View Full Version : new touring setup - need binding recommendations
03-31-2010, 01:39 PM
I am in the process of getting a dedicated backcountry setup (do not need resort capability) since I moved to southeastern Idaho a few months. I will most likely be skiing the Tetons and the Sawtooth mtns. I have a pair of BD method boots on the way so either Dynafit or standard AT bindings will work.
Any suggestions? Probably willing to spend up to about $300 on a set of bindings. Looks like the naxo nx21s are an option and look comparable to the Fritshi freerides. Not sure which has worked better for most people.
Also, I have not decided on a ski yet but am considering something from 100-110mm underfoot. Some of the contender are the wailer 112rp or 105s or maybe the zenoxides. Anybody have a comparison between these two?
03-31-2010, 01:44 PM
Well there is koolaid and then there is a bunch of other binders that you can tour on.
the koolaid aint cheap and requires special boots, but once drunken very few go back.
03-31-2010, 01:49 PM
Koolaid = Dynafits.
Stalk Gear Swap or maybe put up a "WTB:" thread. I'd seen them go for $300 or less. Methods come with Dynafit-compatible soles. This is a no-brainer.
For the skis, if money isn't an issue, DPS would be sweet. Or PM Gear. G3 Tonics or Zenoxides would work as well. Tons of options, depending on your ski preference.
03-31-2010, 01:56 PM
If I were you, I'd spend the money on Dynafits and then use whatever's leftover to buy skis. Good skis can be had for relatively cheap (cheaper than DPS's), so maybe save some money there so you can afford nice binders.
03-31-2010, 02:11 PM
Dynafits are the best option if you want light/fast. TLT Speeds are my binding of choice, and they are a fantastic option for touring. I think the Dynafits ski very well, but you definitely have to be a more balanced and centred skier, especially if you're using a light binding with a light ski and lighter boots. Since you are looking for a touring binding, it seems that Dynafits are probably the best choice.
Dukes are the best option if you want alpine performance and have the fitness/leg strength required to stampede the extra weight. Some skiers are very fast on Dukes, even with heavy skis. I recently got to spend a day out on Dukes and, despite the heaviness on the uptrack, the ski down was great. Far better downhill experience than Dynafits. The Dukes ski *really* well. Not sure I could tour with the Dukes on a daily basis, but they're definitely a great product.
Light setups are great on the up, but more work on the down, especially in difficult snow. Heavy setups are more work on the up, but a lot more fun on the down. It's a conundrum.
03-31-2010, 02:56 PM
I recently got to spend a day out on Dukes and, despite the heaviness on the uptrack, the ski down was great. Far better downhill experience than Dynafits.Far better downhill performance? Why would that be? Ramp angle? If so, that's a personal preference thing that can be simply addressed with shims. Lack of elasticity? If so, that's not an issue for >95% of snow encountered on backcountry tours, and it's not that big of a deal even in firm conditions. Stack height? Okay, so Dukes stack lower, but that does not correspond to "far better downhill performance."
It certainly aint stiffness. The difference in stiffness of boot/ski connection between Dynafits and Dukes is marginal, perhaps wholly imperceptible. See Lou's tests on wildsnow.com. Dynafits are stiffer than hell. Very positive boot/ski connection.
OP, since you got the Methods, go Dynafit. It's a no brainer.
03-31-2010, 03:41 PM
+another1 for Dynafits. Also echo the recommendation to spend the money on a good set of Dynafits first (even buying **ghasp** new to avoid any issues with worn parts/lack of maintenance) then use whatever $$ you have left for skis.
03-31-2010, 04:04 PM
You can't possibly enjoy a ski day unless you're on Dynafits. Your inability to explain why you enjoyed the Dukes is completely unacceptable. My unending devotion to Dynafit is a sign that I am hardcore and you have just messed with the wrong guy.
Did you miss the part where I said that I use TLT Speeds, or the part where I recommended Dynafits? I really enjoyed the Dukes and thought they skiied better than Dynafits on the way down. BigSteve, are you going to take away my Dynafit card for enjoying the Dukes?
03-31-2010, 04:27 PM
^^^you, my friend are out of ze club!
03-31-2010, 05:01 PM
if you end up needing a pair of used Naxo 21's, I have a set with wide breaks(bent for 115 waisted skis, able to be bent more) that you can take for 100 and shipping
Zesty Not Spicy
03-31-2010, 05:15 PM
Switched from Dukes to Dynafit's this season (thanks again to Big Steve for the mounting help) and couldn't be happier (although I did recently crack the heel post). I still have a Duke set-up but I haven't skied it yet with my Radium's for a true comparison. That said, I was really impressed with the stiffnes and lack of slop the Dyanfit's provide. Unless you are routinely dropping 30+ footers or dirt poor (sell a kidney) then ther's really no debate.
03-31-2010, 05:17 PM
Well, looks like I might have to wait around for a good deal on a (hopefully new) set of dynafits.
Few questions due to this binding system being completely new to me:
- any differences/advantages of the dyanfit TLT vertical vs. speeds?
- are brake sets available for the speeds/verticals that would fit around a 105mm waist ski? I think I saw some but was not sure
One other thing I wanted to get some input on, G3 apparently makes a dynafit compatible called the onyx. I noticed they run a bit heavier (just under a pound per set) than the dynafits but they also seem to be cheaper than the vertical FT 12s with the same capability (i.e. "DIN" setting to 12). Anybody think they are worth considering?
03-31-2010, 05:26 PM
Right now you can get Dynafits pretty cheap- check out the tread in Gear Swap.
03-31-2010, 05:30 PM
G3 Onyx is brand new, so keep in mind that they haven't been tested to the extent that the Dynafits have, out in the environment in the hands of regular everyday buttwipes. That being said, they are still a viable option.
I have the FT12's mounted on 189 K2 Anti-Pistes (102mm in the waist)
and Dukes mounted on 195 Line Motherships (111mm waist) the difference is UNBELIEVABLE, I lost almost 4 pounds per foot for the climbs! although the Anti-Piste isn't the same charging kind of ski I find that when skiing in the backcountry I tend to take my time and enjoy the down in a different way. (guess which one's I take into the backcountry? ....I totally drank the Kool-Aid)
btw: I weigh over 200 with gear and only set din to 10 and I haven't had any release issues to speak of, so the Dynafit TLT has a din that goes to 10 and can cost literally hundreds less, you make that call, then have fun
03-31-2010, 05:38 PM
Yeah, I just saw the thread over in gear swap...looks really tempting. Kind of annoying that they do not have any in stock with the 110mm brakes though.
03-31-2010, 05:44 PM
use a leash until you can find them, no brainer, f'n rad deals over there right now
03-31-2010, 06:43 PM
You might as well get dynafits now, you will sooner or later. I did after carrying Barons to the top of Shasta:eek:
03-31-2010, 06:45 PM
sucked it up and fronted the cost for a new set of vertical ft 12s...now about those skis. guess i will have to wait a bit.
fyi anybody looking at the dynafits at bc.com, they are not going to restock the ones with the 110mm brakes until the fall
04-01-2010, 11:39 AM
Welcome to the club. I mentioned in another post that I have some 110mm FT/ST brakes for sale. I prefer leashes.
[falsely attributed quote by Big Steve omitted]Hmmmm. Confronted with a question on the merits, CM launches an ad hominem (http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/person.html) attack, attributes a false quote to the one posing the question and wholly avoids the merits of the question. How refreshing. :nonono2:
04-01-2010, 03:41 PM
As a long-time Dynafit user myself, I am curious why you felt the need to provide a laundry list of irrelevant technical arguments in an attempt to invalidate my favourable experience with the Dukes.
You don't work for Dynafit/Salewa, and I'm sure you pay retail for your bindings ... you also seem to have forgotten that my original post included favourable remarks about Dynafits, along with a recommendation to purchase ... Dynafits.
I stand by my remarks: The Dukes are a heavy alpine binding, with top notch skiing performance and an excellent user experience on the descent. Based on a 1-day comparison, I don't think Dynafits offer the same downhill performance as the Dukes.
Sorry that you are apparently so butthurt by my favourable remarks about the Dukes. Clearly my refusal to explain myself, along with my summation of your remarks only added insult to injury ... but then again ... this is TGR.
04-01-2010, 04:35 PM
Not butthurt. I'm an old guy so I don't know what butthurt means. Apparently you do.
I'm not a Duke hater. Don't know where you got that.
I made no attempt to "invalidate [your] favourable experience with the Dukes." Don't know where you got that.
The issue of whether I pay retail, pay wholesale, steal or borrow seems manifestly irrelevant to me. What's your point?
04-01-2010, 04:50 PM
Have you ever skiied Dukes?
04-01-2010, 05:58 PM
04-01-2010, 08:21 PM
Far better downhill performance? Why would that be?
Look beyond the bindings. It's the boots. I just tried out the "burliest" AT boot out there, the Factor 130, and it's a weak noodle compared to my Rossi b sqaud carbon 130s. The difference in downhill performance would be more attributable to the AT boots commonly used with the dynafit rather than the binding itself, given dynafits as you say are stiff bindings with a solid interface, which I fully agree with.
04-01-2010, 09:44 PM
^ ^ ^ Valid points. But OP stated that he already has BD Methods, so the issue of boot selection is moot.
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