Epoxy Eats Foam Cunundrum

[wooley12]

I've read all the rumors, opinions and old wife's tales about epoxy eating the foam in a ski binding mount. I've discussed it with a composite engineer who said "it depends". Does anyone have any real world "it happened to me" experience where epoxy has dissolved the foam core of a ski ?

[Big Steve]

http://www.wildsnow.com/598/epoxy-backcountry-ski-core/

[wooley12]

Thanks Big Steve. Familiar with that link. The engineer told me "some" epoxy is not compatible with "some" foam but unless it's a NASA type project it's impossible to know. I have done 20 or so mounts on foam cores with epoxy and never had an issue. I'm expecting it's not an issue with ski core foam. These days I use Titebond III anyway but that's another thread. Too much time, too many Dynafits and not enough snow.

[arild]

I used epoxy for mounting my Squads. No issues at all (I´m pretty sure these are foam cores).

[Big Steve]

Too much time, too many Dynafits and not enough snow.
Ample snow if you know where to tour. :smile:

[wooley12]

Well here, off I-90 2620 miles east of Alpental, we have 6" of wet old on a zero base. Out of desperation I drove 20 min. to my secret stash. 1/4 mile skin in up a 10* grade. Backside has 125' vert at 35* but didn't want to trash the Manaslu bases. Gotta train for my 2/24 trip to skin laps up Hyak and surroundings. See ya there.

[mikemcee]

I totally misread the title of this thread. I thought it was something about epoxy foam eating conundrum.

[chappyiam]

I've always used white glue or carpenters glue, never had a problem.

[hitmanbob]

I think the issue with foam has to do with fast curing epoxy's melting the foam core of a ski. Slower setting epoxy doesn't heat up as much if any at all. The heat from a fast setting epoxy would cause the foam core to melt, and lessen the ability of the foam/topsheet/epoxy/screw to retain the binding.

But I've never mounted a binding or done any intensive ski work so ymmv

[stuckathuntermtn]

okay, once again. NO and NO.
There are different synthetic cores. They're not usually "foam"
The wood glue is to keep water out. The threads of the screw hold the binding in.
ffs, why is this still and issue?

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

okay, once again. NO and NO.
There are different synthetic cores. They're not usually "foam"
The wood glue is to keep water out. The threads of the screw hold the binding in.
ffs, why is this still and issue?

No kidding huh? We keep going over this... You DO NOT need to use epoxy at all for mounting bindings!! Imagine a world where you actually had to glue your screws in?! Use wood glue-problem solved!

[wooley12]

OK- Myth debunked- Post 101- Do I get a prize?

[Cruiser]

Paging Pechelman to the white courtesy phone. Oh wait, he's probably kayaking through some central american jungle right now.

Epoxy + foam ski core = full on thermonuclear meltdown :fm:

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

Put down the epoxy... and step away from the mounting bench!

[YetiMan]

seems like somebody working in a shop could easily get a hold of a few dead foam core skis and some different epoxies and do some actual testing...

just a thought.

[inthemtns]

I think the issue with foam has to do with fast curing epoxy's melting the foam core of a ski. Slower setting epoxy doesn't heat up as much if any at all. The heat from a fast setting epoxy would cause the foam core to melt, and lessen the ability of the foam/topsheet/epoxy/screw to retain the binding.

The fast setting epoxy has a more volatile solvent. It's this solvent that eats the foam. The slower setting the better. Carpenters glue uses water a solvent so it you'll never have a problem with it.

[LightRanger]

seems like somebody working in a shop could easily get a hold of a few dead foam core skis and some different epoxies and do some actual testing...

just a thought.

I take it you didn't click the wildsnow link in the second post...

Of course, most of the people posting in this thread didn't either, judging by their responses.

[Cruiser]

^^^ Lou is a nice guy and I'm not usually one to go shooting my mouth off about nice guys being completely crazy. However, in this particular instance the indisputable fact is that the instant when epoxy comes into contact with the foam core of a ski a chemical reaction takes place which, if left unchecked, has the potential to generate enough heat to melt right through steel. Do not fuck around with that kind of power.

As an aside, Salomon developed a material (composed largely of Unobtanium I'm told) that could safely contain the intense heat generated by this epoxy/foam reaction and used it to contain their "liquid magma" core skis of the early 2000's. You know, the ones with the robots on them...

[YetiMan]

I take it you didn't click the wildsnow link in the second post...


Awesome. The answer was right there.
I'm an idiot. :redface:

[Voltron]

I used epoxy for mounting my Squads. No issues at all (I´m pretty sure these are foam cores).

Squads are beefy, so they can handle the thermonuclear reaction of the epoxy. Not sure about lesser skis.

[wooley12]

I take it you didn't click the wildsnow link in the second post...

Of course, most of the people posting in this thread didn't either, judging by their responses.

Actually, no one is reading the first post. Still no real world "It happened to me"

[arild]

Squads are beefy, so they can handle the thermonuclear reaction of the epoxy. Not sure about lesser skis.

Heh. Used 24h cure epoxy, by the way (in lack of an alternative then and there).

[bio-smear]

It's tough to prove a negative.

Epoxy is a term used very loosely for a wide array of 2-part adhesives. Hence, multiple retarded threads like this. I have seen with my own eyes, fiberglass epoxy resin melt through the bottom of a styrofoam cup. I've also used, exclusively, Loctite 2-part 50-min set marine epoxy on numerous pairs of "foam" core skis. I've also removed bindings and remounted said skis. I assure you, with 100% confidence, that the core material was not compromised. We also had a guy around here who was an engineering student, who posted a table of pullout forces from no adhesive vs wood glue vs epoxy, and the epoxy sealed values were higher than the others. Epoxy is better. I frequently break-loose epoxy sealed screws without doing any special soldering iron heating technique. It isn't permanent. It's just a stronger adhesive and seals holes from moisture better than wood glue.

Bottom line, the kind of "epoxy" and "foam" I deal with (not sure about your polymer choices) in ski mounting is quite compatible. Also, search, you fucking JONG....discussed before, and with better jokes.

[stuckathuntermtn]

The fast setting epoxy has a more volatile solvent. It's this solvent that eats the foam. The slower setting the better. Carpenters glue uses water a solvent so it you'll never have a problem with it.

WTF are you talking about?!

[AsheanMT]

When I was a kid I tried to use super glue to fix my Styrofoam glider. There was an immediate chemical reaction that occurred causing my plane to melt and vanish into thin air (which I'm sure was a gaseous cocktail of deadly poison)

I've used epoxy on Atomic Densolite foam cores without any problem.

I'm going to go back up and read lou's link now. ;)

[XXX-er]

Awesome. The answer was right there.
I'm an idiot. :redface:


thats ok ,nobody ever reads anything on the internet cuz actually they are not interested in learning anything ...just projecting their own thots


IMO if you got time to do quick set epoxy you got time to do slow set epoxy ,I have used 5 min around ww kayak paddles and its fucking useless IMO

I also crack the screws after the epoxy cures to make sure they will still come out because the ONLY problem I ever had with epoxy was having to drill the head off of a screw to remove a 3 pin binding plate from a foam core rossi