression was that company who had it was going to be distributing them in the US...in 2011. i would also assume dynafit will continue to shave weight from their "low tech" binder to stay competitive.

Wonder what company that was . . . ;)

[Jonathan S.]

Did you try the Manaslu pack Jonathan? I was going to do a writeup on it, guess now I don't have to. Unless you disagree with my assessment that its the greatest thing since Kim Kardashian's booty.

I've had the Dynafit RC 20 pack for a couple years now. Then last year I suggested that a friend buy the Manaslu pack, which he greatly liked . . . as did I so much that I borrowed it for some tours in late spring & summer. Previously I had always favored basic climbing packs w/o any sort of ski-specific gizmos, but the Dynafit system of stowing away and deploying both skis & crampons makes ski<>climb transitions such a breeze that now I'm buying both the revised Manaslu & Broad Peak packs to complete my "quiver."
But although my hometown in upstate NY had a relatively large Armenian population, I'm really not sure who Ms. Kardashian is -- perhaps a top-ranked rando racer? [insert some sort of silly emoticon here]

[Jonathan S.]

i would also assume dynafit will continue to shave weight from their "low tech" binder to stay competitive.

According to the official specs, the totally revamped Dynafit Low Tech Race for this coming season will nip the ATK NX World Cup by half an ounce per pair.

But the directly competitor to the ATK RT is the Dynafit Vertical Lite, which has had pretty much no distribution in North America, and seems to be limited even in Europe. Add on the R02 adjustment plate to the ATK RT and the direct competitor is the Speed, which hasn't changed since around 1998 -- mainly b/c it really doesn't need to. (My late-spring & early summer setup this past season combined the latest Dynafit DyNA boots with state-of-the-art Trab Duo Sint Aero skis joined together with bindings whose design is over a decade old!)

Here's a summary chart copied from an Excel file -- I suspect that ATK is omitting screw weights, as well as the weight of the heel elevator extension on the RT.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7BAmdolYkPw/TJYNqF4eFCI/AAAAAAAAPAk/FMLU98VQHKo/s400/ATK.jpg

[randosteve]

Wonder what company that was . . . ;)


...it wasn't BD.

[lynchdogger]

...it wasn't BD.

Just a guess . . . :)
Are you going to get a chance to try this unit?

[randosteve]

i honestly don't know.

[freak]

Picture what the front of the binding would look like if you pull the toe lever into tour mode. The bottom end of the pulled lever would rest on the tip of the grey part of the binding; thats where the screw would change a tension. Thats why I think the front screw is just for when you are in tour mode.

ha, that makes sense. thanks for the explanation.


my own limited testing of Dynafit bindings has shown it to pass alpine downhill DIN testing procedures.

same here.

freak[http://www.freeskiers.net/community/images/smilies/fish.gif&http://www.freeskiers.net/community/images/smilies/ghost.gif]

[Jonathan S.]

New touring binding that's more similar to a regular Dynafit:
http://www.wildsnow.com/3739/plum-binding-backcountry-skiing/
Kind of like a Speed but with higher release values and many elements of rando race bindings.

[Jonathan S.]

my impression was that company who had it was going to be distributing them in the US...in 2011.

rumor confirmed (sort of)



BTW Jonathan you need to get a pair. Not for yourself, that would be selfish, but so you can test and evaluate them for this great TGR community. We rely on you! So please make the sacrifice, for us, and for the children - after all, they are our future.

call coming up later today to set up possible testing arrangements

also looking promising is a December test of the new Plum Guide (http://www.wildsnow.com/3739/plum-binding-backcountry-skiing/)

[Jonathan S.]

also looking promising is a December test of the new Plum Guide (http://www.wildsnow.com/3739/plum-binding-backcountry-skiing/)
Promises are thus far being held:
http://www.wildsnow.com/3987/plum-guide-review-binding/