Gmail: Public service announcement

[bossass]

....I've already claimed skipow@...suckas!!!!

No really, bagtagely brought this up but I think it deserves it's own thread. I don't know how much I'll use skipow after reading this (http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/) . The part about the FBI and word searches is sort of freaky as is the never ever actually deleted thing.

[AltaPowderDaze]

That's messed up.:eek: Thanks for the heads up boss.

[freshie247]

Yeah ,I read this as well.I converse with people thst use Gmail,but I declined to sign up for it after reading that article.Hotmail is expanding the size of the users acount soon anyway,so I'm inclined to wait for that.

[bad_roo]

If the intelligence agencies can trawl g-mail for keywords you can be damn sure they're already at it for Hotmail. What's the difference?

[Summit]

Lies! It's all propoganda from all the other free email providers who don't want to budget the extra space! Evil conspiracy I tell you what! :D :eek:

[AH]

It doesn't matter where you get your mail (http://www.echelonwatch.org/)

[schuss]

privacy is an illusion in this day and age.

[SheRa]

Well, I've got five more invites today. I guess they're going through an expansion phase.

[watersnowdirt]

I have to say, I was thinking about this whole Gmail thing on my mt bike ride last night (ya gotta do something to keep your mind occupied while climbing up beastly hills).

First of all, this whole invitation thing.... clearly, the invites will never run out. SheRa gave all hers out, then got more. Basically what Google is doing (and feel free to give a better interpretation of this) is getting YOU to do their marketing, for free, with the sense that there's some eliteness to it. Bullshit - the invites will just keep coming, threads on other bboards will keep popping up, and they just sit back and smile doing nothing while their advertisers are popping woodies.

Second of all... this idea of more storage being a huge selling point. Yahoo just upgraded to 2 gigs of storage for their premium accounts (which, since I run my business using this account, I happily pay), which is a mere $20 a year. And - NO ADS. Which I love. Their spam filter works beautifully, and overall, I have zero complaints about Yahoo. So why, after 7 years with the same email, would I switch?

Just my thoughts. I think Google is laughing all the way to the bank.

[non grata]

I think Google is laughing all the way to the bank.

so are these people:
http://search.ebay.com/gmail_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8

[SheRa]

Originally posted by watersnowdirt
First of all, this whole invitation thing.... clearly, the invites will never run out. SheRa gave all hers out, then got more. Basically what Google is doing (and feel free to give a better interpretation of this) is getting YOU to do their marketing, for free, with the sense that there's some eliteness to it.

Could be, could be. Makes sense.

[Cornholio]

Originally posted by watersnowdirt
...lots of smart stuff....

Just my thoughts. I think Google is laughing all the way to the bank.

The invites are also a good way to trickle out the beta release to avoid a major bug in the first "real" release. At the same time, they've created this invite buzz, which-- you're right-- creates a sense of eliteness, and drives demand through the roof. (hm... I wonder... yep! You can buy an invite on ebay for 1-3 bucks.)

All in all, really fucking brilliant.

[lemon boy]

Fucking Stupid.

Here's a hint people, just keep this in mind: NO DATA IS EVER TRULY LOST!

It may be too expensive to recover but it isn't gone. You have to deliberately destroy data for it to be really GONE. 99.99999% of people don't do this.

Yes, I have a gmail account. Mostly got it so I can send and receive new job prospects using a normal derivation of my name at a big email service.

[tuffy109]

it'll be interesting to see if this affects their newly launched ipo.

[AntiSoCalSkier]

Originally posted by lemon boy
Fucking Stupid.

Here's a hint people, just keep this in mind: NO DATA IS EVER TRULY LOST!

It may be too expensive to recover but it isn't gone. You have to deliberately destroy data for it to be really GONE. 99.99999% of people don't do this.

Yes, I have a gmail account. Mostly got it so I can send and receive new job prospects using a normal derivation of my name at a big email service.

A voice of reason!

Pretty much anything sent over the internet can be intercepted and read by pretty much anyone else. The only way to avoid this is to encrypt all of your messages (people can still intercept them, but they won't be able to understand the message). It's a real pain for both you and the recepient, so most people don't bother.

If gmail is causing you problems, you might want to consider the fact that when you send a message to someone who's using a Blackberry, the message gets stored on a server in Canada, so it's subject to Canadian privacy laws not US (I'm not sure what the difference is).

While we're at it, when your mail server (say yahoo.com) connects with someone else's mail server (say tetongravity.com), it's not likely that the two servers are connected by some dedicated line. Instead, your message is going through a whole bunch of other networks and routers. Any of those could archive your message for later reading. Nothing on the internet is truly private. If you want to have a secure conversation with someone, the only way to do it is in person. (The telephone is a close second, since the only people who can listen to phone conversations are controlled by the government.)

I'm not trying to argue that everyone should sign up for gmail (WSD clearly has no need to since it will confuse her customers while offering her no new benefits), but simply that not signing up due to privacy concerns is idiotic, unless you currently have no email account, or encrypt all of your messages.

[lemon boy]

and you could still incript transmissions via gmail.

For those who are REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THIS STUFF:

http://www.gnupg.org/

Use some crypto that is STRONG.

[Sphinx]

People like to make a big fuss about lack of privacy in electronic communications, but the way I see it, there's no less privacy than in 'normal' communications. People can steal your mail, copy your credit card number, tap your phone, etc, etc. Aren't you worried that when you hand a card to the cashier that they won't record the number?? Shouldn't be we paranoid about that as well??

[13]

Originally posted by watersnowdirt
I have to say, I was thinking about this whole Gmail thing on my mt bike ride last night (ya gotta do something to keep your mind occupied while climbing up beastly hills).

First of all, this whole invitation thing.... clearly, the invites will never run out. SheRa gave all hers out, then got more. Basically what Google is doing (and feel free to give a better interpretation of this) is getting YOU to do their marketing, for free, with the sense that there's some eliteness to it. Bullshit - the invites will just keep coming, threads on other bboards will keep popping up, and they just sit back and smile doing nothing while their advertisers are popping woodies.

- snip -

Just my thoughts. I think Google is laughing all the way to the bank.


Originally posted by tuffy109
it'll be interesting to see if this affects their newly launched ipo.

Bingo. The timing is not coincidental at all, IMO.

[tuffy109]

Originally posted by AntiSoCalSkier

I'm not trying to argue that everyone should sign up for gmail (WSD clearly has no need to since it will confuse her customers while offering her no new benefits), but simply that not signing up due to privacy concerns is idiotic, unless you currently have no email account, or encrypt all of your messages.

remember the whole hubub about doubleclick cookie-ing users back in '99? people were up in arms about it. same shit's still going on today, and nobody cares.

[13]

LB & ASCS,

Most common encryption algorithms have probably been cracked by the people at Ft. Meade anyway. I wouldn't trust those encryption programs any more than I would trust plain text e-mail.

[lemon boy]

13-Regardless, using PGP or its ilk means that if nothing else your email is beyond the reach of all but the top flight agencies. NSA isn't gonna bother cracking joe-blow's communications even if asked unless they think he's working for Al Quadea.

[365wp]

Aren't you worried that when you hand a card to the cashier that they won't record the number?? Shouldn't be we paranoid about that as well??

I'm more worried about what happens to the receipt after. There are still a few places out there that don't obscure the first twelve digits of the cc number. The receipt goes into the trash, which goes outside, which is open for dumpster diving at night. It's why I bought a shredder...plus, crosscut paper is great packing material! :)

Having had my cc used fraudulently on the internet at least once, I'm paranoid now.

[Cornholio]

Plus, I would be more than a little surprised if NSA had, in fact, cracked PGP (or it's ilk). It's very, very strong.

[Yossarian]

The Code Book, by Simon Singh
Excellent read.

[Cornholio]

Originally posted by Yossarian
The Code Book, by Simon Singh
Excellent read.

Seconded. (Did I give you that, or did you give it to me?)

Also a great fiction book that's tangled in WWII codes.... what was that one?

[cj001f]

Originally posted by Cornholio
Plus, I would be more than a little surprised if NSA had, in fact, cracked PGP (or it's ilk). It's very, very strong.
Cough, cough, as is there computing power and brain power.

[Cornholio]

Originally posted by cj001f
Cough, cough, as is thEIr computing power and brain power.

The brain power at NSA isn't any stronger than anywhere else in the world, guaranteed. They tried to hire me, if that tells you anything.

As for computing, if they have a quantum computer (which, most agree, seems incredibly unlikely) they'll be able to crack individual RSA-ish messages by brute force, but an actual fast algorithm to factor the numbers involved *probably* doesn't exist.

This is all speculation/bullshit, but that's why the NSA has the power it does. Their capabilites are totally unknown.

Doesn't change the fact that PGP/RSA is still amazingly strong, and will hide your little diary entries from nearly everyone.

[lemon boy]

The Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. Great book

[Cornholio]

YES!! Great read. Thanks LB.

[Yossarian]

yes, that's the one.

I recommended The Code Book to you, and then you ended up breaking more of the codes than I did, believe. I got stuck at number 7 of 10 or so. I think you were able to complete #7. I forget.

Anyway, the basics of RSA/PGP are spelled out in the appendix, and for those of you with any background in combinatorial math, are pretty easy to understand.

Cracking isn't an issue of smarts, as Corn mentioned. It's an issue of time in the universe.

The cypher, like almost all strong cryptos of today, is based on functional transformations that are irreversible. That is, you take a number or set of numbers, and then do something to them which has the property of not being able to be traced backwards. In other words, the result of the transformation provides no way know where the starting point was.

Sounds impossible, but it's really not that hard to come up with functions with this property.

Arithmetic on the clock is one such transformation. If I tell you that I came up with 5pm, and started with Time T, and then added Hours H to get to 5pm, can you tell me what T and H are?

Of course not, there's a uncountably large number of possibilities because clock math (modular math at p=12) is a many to one relationship.

Now imagine that you take that principle and start using very large prime numbers as your starting point, which have their own interesting properties such as being hard to find, and you're getting the picture.

You'd pretty much need quantum computing to get anywhere, but there are lots of ways to skin a cat (particularly when it can exist and not exist at the same time), so who knows.

Anyway, The Code Book is a great read, not too techie, great history in there too, way back to ancient history.

Cryptonomicon is a favorite book as well, clever as shit.

Two thumbs up!

[bad_roo]

This could well explain the glazed look on the Rev's face in that minivan in Argentina last summer.

[Yossarian]

nah, that was from the Argentinian chick giving him road head

[altachic]

Originally posted by Yossarian
nah, that was from the Argentinian chick giving him road head
YES!

[lemon boy]

NERD ALERT! NERD ALERT


Originally posted by Yossarian
yes, that's the one.

I recommended The Code Book to you, and then you ended up breaking more of the codes than I did, believe. I got stuck at number 7 of 10 or so. I think you were able to complete #7. I forget.

Anyway, the basics of RSA/PGP are spelled out in the appendix, and for those of you with any background in combinatorial math, are pretty easy to understand.

Cracking isn't an issue of smarts, as Corn mentioned. It's an issue of time in the universe.

The cypher, like almost all strong cryptos of today, is based on functional transformations that are irreversible. That is, you take a number or set of numbers, and then do something to them which has the property of not being able to be traced backwards. In other words, the result of the transformation provides no way know where the starting point was.

Sounds impossible, but it's really not that hard to come up with functions with this property.

Arithmetic on the clock is one such transformation. If I tell you that I came up with 5pm, and started with Time T, and then added Hours H to get to 5pm, can you tell me what T and H are?

Of course not, there's a uncountably large number of possibilities because clock math (modular math at p=12) is a many to one relationship.

Now imagine that you take that principle and start using very large prime numbers as your starting point, which have their own interesting properties such as being hard to find, and you're getting the picture.

You'd pretty much need quantum computing to get anywhere, but there are lots of ways to skin a cat (particularly when it can exist and not exist at the same time), so who knows.

Anyway, The Code Book is a great read, not too techie, great history in there too, way back to ancient history.

Cryptonomicon is a favorite book as well, clever as shit.

Two thumbs up!

[The Reverend Floater]

What have we become?

[Yossarian]

oh shut your cake hole and start packing for this trip to Argentina

:D

[Ski Monkey]

Originally posted by lemon boy
and you could still incript transmissions via gmail.

For those who are REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THIS STUFF:

http://www.gnupg.org/

Use some crypto that is STRONG.

I use gnupg and it works great. Opensource, active development and it's free.