are these things important to you in a ski? [Archive]

marshalolson

01-08-2010, 08:13 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

it would be interesting to see people rank these items in terms of importance, and then write a sentance or two explaining each line.

if someone has a NS account or TTips account, it might also be cool to post this over there and post a link so we can see what everyone is thinking...

awesome. i guess this is your chance to speak your mind on design. i am going to send the results around to a bunch of various contacts....

Danno

01-08-2010, 08:41 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I prefer understated graphics, more dps than the others, but on the importance scale, very low.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I care a lot, I think, but admittedly I don't that I would notice or check.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

The shape of a ski is very important to me, probably the most important thing. When I start searching for a new ski, it is always with a particular shape/dimension/etc in mind.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

I haven't often had "options" in a particular model, but next to shape, this is probably the most important thing to me. I know that neither a super stiff ski not a super floppy ski will work for me, so if a particular ski doesn't come with choices, I won't buy it if it isn't in the ballpark as far as flex.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

I tour a good bit, but don't care that much about weight. I want downhill performance, if that comes in a light package, great, but if not, not a big deal to me. I will always choose the ski that fits my downhill performance characteristics.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

Sure, supporting cool new shit is great, but this one is low on the scale for me. I want a great ski, that's what I am looking for. So I am willing to spend money for it (bought Folsoms this year), but don't care if my ski is made of the super newest coolest tech, I only care if that tech is noticeable on the down.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I am very motivated by price, but will spend for a ski I really want. Wouldn't have spent $1000 on skis, but was willing to spend $700 on Folsom's May pre-sale, and did spend $600 on Mantras in their first year. That said, I also got a pair of used Gots for $300 and skied the shit out of them for 3 years. I have bought a pair of skis every year, just about, but may not buy again for a while. I expect a pair of skis to last 100+ days for me.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I don't know any of the details you mention, so I guess I don't care. I do care about durability, one of the reason I sold my Mantras is it seemed they got core shots just by looking at them. But overall, I don't care if the topsheets chip easily, that kind of stuff doesn't matter that much to me.

For ranking, from most important to least important:
Shaping
Flex
Price
Durability
Finishing
Weight
Graphics
Technology

focus

01-08-2010, 08:51 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

Simple simple simple, but bright. Love the new dps colors. Don't really dig the pmgear stuff. I also enjoy artwork, like some of the Armada and 4frnt stuff. Puking blood skulls are a little much.

In the end, though, graphics are a pretty secondary consideration.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

Above all else I want shit to match, the rest of these things are important too, though most are fixable or not likely to be noticed.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

That's more of a quiver consideration, I think.... That said, this and flex defines what ski I buy.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

See # 3 for the first 2. For the 3rd: Don't really care about this - if it doesn't come in a configuration I want I won't buy it. If the only configuration available happens to be what I want then I will. I guess this kind of thing will keep a manufacturer in the game for a greater variety of customers, and I'm grateful if this kind of thing adds to my options, I guess.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

See # 3.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I want it to work for me. I'm not an early adopter. I don't have the fundage to be a guinea pig.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I'm broke. Any new acquisition means giving up something else. If I really want it I'll find a way to make it happen, but this usually has to involve some kind of hookup.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I'm broke, what I buy may need to last me 3 or 4 years. yes, don't care, sidewall.

So: 3, 4, 8, 2, 5, 7, 1, 6 - I think.

ectreeskier11

01-08-2010, 09:01 AM

graphics-don't give a shit.
finishing- doesn't matter so much. i want the skis to look like they should, but on soft snow skis it is not a big deal. i do want the rocker/flex pattern to match though, that is pretty big.
shaping-taper is magical, ala JJ's. just have fun and make cool shit!
flex- so many options out there you can find something that fits your needs, don't need multiple flexes in most skis.
weight- medium, say between 9.5 to 11 pounds for a fairly large ski is key. there is definitely the need for lighter and heavier skis though, but for an everyday ski i want something that is very quick and light but can still absorb what it needs to.
technology- no. carbon seems cool but a lot of other bull shit is just stupid gimmicks to get idiots to pay mor for something they don't need.
price- i can't pay full price for a ski, no matter what the cost... cheaper is better, obviously.
durability- cap and die cuts suck. that said, i own jj's and love them. if it is built right, anything can work. i don't care if the skis get beat up, as my jj's are. i just need the edges to hold on and the skis to not bend or break. you don't notice anything else in most conditions.

Chowda

01-08-2010, 09:03 AM

1. Graphics - kick ass glossy graphics catch my attention, but I don't buy a ski based on this.

2. Finish- I like a ski to come skiable with only a quick wax. I hate trying to get them pushed through a shop for a grind when I'm stoked to ski, So flat, some structure, and beveled edges.

3. Shape - Turning radius <20m need not apply, and I really prefer something around 27m for an everyday ski.

4. Flex - Stiff underfoot, med-stiff tip, medium stiff tail.

5. weight - I like heavy damp skis less and less these days. Maybe because I'm getting older, but I've been enjoying a bit more pop these days. There seem to be a lot of great skis around 8.5 lbs per pair.

6. Technology - I like second gen technology, once it's watered down a bit, but I definitely pay attention to companies who are pushing new design.

7. Price - I won't pay early season pricing to get that super anticipated ski, ie Super7, but I rarely wait until all the long skis are gone. I want a good value.

8. Durability - I can't be bothered by tip-toeing around rocks, so durability is big for me. I don't mind cap construction, but prefer sidewall. Edges that stay attached to the core are big.

schindlerpiste

01-08-2010, 09:06 AM

scaled from 1-10:

Graphics: 1
Finishing: 8
Shape: 7
flex: 8
weight: 4
Technology: 4
Price: 5
Durability: 6
I usually purchase my skis based upon materials used, finish, shape, flex.
Generally speaking, I'm a wood, metal, sidewall kind of guy; however, I really like carbon for pop at a lighter weight. Seems that carbon fiber is a good replacement for metal.

2,4,3,8,5,6,7,1

Big Steve

01-08-2010, 09:25 AM

My personal preference priorities:
T1 Shape
T1 Flex
3 Weight -- I tour on all but one pair of my skis, but I don't ski on the lightest ski cuz they get knocked around too much
4 Durability
5 Flex options -- would be nice
T6 Technology -- but not just for the sake of technology, i.e., I don't need the latest greatest thing, but if it corresponds to better performance, then hell yeah
T6 Ski finishing -- but only if it corresponds to peformance. Cosmetics are meaningless to me
T8 Graphics -- I don't give a shit

Danno

01-08-2010, 10:13 AM

TTips cross post: http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=891019#891019

El Chupacabra

01-08-2010, 10:16 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

K2 and similar graphics designs are enough to make me pass on the skis, no matter how awesome they might be. If given the choice of any graphics, the simple stuff (DPS, Igneous' wood grain, Prior) is the most attractive. No all-white skis, however -- incredibly stupid.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I expect the skis to be finished to a reasonable standard, i.e., any production ski from any mass-market company is fine (Rossignol, Dynastar, Elan, Salomon, whatever). I don't need it to be $100 race tune perfect, but I don't want fuzzy, unprepped, concave or convex bases.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

All depends on the intended purpose of the ski. I have no need for a full twin tip ski in any conditions, however.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

Same as above -- all depends on the intended purpose of the ski. Personally, I want a stiff ski for hard snow, and a medium flex for soft snow; if it's a pure powder ski, a soft tip is nice.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

Same as above -- depends on the intended purpose of the ski. For powder & touring, light and snappy is nice.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

There are a lot of copycat designs out there from pretty much every company, with a Rossi S7/ Lotus 120/ PM Gear Lhasa shape. They're all going to work pretty well.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

Somewhere in between mad closeout and reasonable discount. I'll never pay full MSRP; I know that the ski -- any ski -- is going to come up somewhere on clearance, or used, and I can wait. I go through a lot of skis.... never really get to the point of destroying them, though I have some Explosivs and Spatulas right now that look pretty harsh.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I don't like die-cut bases. Unnecessary weakness in the base for the sake of graphics. I like wood core skis; never skied a foam core ski that I really liked. Sidewall vs. cap -- doesn't really matter, so long as it's well-constructed. (Salomon's cap skis in recent years have been great.)

I much prefer a quality-prepped base (fast) over a supposedly super-durable hard base. Several pairs of skis I've gone through have had claimed "super hard bases," and I've found that just means they don't take wax well at all, and tend to be really slow. I'm not skiing on rocks on purpose; I don't need skis that can take abusive IFSA comp conditions.

adam

01-08-2010, 10:20 AM

Shaping, price, flex, and durability are my main concerns.

I've seen black diamonds!

01-08-2010, 10:28 AM

1-Shape- I hate big sidecut and expecially big tails
2 for touring, 3 for resort-Weight- I'm not dainty (or skilled) enough for ultralight skis, but does anyone besides Pmgear and DPS make light skis that aren't mediocre or worse? For a resort ski, weight and flex would flip flop
3 for touring-2 for resort-Flex- I hate super soft tails and super stiff tips. On a touring ski, as long as things are balanced, and it isn't a noodle or a 2X4, I can deal. I never think to myself "I wish this ski were 5 percent stiffer." But when skiing very fast in crud or bumps, flex is a much more important factor.
4-Technology- Carbon fiber is good. Also I like the Corriolis cores in my Carradan Mambas
5-Durability- I would put this above Technology, except for the fact I don't break stuff much. I expect skis to hold together unless I do something bad to them.
6-Price- I can't pay $1100 for new skis, but I'll pay $575 for used skis.
7-Finish- I expect flat bases and a semblance of a tune. I'm not convinced a pair a Kastles (which are beautifully made) perform better than other skis that appear more homemade.
8- Graphics- I don't like hip hop themed skis, or flaming skulls, or trippy alien designs, but whatever.

VTsession

01-08-2010, 10:30 AM

1. Shaping is my biggest concern. First thing I look at is turning radius, dimensions, rocker, etc.

2. Price is 2nd. I'm not going to pay big money for ski that I'm going to eventually trash.

3. Flex is also important. Depending on what I'm using the ski for, it can't be too stiff or too flexy. I don't get to technical with flex ratings. If a ski is the right flex I'll know when I ski it.

4. Durability is also up there. I don't plan on a ski lasting ten seasons, but it has to hold together for at least a few years. Like mountain bikes, skis get beat on; they can only perform well so long.

5. Weight isn't that important. I don't even notice the weight of different skis. I just don't want it to weigh a ton.

A ski's construction is also a factor for me. I'd take a sandwhich construction ski, which metal or carbon laminates over a cap ski with just a wood core.

I really don't care about graphics, technology or finishing.

wendigo

01-08-2010, 10:36 AM

My personal preference priorities:
T1 Shape - right tool for the job
T1 Flex -- soft, med, stiff - are nice options - i prefer a fairly round flex
T1 Weight -- I tour on all but one pair of my skis, but I don't ski on the lightest ski cuz they get knocked around too much
4 Durability - no die-cut bases - should be able to take a few shots without going to the core - nice when the topsheets/sidewalls don't chip away after 1 run.
5 Price -- full retail is silly - but willing to pay for quality gear & good CS
T6 Technology -- not just for the sake of technology, i.e., I don't need the latest greatest thing, but if it corresponds to better performance, then hell yeah
T6 Ski finishing -- matched and flat - I'll adjust everything else.
T8 Graphics -- I don't give a shit - but simple is good -

butterscotch

01-08-2010, 10:51 AM

In order:

1. Shape - I hate big sidecuts/short radii as well. I also care about taper in relation to the rocker/camber profile.

2. Flex - This combined with shape, defines whether I'm interested in the ski. I don't care about options. IMO, flex should be matched to shape and intended use.

3. Price - This is the next step for me. I usually buy a new pair of skis every year and haven't paid more than $450. No way in hell am I paying $800 or more. There's just too many good options out there.

4. Durability - It's not that I beat the shit out of my skis, but I want to get my money's worth. To this end, I won't buy foam core skis and try to buy sidewall skis.

5. Finishing - This is important to me because it seems to indicate whether the manufacturer has their shit together or not, i.e. a well-finished ski indicates attention to detail and quality throughout.

6. Technology, graphics, and weight. These are all about the same to me, by which I mean that none of them matter if the ski rocks and none of them would make me buy the ski if it didn't rock.

Meathelmet

01-08-2010, 10:51 AM

One-to-Ten Scale

1. graphics?

4
Of course.Otherwise it would be like choosing your wife just on the basis of of her personality and...uh..wait?
But yes,gfx many times is the stimulus.Good gfx show the "personality" of the ski and can make the final buy-this-ski-instead-of-some-other-ski stimuli.
But you can allways ad some jetblack spray (ia. to im.103...)

2. ski finishing

6
Of course. It is important but not a deal braker,obviously good craftmanship usually gives away how well the ski is made=durability=good stimuli.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

10

Most important.Dictates how the ski skis. That is why I buy skis. I want a skis that skis like I would wish it skis:fast,playfull,stable,nimble etc.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

9
Very important,but not as much as the shape. You can get by with a bit softer ski that otherwise behaves like a dream.You sacrifice maybe a bit in top speed or in superfunky snow,but..

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

7
Matters a bit. You choose your tools for the trade. For a charger ski you might want a bit extra mass to push through the crud or if you are doing week long tours it might be a bit dumb to use spatulas,even if they could
be sweet on the down. But I tend to choose skis more on their other charasteristics (?). I have my go-high-go-far-do-it-all ski=Legend Pro.
But I put dynafits on them and that way they are reasonably light but I didnt have to sacrifice skiability one iota.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

2
Couldnt give a flying fuck.If it works,it works.
But new technologies invariably do not work in the first generations,so I steer away from them.Sometimes.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

5
I usually scrounge all my stuff from friends (importers etc) or from firesales or other deals. But if I cant find them there and I need something,I do not have objectations to pay full price.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

6
Meh. I am lightweighter and light footed so that has never been a issue for me.

DudeLebowSKI

01-08-2010, 11:00 AM

In order of importance:

1. Shaping - Shape and length are what originally draw me to a particular ski.

2. Flex - I can like the shape and length but if it isn't a flex (IMO) that matches what I want the ski to do it's a deal breaker. Flex options would be much appreciated!

3. Durability - I hit lots of rocks. I haven't bought a non-sandwich constructed ski in years and years.

4. Technology - I have a quiver so I enjoy seeing the R&D behind new ski design and if a new design fits a particular hole in the quiver that's great.

5. Price - If all of the above fit perfectly I don't really care about price.

6. Ski finishing - Depends on the price. If the price is high (above $900) I want the workmanship to be top notch. If the price is low (below $600) I can accept some faults but nothing that can't be fixed. IE. bad tune, railed base would be fine.

7. Graphics - I can learn to like ugly gawdy graphics if conditions 1 - 3 are met. Sometimes graphics can turn me off right away though.

8. Weight - Only really matters when looking at AT setups or if a particular ski is slightly longer than I am looking for or slightly stiffer.

hway2

01-08-2010, 11:12 AM

1. shaping?

Things that determine how a ski skis are the most important. No use buying a ski without the right specs and camber/rocker profile. Flex is a very close second. for example, the Zealot looks perfect in terms of specs and profile for my next resort ski, but the flex is not quite there for me. If you took the flex of the german made gotamas and cast that in the specs/profile mold of the zealot - I would be pretty happy (maybe G3 will have something like that next year with their joyride 2 offerings to come)

2. flex and flex options?

Another must-have like described above. although, I have been surprised by a few skis that are very stiff, but still ski very easily, the 192cm goliath is a great example of that.

3. ski finishing?

If they affect how it skis it matters for sure. Some of the finishing things you mentioned are less important because they are easily fixed - structure I think can be addressed and for off piste skis I am not sure it matters. mis matched camber though is cause to return a ski.

4. durability?

I sell skis much sooner than I should because designs have been getting better and I learn more about what I like as I go. i do care about durability - especially with touring gear, but I have to admit most skis I sell are in very good shape. That said, when I find a ski I really like (reverends, old gots) I keep them and am happy when they hold up, like both of those have

5. weight?

How this is prioritized really depends on the purpose of the ski. but, for all skis, even resort pow skis, I know I like a med to med-light ski. the thug, for example, was a nice light weigh, so was the sanouk. I liked that about those skis for performance reasons - not because i toured on them. Too light and its a problem, but some lightish skis dont suffer from the problems others do, for example, older gots, reverends, king salmons and coombas (although less so) ski like stout skis without the weight.

6. graphics?

I care. i have to admit i am less interested in the sidestash even though it checks a lot of boxes in terms of the in-area ski I am looking for. In general I like simple graphics. Blue sanouks were nice. Build me a 2010 zealot with old got construction and a pure green topsheet like the new dps pure topsheets and I am a happy buyer.

7. price?

If the right ski comes along I will buy from the local store at close to full retail, but most things I buy used. how many i buy a year depends on whats happening with the quiver. next year, probably one pair and sell two.

8. technology?

I am glad tip rocker came along, and a lot of less helpful things probably had to come along to get the rare advancement, but pushing design is not something I prioritize.

schuss

01-08-2010, 11:42 AM

1. graphics?
Could care less. Cool stuff like the woody sanouks is neat, but it isn't a dealbreaker
2. ski finishing
I care, but only to the extent that I notice it skiing/tuning

3. shaping?
Either it works or it doesn't.

4. flex and flex options?
Options are good, especially if you like the shape, but really I just need a nice medium flex. I think the more important piece is that there's a flex for every major segment of your market.

5. weight?
I like damp skis mostly, but like having at least one poppy one in my quiver. Lighter weight=better, provided nothing else is sacrificed.

6. technology?
It has to work, and it has to be built right.
7. price?
I hate paying more than $250 for skis, as I'm a cheap bastard, but would probably do it if I found a ski that was perfect for me.
8. durability?
This is huge for me. In 30 days or less a year, I burn up at least 1 pair a season. I'm good at breaking stuff. VERY GOOD. To give an example, I have yet to meet a cap ski I can put more than 20 hard days on without the edge separating.

In order: 3, 8, 4, 2, 7, 6, 5, 1

frorider

01-08-2010, 11:47 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

somewhat important, but not a deal breaker. prefer simple/classic graphics like dps but also like the graphics on my moment and praxis skis

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care? important, especially if spending $$$. yes, i know how to check this stuff. at the very least, flat base, no gaps or shitty finish tolerances, matched camber & flex.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc. my quiver is around 10-12 pairs, with a wide range of designs & shapes, so it's hard to answer your question. but my main category of skis these days are in the all mtn / pow category (e.g. katana, lotus 120) so shallow sidecut, pintail, mild tip/forebody rocker, flat or very mild camber underfoot.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options? important. in general, i prefer skis at the stiffer end of the spectrum, but i realize that not everyone does, so i really like the option of choosing a stiff version. this can be accomplished by flex options in a given length (like DPS), or having two models e.g. a softish 192 for some customers, and a stiff 196 for customers like me.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care? again, depends on what part of the quiver you're talking about. for my resort skis, i strongly prefer my damp, heavy, metal lam skis (im103s, katanas, etc). for BC i'm willing to trade some performance for light weight. DPS flex 3 are the first low weight BC ski that i've found satisfactory, but frankly i almost never ski my lotus 120s or w105s at the resorts since my other skis (comi kazis, katanas, im103s, big daddies, etc) outperform them.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different? Yep, have always been a guinea pig for new designs and constructions, and will always try to support companies that are trying new approaches. Important attribute and one that I will pay more for, within reason.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last? Somewhat important but depends. For a basic mainstream twintip, i'm not gonna pay more than $300. For a quality hardwood metal lam ski, I'll gladly pay $300-$500 on sale or thru my industry friends. For a truly unique product like a DPS, i'll pay $700 or more but don't do that often since i see skis as a consumable item that gets broken or worn out.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care? Very important. Prefer strong sidewall construction that resists compression damage, thick edges, thick and hard base, no die cuts. Very impressed w/ the Praxis skis in this regard -- a ski built for places like kirkwood and squaw. Brands that gain this type of durability reputation can, and do, charge more.

btw i'm a tele skier but have one pair of boards mounted AT. used to be that my tele friends all had budget, somewhat crappy skis, but these days it seems that my tele brethren are all over 30 with real jobs and drop serious cash on what TGR would consider the better skis on the market.

LivinCO

01-08-2010, 11:52 AM

1-Shape - Most important, has to be specific to a certain snow/terrain type, or quiver of 1 shape. Companies should give this more thought - not just produce a shape to be different.

2-Flex - This is about as important as Shape...IMO. Flex should be appropriate to overall ski type and length.

3-Weight - More weight = more energy, so generally if strength can be achieved with lower weight, all the better.

4-Technology - Core material, CF and Glass being used in new ways to reach goals of 1-3 above.

5-Durability - I'm paying good money, skis should last 70+ days (or at least 10 days at Arockahoebasin)

6-Finish - Should be a finished, clean, splinter-less, true product, but not of the most importance. If above are addressed, finish will most likely be handled.

7-Price- I'll pay for quality, but expect a good warranty to accompany the higher price.

8-Graphics- DPS, High Society FR, Folsom are definitely how skis should look. Time and $ should be spent elsewhere.

telepariah

01-08-2010, 11:56 AM

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
As many have said above, I care most about the factors that determine what the ski does best.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?
Again, to repeat what others have said, I like a flex pattern that is aligned with what I want the ski to do.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
I am a known chepaskate -- actually my wife is the really cheap one. If my wife would let me, I would spend lots of money on gear but I have a very limited budget. As a result, I tend to buy a lot of gear used. I know it doesn't help the industry but that's where I'm at right now.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?
I kind of care about weight but am conflicted because I like the way a damp ski feels skiing down but for touring I appreciate a little less weight after a lot of steps.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?
I used to be a lot rougher on my equipment than I am these days. And I do all my own shop work, so this is not as important to me as it was when I was younger.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?
New skis should be matched and be reasonably flat, but I have traditionally seen so little quality in finishing of skis over the years that I am used to putting the tune on them that I want and don't care what they look like when I am using them.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?
Nice, but not very high on my list.

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?
Well, while I don't like crazy designs when I see them in the shop, on snow I really don't care much at all, as long as they don't have swastikas or some other evil shit. I do like wood veneers or simply glass over core. Lowest priority for me.

Thanks for asking! :yourock:

wcf3

01-08-2010, 12:07 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

Don't care that much, but can be put off by truely ugly graphics (e.g. latest K2 sidestash/darkside etc.).

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I care, I notice and I check. I've sent skis back that I ordered if they were off enough.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

Like others have stated, 'it depends'. Looking at my current quiver, there is a clear preference for skis with some tip rocker, no tail rocker and not much side cut. This combination tends to perform the best of the shape/sidecut combos in variable snow (a high priority for me) while still reasonably decent on steep firm snow (a second high priority). Don't like pintails, since they tend to washout on steep firm snow.

For some resort skiing (little new snow) I like a ski with a lot of side cut, not too wide in the waiste, for billy-goating, trees and bump skiing.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

Flex mostly needs to harmonize well with the sidecut/shape. Nice to have options, but not super important. Tend to like stiff tails though.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

Own, like and tour on some of the lightest (DPS 120's) and some of the heaviest things out there (XXL's, soli Rockers). Big mountain skiing (AK, LL) prefer heavy. Resort skiing and mellow touring, light.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I do care and am willing to be on the bleeding edge.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

Not very price sensitive and am willing to pay up. I've bought as many as four pair in a year, but I've also gone for years without a purchase.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

Durability is mostly important in that I don't want gear to leave me stranded. Don't care about core shots/top sheets or anything that can be easily fixed or ignored. If edges rip out easily though hitting rocks, I won't go there. (I hit a lot of rocks).

Priority from top to bottom.

Shape/sidecut, flex (can't really seperate these)
Weight
Durability
Finish
Price
Technology
Graphics

Toadman

01-08-2010, 12:11 PM

QUOTE=marshalolson;2690404]it would be interesting to see people rank these items in terms of importance, and then write a sentance or two explaining each line.

if someone has a NS account or TTips account, it might also be cool to post this over there and post a link so we can see what everyone is thinking...

awesome. i guess this is your chance to speak your mind on design. i am going to send the results around to a bunch of various contacts[/QUOTE]

Here's my ranking, and rationale...

8. graphics? - A: Don't really care, although flowery pink and girly colors might make me really have to suck it up in the lift line. But if the ski kicks ass, well then...pink it is!

5. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care? - A: This is a tough one. I am somewhat anal about this but put it lower on the list because I don't think at the end of the day the ski finish affects performance as much as shape and flex, but it's really close for me.

1. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc. - A: I find this to be number one because if you are talking in terms of dims, this sets the choice for what you want in a ski, i.e. pow, groomers, park, or all mtn.

2. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options? - A: Again a soft flexing ski or a stiff ski will dictate a lot in terms of how you ski, anad what you are looking for in a ski. I have different pairs of skis with different flex for different snow conditions, so this is obviously high in my mind when considering a ski,

7. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care? - A: Just side country touring and weight is not a major issue for me. I tend to prefer something mid-weight with some pop, or liveliness. Although, now and again a good stiff ski can be a blast but wouldn't want to ride a stiff damp ski all season long.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different? - A: Would support a company that is doing something new and cool but the problem is I really like to demo a ski before I buy. I can think of one ski in 10 years I bought based on input from ski community w/o demoing. And often time finding a demo of a boutique cutting edge ski co. is hard to come by.

4. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
A: I have never paid full MSRP for a ski/boot/pole/gloves/goggles/etc... I buy about one ski pair every other year.
I have a pair of Dynastar Legend 8000's that I've had for 5 years now. Skied them maybe 60-70 times in that time period. Just had them tuned/stone ground/base structure, etc. I think I can get a few more yrs out of them with some TLC, so I don't think it is unreasonable to get at least 100 days out of a ski. Mine still feel like the first day I got on 'em.

3. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care? - A: Don't care if cap or sandwich or base material, just as long as it isn't soft. I think if you are going to drop some serious dough for a ski set up, you want it to last. Same goes for my boots. A guy on a pair of the early foam core salomons was dismayed out how fast they turned to noodles. Who doesn't want a durable ski?

WyoWill

01-08-2010, 02:00 PM

3. shaping - It really depends on why I'm buying the ski. I'll always have a standard camber ski ready to go, but want some rocker for my pow ski. I don't have an endless quiver so I look for versatile shapes.

4. flex - I like medium flexing skis and want versatility. Having different options available only matters if the standard options isn't to my liking.

2. ski finishing - I check and would notice. I won't buy a ski that has obvious flaws or irregularities.

8. durability - I want my skis to last years. I had a string of 3-4 years where I was breaking skis left and right, and got very concerned about durability.

5. weight - I mostly tour so I want light-weight skis.

7. price - Price is important, but I'm willing to pay up if it's a ski I'm really lusting after. Most of my skis were close outs, end of season sales, or purchased used.

6. technology - I like new technology and innovation, but want a ski that is versatile and will last a long time so I generally don't offer myself up as a guinea pig.

1. graphics - Simple graphics ala DPS are the best. Lighter colors prefered. This isn't a deal breaker for me, but gets factored in when I can't otherwise choose between two skis.

Edited to clarify that the numbers are from the original post, but I rearranged everything so the top is most important and the bottom is least important

flip

01-08-2010, 02:23 PM

1. Graphics? I prefer understated graphics. The early Nordicas and now the DPs are my favorite skis, and actually stand out from the crowd for their simplicity. I'd like to say graphics don't matter, but they were the reason I bought two pairs of Nordicas way back when.

2. Ski finishing? Skis don't need to be a perfect match, but shouldn't be so out of spec you have mad camber on a powder ski, or flat camber on an all-mountain ski. No need for race prep, but should arrive flat and sharp, ready for wax.

3. Shaping? This and flex are the most important aspects. This narrows down the playing field. I like versatile shapes, as I'm trying to downsize my quiver. Just bought a Lhasa Pow 186, but honestly would have taken the same shape a touch narrower for it to be my true everyday ski. Was also looking at the BD Justice and Praxis Backcountry.

4. Flex? I like a medium stiffness, roughly a 4-5 on your scale. Prefer consistent flex, maybe a touch of progressive stiffness underfoot. I've had a lot of stiff skis (XXL, im103, explosive, axoim) and I have more fun on slightly softer skis like the BD Verdict. Options only matter if you're not making a ski in that medium flex.

5. Weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? I tend to make shorter turns these days, and prefer a high energy, lightweight ski. Dampness at speed is an appreciated bonus. Especially for touring, lightweight is critical (3rd most important factor after shape and flex).

6. Technology? I care, in as much as it produces the shape, flex, and versatility I want from a ski. I like trying new things, but I won't plunk down money until a few other folks have tried it and stamped their approval.

7. Price? Wasting money on cheap skis that are wrong for me has made me less price motivated, but $500 is still the absolute upper end of what I'll spend on a ski. $400 is the most I've spent to date. Given two options of similar shape and flex from reputable MFGs, cost is the next factor and a differential of more than $50 would make the deal.

8. Durability? Thick edges are more important than lightweight, and hard bases are much more important than fast bases. Put cheap, hard PTEX on that bitch, not soft,absorbent race-bases. I don't care about die cutting or graphics on the base. If anything they just make my repairs uglier because I can't match PTEX color.

Critical factors - flex, shape, price (for touring, also weight), basic level of finish/QA
Secondary factors - durability, superb finish/QA, (both previous considered against price) weight, feel (damp vs. energetic... I like the middle ground)
Tertiary - Graphics, technology (in as much as it's separate from shape, flex and weight), MFG size and location (prefer to support the little and local guy)

Jarle

01-08-2010, 02:48 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

Design doesn't really matter but if a good ski looks sick, that's a plus. Like my graphics simple but nice art like the EHP isn't bad

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

Of course I wan't my skis to be the best they can and I do check them but small differences in camber/rocker is so hard to tell when skiing so that doesn't really matter, if they're small. Prefer my bases flat with a decent structure although structure isn't that important since I'm most likely to fill the bases with holes and P-tex pretty fast anyway.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

This is the most important thing for me a good shape with matching rocker and/or camber dictates how it will ski.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

I like my flexpatterns nice and even, like soft to medium stiff skis, I would say that the pattern and shape is more important than soft/stiff flex, IMHO.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

I like my skis damped, but not necessarily heavy, the EHP isn't that heavy but still damp.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I like new tech, as long as it's good and I really like supporting companies that makes new and good stuff.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I usually buy one or two pairs/season. Expect my skis to hold up for a season (ca 100 + days) but then they are pretty trashed. Price is very important, as a skibum you don't really have a lot of cash but if I find a ski I usually find a way to get them ro a reasonable price, if not, poor me.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

A good ski is a good ski, bases can be fixed with P-tex. A lot of my skis has been sidewall but as said, a good ski is a good ski.

it would be interesting to see people rank these items in terms of importance

1 - Shape, flexpattern and dampeness (or whatever you're supposed to call it)
2 - Flex
3 - Durability/finishing
3 - Price
4 - Graphics

That being said I think it's a combination of all of the above (except the graphics) that makes an awesome ski and if I'm choosing between two similar skis price probably makes the decision.

CarlE

01-08-2010, 02:52 PM

As said before, the properties that makes the ski better/more fun than other skis that I might consider are the most important. After that I value more logical properties such as price and durability, and in a way finish. I am a student and can't spend too much, but I do have 4 pairs of skis... hmmm... And last and not important at all, graphics...

So if I'd rank them:

#3 Shape, it is about turning after all.
#4 Flex, it sure can destroy an otherwise perfect ski!
#6 Technology, maybe not 333skis the first year, but I love my DPS and ON3P are tempting!
#8 Durability, if it's not fun for more than a few months before it breaks down, I wont buy!
#7 Price, if it is so cheap that I can buy a new pair after a few months, it's a big plus!
#2 Ski finish, I think I would notice poorly installed edges or something similiar, but if it doesn't affect performance or durability I don't give a shit.
#5 Weight, sure a light ski is nice but if it skis the same as a lighter ski, I would let other factors decide.
#1 Graphics, it's just something to make weak minds buy skis. If a pair of Lotus 138 had My Little Pony graphics, I'd want them even more! ;-)

mountain_man

01-08-2010, 05:27 PM

Shaping
Flex
Durability
Finishing
Graphics
Weight
Price
Technology

XtrPickels

01-08-2010, 05:43 PM

In loose order of importance
3. shaping. Different skis have different uses, I really like the shape of the s7 for a pow stick, but its hard to beat the old LP shape for harder snow days.

4. flex and flex options? I don't think that countless options matter, unless you're trying to please everyone. I prefer a medium-stiff ski explosiv etc.

7. price? Lets face it, I'm not made of money. If two skis are similar, I'm choosing the cheaper option.

6. technology? I don't support anyone specifically because they are doing things different. I'd buy the product if different was awesome. I'd love to support startups given the right bargain.

2. ski finishing I buy a lot of used skis, so this stuff is almost irrelevant. However if I were buying something new it'd be nice to not have to put work into the ski to make it skiable. Matching camber/flex seems like a no-brainer.

5. weight? Different strokes for different folks. I have heavy damp and light springy in the quiver and I like 'em both.

8. durability? I've never "knock on wood" had an issue with ski durability.

1. graphics? I don't really care, but i'd prefer no murder scenes.

JayPowHound

01-08-2010, 05:59 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?
Graphics are extremely low on the priority list. They would NEVER make or break a decision on which ski to buy. That said, if the option was available, my taste leans towards the simple designs ala dps.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?
This matters quite a bit to me, although I have to admit that I rarely check for things like structure and flatness when I get a new ski, although perhaps I should. If they were off enough to notice while skiing I would not be happy.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
This is a big determining factor for which skis I want/buy. I'm a quiver kind of guy, and prefer the right tool for the right job. Depending on what I'm in the market for, sidecut/shape and rocker make all the difference in the world!

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?
Flex matters as much, if not more than shape does. Options are nice!

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?
Weight is not a huge concern to me. If I want to buy a touring ski it will matter. For alpine I don't care all that much.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?
Interesting new designs that do things no ski has been able to do before are cool. If they line up with my needs for a particular purchase I'm all about it!

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
I will always do everything that I possibly can to get the best deal available. That being said, price will never deter me from buying the ski that I want, even if I can't find the deal I want.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?
Durability means a lot to me, as I tend to be rather rough on gear. Sidewall skis with durable (hard) bases seem to last longer, which is always a good thing!

stuckathuntermtn

01-08-2010, 06:14 PM

1. Although I like when my skis look cool, graphics are a pretty low to non-existent priority for me. I didn't like the Hellboy graphics on my Explosives, but after a while they grew on my and sure do get attention.

2. Finish is a big deal for me. Although I probably wouldn't be able to tell if the flex, camber, tune, etc. were a little off, it represents quality of product to me.

3. Shape and flex are tied for most important since it will give you a good idea what it will ski like sight unseen. I like a stiff tail, and a one ski quiver.

4. see 3.

5. weight isn't super important to me. I'd like to start touring one day and maybe then it will be, but most skis nowadays are plenty light enough for lift served skiing.

6. not a super high priority. If it skis well, it could be made out of dried poop. Usually, the skis that ski most well are traditional sandwich sidewall, at least for me.

7. As a broke-ass turd, price is very important, although right now a ski for $250 might as well be a ski for $1M and with my arm in a sling, i wouldn't be buying new gear even if I had the money.

8. Durability is very important. A ski should be able to withstand rock hits within reason, and being knocked over. It obviously shouldn't come apart while skiing it. I don't huck, so I don't foresee myself snapping something in half or ripping a binding out.

Huckin eh?

01-08-2010, 09:40 PM

1) 3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

New shaping technology is still taking off, and I like the experiments. I like rocker! I like tail rocker more than a lot of people obviously since most rockered skis out there are only rockered tips (Splat! I would own a pair of Lhasa's by now if the tail was rockered a bit. ( I love my toons, and whats coming next.) Most big ski manufacturers havent listened to Shane yet. Full rockered or reverse camber skis need to be 10cm longer than your sidecut shaped ski. As a 6 footer who ski's 189-191 sidecut skis, why cant I find a 199 pontoon, or something of similar characteristics in a 197-200cm length????

2) 6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I like to support those pushing the design limits past the status quo. Its been working well lately, though to get what I want I feel the need to go custom again.

3) 2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I expect good quality. Skis arent cheap!

4) 5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

I find I want to tour on most of my skis since thats where I spend most of my time, so yes weight is an issue. Another reason to go custom.

5) 8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I havent had a problem with die cuts on my pistols nor my toons. If they are done well, no problem. See #4. high end priced skis had better be durable.

6) 4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

I ride pow, so driving through crud isnt a necessity so I can give some on flex. However, going custom gives you the choice!

7) 7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I buy 1 pair of skis a year (since 2004). When I find what I want, I want it, and I want it now. And yes I expect them to last.

8) 1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I like the Pilsner beer can label graphics a-la 4frnt, I like cool new ideas! Having said that, I dont think puking blood skulls are cool, though I'm not 18 anymore (And gee, I have more money to burn than your average 18-24 yr old)! Maiden AK's = cool (Eddie rocks). Hellbent = meh. Wait till y'all see whats coming this year!

schussfahrt

01-09-2010, 12:54 AM

1. Graphics. Not really important, but I do like bright colors. My Lhasa 186's pukey green rocks. My maroon budha exploders were classy but boring. My current fav's are my 08-09 Goliath Sluffs. Love the pixelated crazy topsheet.

2. Ski finishing: very important. I am willing to drop top dollar for nice sticks and want the consistent top notch quality for the coin. I used to ski lots of Volkls, they were fine a few years ago -don't know anymore. My Lhasas fucking ROCK in performance, and the overall experience is solid (including buying from Splat -), but they weren't tuned to my expectations. No big deal, I can fix that myself. But they cost a lot, and so I didn't appreciate the basegrind gouge in the tail. There are very minor weird bubbles in the topsheet. My three pairs of Movements have been perfect in every way -no blems, consistent, beautiful tune, etc. No they don't make as innovative skis as Splat, however.

3. Shaping. Very important. I like pretty different shapes based on the mountain and snow choice of the day. I like shorter, but not supershort radius skis in hardpack (18-21m R), but relatively flat skis in soft snow and steeps -exploders, Lhasas, etc. My Goliath Sluffs are pretty versatile for high speed anything, but when its really shitty conditions my softer flexed Gladiator at mellower speeds is eaassssy all day. Obviously can't charge as hard though. Don't have a lot of rocker/camber experience other than I can hang over the tips of my Lhasas HARD in about anything and have yet to sink one (I'm light).

4. Flex. Important, but less than shape. I ski pretty fast all the time, so stiff underfoot counts. Like Movement flex best, Metal volkls used to be cool, but I always bend them and then they are ruined. My Lhasas are solid, but could be a touch (just a touch) softer underfoot -(I'm very light). Love the stiff tails for pops and landings.

5.Weight. I like light skis. I do lots of billy-goat lines, hop turns, etc. I like to pop off of moguls into the next-next one. Movement, Lhasas rock. volkls, elans, sturdy but too heavy for my playful style of skiing.

6. Technology. Mostly looking for top quality materials, not weird new ski construction. Okume, poplar, beach, maple = good. Carbon = good. Not a fan of heavy damp, metal layers. Proven layups with better materials is more appealing to me.

7. Price. Will pay top dollar for top performers. Would like to see my money go to the best materials possible in a ski, not weird new layups and bizzare shapes.

8. Durability. Important. Again, have bad luck with bending metal layer skis (volklys, elans, stoklis) in bumps. Strangely, I have better durability with lighter, all wood-core skis. Again, I am light. So far, my Goliath Sluffs (w/ nano base) and my Lhasas have been the most durable skis I have had. Red bases seem pretty hard, die cutting tolerances to edges/tip metal/end metal are O.K. but not great. (They do fucking ROCK for performance however). Broke Gladiators, explosives, and bent a few other volkls and a couple older elans. Hard base are cool, but you have to iron them a lot -o.k. for me.

Shorty_J

01-09-2010, 01:52 AM

I had some detailed answers, but I'm drunk and fucked it up, so here's some compressed answers.

1. graphics?
Understated. Statements should me made with ability.

2. ski finishing
Having to send a new car in for a tune-up would be un-acceptible.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
Personal preference. I will usually trust a manufacturere here... I'm not an expert or I would make my own skis.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?
Nice to have options.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?
I like both.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?
Technology is less important than execution.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
Price is a big factor. Everyone says their ski is the best, and I can't test them all, so I'll usually by the cheapest of the available options of those that fit the general need I'm going for.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?
I have lots of skis. They shouldn't delam, but base damage is a fact of life.

single

01-09-2010, 11:10 AM

gisforgaper

01-09-2010, 11:11 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

Yes, but not much. As a previous poster said, I have a hard time buying K2 simply becasue of thier freeride graphics line. My favorites are the hand painted ones, 4frnt are the best, the praxis japanese lake/mountain are good, the moments are kinda fun too.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?
Yes!!! I was pissed that I had to spend $100 to grind, bevel and wax my bibby when they arrived. I do know how to check, and the bases were horribly finished. More minor gripes are that the edge to base gap was uneven, but perfectly acceptable for a handmade ski. My German made Volkls and Chinese Lines were very good when they arrived.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
If I could find a Mothership with tip rocker in a 190 that floated a bit better I'd sell all my skis for them. Like the bibby in the pow/soft, like my mantras on hardpack, love my motherships everywhere except 12"+. Really seems like a little tip rocker/extra length would fix that.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?
It seems to me like each shape and construction has an ideal flex. So when buying options it always seems like I'm buying a compromise rather than an perfect skiing tool. In any case my taste is stiff to medium stiff.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?
Light is cool, but my skiing likes heavy and damp. Don't tour but like every pouser gaper, I want to start.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?
Yes! I'll buy a 9 on the skiing front over a 10 if it's trying something new. It seems important to me to help in sponsoring the next big thing, otherwise I'm just riding the coat tails of the guys really trying to make skiing better tomorrow than it is today.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
Not particularly motivated by price. In the big scheme of things an extra $200-300 for the ski you really want vs the one you can afford isn;t much on top of passes, places to stay, gas, etc. I buy a new setup each year whether I need it or not. Typically not more than 1 though, unless my wife needs something (bought 2 setups this year for that reason).

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?
Of course durability matters; I'm not price picky, but I expect the ski company to respect that and not cheap out on anything - don't skimp on me, I don't skimp on you. Die-cuts are kinda fun, but I won't make a buying decision over them. Sublimated bases seem not as fast, and thus not as cool but they sure look awesome (i.e. bibby). Prefer sidewall/sandwich but I guess I don't care about it if they ski and last the same.

InspectorGadget

01-09-2010, 01:31 PM

Let me start by saying I've been a Volkl devotee since I worked for the company in the early to mid 80s. I've owned other brands since then, but I rarely ski them. I've always been amazed at how Volkl will improve a ski - like the Gotama, for instance - from year to year. I've never, ever, been disappointed with a pair of Volkls. There have been times that I didn't buy the next year's model because the graphics didn't appeal to me, but they still skied well.

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

As an example, I absolutely can't stand the guns, skulls, etc. on K2's men's skis. That alone would keep me from buying the damn things. Well, that, and the fact that they're K2s. I prefer an understated graphic, but will buy a ski with a loud graphic if it appeals to me.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?
A well built ski generally comes out of the box pretty well tuned; maybe not perfect, but reasonably close. I generally won't spend the money for a world cup quality tune, I'll drop down one level. Podium in Park City does high quality ski work.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
Blind faith --> see opening statement. Also, I assume any ski I would actually purchase is going to have the right sidecut for it's intended purpose.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?
Blind faith --> see opening statement. Also, I assume any ski I would actually purchase is going to have the right flex for it's intended purpose.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?
If I did a lot of touring, I would certainly want a lighter ski. Otherwise, I think weight is a factor in the parking lot. A ski that performs well will almost always feel light(er) on your feet.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?
I've always liked the feel and longevity of a wood core ski. Wood may not be technologically new, but they keep finding new ways to assemble all the pieces-parts and the skis keep getting better.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
I got my first job in the ski shop when I was 12 and haven't paid retail for a pair of skis since. Some years I will buy 2 or 3 pair of skis, other years I won't buy any. The answer is it depends.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?
There was a period when Rossi, Dynastar and some other brands were building foam core skis that skied great. For about 2 weeks. Then they went flat and were uninspiriing to say the least. As I said above, give me a wood core, sidewall ski and I'm confident I will have a ski that will go the distance. All things being equal, hard bases are also generally fast bases. Since I don't get any design input, things like die-cuts don't make any difference to me. whatsoever.

Did I mention I prefer Volkl skis. ;)

Daywalker

01-09-2010, 07:11 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I have never bought a ski for a topsheet. Unless a ski was clearly better then everything else in its category, I would have a hard time buying one that has nudity, guns, or other potentially embarrassing stuff on it. If I don't want my co-workers or parents seeing it, I would think twice about buying it. It's cool to have options on topsheets (old Igneous, new Praxis, etc.).

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I would like to say it matters, but I ski them out of the box and only occasionally get tunes. I have never checked any of that stuff.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

IMPORTANT. This is the main thing I look for buying skis. I doubt I'll buy another ski without tip rocker (ever).

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

Does not matter if there are options. Some skis work with how they are made and skied, others do not. EP Pros and Bacons are fun on the soft end, Stiff Bros and whatnot are fun on the med-stiff end. I don't like supastiff skis but there are enough people out there who do.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

Again, there is a spectrum for a reason. My preference is towards light for touring, mid-weight for inbounds. No metal for me. I will take a bit of deflection in crud on those light touring skis for the weight bonus.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

Supporting innovative companies - yes. Would I be a first year 'beta tester' on some ridiculous new technology, probably not.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

Somewhat price-motivated in that I'm more tempted by deals. I would pay full price for something truly lust-worthy (a la DPS) but only if I had enough of a reason for it. If the $$$ ski companies want my money they had better provide some demos. I buy ~2 pair a year and expect them to last until I break or sell them.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

Die-cut is stupid. Hard bases are good. I don't expect a ski to survive forever. If I land on rocks and explode it it's my own damn fault. More durable skis will impress me and make me more likely to buy from the company again.

Ranking:
3, 4, 6, 8, 7, 5, 2, 1

Beyond

01-09-2010, 07:56 PM

My ranks and comments below questions:

1. graphics? do you care?

#4 If I'm going to drop 5 to 10 benjamins, I want a ski I don't mind looking at. Stayed away from Atomics for a long time largely because a bunch of white Austrian guys deployed ignorant stereotypes of urban black culture. Also not big on current wave of pro skiers or hangers-on who think they're also artists. My 7 year old can outdo most of them. Idies, take a lesson from DPS. K2, stop trying to be teen rad when we all know your serious profits come from middle aged guys with bad knees and rentals.

2. ski finishing - if it was off, would you notice or care?

#3; Bros lose points from me for this. Kastles gain points. I notice.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

#1 Crucial for basic performance parameters.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

#2 Isn't that why we choose one model over another (or go to Folsom)?

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

#5 To a point. Heavier for groomers and ice, lighter for backside. I reject too lively, prefer smooth. But not lifeless (K2 take note).

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope?

#7 Not really. Prefer quality and execution to innovation.

7. price?

#8 Least relevant issue for me. Calculate the price of a season of skiing (pass, tickets, food, travel etc.) versus the price of a ski. The contribution of a great ski is worth more than saving a couple of hundred bucks.

8. durability?

#6 Middling important. If the topsheets peel off or the ski delams for little reason, I'll go elsewhere next time. But I don't crucify my equipment anyway.

cooks

01-10-2010, 04:55 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?
7. They are not all too important. Although while they won't make a ski for me, they can break it if they are truly terrible. I prefer either simple stuff, hand paint, and some nicely done hand paint

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?
6. Matching camber and flex is important, I do know how to check for rocker and camber, but not really accurately the flex. I can live with a ski that doesn't come with a completely flat base and perfect structure and a generally not perfect finish.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
1. Most important. I prefer skis with a more gradual rocker, not big and abrupt (ala hellbent). A 30-35m radius is what I generally prefer in a daily driver, in powder a R/R ski is usually my go to type.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?
2. I don't need countless options but a soft, stiff, and mayber super stiff would be nice. I prefer very stiff skis in general (daily driver is M1) but I'm beginning to like playful pow skis more and more.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?
5. I don't tour but would like to start. Weight isn't too important to me but I like skis being at least somewhat light for hiking. I prefer poppyer, more reactive skis over extremely damp

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?
8. If it works well for me, I don't really care about pushing the design envelope. I'd rather have a very durable ski.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
3. Considering I'm in high school, price is very important. I try to limit myself to buying skis only every couple years. I won't/can't pay full price for many skis

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?
4. I care quite a bit about the hardness of my bases as much of my skiing is on rocks. I prefer a sidewall ski. I prefer not to have die cuts under foot although I can live with them

nickwm21

01-10-2010, 04:16 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I prefer simple artwork. Nothing to crazy. Its not very important either.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

If the ski was not good quality, I would care a lot.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
I like a 25-30cm turn radius. Front rocker for a wider soft snow ski. Slight tail rocker on pow dedicated skis. I dont have experience on RR

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

I like stiff skis for resort hard, crud, variable. I like medium skis on soft snow. I like 3 options: stiff, med, soft.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

Heavy skis are nice for resort crud, light skis are nice for touring

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

of course!

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

one set a year at the most. Usually buy off season to avoid high prices. Would pay 700 at most. I would be upset if my skis broke b4 150ish days

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

i hit a lot of rocks, the more durable the better.

ORDER: 2,3,4,8,5,7,6,1

highangle

01-10-2010, 04:25 PM

what? another marketing survey from the ski industry?

gee, wish i had the time...

jerr

01-10-2010, 07:55 PM

Me = got quiver, 50+ days a year, 35yr, been skiing my whole life.

3, Dimensions - Once I decide there is a niche in the quiver I want to fill I've usually got an underfoot width bracket to start with. (although occasionally I have started with flex)

4, Flex - NZ usually has a powder hour rather than a powder day, it's elevation sensitive, and it's often pretty heavy. So I like a nice stiff skis to bust through cut up mank. I don't care about options. If it isn't stiff it won't be much use. I also consider rocker in conjunction with flex.

3, Cut - A straighter cut is my usual preference, but sometimes I want a smaller turning ski... I also consider rocker here.

I suppose my first 3 choices are all about equally important, and if forced to rank them, that's it. Really those are the reasons I buy a ski. Next are ranked in diminishing importance.

7, Price - If it's my go to ski or a real specialist ski that I've researched to death and I'll have it for years I will definitely buy it, but I will shop around, from all over the world, new or good condition second hand. So price is important. I definitely bargain hunt.

2, Finish - The ski must be well produced but I don't take to it with any measuring tools.

5, Weight - Too light and I'll probably pass, heavy is ok if the ski kills it. But really I find the finished weight is more a binding question than ski question. I can get by with 916 or 14's

8, Durability - I get pissed off if I've paid a lot of money and the materials/workmanship are off, but this will only effect my retention of, or re-buying the same ski.

6, Tech - I don't care how many microchips died developing the ski. I only care if it skis well. I rely on researching peoples experiences rather than hitting the tech sheet.

1, Graphics - I like simple design in normal life; in skiing's the same. Skulls bleeding all over the place doesn't spin my propeller. But I will never buy or not buy a ski because of it's appearance.

Summary = 3, 4, 3, - 7, 2, - 5, 8, 6, 1

Hope it helps, Jer

highangle

01-10-2010, 09:35 PM

how could it?

subjective information like this has to be statistically analyzed and then taken with a grain of salt by the consumer of the info

as such, this is just another tech talk circle jerk where people just express their more or less truthful opinions so they can look good to each other

a poll like this is worthless from a marketing perspective, even if clear trends became apparent and the p-factor was expressed

no businessman who got out of high school would make any money decisions based on this poll, or even a dozen like them

talk is cheap, designing, building, mass-marketing, and delivering skis isn't
this info is about as valuable as a bunch of bored jetsetters talking about what they like in a disco

Daywalker

01-10-2010, 11:16 PM

this info is about as valuable as a bunch of bored jetsetters talking about what they like in a disco

As a bored jetsetter, I would like hookers and blow in the hypothetical disco. Provide me that and I'll spend a bunch of money. The aforementioned disco will do better than the one that didn't have a survey to provide it with the best way to capture the attention of bored jetsetters.

What was your point again?

Phill

01-10-2010, 11:59 PM

8. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

Don't really care, I suppose I prefer the simple dps-esque designs but they aren't an influencing factor

7. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I like some of the new designs but as for supporting innovative companies, fuck that. I buy skis for the skis, I couldn't give less of a shit who makes them

6. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

In my experience weight doesn't always equate to damp/reactive. I prefer the ski to be as light as it can be while retaining all of the characteristics it was designed to have. But it is not a deciding factor in my purchases.

5. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

If I pay for a ski please don't send me a piece of shit. I prefer side walled skis but its not really a big deal. I don't expect to huck 20ft to rocks and not put a scratch on them but I also don't want to take chunks out if I run over a firm piece of ice.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

I prefer a stiffer ski but I think that the skis stiffness should be matched to the ski itself, I believe that every shape has an ideal flex pattern to be matted with it. The trick as far as I'm concerned as far as stiffness goes is getting a ski to be stiff while remaining lively (a la squads)

3. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

If I pay for a ski please don't send me a piece of shit.

2. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

Longer please!!!!!! I also like tip rocker andflat tails

1. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

Skis don't last forever, even the nicest pair of skis loses it's camber and stiffness, gets core shots, blows sidewalls etc. Skis also don't hold shit for value. I'm not paying more than $500

............

highangle

01-11-2010, 12:26 AM

What was your point again?

to point out that Pokemon or Opra is a better investment of ur time than masturbating in this thread

but carry on, i'm sure someone will read something more than their own input here and be all impressed with what you like in a ski, i really do

stuckathuntermtn

01-11-2010, 12:09 PM

maybe marshal is just curious.
maybe, as a manager of a shop, he wants to know his target customer better.
Clearly this is biased and unscientific, but we all know that.

highangle

01-11-2010, 01:56 PM

maybe marshal is just curious.
maybe, as a manager of a shop, he wants to know his target customer better.
Clearly this is biased and unscientific, but we all know that.

i think he's pretty damn capable of sizing up a customer by now

hence this thread.. :D

jrosendahl

01-11-2010, 03:26 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?
As long as it is not blood puking skulls I don't care. But I will not buy a ski with blood puking skulls on them.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?
If I noticed, it would have to be really bad and I would care. But it would have to be bad for me to notice.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.
I like large radius skis, 100 underfoot is perfect for colorado backcountry.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?
I like medium stiff to stiff skis

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?
I tour almost exclusively, weight matters. But I also like damp skis, it seems that some skis do the light/damp thing a bit better than others.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?
Real technology changes like shape, new core construction, and carbon are really cool. I like supporting companies that do that sort of think. Fake technology like marker piston, or any crap that is glued onto a ski just pisses me off.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?
I expect a pair of skis to last 2 seasons (~100 days) Super high prices can turn me off. I buy about 1 pair of skis per year for either myself or my wife

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?
I like harder bases and thick edges. I don't care if softer bases are faster. I don't care about die-cuts. I have had better luck with sidewalls than I have with caps.

Here is how I make my decision.

First off I look at
1 Shape
2 Length
3 Stiffness

Depending on the use of the ski, these things can be different. I generally run two rigs a touring rig, which is now (will likely remain) a 179 stiff Bro. I would consider going to a 183 but no longer. The second rig is a charging rig, longer, where I would consider a funshape, stiffer.

Then there are the no-deal questions - Graphics/Finishing/Durability.
If the graphics are both putrid AND violent (blood puking skulls) I would not buy it.
If the finishing is so bad I can tell, that make me worry about the general workmanship of the ski and it is excluded.
If I have personal experience with durability issues, I will exclude that brand as well

There are often several skis that I like up to this point so now we are into qualitative questions. Weight, china, technology and price - in that order.
Lighter is better, but there is a point where I am unwilling to pay a premium.
I would rather not but a ski made in China.
Nifty technology can get me excited - but really it should result in dampness, stiffness, or light weight (which I would have already taken into consideration
Cheaper is better, but for price sensitivity

> 1000 - unthinkable
750-1000 - pricey
650-750 - reasonably pricey
500-650 - great deal
300-500 - on sale - buy now, figure out why latter
<300 - why is it so cheep?

stash searcher

01-11-2010, 05:18 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I care... but simple is better. don't like blood skulls very much.. i like my bookmatched wooden topsheet scottybobs.. but also love my pontoons graphics.. but i love planes.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

i probably wouldn't check, as i would assume the company did so before sending them out..

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

i like big radius skis, as a general whole, and actually started ski shopping with greater than a 31m as a starting point for one pair, but rocker skis make me feel different than non rockers..

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

hmm. this one is difficult. flex is very important. but i like a mid-stiff, i like responsiveness, and torsional stability is very important. i don't like girl skis because they are wussy and weak. they feel like they are all too soft.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

mid-weight. i've had heavy skis that are alright, alpine carvers tend to do better a little heavier (ice combat-not that we get any here, really), but for tele, they'd better be light, since reactive is important for me in a tele turn.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

i like supporting new companies like on3p because they care about what they're doing.. i also tend to shy away from brand new tech until it's been reviewed for a year to work out some kinks (read: i will stay away from ntn for a while longer)

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

gotta say, price is important, due to me being cheap, but then again, this is negated by me buying three new pairs this year (one for the bf, one tele for me, and one alpine for me). i will try to get what i want for a cheaper price than full. i don't really like paying full price for things, but will if i get a little needy.. like how i bought the night trains this year full price, but should have just gotten another pair of on3ps for cheaper.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

sidewall has served me better, and i like the rigidity. though often the topsheets like to chip there, at least on all the k2's we have.. then again, the cap BD's I had all gouged like crazy. i like hard bases for sure, as we have thin snowpack year round and i don't like paying people to grind my bases. i can usually feel the die-cuts with my fingers, but i can't say as i've ever noticed them while skiing.

basically, flex and shape come first, price is an important factor, and topsheet will generally make it a yay or nay situation, though i don't really care for the on3p topsheets, i would rather get them regardless of topsheet. it's not that bad. my fave topsheets are the naked cartoon girl on my rossi scratch bc's.. though i think the cartoon factor makes them more family friendly.. i probably wouldn't get a pair of skis covered with blood, but if the right ski came around and it happened to have that, i would probably overlook it. forgive me my long topsheet rant, but i'm a girl.

adrenalated

01-11-2010, 10:20 PM

In order of importance:

1. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

Like others, I begin shopping for a ski by basic dimensions. I have different preferences for doing different things, but the shape is IMO what determines where (and if) a ski will fit in my quiver. Generally, 182-189cm length, 100-120mm underfoot, and a turn radius of 24-35m suits me well.

2. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

I generally prefer medium to medium-stiff skis. That said, it once again depends on the intended purpose of the ski. If I'm looking for a surfy backcountry ski, or a lively yet forgiving ski for bumps/trees on not fresh days, I might be looking for a softer flex than if I want a ski for comps and/or destroying chop.

3. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I want a ski to last. I'm done buying poorly manufactured skis. I do not like die-cuts (although it's not a deal breaker), and I really do not like cap skis. Cap construction almost completely eliminates a ski from consideration.

4. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

How much I care about weight kinda depends on the purpose. I'm more weight-conscious for a backcountry ski than for a resort ski, although I'm willing to haul a heavier ski around in return for better performance.

5. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

Once I've found a ski that meets all my desired criteria, I do shop around a bit for a deal. My salary doesn't allow me to buy anything I want... but I also won't buy a ski that doesn't fit my criteria above just because I can get it on proform or whatever.

6. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

Had a hard time ranking this one. I guess if it's not perfect, but pretty close, I don't care. But I would care a lot (and could put this catagory much higher) if things are off by a lot (particularly matched flex, rocker, camber, etc.)

7. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

If I find a ski to be horrendously ugly, I probably wouldn't buy it, but otherwise it doesn't matter much. An attractive ski is kinda a nice bonus though. I tend to be drawn the most to artistic natural scenes - this years EHPs, the Praxis spectrum and wooly mammoth graphics, ON3P's Billy Goat graphics, that sort of thing.

8. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I do like to support the smaller, more innovative companies, but I traditionally have not been a super early adopter of new technologies. I just got my first rockered ski last year, for example.

One thing that was not in your list of criteria is company of manufacture. This is a fairly important thing for me and probably comes in somewhere just ahead of price for me. Made in USA is preferred, made in the country in which the company is based in second (for example, Blizzard, Fischer, etc.), made in another country is third, and made in China is last. It has nothing to do with an assumption of quality as some people seem to think it does (I'm well aware that Americans can and do make shitty skis and Chinese can and do make great skis). I'm more concerned with a company supporting their local economy by hiring local workers.

uncle crud

01-12-2010, 09:39 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I like it simple. If the ski rips I don't care what it looks like, though. Just please no more 08/09 Gotamas. Thanks.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I like fat GS skis with some camber and no pussification (rocker, tip rise).

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

I like fat GS skis with some camber and no pussification (rocker, tip rise).

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

I like fat GS skis with some camber and no pussification and medium-stiff flex. I weigh only 150 lbs and I'm not trying to qualify for The Big Dick Swinging Contest Using Skis as Surrogates.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

I like heavy damp skis with decent rebound, and I like such skis for every condition except God's Own Dandruff, which I get to ski about 0.002% of the time.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

more efficient technology that achieves a feel identical to that of a laminate with titanal sheets and vert sidewalls, OK

technology just for the sake of "pushing the envelope" definitely NOT OK. this isn't the 1700s. it's not the time to be wasting materials just to "see what happens." billions of humans + finite resources + increasing waste & pollution = time for responsibility, not time for "pushing the envelope" trying to make Uber-Trick HyperSynthetic Pseudo-Sandwich Polymer Blends.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

not everyone has a shmoe-deal bro-hambleton-hookup. I shiver at the thought of paying $600 for a pair of skis.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

durability absolutely, fancy base designs NOPE. sidewall skis have always made me happier than cap skis.

Wes Mantooth

01-12-2010, 09:48 PM

I posted this over on NS

Wes Mantooth

01-12-2010, 09:58 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I honestly do care, I generally like a simpler softer look, but still with something going on, i.e. ON3P Billy Goat. Also always been a sucker for single color skis like DPS. A graphic will never deter me from buying a ski though

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I really really care, but I don't know enough to know what I care about...but when I fondle a ski I know whether or not I like the construction and finishing

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

Not too much sidecut but not a straight ski, depends on what I'm using it for, but I like around a ~23m radius. Always rockered, it's just more fun, and I like skis with tapered tips and tails but normal sidecut/camber underfoot

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

Medium/Stiff, HATE soft skis, but yeah there are so many options that it doesn't matter

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

For touring I need a light ski, for anything else I don't really care, but I like damp yet poppy skis (bamboo)

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I'm always up for trying new designs because I generally think they'll be even better than the last one. I like supporting smaller brands with innovative designs and the funky designs I've tried recently have all been awesome

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I will only drop 600-700 on a ski that I really know I want, otherwise I will try to buy it used or pre-sale for 400-500. 4-500 is a normal price/good deal for me, <300 is a steal depending on the ski

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I ski a lot of east coast trees so I need very very durable bases. It's fun to have a sick base graphic but if it takes away some durability then fuck that. All bases I've had with die cuts in them have ended up breaking around the die cut (coughk2cough)

Sirshredalot

01-12-2010, 10:03 PM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I really would prefer something mellow or classy, but I really don't give a shit. This is a low priority for me.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I want matched camber/rocker and flex, as well as flat bases. I do know how to check for this stuff. If it was off, I would notice and care. How much, well, I guess that depends on how off it is. This important to me.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

There are enough options on the market now, that I maintain my quiver of different sizes and shapes and profiles. If I'm shopping for a ski, I have a job in mind for it and I have a general shape in mind that will do that job.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

There are lots of different options out there, and I can select a ski that has the appropriate size and stiffness I need for the job I have in mind. This is an important factor for me when I buy a ski.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

I really prefer a damp, heavy ski. I do tour, but not a lot lately. As I go forward in turning over my quiver, I will likely differentiate more between my heavy-ass damp inbounds chargers and my lighter touring skis.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I openly admit that I like to try new technologies if they sound appealing to me. I was a Spatula owner. I owned 1st gen Kryptons, 1st gen Dukes, and 1st gen Factors. I even owned the old K2s with the blinking Piezo light in them back in the day. And I had an asymmetrical-swingarmed Mantis Pro Floater. I would like to think that my infatuation with new technology is purely performance-oriented but I'm also just kind of a gear slut. When my rational brain is making choices, I want performance, not just technology for technology's sake.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I am very price motivated. I buy one pair of skis a year and I expect them to last at least three or four years. I maintain several pairs of skis in the quiver. I probably won't pay full pop for a ski. I'll do it for boots, but boots are different. Because I rotate the quiver of skis, I can just stalk a good deal and ski what I have. Paying full pop for a ski isn't on my radar.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I prefer a durable ski. I dislike die-cuts and cap construction. The hardness of my bases and thickness of my edges are also a concern, but less so.
[/QUOTE]

verbier61

01-13-2010, 02:02 AM

1. graphics?

Not so much relevant, but I my life I've bought some 2-3rd hand skis just because they were beautiful to see. I use them for rock days.

2. ski finishing

I care a lot.

3. shaping?

This is the cornerstone

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

There are days for soft skis and days for stiff skis, so in a quiver you need both.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

as above, with a penchant for light skis.

6. technology?

relevant

7. price?

with the exception of boutiques skis such as DPS, birdos, etc, most of the major skis in europe - sooner or later - are on sale with huge discounts. Just wait, there is no rush to buy

8. durability?

relevant, but not crucial

highangle

01-13-2010, 02:30 AM

i wonder how long it will take Marshal to tabulate the results of this?

seems like a poll would made things simpler for him to pass on this vital info to the skimakers of the world...

a couple hundred responses will make tabulating and normalizing this little thread perfect for a rainy week's project for a room full of people with nothing to do

marshalolson

01-13-2010, 07:55 AM

at least 40% of the people that open this thread are capable of reading

JimmyCarter

01-13-2010, 08:17 AM

So if I'd rank them:

#3 Shape
#4 Flex - options would be nice (a la Bro)
#7 Price - Not the main driver, but obviously the same tech, same general specs + cheaper price = sold.
#6 Technology - definitely a late adopter
#5 Weight - more noticeable as I get older (and more out of shape) Race skis kill my legs by mid day. I'm liking the bamboo cores as a tradeoff.
#8 Durability - Want 2-3 seasons of regular/heavy use at least
#2 Ski finish - As long as it's not looking like some of the 333s that came out, I probably wouldn't notice until it was too late, definitely don't check out of the box.
#1 Graphics - Do i care what they look like? Yes. Does it influence my decision outside of "that thing is too fucking ugly to buy"? Not really.

DoWork

01-13-2010, 08:33 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

couldn't care less. Topsheets are like tits, they look nice but don't actually do anything but catch peoples' eye.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

yes. 333 skis get sent home. Always get your money's worth and don't settle. Skis with dfferent flexes and camber will ski differently and that s unacceptable.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

possibly the most important thing. The shape dictates its' purpose and therefore you decide what circumstances you're looking to revel in and subsequently match your wants to the corresponding shape most conducive to your intentions.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

HUDGE! This is #2 consideration for me. Flex will dictate in many ways how the shape interacts with the snow surface so after shape, flex is the #2 most important thing.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

Also hudge. In many ways this does with #4, as a stiffer and more damp ski will usually be heavier. I see core construction as a component of both flex and weight so you can't consider one without the other.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

Well yeah. If I wanted straight skis, why would I buy brand new? Technology when applied correctly makes the ski experience so much more enjoyable for matched contitions and equipmet.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I am poor. Price is very important. If two skis are very similar and one's half the price, it's a no brainer.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

Very important. Weak skis get eaten alive by my home mountain. Hard, tough bases and edges/topsheets go a long way towards making me feel good about having them for two or three seasons. I've seen skis fall apart, delam and core shot on the first run so yes, quality of construction, be it cap or sidewall construction is very important.

In order, I'd say

durability
shape
flex
weight
finishing
price
tech
graphics

JeffreyJim

01-13-2010, 08:46 AM

My $.02

I buy my skis the way I look at girls at a bar. Okay, bad analogy but what I'm saying is a few things grab my attention at first look then everything else is just a "deal breaker". Much like a chick wearing awesome clothes isn't going to turn her from a 3 into a 10 but a hot chick being terribly dressed can turn her from a 10 into a 7...or 6...or 5 (you get it)...basically there are plenty of attributes that aren't going to say "buy me" but if they are fucked are certainly going to say "don't buy me". (see the difference?)

Shaping is the first thing that grabs my attention when I'm looking for a certain ski (pow, charger, resort etc) followed closely by flex. If either of these isn't what I'm looking for, nothing else matters...and there really isn't a right or wrong here, just a matter of what I'm looking for. I will say this however, I think flex and shaping go together and are not as independent as many people think...that's not to say some preference or range isn't appreciated (alla DPS) but they do play off one and other.

I'm not really too into the weight of my ski (unless it's a touring only ski) but if it is as heavy as an old Pow Plus it's a deal breaker. (In fact I went with DPS in hybrid just because I wanted a bit more weight behind my ski for crud/semi tracked/deflection issues etc...but I'm weird)

Durability and construction are two things that wont make me buy a ski but certainly can be, once again, a deal breaker.

Graphics are important...but not that important. Less is more and as long as it does not encompass skulls and flames I'll probably be okay with it.

Finish quality really doesn't concern me as I have no problems doing this myself if need be...but it does say something about the company usually.

Price I'm not going to comment on this one. You already know me. (Marshal)

Technology This is the wildcard. If we are talking about some crazy new shape then yes, it can certainly grab my attention and make me say "I must have that". Construction wise I'll also be intrigued but it all depends just how material the technological gain really is.

Finally, I feel in the future I'll go get a pair of skis the way a surfer has a board made. There will be a dozen or so high end builders around the country (such as wagner) that have a very firm understanding of many different shapes and how everything plays together. You will go to a person like this, talk with them, and through watching you ski, understanding what you are looking for etc etc will build a custom ski just for you using best technology shaping construction etc etc

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

it would be interesting to see people rank these items in terms of importance, and then write a sentance or two explaining each line.

if someone has a NS account or TTips account, it might also be cool to post this over there and post a link so we can see what everyone is thinking...

awesome. i guess this is your chance to speak your mind on design. i am going to send the results around to a bunch of various contacts....

Wes Mantooth

01-13-2010, 08:53 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

I honestly do care, I generally like a simpler softer look, but still with something going on, i.e. ON3P Billy Goat. Also always been a sucker for single color skis like DPS. A graphic will never deter me from buying a ski though

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

I really really care, but I don't know enough to know what I care about...but when I fondle a ski I know whether or not I like the construction and finishing

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

Not too much sidecut but not a straight ski, depends on what I'm using it for, but I like around a ~23m radius. Always rockered, it's just more fun, and I like skis with tapered tips and tails but normal sidecut/camber underfoot

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

Medium/Stiff, HATE soft skis, but yeah there are so many options that it doesn't matter

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

For touring I need a light ski, for anything else I don't really care, but I like damp yet poppy skis (bamboo)

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I'm always up for trying new designs because I generally think they'll be even better than the last one. I like supporting smaller brands with innovative designs and the funky designs I've tried recently have all been awesome

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I will only drop 600-700 on a ski that I really know I want, otherwise I will try to buy it used or pre-sale for 400-500. 4-500 is a normal price/good deal for me, <300 is a steal depending on the ski

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

I ski a lot of east coast trees so I need very very durable bases. It's fun to have a sick base graphic but if it takes away some durability then fuck that. All bases I've had with die cuts in them have ended up breaking around the die cut (coughk2cough)

Shaping
Flex
Durability
Technology
Price
Weight
Finishing
Graphics

Weight goes near the top if these are touring skis

El Chupacabra

01-13-2010, 10:38 AM

Selectively edited:

I buy my skis the way I look at girls at a bar:

Shaping is the first thing that grabs my attention ... followed closely by flex.

Durability and construction

Finish quality

Price

Technology This is the wildcard. If we are talking about some crazy new shape then yes, it can certainly grab my attention and make me say "I must have that".

I'm picturing you sizing up some barbie-doll-plastic-surgery type and mentally calculating how much technology went into her chest, and how much she's gonna cost you in the long run.

uncle crud

01-13-2010, 10:47 AM

at least 40% of the people that open this thread are capable of reading

it's hard to rank things for me, marshal. price can be foremost in my mind or hardly an issue... depends on my income and free cash when I need a new pair of skis. some days I'm sure the ski's graphics don't matter to me and then I see a pair of 08/09 Gotamas and feel like I'm about to get a migraine and swear I'll never ski that headache-inducing graphic on my feet.

when it boils down to essence, I want most skis to feel like variations of the 2005 Head Monster 88 that is my everyday ski.

JeffreyJim

01-13-2010, 10:51 AM

^^^^ Hehe.

I like all sorts of skis for different reasons.

At the end of the day, like Jay-Z says "I love girls, girls, girls, girls..."

This analogy *could* go somewhere but I'll let it go.

TyWebb

01-13-2010, 10:58 AM

1. graphics? do you prefer pucking blood skulls ala hellbent, hand paint ala 4frnt, crazy neon colors ala new ks stuff, techy graphic designs ala lhasa pows, or simple designs ala dps? do you care?

Simple is good for me. Like the woodgrain topsheets or clear coat.

2. ski finishing - ie awesome structure, ceramic edge, flat/railed? matched camber/rocker & flex? do you know how to actually check for this stuff? if it was off, would you notice or care?

Yes, I care about that stuff...but not enough for it to outweigh how the ski works for me. Regardless of construction, my test comes solely down to how it performs on my feet. For better or worse.

3. shaping? prefered sidecut/shape? rocker lines? etc.

Have come to appreciate a rocker ski, and will likely buy them for all over the mountain going forward. Sidecut - less the better...love the 128-118-124 type of ski

4. flex and flex options? stiff, medium or soft? does it matter if there are countless options?

Flex matters, but I don't care how many options a company offers - if they don't have the flex I want, somebody else will. I have come to appreciate a med-soft flexing ski, as opposed to the stiff-ass board I felt obligated to ride in past years.

5. weight? do you like a super heavy ski (damp)? super light ski (reactive), do you tour? do you care?

In the resort a like a heavier, more damp ski and touring, prefer a lighter, more reactive ski.

6. technology? do you care about pushing the design envelope? do you specifically like to support companies that are doing something cool/new/different?

I don't care about the new tech. shape, weight, flex, design....tech will encompass those if applied correctly.

7. price? how price motivated are you? will you only buy on mad closeout? will you pay full pop for something truly lust-worthy? how many skis do you buy a year? how long do you expect them to last?

I buy at least one new pair every year, but am hard pressed to pay retail for anything. Will buy a pair every three years or so for $600-$900, but would traditionally look for sales.

8. durability? do you care about the hardness of your bases? do you like or not like die-cuts underfoot? sidewall or cap - care?

yes, do care about durability and do NOT like die cuts. Simple is better - looks better with base fixes in place.

highangle

01-13-2010, 01:46 PM

at least 40% of the people that open this thread are capable of reading

that's optimistic

bennettc14

01-13-2010, 02:17 PM

Shaping
Flex
Technology
Durability
Price
Weight
Finishing
Graphics

jm2e

01-13-2010, 10:46 PM

1.Graphics: I care a little, but not that much. My wife basically demoed the new S3 because they have the same mermaid from last years S6. She paid full price.
2. Finishing: Honestly, I don't understand this one. Some skis look solid and some look cheap....
3. Shaping: It all depends on how they ski, but for my next pair, I'm really only interested in a JJ/S7/Lasah shape ski. I've got my LPs for what I now see as 'old school'
4. Flex: It totally depends on how they ski, but you've already bought them before you really know. There's no universal flex rating so it gets too confusing always asking a tech 'how do they compare in the LP-Obsethed spectrum of stiffness?'
5. Weight: I haven't gotten into touring yet, so I just love the solid feel of my LPs. My wife is little, so she loves that Rossis tend to be pretty light.
6. technology: Overlap with question 3. The problem with companies who are cutting edge is that they're just R&D for the big boys. See JJ vs S7.
7. price: I'm cheap and have only bought used or previous season models for the last several years. That said, I laid down $550 for a new pair of S3s for my wife because Rossi seemed to box themselves into pricepointing relative to 3 being so much lower than 7 as a number, despite that they are a totally rad ski compared with 4-6 (god that's a ghey sentence!) and were at a good price point for "I'm willing to ski expensive it now rather than cheap next year". I think skis cost too much. I also think it's totally ghey that most shops have "sale" prices on them the minute they hit the shelf. If Line and CoreUpt can hit low price points, there's no good reason the other bastards can't as well. I call bullshit that high end skis cost more because they need to recoup development money. The high end ski sells the low end models across the board. A ski is materials plus a percentage of the operating costs of the whole company. If they sell 10x as many entry level and rental skis, then all their skis should be priced alongside those skis.
8. durability: Reputation goes a lot further than whatever marketing or some shop tech says. People still wax on about the durability of Volkls don't they? And BD is rapidly positioning itself in the 'cheap chinese crap' department of skiing. Everybody else.....it's all the same shit, but it feels safer to buy from a big company despite the anecdotes you hear on the forums.
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