191 Lhasa Production-Paging Splat

[swissbro]

I have all three of the Lhasas. The 186s and 196s are glass. The 186s are the weakness of the three when it comes to railing turns; I have to stand on them hard and stay forward and not get lazy. For me the 196s are railing machines. Just tip them over and stand on them for the ride. Skied last June-July at Hood and they never hiccuped no matter how fast you push them. Have 8 days on the 191s. Two days on Michigan hardpack and 6 days at Revelstoke where the conditions varied from firm to 16" of powder. Found the 191s railed almost as well as the 196s. Still not quite adapted to the lighter feel of them compared to my 196s. Dumping speed on hard snow on steep terrain by drifting is the one place where I haven't found the groove on the 191, but that's not what I have them for. My AK 183s and the first generation 192s do that like a charm.

[TeleThor]

Those 183s look nice. On both sides. Looking forward to seeing photos after finishing.

[splat]

Those 183s look nice. On both sides. Looking forward to seeing photos after finishing.


Look here for the finishing steps and final product on the 183s, TeleThor:

The new carbon/glass 183 Bro - Teton Gravity Research Forums

[TeleThor]

Just came across the thread. Very nice.

[khyber.pass]

(back to stoke)

191s ARE NOW 2 DAYs AWAY !!!!!

(review forthcoming)

EDIT: ARRIVED. HOT DAMN.

[splat]

Don't let your self get thrown by the small vertical wax streaks, khyber.
They're getting a linear structure for cold snow.

[deeppo]

Update-
So the snow is firm and hard. Im really digging the 191's for the most part. Great edge hold, very quick(I swear they zipline bumps with ease). The one aspect of the ski that Im having troubles getting used to is groomer performance(yes I know its a fat powder ski but I like to go fast on groomers and Telluride has some of the best) I just cant find the natural turn radius of the ski. Im going to have the skis tuned so that might make a difference(edges where almost too sharp when I got the skiis for me). Cant wait to ski them in some softer snow
deeppo

[Maker]

i felt the same way the first few days, definitely takes getting used to....you just got to pressure the tips, lay them over, and wait....I end up only making 2 turns on a run where you would normally make 5...just big long lazy turns (with a radius of ~40m..the diameter of the circle is almost the length of a football field so you can imagine how big that turn has too look like!!).

[Horu]

Hard snow performance on the lhasas can be a little tricky until you get the hang of it. Once you do, it's GS/Super G time at warp speed unless it's total ice (some can probably still kill it, but that's when I get out other skis). When I feel like I'm having trouble on hard snow with the 196s, I focus on keeping my weight in the middle of my foot and initiating the turn with my knees and big toes. IMO the minimal camber means you have to pay more attention to getting your edge into the snow than on a ski with more camber that will bite more naturally.

five second blog: we had spring conditions last weekend, and man do I love these skis in the corn. The softer it gets, the harder these kill it.

[MickeysEars]

What base and edge angle are these skis as stock out of interest? I personally really like 1 base and 3 side and would re-tune them to this.

[splat]

They come at 1/2, MickeysEars.
We're finishing up the last batch of orders, plus some extras this week, shipping every day.

[Tye 1on]

So, getting antsy waiting for the shipping email...know it should hit soon, but i'm greedy and want 'em sooner...

Today....no shipping notice...fack...

At the door....191's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whaaaaahoooooooooooo they look FKNA Made in the USA Awesome!!! Going in for Duke implantation manana, woot!!!

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73142&stc=1&d=1265248040

[MickeysEars]

They come at 1/2, MickeysEars.
We're finishing up the last batch of orders, plus some extras this week, shipping every day.

Cool.... just in time for the snow tonight.. get em mounted up !

[khyber.pass]

Don't let your self get thrown by the small vertical wax streaks, khyber.
They're getting a linear structure for cold snow.

Well, since you bring it up here (I wasn't going to say anything...), general consensus from the shop is that there was a particle stuck in yr stonegrinder, producing a series of micro-gouges all the way down the base. We were picking out small bits of grit with our fingernails. :rolleyes:

But it's alright. A little work and I think I can restructure that ski. We usually put on a crosshatch for conditions around here anyway (the "W").

Can't wait to get'em on the snow .. !

[bennettc14]

I don't understand why people are having problems with Lhasas on groomers. I skied 186s last year on the EC as my only ski, bulletproof days and everything else. I found the learning curve extremely small. Prob depends on if your a tailgunner or not. Don't rail as good as say an XXL but better than any rockered ski out there I've tried. Looking forward to trying the longer lengths in the near future.

[splat]

Well, since you bring it up here (I wasn't going to say anything...), general consensus from the shop is that there was a particle stuck in yr stonegrinder, producing a series of micro-gouges all the way down the base. We were picking out small bits of grit with our fingernails. :rolleyes:

But it's alright. A little work and I think I can restructure that ski. We usually put on a crosshatch for conditions around here anyway (the "W").

Can't wait to get'em on the snow .. !

The shop was doing so good.....;)
I'm sure it's just a matter of me overworking them.
Ones that got done today looked money.
Have fun, doot.

[otto parts]

Got mine out this morning, definitely easier to link (big sweeping) turns than the 186, so I guess the tail width was the right change. Super light and playful, no down side so far over my 186s. Don't feel much bigger and still super easy to swing around.

Just a bit of fresh over some crust and hardpack at Kirkwood today, so not a lot to add until they see some better snow. So far, schweeeet.

[sierraskier]

I don't understand why people are having problems with Lhasas on groomers. I skied 186s last year on the EC as my only ski, bulletproof days and everything else. I found the learning curve extremely small. Prob depends on if your a tailgunner or not. Don't rail as good as say an XXL but better than any rockered ski out there I've tried. Looking forward to trying the longer lengths in the near future.

I agree. I ski the 186 on groomers without any issue. Granted I don't take out the Lhasa's unless there is some fresh, but on groomers I do ski them more weight-centered than a tradition sidecut ski (still forward though). Seems like the turn radius can be a little shorter *sometimes* if it is firmer and/or you lay them over far enough b/c the contact point is further back in the shovel, but you can moderate that by adjusting your weight forward/back changing contact point forward/back on the shovel and hence turn radius. Or, if you're lazy you can just point em and let em run b/c they're stable as hell. It still amazes me how the more you stand on em the better they lock in. I gotta admit it's pretty damn fun to see if I can wash the ski out or find the speed limit on groomers. And I haven't done either yet.

The only gripe I have is sometimes I'm wanted just a tad more length on the hugest/heaviest days. One question for Splat though - do the 191 have less tip rocker than the 186's or is the rocker profile the same?

[splat]

Just a bit less.

[Tye 1on]

I can't believe how they are lighter and no softer than the 188 and 186's. And the base prep has come a long way too. Graphics are fkna perfect.

[splat]

Finishing up the last of the 191 orders, shipping them tomorrow and Monday.
Bobby686, bring mine back and trade me for your pair!

[LARRY01]

Splat,
How many pairs of skis are you doing a year right now?? I get asked that question all the time on the lifts. My guess is around 600? Got to keep all your reps informed!
Thanks

[deeppo]

I don't understand why people are having problems with Lhasas on groomers. I skied 186s last year on the EC as my only ski, bulletproof days and everything else. I found the learning curve extremely small. Prob depends on if your a tailgunner or not. Don't rail as good as say an XXL but better than any rockered ski out there I've tried. Looking forward to trying the longer lengths in the near future.

No Im not a tail gunner. I think a lot of it is what type of ski you are used to skiing. Certainly I think the original tune on the ski skis had a lot to do with it too. Took them in last night to get tuned by my buddy and they felt a lot better on the groomed today. Enough about groomers.

Certainly the more I ski the skis the better I like them. Truly amazed at the versatility of the ski. The main advantage over the obsethed so far is there ability to turn on a dime. Now I just need to pick up another pair to mount with solly binders.

[splat]

Splat,
How many pairs of skis are you doing a year right now?? I get asked that question all the time on the lifts. My guess is around 600? Got to keep all your reps informed!
Thanks

We're small potatoes, Larry.
300-400 pair a year.
Like, almost, custom.

sorry, didn't mean to answer in your post

[vailcat]

got them tonight. Look great. Mounting as we speak. May get a spin on them tomorrow but for sure by saturday. Full report to spew thereafter from my finger tips.

Noticed that there is a much flatter tail on the 191 than last years 196. This should help out for the zippercrust and stuff huh?

Last spring in Haines we had a wind day and a lot of the snow was fukt. THe lhasa's were tougher to ski in those conditions with the bigger tail kicked up.

New dimensions should be sweet.

[vailcat]

Is the difference just the flatter tail or as I understood from before there is 2mm less of tail width between the 191 and other lhasa's? I thought it was just the extra 2mm of width in tail for increased sidecut.

I very well could have missed something but either way the new design is lookin $$$$$$

[jfost]

We're small potatoes, Larry.
300-400 pair a year. ...

I would have thought between 222 and 333!?!

[Shepherd Wong]

Is the difference just the flatter tail or as I understood from before there is 2mm less of tail width between the 191 and other lhasa's? I thought it was just the extra 2mm of width in tail for increased sidecut.

I very well could have missed something but either way the new design is lookin $$$$$$
Vailcat, Extra 2mm in the tail.

[splat]

Where's that splat dude? I wanna have a word with him!


You Mofo! I just got my first real day in on the 191s today after getting them back from Bobby686 and those fukkers killed it! This is from a guy who has been down for almost two years with knee issues and has atrophy galore in every muscle in his body. Holy crap, did I have fun. And the most pow I saw was beat down chop after they closed the sibo hike to Mainline when the light went flat. I can say now with all certainty (not that I didn't feel this in my bones when designing it) that the 191 is the ultimate iteration of the Lhasa line. Flat out awesome! Carving all shapes, skittering through the bumps and just running them through the paces. I moved the mount forward one click on the sollie demos for a bit more bite on the grooms and ZING!, those babies locked right into it. I am very stoked and have not been able to post my impressions until now, so I had to take everyone else's word on it, but holy shit, these things were like boner city hard ons on my feet today. I am still wearing the smile.

edit: The 191 felt like a cross between the 192 and a 196 Lhasa, but at times, it was so light, it felt like a 183. Def my new go to ski.

[vanisle]

Dont ya just fuckin love it when everything comes together:biggrin:

[otto parts]

Like I told that Gisplatto mofo, feels all the length when you rail it, feels short when you turn it.

It is the shizzle-o-rama. You nailed homestyle (told ya so, told ya so, I TOLD YOU SO)

(sorry, drinkin some vino tonight)

[splat]

I give must credit where credit is due.
Thank you, otto parts, for kicking my ass to make it.

[Like a Boss]

How far up did this put the mount position? +1 from recommended?


Where's that splat dude? I wanna have a word with him!


You Mofo! I just got my first real day in on the 191s today after getting them back from Bobby686 and those fukkers killed it! This is from a guy who has been down for almost two years with knee issues and has atrophy galore in every muscle in his body. Holy crap, did I have fun. And the most pow I saw was beat down chop after they closed the sibo hike to Mainline when the light went flat. I can say now with all certainty (not that I didn't feel this in my bones when designing it) that the 191 is the ultimate iteration of the Lhasa line. Flat out awesome! Carving all shapes, skittering through the bumps and just running them through the paces. I moved the mount forward one click on the sollie demos for a bit more bite on the grooms and ZING!, those babies locked right into it. I am very stoked and have not been able to post my impressions until now, so I had to take everyone else's word on it, but holy shit, these things were like boner city hard ons on my feet today. I am still wearing the smile.

edit: The 191 felt like a cross between the 192 and a 196 Lhasa, but at times, it was so light, it felt like a 183. Def my new go to ski.

[splat]

3-4 millimeters. I know the tyrolia demo clicks 3 mm at at time...
It wasn't much at all. But the dif is noticeable on hardpack.
I know guys who will mount them at -2 for pow.
edit:
wait....I think my -2 is someone elses +2. fuck......
I know guys who will move them back toward the tail 2 cm for the pow.

[whyturn]

So I ordered a pair of 191 (BanditB3185) and am curious as to shipping estimates.
thanks and see you in the trees

[splat]

Today or Monday.

[greatjones]

Splat,
Can I get in on a pair of 191s? I don't see them available on your web site.

Thanks!

[splat]

Only if you want to wait. Just sold out. Again.

[greatjones]

Only if you want to wait. Just sold out. Again.

Certainly willing to wait for these skis. Let me know how/when you want payment.

[splat]

You can Paypal $950 to sales@pmgearusa.com

We just can't keep any around for long. Just cleaned out the inventory Friday and we'll be pressing them again in 10-12 days, then another 10-12 days on finishing. We have a full pressing schedule on every ski we make for the next 2-3 months, but had to make this a relaxed week off to catch up on ordering supplies, finishing skis, paperwork and getting some turns in. We haven't slowed down a bit since August.

[smmokan]

^^^ Splat, out of curiousity, how many pairs of skis do you make in each run?

[deeppo]

Certainly willing to wait for these skis. Let me know how/when you want payment.

These skis are worth waiting for. I have not touched my obsethed in weeks
deeppo

[splat]

^^^ Splat, out of curiousity, how many pairs of skis do you make in each run?

We do 30-50 pair at time. At an average of 4-5 pair a day. But there's only two and a half of us doing the work, so we stay busy. We press, the we have to stop pressing to do material prep and finishing. And there's some other stuff that has to be done. We outsource that stuff to the hookers.

[snej]

Got to ski them today at Wolf Creek for the first time. Me 5´7 130lbs. At first I had some problems figuring the ski out. But as the day went on and the snow kept falling, I was falling to, in love with the ski that is....they are so nimble for a ski this size. Treeskiing with them was superfun. And yes they do rail on semi hardpack, but the turns sure are big. Snow is still falling and I can´t wait to get on them tomorrow again.

Thanks Splat for making a really good ski.

[splat]

Just pressure them into shorter radii and they'll blow you away some more.
They have depth that you'll discover the more you ski them.

[bern43]

Got mine out for the first time last weekend at Mt. Hood Meadows. Conditions were all over the place with hard pack, crud, heavy wet untracked over refrozen crud, windblown, and corn depending on where you were. Really amazing ski in all of these conditions. I was surprised at how nimble they are. No problems making short turns, long turns, etc. There was also no learning curve on the groomers, which I was a little worried about after reading some comments on here. As long as your making longer turns they rail. Just lean them over and they come around just fine. I'll post a more detailed review after I get to ski them in Utah next week. Hopefully I'll actually get to ski them in some pow.

[Shepherd Wong]

You can sort of pop them into tighter carves if the groomer is relatively soft. If you weight the ski pretty hard before you get into a deep edge angle it forces the ski to carve tighter.
If you jump straight into a high edge angle before you weight the ski then it doesn't want to carve as tight.

[Atrain505]

If you want them to carve easier and perform better on hard stuff mount them a bit forward of the line. If you want them to rule pow mount them a bit back of the line. If you want them overall mount them on the line.

[Tye 1on]

First day on 'em, firm day. Just like all have said, short radius turns skidding a bit, better with some forward pressure. Turned the speed up in to some GS turns, they railed like a fkn freight train. Can't wait to get 'em out on some soft! FKNA!!!!:D

[ludwigk]

Since my 186's broke, I've now ordered a pair of these...

What's the general consensus on the mounting point? I want them to be 'all rounders'. I mounted my Lhasa 186s on the line and was happy.

What about bindings? I've got a set of slightly used Marker Jesters, but I'm thinking of going for the new Rossi FKS /Look Pivot. Never used them but they seem to have a real cult following. However, I've got no complaints with the Jesters so maybe I should just stick with them.

[Ender]

Mounting point consensus in general is on the line. The line if fkna money for just about everything. If its a dedicated pow board -1 or even -2, if you want more hardpack performance +1. But seriously the line = the money. You will be happy with it. I am. 205, 6'1 btw.

Jesters, Dukes or FKS are all nice fits. I have a new orange FKS 18 on mine. Stupid light for an all metal binding setup. I am absolutely in love with it. I'm sold on the whole elasticity concept of the turntable heel. Its my first FKS. Love.

[splat]

Since my 186's broke, I've now ordered a pair of these...

What's the general consensus on the mounting point? I want them to be 'all rounders'. I mounted my Lhasa 186s on the line and was happy.

What about bindings? I've got a set of slightly used Marker Jesters, but I'm thinking of going for the new Rossi FKS /Look Pivot. Never used them but they seem to have a real cult following. However, I've got no complaints with the Jesters so maybe I should just stick with them.

I'm moving the line up 5 mm for all around. Hang with that for total all-around happiness, ludwigk.

[vanisle]

I'm moving the line up 5 mm for all around. Hang with that for total all-around happiness, ludwigk.

Good move,the consensus with the 191 Demos here is just ahead of the current line is:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[greatjones]

Hey Splat. Just checking in on what the timing is looking like for the current batch of 191s (for orders placed last month).

Thanks!

[splat]

Got 20 pair in early stages of finishing right now that should ship this next week.

[greatjones]

yeehaaa


789

[ludwigk]

Hey Splat... mine are still sitting in German customs waiting to be cleared. Should get them next week. Do you remember if they will already have the midpoint line moved forward 5mm or should get my tech guy to re-measure? What's the correct process to measure?

[splat]

106.5 cm back from center of tip, tape pulled straight, no bends.

[khyber.pass]

I mounted +1cm of the line and it is money for pow. Only tip dive I had was in moderate steepness 60cm+ blower yesterday where I had to lean back a little. Otherwise, no problem at all. Moving up the line +5mm sounds like a good idea to me as the ski floats well at a less trad mount.

Review coming on the 191 once I finish off the next few days, which will round out a solid 10 or so days on 'em . General impression: very impressed.

[splat]

Is your plus one forward of or behind the line, khyber?

[khyber.pass]

+1cm forward of the line.. can measure if you need it?

[splat]

That'd be 106.

[splat]

Now that we're all caught up and a little bit ahead, we'll be putting all Lhasas and other skis on sale soon.
New prices will be posted on the PM Gear website in the next couple days.
We're clearing the inventory as we prepare to move the factory.

[The Kids Are Alright]

where are you moving to?

[splat]

We don't know yet. Our building is getting pwnerized in an eminent domain thang.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^^^ really?

after the property is seized (allright after the government pays "fair market value" for it) what is going to be used for?

[emr]

Has the recent batch of 191s shipped? Do we get tracking #s?

[splat]

All but the very last order that I know of. I'm traveling for two more days without email or access to shipping numbers. Sorry....

[otto parts]

Splat, happen to know if my 191s went?

[splat]

Yes, they did, otto. Well, they're pressed anyways. I'll pick them up from stonegrinding when I get home. Shipping after they're all spit shined.

[otto parts]

no hurry dude, rather have them perfecto than fast.

[emr]

191s showed up, sexy as hell. Was blown away again by their beauty which included the new bases (same ones as the 183s). No snow time yet, just fondling time. There leaning against the wall right next to my 186s that are mounted with FT12s (the 191s are getting FKS planted on them). Add 183 to the line up before next year and I should be able to take candy from a baby whenever the fuck I want.

FKNA................

[splat]

The Lhasa sale thread is here:

Sale On Lhasas & A Lhasa/195 Combo Deal - Teton Gravity Research Forums


Sale on 164s and 195s has been revived since the discovery of a few more pair:

195 and 164 Bros - $269 New - Teton Gravity Research Forums


I was pretty stoked how quickly your skis got to you, emr.
I dropped them off at FedEx at 5:30 Pacific and you had them early am in New Hampshire. They hauled ass!

[emr]

The Lhasa sale thread is here:

Sale On Lhasas & A Lhasa/195 Combo Deal - Teton Gravity Research Forums (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188350)


Sale on 164s and 195s has been revived since the discovery of a few more pair:

195 and 164 Bros - $269 New - Teton Gravity Research Forums (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189410)


I was pretty stoked how quickly your skis got to you, emr.
I dropped them off at FedEx at 5:30 Pacific and you had them early am in New Hampshire. They hauled ass!

I'm super psyched, got the skis mounted today, skiing them tomorrow... didn't think I would be skiing these this quickly... pumped.

[emr]

I have 3 days on these bad boys, full review to come in the next couple of weeks. I am heading out to UT in a day so I'll be able to put these through the full spectrum of conditions... So far on ice, hardpack/groomers, corn, slush, spring bumps these have me smiling from ear to ear. One word... versatile.... It's true, you can make any turn shape you can think of... make them dance or let them run.

splat, are the flexes similar on the 186 and the 191? My 186 seems stiffer (hand flexing and skiing) with the tail and mid-body being stiffer and the tip slightly softer, while my 191s have the slightly softer tip, but the mid body and tail seem to have a more rounded flex than the 186 (slightly softer throughout the ski). I don't know if this is just in my mind or what (or if this even makes sense)... i know every ski is not going to be identical, just wondering. Disclaimer: I am driving the 186s with dynafits and skookums while the 191s have fks and ft boots. I know that will change how the ski skis, but the 191 hand flex is just more rounded like I said above.

Not complaining, love the ski so far...

[splat]

I have 3 days on these bad boys, full review to come in the next couple of weeks. I am heading out to UT in a day so I'll be able to put these through the full spectrum of conditions... So far on ice, hardpack/groomers, corn, slush, spring bumps these have me smiling from ear to ear. One word... versatile.... It's true, you can make any turn shape you can think of... make them dance or let them run.

splat, are the flexes similar on the 186 and the 191? My 186 seems stiffer (hand flexing and skiing) with the tail and mid-body being stiffer and the tip slightly softer, while my 191s have the slightly softer tip, but the mid body and tail seem to have a more rounded flex than the 186 (slightly softer throughout the ski). I don't know if this is just in my mind or what (or if this even makes sense)... i know every ski is not going to be identical, just wondering. Disclaimer: I am driving the 186s with dynafits and skookums while the 191s have fks and ft boots. I know that will change how the ski skis, but the 191 hand flex is just more rounded like I said above.

Not complaining, love the ski so far...




The 191s are like you describe. Very astute observation. Some of the hardcore bro riders prefer the 186 over the 191, but I think it's cause they're skiing more pow, whereas, the 191 has a strength on the grooms the 186 doesn't, for most folks. I've been thinking about trimming a millimeter off the 191 tail to enhance tail slarve, but maintain a releasable grip with that edge.

[SkiboyJ]

Has anybody has any issues with topsheet separation at the tails? There is ~3mm gap at the very tail of one of my 191's between the metal base piece and the topsheet. Doesn't appear to be getting any worse, but I've only skiied them once or twice since I noticed it.

[nvr2deep]

Has anybody has any issues with topsheet separation at the tails? There is ~3mm gap at the very tail of one of my 191's between the metal base piece and the topsheet. Doesn't appear to be getting any worse, but I've only skiied them once or twice since I noticed it.

You might want to epoxy that before it gets any worse.

[Tye 1on]

Has anybody has any issues with topsheet separation at the tails? There is ~3mm gap at the very tail of one of my 191's between the metal base piece and the topsheet. Doesn't appear to be getting any worse, but I've only skiied them once or twice since I noticed it.

Yep, both mine came with that feature, they were blems that some damn hippy wanted a flattened tail on for skinning. Shop slapped some epoxy in, clamped 'em up, they're just fine. I try not to slam the tails into the snow on my way to the bar tho...;)

[splat]

SkiboyJ - some of the metal in the tail wanted to straighten back out due to the metal's memory, so we have since prebent the metal to cure that. Like Tye says, a lil epoxy and clamp action at your local shop will cure it at a rate of about $10. Or you can send them back and I'll do it for you and they'll take drops onto cement for the rest of their lives.

[SkiboyJ]

SkiboyJ - some of the metal in the tail wanted to straighten back out due to the metal's memory, so we have since prebent the metal to cure that. Like Tye says, a lil epoxy and clamp action at your local shop will cure it at a rate of about $10. Or you can send them back and I'll do it for you and they'll take drops onto cement for the rest of their lives.

That's kinda what it seemed like... the metal just didn't want to be bent anymore.

I can epoxy and clamp them myself. Unfortunately, I think they are done for the year anyway...EC is nearly toast...unless I win a trip out west or something.

[Yanos]

The Supers and Lhasas showed up this weekend. Lhasas are mounted and ready to attack. Man, what a sexy ski.

The 195s keep giving me the evil eye. Now I just need to find a worth binder for them.

[wendigo]

The 191s are like you describe. Very astute observation. Some of the hardcore bro riders prefer the 186 over the 191, but I think it's cause they're skiing more pow, whereas, the 191 has a strength on the grooms the 186 doesn't, for most folks. I've been thinking about trimming a millimeter off the 191 tail to enhance tail slarve, but maintain a releasable grip with that edge.


i know you added a couple mm to the 191 tail, but I wouldn't mind them missing. Cause I'm a pow ho, I can appreciate a touch more tail slarve. skis great either way.

http://www.benwilliamsphotography.com/photos/828882175_KbxNP-L.jpg


Edit: Please make these in a shorter version ~178 for the littler people. The soon to be mrs. wendigo has been coveting them, but the 186 is a bit much.

[splat]

I plan to work on that this summer, Ben.
I get a lot of requests from the people who need them shorter.

[khyber.pass]

Has anybody has any issues with topsheet separation at the tails? There is ~3mm gap at the very tail of one of my 191's between the metal base piece and the topsheet. Doesn't appear to be getting any worse, but I've only skiied them once or twice since I noticed it.

Ya, I need to epoxy mine too. Been putting the 191 through the paces. Amazing ski. ;p

Still thinking of getting 186s though. Hmm.

[Milkshakes]

I stopped by the factory today to pick up some 191's. Pat was very generous with his time, showed me the factory and how he does what he does-- it was fantastic. Super friendly and very into his craft (you all already know that though). Also talked martial arts and Shaolin Kung-fu-- good stuff. Extremely impressed with the build quality and bomberness of the ski. Just got to get them tuned and mounted. Hopefully, I can get a day on them before the season is out. I don't want to stare at them all summer without trying them at least once. Can't wait!

[splat]

Milkshakes - make sure you tell the shop to keep the belt and the stone off the metal tip and tail, otherwise it gets too hot and breaks down the epoxy bond.

Good havin' ya come by, mang!

[Puder]

Question to Pat:
I am happy owner to a pair of second hand 191's. Gorgeous planks and prolly the only ones in Sweden.. Plugged the current Duke holes made at line 107 cm from tip to a center marking for the previous owners 24.5 boot.. Planning to move to 106 cm for my 25.5 boot center with a new pair of Dukes. Need approval from the guy behind the ski engineering... Not too forward mounting at 106? Thanks in advance.

[vanisle]

Question to Pat:
I am happy owner to a pair of second hand 191's. Gorgeous planks and prolly the only ones in Sweden.. Plugged the current Duke holes made at line 107 cm from tip to a center marking for the previous owners 24.5 boot.. Planning to move to 106 cm for my 25.5 boot center with a new pair of Dukes. Need approval from the guy behind the ski engineering... Not too forward mounting at 106? Thanks in advance.
Did you try the previous Duke mount before plugging the holes?Wouldnt hurt to reuse them and give that a chance before making more holes.
That previous mount with your slightly larger boot would only move your boot center back half a cm to 107.5,Although i like mine a little forward at 106 those skis have a fair bit of leeway and you might be pretty happy there.
Shame to put another set of holes in them if you dont have to.

[Puder]

Thanks for the input, but I´ve already plugged the holes.. Previous owners suggestion was to go forward anyway. An alternative to put S16´s at 106,5 but I really would like the option to be able to skin sometimes.. I go for 106 with the Dukes, then go find some snow up north!

[splat]

Question to Pat:
I am happy owner to a pair of second hand 191's. Gorgeous planks and prolly the only ones in Sweden.. Plugged the current Duke holes made at line 107 cm from tip to a center marking for the previous owners 24.5 boot.. Planning to move to 106 cm for my 25.5 boot center with a new pair of Dukes. Need approval from the guy behind the ski engineering... Not too forward mounting at 106? Thanks in advance.

Suggested mount is 106.5, so 106 won't hurt you a bit. Those might have been marked at 107 if they were earlier in the season. 106 will give you a damn good bite on anything hard. I don't see moving forward as much of a ski-weakening move as moving back and leaving holes in front of the toepiece.

[Puder]

Deal. Thanks for respons!

[emr]

So I wanted to follow up with a full review on these puppies. I have skied these in almost every condition and feel I have a good understanding of the skis qualities and weaknesses. I'm coming off of a recent injury. I broke my pelvis, couple ribs and thumb in February so I wasn't skiing as fast or as reckless as usual... the word caution popped into my head which can fuck with you.

My stats:
32yr old, been skiing 17ish years
5'11" 160lbs w/o gear
Boots used where full tilt bb pros with 8 and 6 tongues (mostly 8)
Binders where fks 18 mounted for a 310bsl on the line which is 106.5 for this batch with the din set at 25.

So I am at a cross roads at this point on what I am going to do with these skis, I dig the skis, but their strength is almost their weakness for me... which is versatility. My current line up of skis are 195 praxis pows, 186 moment night trains, 191 lhasa pows, 186 lhasa pows (dynafits), 183 goats, 180 explosives and 180 kingswoods. I have bought and sold way to many skis to list in the past couple years, but the 191 lhasa pows where purchased because I sold some 191 wrens. I am constantly retooling my line up which drives my wife crazy, but any who... Only skis that are locked in for next year are the 186 lhasa pows and the 180 explosives

Powder: I got these in day after powder, but I was still able to find plenty of untouched lines. The storm produced around a foot+ depending on elevation. The skis where a dream in fresh powder. The tail doesn't sink as well as the 186s (I would say this is more due to the added length then the wider tail... at least for me). I could drive the skis and never felt like I was going to sink the tip. Not a pivot/slash ride like the night trains or the praxis pows, but you can still throw these sideways with easy (lack of rockered tail and not as center mounted). The light weight package of the ski with its dimensions let you pop out of turns and you could feel the "carbon effect".

Groomers: As I stated in a post above, the ski locks up fine on groomers (hell they handled Cannon's ice groomers... and if you know the EC and Cannon that should tell you something... not race skis but very doable). These were fun running them around on groomers. The ski has a livelyness to it that lets you pop out of turns on groomers or pow. There is a slight tip flap at higher speeds that I thought was more due to harder conditions of the EC, but I experience this in UT and on spring days.

Trees/Bumps: I think the mount location is money. These skis are very easy to move in tight situations. The ski responses quickly and lively and the ski feels like nothing on your feet, so trees are fun as hell. Being from the EC, I love tree skiing, and these skis did not disappoint. As for bumps, they skied fine. I lack overall skill so you won't see me ripping zipper lines on any skis. I think the flex, mount location, livelyness and width make for an ideal tree ski.

Cut up/mank: The ski shines is most of these conditions to a point. The shape of the nose works great (almost to good, because I'm always looking at the tips slice/explode little mounds of snow). The area that the ski starts to loose some of its ability is when the snow is heavier. The shape works to a point and then the flex, lightness, and responsiveness starts to work against you. This is were I wish this ski had the flex of the 186 to muscle through more situations. As stated in my other post, which splat confirmed, that this ski has a more rounded flex than the 186.

As for the construction the skis are beautiful. Only complaint is that one of the tails has developed a slight delam (very shallow and an inch across), but should be a simple fix.

So I do dig these, just not sure if I'm keeping them or letting my gear whore side get the best of me. Skis I would like to own next year include 4frnt renegade (loved the EHP, still kicking myself for selling), DPS 112rp, Moment Belafonte and 183 bros.

So in conclusion the ski rips in most conditions with a light weight package, versatile dimensions and medium to medium stiff flex pattern. Not hard to ski and not a pussy floppy noodle if you stand on it and let it run.

[splat]

Thanks, emr. Good review. I plan to stiffen the core more like the 186 for next year and knock those 2mm out of the tail as well, so it's going to get a lot better. I had to hear from enough people who had the same feelings as you to justify the change. I want that baby to slaaaaay.

[sierraskier]

So I wanted to follow up with a full review on these puppies. I have skied these in almost every condition and feel I have a good understanding of the skis qualities and weaknesses. I'm coming off of a recent injury. I broke my pelvis, couple ribs and thumb in February so I wasn't skiing as fast or as reckless as usual... the word caution popped into my head which can fuck with you.

My stats:
32yr old, been skiing 17ish years
5'11" 160lbs w/o gear
Boots used where full tilt bb pros with 8 and 6 tongues (mostly 8)
Binders where fks 18 mounted for a 310bsl on the line which is 106.5 for this batch with the din set at 25.

So I am at a cross roads at this point on what I am going to do with these skis, I dig the skis, but their strength is almost their weakness for me... which is versatility. My current line up of skis are 195 praxis pows, 186 moment night trains, 191 lhasa pows, 186 lhasa pows (dynafits), 183 goats, 180 explosives and 180 kingswoods. I have bought and sold way to many skis to list in the past couple years, but the 191 lhasa pows where purchased because I sold some 191 wrens. I am constantly retooling my line up which drives my wife crazy, but any who... Only skis that are locked in for next year are the 186 lhasa pows and the 180 explosives

Powder: I got these in day after powder, but I was still able to find plenty of untouched lines. The storm produced around a foot+ depending on elevation. The skis where a dream in fresh powder. The tail doesn't sink as well as the 186s (I would say this is more due to the added length then the wider tail... at least for me). I could drive the skis and never felt like I was going to sink the tip. Not a pivot/slash ride like the night trains or the praxis pows, but you can still throw these sideways with easy (lack of rockered tail and not as center mounted). The light weight package of the ski with its dimensions let you pop out of turns and you could feel the "carbon effect".

Groomers: As I stated in a post above, the ski locks up fine on groomers (hell they handled Cannon's ice groomers... and if you know the EC and Cannon that should tell you something... not race skis but very doable). These were fun running them around on groomers. The ski has a livelyness to it that lets you pop out of turns on groomers or pow. There is a slight tip flap at higher speeds that I thought was more due to harder conditions of the EC, but I experience this in UT and on spring days.

Trees/Bumps: I think the mount location is money. These skis are very easy to move in tight situations. The ski responses quickly and lively and the ski feels like nothing on your feet, so trees are fun as hell. Being from the EC, I love tree skiing, and these skis did not disappoint. As for bumps, they skied fine. I lack overall skill so you won't see me ripping zipper lines on any skis. I think the flex, mount location, livelyness and width make for an ideal tree ski.

Cut up/mank: The ski shines is most of these conditions to a point. The shape of the nose works great (almost to good, because I'm always looking at the tips slice/explode little mounds of snow). The area that the ski starts to loose some of its ability is when the snow is heavier. The shape works to a point and then the flex, lightness, and responsiveness starts to work against you. This is were I wish this ski had the flex of the 186 to muscle through more situations. As stated in my other post, which splat confirmed, that this ski has a more rounded flex than the 186.

As for the construction the skis are beautiful. Only complaint is that one of the tails has developed a slight delam (very shallow and an inch across), but should be a simple fix.

So I do dig these, just not sure if I'm keeping them or letting my gear whore side get the best of me. Skis I would like to own next year include 4frnt renegade (loved the EHP, still kicking myself for selling), DPS 112rp, Moment Belafonte and 183 bros.

So in conclusion the ski rips in most conditions with a light weight package, versatile dimensions and medium to medium stiff flex pattern. Not hard to ski and not a pussy floppy noodle if you stand on it and let it run.

Great review. I too am a gear whore a suffer the same personal issues. I have put a few more days on these now and go back and forth on this a lot. I ski out west and compared to the 186 (glass), I really like the more rounded/softer flex pattern and the light weight of the 191. This ski is so easy to throw around it is ridiculous. Easier than my 186. I feel like it is a much more "versatile" ski in that it hooks up better on groomers and has more effective edge with the added length, slight changes in rocker profile (flatter) and added tail width. This ski will rail groomers if you stand on it. What it really boils down to is what you want this ski to be. For me, being out west and being a total snow-snob bitch, the 191 is pretty much my everyday ski now. I just don't go out on days when the snow is too hard for me to ski the 191. This will probably sound ridiculous but personally I could see the need for a more playful, powder friendly 191 that has a little more tip/tail rocker, exact same flex pattern, and possibly a tad less sidecut. I realize that similar ski might already exist in the Wrenegade but I think the 191 weight and flex pattern are money for powder as is. A slightly stiffer 191 would definitely make the ski more versatile in harder/variable conditions, but consequently sacrifice some of the soft snow feel. At any rate, I love the 191 and it is my new everyday ski, I just think it would be fucking cool to have PM Gear-built powder tool that sits somewhere between the Splatula and the 191.

[Zeppelinskier]

^^^
sounds like you need to pick up the 188's or 183's. I love mine.

[dingjong]

I just think it would be fucking cool to have PM Gear-built powder tool that sits somewhere between the Splatula and the 191.

Quoted for truth! And I promise I'll be among the first (along with a few other guys I know) to drop cash on these!

[Zeppelinskier]

Quoted for truth! And I promise I'll be among the first (along with a few other guys I know) to drop cash on these!

the 192 big bro?

[dingjong]

Nope. the 192s are just kinda fatter XXL's. And we are talkin about something like a BROwatt!:cool:

[theetruscan]

Thanks, emr. Good review. I plan to stiffen the core more like the 186 for next year and knock those 2mm out of the tail as well, so it's going to get a lot better. I had to hear from enough people who had the same feelings as you to justify the change. I want that baby to slaaaaay.

I haven't even skied my new skis yet, and they're obsolete!

It's fun to see how a ski evolves. Just a few months back I was reading that the 186 and 196 would get the 2mm from the 191 added to them, and now the opposite is true.

[sierraskier]

Nope. the 192s are just kinda fatter XXL's. And we are talkin about something like a BROwatt!:cool:

Yup...and with a flex pattern/weight of the existing 191 it would be so money. Seems like it would have just the right amount of edge-hold yet would de-camber/flex enough to give you the perfect amount smearability and playfulness.

[Mountain Junkie]

Hey emr, how do you like the 183s with dynafits? I'm thinking about moving my current pair of lhasas over to a touring rig, and getting a pair of the 191s mounted alpine.

[Atrain505]

Pat has too many projects but I have told him I would absolutely love that ski.
Keep the lhasa sidecut, add 10 mm of width all around, more tip rocker, nice and stiff. That would be a super fun pow ski.

But first he needs to make a 176 lhasa for the shorter people and update the 179 fat to have a lhasa style tip and tip rocker for the shorter people who prefer traditional sidecut. Little c wants a 176 lhasa so he can get into backflips again.

[splat]

I'm gonna do some Tee shirts that say "Give Me Lhasa Pow or Give Me Head".

[Sinecure]

How about "Getting Lhasa Pow is better than getting Head"?

[Sinecure]

Oh, and a 176 Lhasa would be an awesome ski for small maggots/maggettes.

[MTT]

Oh, and a 176 Lhasa would be an awesome ski for small maggots/maggettes.


At that length you think the Dem should stay the same or reduce proportional

Like 176 and 5MM narrower everywhere ?

[sierraskier]

just wanted to say I skied the 191 all day today and it was FUCKING MONEY. absolutely perfect ski for todays 8-12" of pow with intermittant blue ice death cookies. totally confidence-inspiring. there are not many skis that can handle that type of variability with such good results.

[Sinecure]

At that length you think the Dem should stay the same or reduce proportional

Like 176 and 5MM narrower everywhere ?

It would work fine if narrower, although I'd like to see a tad more sidecut rather than overall reduction. Same dimensions on a shorter ski = longer turn radius if I'm thinking about it correctly. Skinny up the waist just a tad and leave the tip/tail the same would be cool.

[1thenaton1]

Splat - i just picked up a pair of 191s from gear swap (here: FT/FS: 191 Lhasa Pow - Teton Gravity Research Forums ). They just arrived - couple of questions.
They have the 196 topsheet. Pre-production run?
They have a ton of camber (~7mm per ski?) and very little rocker

Schindlerpiste - Dingjong noted he picked these up from you; maybe you can weigh in on these.

thanks,

Naton

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu26/nbsiegal/April%20Fool/lhasa.jpg

[splat]

One of the first 191s made.

[dingjong]

Nate, what are the perfectly zero-cambered skis with a longish rocker to the left of the Lhasa's?

[1thenaton1]

DJ - Czars, but they have a strap around the waist.

Splat - to the best of your knowledge, do these have the new carbon layup?

[splat]

yes, they do.

[Zeppelinskier]

my lhasas are looking pissed that there not on powpow, fuck that long board I just bought!

[otto parts]

Naton, you should be good, rocker looks pretty standard for
the 191.

[1thenaton1]

Sweet. Then these get mounted tonight and the Salomon boycott is ON. Thanks all for the info

[dingjong]

Nate, as you can see you can trust me and what I say.

I'm not here to scam other mags.

BTW, I suppose these are really gonna be unbelievably sweet, like the XXL's but better (livelier/floatier). Although I have yet to try the Dynastars.

[nickwm21]

Bump!

Mounting my 191s post Thanksgiving.

I found deep in this thread that 106.5 from the tip is suggested. Is that correct? My skis have a red line and I just want to pull a tape and double check.

I have also heard that people are mounting a little forward of the line? I will most likely mount on the line but if someone can convince me that going forward will be better, I will.

I am SUPER EXCITED to ride these guys. I am glad i haven't had them mounted through "Tahoe's 2010 November Madness". It would have been too temping to take them out in the pow with no base.

If it makes any difference, they are one offs. Oldschool topsheets, zero chamber, and according to Pat they have a 192 core.

[Ender]

On the line is money on the 191. +1 is great too if you looking for a wee bit more manuverability. I have 10 days on a 191 on the line. Zero complaints, kills pow, carves great, nice and manuverable in tress. perfecto to me.

[StormDay]

.

If it makes any difference, they are one offs. Oldschool topsheets, zero chamber, and according to Pat they have a 192 core.

That sounds pretty nice.

[splat]

106.5 is the line, nick. 106 and they get turny, but the consensus from Canadia to Cali is 106.5.
Lemme know how those 191s treat you. I found a couple other pair like yours lying around I might put up for sale.

[geologist]

mounted mine on the line and it seems perfect so far. kills it in the pow and the edge hold is great on groomed + traverses. great landing platform too. only ski ive tried that i feel more stable landing on is my M1's

[2nd mate]

I cant believe its going to be probably 4 months before I get on my new 191's. I did have a daydream.....or was it a real dream???, about skiing them last night. they were outstanding.

[Barnboards]

I cant believe its going to be probably 4 months before I get on my new 191's. I did have a daydream.....or was it a real dream???, about skiing them last night. they were outstanding.

Funny you said that, I believe I had real dreams for my 191's, not sure. I think they are working on them.

[splat]

Funny you said that, I believe I had real dreams for my 191's, not sure. I think they are working on them.


BarnBoards, we'd be pressing them right now, but it appears the frenginerd (french engineering intern) sent the basecutter bad cad for the bases and forgot to subtract the edge widths, so we now have some 191 bases that are 4mm wider than the regular 191s. (ottoparts, this sounds like your pair ;)) The batch was supposed to be 191s cut for 140-112-120 skis. Add 4mm to those dims at each point and that's what we have, which won't be a bad ski at all, but we would have to wait for tip and tail base metal to get cut to fit this new dim 191 base and also make a new mold to press them, which we will, but none too soon. So we'll get the 191 140-112-120 bases, minus the edge widths, properly cut on Tuesday or Wednesday to press them through next weekend. We're finishing and shipping 186s and pressing 179 Lhasas in the meantime. Sorry for the delay.

[Barnboards]

I knew you were working on them. No problem here.

[JFO]

106.5 cm back from center of tip, tape pulled straight, no bends.

Just about to mount a pair of these I picked up from iski123. Originally from this thread:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189731

Probably a stupid question - is that 106.5 cm back horizontally, then drop vertically down to the ski? Or pull the tape straight from the center of the tip to the topsheet?

Thanks,

JFO.

[otto parts]

Bumping the thread in honor of the pair I just got from Splat. Splatster was kind enough
to build me a nice, stiff pair with the wider tail, which I like for all around use. Flex is just what I asked for, stiff but still nice and progressive to the tip.

Still uber light at 4.4 lbs or so.

Quality is the best I have seen from the PM Gear team, absolutely flawless top and bottom. They also came a few weeks after I paid for them, unlike (fill in your fave indie brand here).

[splat]

Just about to mount a pair of these I picked up from iski123. Originally from this thread:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189731

Probably a stupid question - is that 106.5 cm back horizontally, then drop vertically down to the ski? Or pull the tape straight from the center of the tip to the topsheet?

Thanks,

JFO.

That was the initial bcl but we moved it a cm forward to 105.5 for max performance. That measurement is tape latch hung over the center of the tip, pulled straight back and down to the topsheet like the hypotenuse of a triangle. No bends, quick and easy.

[khyber.pass]

I also want to second the increased QC of this year's batch. Got a pair of the new carbon 186s, and the sidewall, base and topsheet are all definitely a step up. Came properly ground & waxed! Nice work.

As for the 191 vs 186 debate, it's still up for grabs. I mounted my old 191s at +1 which I loved, but then had a closet full of 190+ skis. Now I have 186s on the line, but am thinking of moving forward +1 to get that playfulness back. They're a little scrubby right now. But I also haven't had the edges tuned yet, so I'll reserve a proper comparison until I get the ski riding in its sweet spot.

As for delays, all the indies have their on & off days for delivery. There are so many variables (like the 116mm 191 above!). I had superfast turnaround on the 186s, but they were also in production, so I got lucky :)

[esagen]

As for delays, all the indies have their on & off days for delivery. There are so many variables (like the 116mm 191 above!). I had superfast turnaround on the 186s, but they were also in production, so I got lucky :)

Big up to Splat for timely deliveries. Contacted him some weeks before Christmas for a 186 Lhasa order inquiry for an upcoming trip to US (I'm living in scandiland). Under a week later I found my brand new lhasas waiting for me in a washington dc hotel room :biggrin:

On the other side; pre-ordered and paid for renegades in May - ETA is in a week or so... :rolleyes:

[splat]

Thanks, Espen. Glad that worked out.

I'm really dying for some 120 tail 191 reviews. Few people could compare the 122 tail to the 120 (I'll get to that myself soon) but just a review on how they ski would give me some awesome feedback...

[Shepherd Wong]

As for the 191 vs 186 debate, it's still up for grabs. I mounted my old 191s at +1 which I loved, but then had a closet full of 190+ skis. Now I have 186s on the line, but am thinking of moving forward +1 to get that playfulness back. They're a little scrubby right now. But I also haven't had the edges tuned yet, so I'll reserve a proper comparison until I get the ski riding in its sweet spot.



Kyber I think you'll like the 186s forward. I have a pair I think at +2(not at home now) and love them there. I'm a more active type of skier so I do prefer a more forward mount but they are my go to skis all the time at +2, would never consider going farther back. I'm 6'2" 205 and they do have a speed limit, but that's okay. If I'm ever topping them out I should probably slow down.

[swissbro]

I got three pair of new skis this year and all of them impeccable. Don't know if Splat had some extra time on his hands in early December, but my Lhasa 186s, 183 and 187 Fats all came with the tips and tails detuned just a touch to give them a smooth carve when driving them hard on firm snow. They all have that Euro race room look when it comes to construction. No wavy edges and the sidewall finish is first rate.

After six days at Alta, Snowbird, and Solitude in just about every kind of conditions from heavy powder to rock hard groomers, I'm pleased with all of them; however, the 187 was my first pick most days.

[Jim S]

Picked up my 191 Lhasa tonight from the man.

[Jim S]

They made screaming through the trees really fun because they get much more maneuverable in the soft. You wanna hit a big fresh bowl at mach? 196 will make you think you're in your bedroom slippers.

+1 on the 196 glass.

My 191 carbons will be ready tomorrow for me.

:biggrin:

[AlpenChronicHabitual]

Skied my 191's (09/10 first production run?) on a New Years Day tour for the first time.
Skied a mix of powder, some wind scrapped hard pack and a little bit of breakable crust.
Loved them. Very playful, handled the mix of conditions with ease.
I'm about 185, and enjoy everything from meadow skipping to technical/commited lines.
Mine are mounted right on the line with Dynaduke plates and Dynafit's.

[Jim S]

I took my carbon 191 Lhasa out today on Mt Rose on moderately shitty firm conditions, a few pow stashes but really just granular firm frozen crap. I have an older Lhasa 196 with fiberglass which I love.

Me: 6'2", 190 lbs, charge hard, small airs by TGR standards

Initial impressions in today's near-tooth rattling conditions:

-lively ski
-holds a solid edge on frozen off piste and frozen groomers
-only 5 cm shorter than my 196 but it turns with far less effort in the trees and steep bumps
-seemed fairly smooth in the short jaunts through chalky off piste that I found today

That's all for now. So far I'm happy; these would be the best skis in my quiver for a firm day and I'm sure they'll be fine in softer more user friendly conditions. :)

[splat]

Ain't no better conditions to have to put them through the paces, Jim.
But that was just foreplay....