View Full Version : Knee Strength
I know I've got knee problems, but I don't have the cash to get to a physical therapist. I have some sort of chronic hyperextension of my knees and when I was under my parents insurance I went a few times back in high school. They had me do a bunch of exercises to strengthen the muscles surrounding my knee. The big problem for me seems to be muscular imbalance.
So, since there are a plethora of people on this board with knee injuries, any advice, good websites, workout routines?
Dexter Rutecki
10-27-2003, 09:54 PM
No insurance? With an ortho's recommendation they usually cover a fair amount of PT.
Straight leg lifts and against resistance while standing, maybe leg curls, but the best for me is skating.
altagirl
10-28-2003, 08:15 AM
You said you have some sort of muscle imbalance - that would definitely affect which sort of exercises you do. Since you said your problem is with hyperextenstion, I'd guess that means your quads are too strong in relation to the strength of your hamstrings? So you should do lots of hamstring exercises.
jayfrizzo
10-28-2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
but the best for me is skating.
http://www.tosolini.com/images/wa/rollerblade.jpg
truth
10-28-2003, 08:25 AM
Here ya go. (http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=290)
Benny Profane
10-28-2003, 08:47 AM
Bicycling. Lots of cycling.
altagirl
10-28-2003, 08:51 AM
If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help.
I don't remember what the ratio is supposed to be, but I'm sure you can find it somewhere online. Go to the gym, figure out what your quad to hamstring strength ratio is and lift weights until you balance it out.
britney
10-28-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by altagirl
If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help.
I don't remember what the ratio is supposed to be, but I'm sure you can find it somewhere online. Go to the gym, figure out what your quad to hamstring strength ratio is and lift weights until you balance it out.
quad to hamstring should be 3:2 -- for example, if youre lifting 90 on a quad extension, you should do 60 on the hamstring curl. (90/3 = 30, 30x2 = 60).
yes i like math and exercise. :p
-brit
Strider
10-28-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by altagirl
If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help.
I don't remember what the ratio is supposed to be...
Altagirl is right. Don't do a ton of biking and expect to see a balnce of your leg muscle. Here is my advice:
Exercising opposing muscle groups to obtain muscle balance does not mean developing equal strength in the agonist and antagonist muscles. Certain muscle groups are physiologically and biomechanically stronger or more powerful than their opposing muscle groups. The ratio you should aim for is 3:2 (e.g., extend 120lbs and curl 80lbs). Take it slow and make sure you are performing your exercises slowly (2sec to contract, 2 sec hold, and 4sec lowering of the weight) and biomechanically correct.
Good luck
Strider
10-28-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by britney
quad to hamstring should be 3:2 -- for example, if youre lifting 90 on a quad extension, you should do 60 on the hamstring curl. (90/3 = 30, 30x2 = 60).
Damn, Britney beat me to it.
britney
10-28-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Strider
Damn, Britney beat me to it.
strider you must be new -- welcome! LOOOOOOve your name! 12/17/03
Originally posted by britney
yes i like math... :p
-brit
Hey, Baby...wanna see my linear function? :p
Originally posted by altagirl
[B]If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help. /B]
Actually, no. If you know how to ride and what kind of riding to do, you can work the hammys pretty good.
Strider
10-28-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Viva
Actually, no. If you know how to ride and what kind of riding to do, you can work the hammys pretty good.
Yes, what you say is true but we have to look at the practicality of the situation. Only a small percent of the cycling communinty actually knows how to pull on the up stroke (not sure if this is the correct techincal jargon?). Most cyclist insist on pounding it out by applying as much pressure as possible to the down stroke. This is all of course my humble opinion.
Knee Info (http://www.kneepaininfo.com/)
altagirl
10-28-2003, 10:53 AM
I didn't say you wouldn't use hamstrings at all, but cycling is not a good hamstring isolation exercise no matter how you're doing it.
altagirl
10-28-2003, 10:54 AM
Agreed though, that if you're clipped in and making round pedal strokes you're getting a better all over leg workout than if you're just mashing pedals.
Arty50
10-28-2003, 11:05 AM
Shit, I'm a bit out of balance.
My last set of quads is around 260. My last set of ham curls is only 140 or so. I've had weak hamstrings for a while though and they are getting better. Plus the good news is 260 is the entire stack on the quad extension machine. Lot's of room left on the ham curl stack. :D
Dexter Rutecki
10-28-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by jayfrizzo
http://www.tosolini.com/images/wa/rollerblade.jpg
I thought those were OUR pictures.
gonzo
10-28-2003, 12:05 PM
1. Assumptions have been made that the imbalance is hamstring/quad - quite probable that the imbalance is inner/outer quad, which would create knee probs as well. Had surgery myself for a derivation of this 6 months ago...
2. Hamstring curls and leg extensions will never be recommended for strengthening bad knees. They load incredible amounts of pressure on the knee and on the cartilage under the kneecap (which is probably what it fucked anyways) and the workout obtained can be achieved as well or better in other ways.
Straight leg raises - no knee stress - good quad workout. Slap some weights on your ankles and turn your foot out and in to mix it up.
Balance squats - put one foot on a chair behind you and get the other out in front - imagine your ankle is in a ski boot and don't flex it forward - drop your hips and pivot down at the knee - repeat in a controlled manner, keeping your knee over your foot. Burns wicked good. Add a hop in the air or weight to make it more x-treme.
Tuck squat - start in a seated position - fold at the waist and gently rock up into a tuck position - arms forward and everything - again imagine that your feet are in boots and don't flex forward at the ankle. Keep your knee over your foot and drop your ass. Hold for as long as you can, rock from side to side to shift the burn, make airplane noises for effect.
altagirl
10-28-2003, 12:11 PM
All my physical therapists have recommended hamstring curls after surgery. No more weighted leg extensions - I've heard that pretty much universally - just never heard of problems with hamstring curls.
altagirl
10-28-2003, 12:13 PM
and yes, this is all a shot in the dark since he hasn't specified what type of imbalance he has....
Strider
10-28-2003, 02:23 PM
The assumption we are working off of is that the young man has a chronic case of hyperextension not a patella tracking problem.
powpig
10-28-2003, 04:57 PM
Nothing better than running sprints. Have had both my ACLs done, do a ton of Mt Biking but can't really jog, too much of an up and down pounding of the knees. But sprinting is more of an extension than up & down motion. Try to find an ultimate frisbee game or just go run some sprints on grass. Windsprints like MLB players do. Run a sprint, walk back, repeat.
gonzo
10-28-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by altagirl
All my physical therapists have recommended hamstring curls after surgery. No more weighted leg extensions - I've heard that pretty much universally - just never heard of problems with hamstring curls.
i was told the exact opposite (howard head p.t. & steadman)
strider - good point...
Ya, this IS all a big shot in the dark without assessing your legs. I agree with gonzo as far as the possibility that you are having a quad imbalance in relation to lateral and medial vastus ratio but if your hams are weak you could also be having problems. If I were you I would spring for a single evaluation and recommendation session with a good PT that specializes in sports/orthopedic conditions. It's hard to give you much good advise without a thorough assessment.
Good Luck.
ak_powder_monkey
10-28-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by jayfrizzo
http://www.tosolini.com/images/wa/rollerblade.jpg
Where are your ski poles?
If your gonna skate do it right skate ski!
My knees look something like this:
http://www.carletonsportsmed.com/Knee_hyperextension/knee_hyperextension.jpg
I'll post a pic of my knees when I get a chance.
They always have looked like that. I have in the past been to a PT for knee pain. I haven't had problems since HS though. Now all of the sudden when walking around on campus (usually at the end of the day) I have minor pain in my right knee.
I should probably just spring for the doc and save myself alot of greif down the road.
descender
10-29-2003, 12:18 PM
You should go to an OS.
Hyperextension pulls on the ACL. It may be fine however. You may just be built that way. Everyone is diff.
Hyperextension is one of the motions that modern functional knee braces can protect against. These are the expensive ones, not the ones in Rite-Aid. I have a InovationSports Cti brace and it does protect against hyperextension, but not twisting.
Bike for general easy going maintenance. To build power do sprints, stairs, leg press, ham curls, and calf raises at the gym.
Strider
10-29-2003, 07:27 PM
Dude you got on hell of a problem with your knee, you should see someone about that:D .
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