Sovereign Citizens, Redemption, etc...

[spindrift]

Until recently, I was totally unaware of the scale, history and nature of this phenomenon. Supposedly, at least in some places, there is a significant correlation with Tea Party activism.

Can anyone here shed any light on this topic? Anyone consider themselves "members"?

[Downbound Train]

Until recently, I was totally unaware of the scale, history and nature of this phenomenon. Supposedly, at least in some places, there is a significant correlation with Tea Party activism.

Can anyone here shed any light on this topic? Anyone consider themselves "members"?

Where do you get the idea that this is a large movement? Sounds like another attempt to discredit the Tea party people by linking them to kooks.

[jfost]

it is really hard to "discredit" the "tea party" when it is as fractional as 3rd grade math.

[Phill]

huh had never heard anything about these guys before this

interesting summary i found through google if anyones interested

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM.asp?xpicked=4

[MTT]

http://www.teaparty.org/about.php#what

And you know you want to:the_finge

https://www.jointheteaparty.us/

[liv2ski]

huh had never heard anything about these guys before this

interesting summary i found through google if anyones interested

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM.asp?xpicked=4

Wow, thanks for that Phill. By comparison, I don't feel so nutty anymore:rolleyes2

[Pillsbury]

Non-negotiable core beliefs
Illegal Aliens Are Here illegally.
Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
Stronger Military Is Essential.
Special Interests Eliminated.
Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
Government Must Be Downsized.
National Budget Must Be Balanced.
Deficit Spending Will End.
Bail-out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
Reduce Business Income Taxes Is Mandatory.
Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
Intrusive Government Stopped.
English As Core Language Is Required.
Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

Common Sense Constitutional
Conservative Self-Governance

Sounds like your typical, racist, anti gay, gun toting bible thumper.

[Downbound Train]

Non-negotiable core beliefs

Illegal Aliens Are Here illegally.
Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
Stronger Military Is Essential.
Special Interests Eliminated.
Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
Government Must Be Downsized.
National Budget Must Be Balanced.
Deficit Spending Will End.
Bail-out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
Reduce Business Income Taxes Is Mandatory.
Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
Intrusive Government Stopped.
English As Core Language Is Required.
Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

Common Sense Constitutional
Conservative Self-Governance

That is from Dale Robertson who founded the web site you quoted and his own version of what the Tea Party stands for. Having said that...

I must be a Tea Party person. A couple of those are impossible, a couple are off the mark but I'll take that list over what we have now any day.

Hey DBS, you are stupid.

[Pillsbury]

guns are sacred. God bless the bullets. Dumb fucks.

[ilikecandy]

the best way to compete in a global economy is to discourage multilingualism

[powpig]

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM.asp?xpicked=4


Wow, thanks for that Phill. By comparison, I don't feel so nutty anymore:rolleyes2

Really? Citing and believing the ADL as a source seems pretty damn nutty to me.

[Rip'nStick]

the best way to compete in a global economy is to discourage multilingualism

??? How so? Or is my sarcasm meter broken.

[Phill]

Really? Citing and believing the ADL as a source seems pretty damn nutty to me.

Here's a different article this ones worth a read too it gets a little more into what jumped out at me when I first wikipediaed redemption movement: Where's the scam?

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2002/winter/beyond-redemption?page=0,0

[powpig]

Here's a different article this ones worth a read too it gets a little more into what jumped out at me when I first wikipediaed redemption movement: Where's the scam?

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2002/winter/beyond-redemption?page=0,0

Wow! First the ADL & now Morris Dees' Cult, the SPLC. I'll have to take a closer look at this stuff cause with opposition like that, there's gotta be something to it.

[lionelhutz]

Sounds like your typical, racist, anti gay, gun toting bible thumper.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

I also love how things are thrown in there that can't possible mean the same thing to any two people. Like...
"Intrusive Government Stopped"
What you say is intrusive, I say isn't. That doesn't mean anything without specifics? Like do you mean you want to abolish "Terry" stops....well that would weaken our national defense. How about "Common Sense Constitutional." What the F does that mean? To mean common sense says if two dudes want to get married, buy a house and touch cornholes well who the F am I to say otherwise. The constitution says each person has a right to privacy and right to liberty...but ooppps..."tradition family values..."

All seems just racist and bullshit bible thumping to me.

[spindrift]

While I'm sure that slamming adl or splc is...well whatever it is...

But I'm not especially curious about that topic. What I'm genuinely curious about is the whole Sovereign Citizen and Redemption thing. Some of the rhetoric sounds similar to some of what pops up here from the more far "right" side of the discussion. So maybe somebody plays? If not, maybe you know someone who buys in & can discuss what drives them? Maybe you have some real knowledge of overlap, or non-overlap with the Tea Party? Maybe as a Tea Party person who has never heard about these other things? Or as Tea Party type who knows of them, but sees no crossover? Or maybe you are aware of overlap? Maybe you know stuff for real and can comment about whether there's a racist component or not?

Heck, maybe you can help me understand why anyone would buy into this stuff? I admit that it seems both extreme and illogical to me. But at least according to some sources, there is demand for books, seminars, whatever?...

[Phill]

Heck, maybe you can help me understand why anyone would buy into this stuff? I admit that it seems both extreme and illogical to me. But at least according to some sources, there is demand for books, seminars, whatever?...

It's simple really, people are greedy and stupid. Other people take advantage of this to sell them worthless shit.

Been happening for centuries.

[Summit]

It's simple really, people are greedy and stupid. Other people take advantage of this to sell them worthless shit.

Been happening for centuries.

pretty much nails it