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liv2ski
07-08-2010, 09:39 AM
Just read the below interesting interview. Basically, it reinforced the idea of a Global Currency emerging at some point (the IMF SDR) or the emergence of a new reserve currency pegged to Gold.
In either event, US fiscal policy has doomed the USD to become worthless in the future and I am always looking for ways to hedge my lifes dollar savings against the inevitable decline.
While I am not a real Gold bug, especially as I think we will see deflation in the near term and a temporary strengthening of the USD in a near term market implosion. Longer term, Gold may be a good investment or as this article seems to suggest, the Euro.
Just some food for thought.

"The topic of my paper was a hypothetical press release issued by the Russian central bank announcing the creation of a new, gold-back currency. In the hypothetical, the Russians also announce that exports of energy and other natural resources will have to be made in this new "gold ruble." The Russians would become a market maker in gold and effectively control the marginal price of gold transactions. This is basically a plan for taking down the dollar.

The IRA: It is an entirely plausible scenario. The Russians could establish a "gold" price for oil and then the paper currencies would trade at a discount. Thanks to the lack of leadership in Washington by either party, the U.S. is quite vulnerable to the creation of a gold-backed or commodity-backed currency. This August is the 40th anniversary of the decision in 1971 by President Richard Nixon, aided and abetted by a Treasury official named Paul Volcker and Fed Chairman Arthur Burns, to break the link between the dollar and gold. The excuse then was justified based on the short-term need for growth and inflation. As a senior Fed official told us, look at the period since the 1990s. Count how many quarters we have not had either fiscal stimulus or accommodative interest rates by the Fed to maintain the illusion of growth.

Rickards: Precisely. But what is interesting is that a couple of days ago, we saw the arrest of this seemingly hapless Russian spy gang. These people were a relic of the Cold War, running around Montclair, New Jersey, and meeting in New York coffee shops. But the one little tidbit that came out of the complaint filed by prosecutors is that the one subject that got a lot of reaction from Moscow was gold. Whatever these people were collecting for the Russians, the information about gold was of great interest. Often times in intelligence you care less about what the field agents are collecting than who is asking and why they are asking. The paper I did is getting written up all over the web. But the fact that the information on gold touched a nerve in Moscow confirms my view about their intentions toward the dollar.

The IRA: Well it is so obvious. We interviewed David Kotok of Cumberland Advisers last month, some of which will appear in Chris Whalen's upcoming book. Kotok just published a bullish book on Europe, Invest in Europe Now, and Kotok is even more bullish today. As he puts it, the Greeks gave the Germans a 20% currency devaluation. Kotok thinks that the crisis in Europe will eventually force the EU to fully integrate. But we speak to insiders with precisely the opposite view, who say the Europeans do not have a grip on the financial problems. Does the EU emerge stronger from the crisis?

Rickards: I agree with the view that says the EU gets stronger. I keep reminding people that the European Central Bank and the 16 members of the monetary system have over 10,000 tons of gold. They have more gold than the U.S. Treasury. We have just over 8,100 tons ourselves. If the EU were to go to even a partial reserve coverage with gold, say 20% backing, it would put Europe at an enormous advantage. They have enough gold today to set a target and make a two-way market in gold. I think that the first major currency bloc that goes to gold will dominate the financial world because it will become the only currency anybody will want. The first mover will force the other nations to follow.

The IRA: This is the idiocy of the U.S. position. We have set ourselves up as an easy target for our enemies. It is astounding that the Chinese have not been more aggressive in selling dollars. Maybe they are going to manage our downfall gently.

Rickards: I think the Chinese probably are doing it gently. The Japanese and Chinese are both influenced by Zen which, in Western jargon, is really about optionality. The whole idea of Zen is to avoid black and white decisions and instead create a range of options and possible outcomes. Instead of committing yourself to a binary decision, you create a fan of probabilities and look for your openings. So in that sense, if you think of it in options space, the Chinese are probably content to play the American paper game with the dollar, but all the while preparing for the day when the dollar collapses completely.

The IRA: Americans are convinced that it cannot happen here, the greatest nation on earth. Reminds us of France after WWI. Same degree of self-delusion. And no reaction by U.S. officials to the Chinese and Russia gold purchases?

Rickards: The Russians do not hide their purchases of gold. The incremental growth of Russian gold reserves is visible in their monthly statistics. The Chinese have been more surreptitious in their purchases but even they have announced the reserves doubled in recent years. The way that both of these nations add to gold without impacting the global price is that they are buying from internal, captive producers. And they pay below market prices because even paying $800 per ounce still gives their miners a tremendous profit. Between 2004 and 2008, China almost doubled the gold stocks of Peoples Bank of China, but they bought it through other state agencies to keep it off their books.

The IRA: So there is the pretense of coordination among the G-20, but meanwhile China is preparing to operate in a hard currency world. Is this a good way to describe your view?"
http://us1.institutionalriskanalytics.com/pub/IRAMain.asp

Phill
07-08-2010, 11:48 AM
I find it hard to believe that any future global reserve currency will be backed by gold.

toast2266
07-08-2010, 12:10 PM
Send your soon-to-be useless dollars to me and I will dispose of them for you.

liv2ski
07-08-2010, 12:39 PM
I find it hard to believe that any future global reserve currency will be backed by gold.

Well, if you read the entire article, Timmy G is supposedly leading the US and the Group of 20 to adopt the IMF SDR, as they (our government) all know our currency will eventually be dead and valueless after QE2.
"Thanks to the lack of leadership in Washington by either party, the U.S. is quite vulnerable to the creation of a gold-backed or commodity-backed currency". I totally agree with this comment and it is supported by other events I see happening around the world. The Russians have long been vocal about not wanting the USD for oil and commodity sales. Many nations are loading up on Gold (think of winter coming in the Grasshopper and the Ant) as the lines are being drawn. IMO, either a gold backed "reserve" currency will emerge or the Group of 20 will embrace the IMF SDR concept of monetary exchange. Either way, with the path the US Government is on, the USD is fucked. I give it 10 years tops. May happen in 5.

ms ann thrope
07-08-2010, 12:52 PM
YouTube- Peter Tosh - The Day the Dollar Die

skiballs
07-08-2010, 03:50 PM
Either way, with the path the US Government is on, the USD is fucked. I give it 10 years tops. May happen in 5.

Well, if your right the rest of the world should be shitting bricks.
When a country with a military bigger than the rest of the world combined, currency becomes worthless, what happens next.

Spats
07-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Well, if your right the rest of the world should be shitting bricks.
When a country with a military bigger than the rest of the world combined, currency becomes worthless, what happens next.

We don't have any money to pay for the oil that keeps our military running? OOPS

skiballs
07-08-2010, 04:06 PM
We don't have any money to pay for the oil that keeps our military running? OOPS

That's the point I'm making.
We will then just take it.

danimal's dead
07-08-2010, 04:15 PM
Why our government refuses to look out for the best interests of it's own people I will never understand. Every other nation in the world puts it's own best interests first, before what is best for the world as a whole. Not us, we want everyone to like us, this constant need to seek approval from and be liked by the rest of the world will be our demise. And it only makes them resent us all the more and wish for our downfall more fervently.

jfost
07-08-2010, 04:19 PM
Why our government refuses to look out for the best interests of it's own people I will never understand. Every other nation in the world puts it's own best interests first, before what is best for the world as a whole. Not us, we want everyone to like us, this constant need to seek approval from and be liked by the rest of the world will be our demise. And it only makes them resent us all the more and wish for our downfall more fervently.

Whoa. You should move, STAT!

skiballs
07-08-2010, 04:30 PM
Whoa. You should move, STAT!

Well that's what the OP seems to imply.

gonehuckin
07-08-2010, 06:30 PM
Good money chases out bad. Basic rule of money. So start issuing your own currency and bank peoples' gold for them.....

Just kidding of course. but there are those out there who think thats reasonable, either on a govt scale or a bank scale. They are wrong. Why? Because we tried that, it was called wildcat banking and it collapsed our entire economy for decades. You must do it on a govt scale. Even regional quasi-govt currencies (euro) must be backed by something that allows fluctuation. And you lose the ability to have monetary policy as a tool. I'll tell you the best part of those ideas, gold is a terrible investment right now. All kinds of downside, not much upside. And you want to start a currency pegged to it? good fucking luck. You tie the dollar to gold now and watch the mass exit from dollar holdings. You tie it at more value ($300 oz) and watch the whole world die.

Summit
07-08-2010, 06:33 PM
The gold lovers LOVE to email and spread these articles because if they can get people to question the USD, or at least buy gold, then their gold goes up. Such has been the strategy for the last decade.

gonehuckin
07-08-2010, 06:37 PM
The gold lovers LOVE to email and spread these articles because if they can get people to question the USD, or at least buy gold, then their gold goes up. Such has been the strategy for the last decade.

Such has been the strategy forever. Why do you think conservative avenues are the best for advertising the sale of gold? because its always doomsday to that crowd.

skiballs
07-08-2010, 07:17 PM
Good money chases out bad. Basic rule of money. So start issuing your own currency and bank peoples' gold for them.....

Just kidding of course. but there are those out there who think thats reasonable, either on a govt scale or a bank scale. They are wrong. Why? Because we tried that, it was called wildcat banking and it collapsed our entire economy for decades. You must do it on a govt scale. Even regional quasi-govt currencies (euro) must be backed by something that allows fluctuation. And you lose the ability to have monetary policy as a tool. I'll tell you the best part of those ideas, gold is a terrible investment right now. All kinds of downside, not much upside. And you want to start a currency pegged to it? good fucking luck. You tie the dollar to gold now and watch the mass exit from dollar holdings. You tie it at more value ($300 oz) and watch the whole world die.

Well said.
Tullips anyone.
OH, and you need to have an army to support a currency.

Downbound Train
07-08-2010, 10:29 PM
Such has been the strategy forever. Why do you think conservative avenues are the best for advertising the sale of gold? because its always doomsday to that crowd.


And a lot of those dummies have taken it to the bank and are laughing at you.

gonehuckin
07-09-2010, 12:10 AM
And a lot of those dummies have taken it to the bank and are laughing at you.

Hook line and sinker........so you think so huh? Go ahead, tell us about it.

jfost
07-09-2010, 09:06 AM
It's not a laughing matter until you sell it for HUGE PROFITS!

If you have gold or derivatives sitting in the bank, you should wait before laughing - and maybe hedge a bit?

DBdude
07-09-2010, 11:47 AM
I find it hard to believe that any future global reserve currency will be backed by gold.

exactly

asl;dfjas'dfjk

talmadgetab
07-09-2010, 08:54 PM
Gold's strong correlation with stocks speaks for itself. Besides, investors will sell anything & everything to get their hands on cash to repay debt. Cash only the safest currencies in only the safest institutions will be king.

Tippster
07-10-2010, 03:50 PM
Yes, we see how strong the Euro is, don't we?

With a global currency we would trade a Greece & Spain situation for Sub-Saharan Africa and Central America. Not gonna happen.

Arty50
07-10-2010, 04:19 PM
Either way, with the path the US Government is on, the USD is fucked. I give it 10 years tops. May happen in 5.

Wanna bet? It'll be like Simon vs. Ehrlich II.

gonehuckin
07-10-2010, 07:06 PM
Yes, we see how strong the Euro is, don't we?

With a global currency we would trade a Greece & Spain situation for Sub-Saharan Africa and Central America. Not gonna happen.

I see you logic here but that wouldn't be something that would happen because a global currency wouldn't replace any national currency right away. It would be in addition to. It would be progressive. It would have to gain traction as an alternative, likely if it proved strong and stable, opec or the asia tigers would go first. It really would depend on how it established its legitimacy. Nothing forced because no one would give up their monetary tools or sovereignty.

gonehuckin
07-10-2010, 07:08 PM
Wanna bet? It'll be like Simon vs. Ehrlich II.

Ill take that bet too. As high of stakes as you can handle.

Tippster
07-10-2010, 09:31 PM
I see you logic here but that wouldn't be something that would happen because a global currency wouldn't replace any national currency right away. It would be in addition to. It would be progressive. It would have to gain traction as an alternative, likely if it proved strong and stable, opec or the asia tigers would go first. It really would depend on how it established its legitimacy. Nothing forced because no one would give up their monetary tools or sovereignty.Sorta like Esperanto or some other Lingua Franca was going to replace English as the language of trade?

We have an international trade currency - it's called the US Dollar... before true globalization is was the GBP, but that went away. The multinational Euro tried to replace it and has fallen on hard times lately. Nobody is talking about trading oil in Euros anymore. Would a rock-solid Ruble (or Renminbi Yuan) be a challenger? Quite possibly, but it would still have to play out over time.

The Dollar is what it is mainly because our political situation is stable... there's zero likelihood of a fundamental Government/Policy change. Russia & China not so much.

Arty50
07-10-2010, 11:08 PM
If we want to make crazy predictions...

In 100 years, I bet the Renminbi will be the new US Dollar, the US Dollar will be the new GBP, and the GBP will have been folded into the Euro.

I'm moving to China. Hopefully they won't shoot me for skiing out of bounds.

neck beard
07-10-2010, 11:12 PM
^ I would not bet against that.

liv2ski
07-26-2010, 10:29 AM
Man, what a scary read to look at Germany in the 1920's. I sure hope we go down like Japan with deflation as an alternative.

"The Death of Paper Money
As they prepare for holiday reading in Tuscany, City bankers are buying up rare copies of an obscure book on the mechanics of Weimar inflation published in 1974.

As it happens, another book from the 1970s entitled "When Money Dies: the Nightmare of The Weimar Hyper-Inflation" has just been reprinted. Written by former Tory MEP Adam Fergusson -- endorsed by Warren Buffett as a must-read -- it is a vivid account drawn from the diaries of those who lived through the turmoil in Germany, Austria, and Hungary as the empires were broken up.

Near civil war between town and country was a pervasive feature of this break-down in social order. Large mobs of half-starved and vindictive townsmen descended on villages to seize food from farmers accused of hoarding. The diary of one young woman described the scene at her cousin’s farm.

"In the cart I saw three slaughtered pigs. The cowshed was drenched in blood. One cow had been slaughtered where it stood and the meat torn from its bones. The monsters had slit the udder of the finest milch cow, so that she had to be put out of her misery immediately. In the granary, a rag soaked with petrol was still smouldering to show what these beasts had intended," she wrote.

Grand pianos became a currency or sorts as pauperized members of the civil service elites traded the symbols of their old status for a sack of potatoes and a side of bacon. There is a harrowing moment when each middle-class families first starts to undertand that its gilt-edged securities and War Loan will never recover. Irreversible ruin lies ahead. Elderly couples gassed themselves in their apartments.

Foreigners with dollars, pounds, Swiss francs, or Czech crowns lived in opulence. They were hated. "Times made us cynical. Everybody saw an enemy in everybody else," said Erna von Pustau, daughter of a Hamburg fish merchant.

Great numbers of people failed to see it coming. "My relations and friends were stupid. They didn’t understand what inflation meant. Our solicitors were no better. My mother’s bank manager gave her appalling advice," said one well-connected woman.

"You used to see the appearance of their flats gradually changing. One remembered where there used to be a picture or a carpet, or a secretaire. Eventually their rooms would be almost empty. Some of them begged -- not in the streets -- but by making casual visits. One knew too well what they had come for."

Corruption became rampant. People were stripped of their coat and shoes at knife-point on the street. The winners were those who -- by luck or design -- had borrowed heavily from banks to buy hard assets, or industrial conglomerates that had issued debentures. There was a great transfer of wealth from saver to debtor, though the Reichstag later passed a law linking old contracts to the gold price. Creditors clawed back something.

A conspiracy theory took root that the inflation was a Jewish plot to ruin Germany. The currency became known as "Judefetzen" (Jew- confetti), hinting at the chain of events that would lead to Kristallnacht a decade later.

While the Weimar tale is a timeless study of social disintegration, it cannot shed much light on events today. The final trigger for the 1923 collapse was the French occupation of the Ruhr, which ripped a great chunk out of German industry and set off mass resistance.

Ebay is offering a well-thumbed volume of "Dying of Money: Lessons of the Great German and American Inflations" at a starting bid of $699 (shipping free.. thanks a lot).

The crucial passage comes in Chapter 17 entitled "Velocity". Each big inflation -- whether the early 1920s in Germany, or the Korean and Vietnam wars in the US -- starts with a passive expansion of the quantity money. This sits inert for a surprisingly long time. Asset prices may go up, but latent price inflation is disguised. The effect is much like lighter fuel on a camp fire before the match is struck.

People’s willingness to hold money can change suddenly for a "psychological and spontaneous reason" , causing a spike in the velocity of money. It can occur at lightning speed, over a few weeks. The shift invariably catches economists by surprise. They wait too long to drain the excess money.

"Velocity took an almost right-angle turn upward in the summer of 1922," said Mr O Parsson. Reichsbank officials were baffled. They could not fathom why the German people had started to behave differently almost two years after the bank had already boosted the money supply. He contends that public patience snapped abruptly once people lost trust and began to "smell a government rat".

Some might smile at the Bank of England "surprise" at the recent the jump in Brtiish inflation. Across the Atlantic, Fed critics say the rise in the US monetary base from $871bn to $2,024bn in just two years is an incendiary pyre that will ignite as soon as US money velocity returns to normal.

Morgan Stanley expects bond carnage as this catches up with the Fed, predicting that yields on US Treasuries will rocket to 5.5pc. This has not happened so far. 10-year yields have fallen below 3pc, and M2 velocity has remained at historic lows of 1.72.

As a signed-up member of the deflation camp, I think the Bank and the Fed are right to keep their nerve and delay the withdrawal of stimulus -- though that case is easier to make in the US where core inflation has dropped to the lowest since the mid 1960s. But fact that O Parsson’s book is suddenly in demand in elite banking circles is itself a sign of the sort of behavioral change that can become self-fulfilling".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7909432/The-Death-of-Paper-Money.html