the first wax on a new pair of skis.

[Neaps]

Not sure if this is a myth, nonesense, or what... but i was told the very first layer of wax ever put on a ski should be a very cold / temp that gets deep into the pores and acts as a first coating base layer for all waxes thereafter. Anyone else heard this? Does it matter? Is there any science in this? Sounds like bollocks to me.

[keksie]

just use the cheapest wax you can find and warm wax like 10-20times. and i've actually heard soft waxes (high temp) works better.. because err.. its softer and gets into pores better

[XXX-er]

I heard soft wax to begin with ,on new skis I thro on a bunch of warm wax ,heat and let cool completely without scraping ... repeat as many times as possible

[skifishbum]

Hot box or repeated base prep (ie warm wax) with hot scrapes.
Or cold or condition dependent wax after every ride till you get the pores saturated and base fast

[backplayer10]

to set the truth about waxing once and for all......

i worked at a ski shop and the guy that showed me has been doing this for decades. he is like the godfather of waxing around here.

the first thing you want to do is put down a warm temp wax and scrape it off while its still hot. this gets all the dirt and abrasions off the ski surface that are left over from the stone grinding at the factory. then you want to put a normal coat of warm wax on (like a 28 to 35 degree) right away and let it sit until it cools. then scrape and apply another coat. after that you should work your way from warm to cold wax - as the temp increases the warm wax will be left and the cold wax will 'melt' away. thus the wax in the pores of the ski always have wax in them. if you use a cold weather wax, then when it gets warm outside the wax gets soft and comes out right away.

any questions just pm me.

[snowful]

to set the truth about waxing once and for all......

I bout fell off my barstool


i worked at a ski shop and the guy that showed me has been doing this for decades. he is like the godfather of waxing around here.

I hope "here" isn't Texas.



any questions just pm me.

nah i'll just post my question in the thread.


after that you should work your way from warm to cold wax - as the temp increases the warm wax will be left and the cold wax will 'melt' away. thus the wax in the pores of the ski always have wax in them. if you use a cold weather wax, then when it gets warm outside the wax gets soft and comes out right away.

WTF are you talking about.

[VTsession]

WTF are you talking about.

Took the words right out of my mouth. That has to be biggest waste of wax and time I've heard yet.

[skibumnh]

as the temp increases the warm wax will be left and the cold wax will 'melt' away. thus the wax in the pores of the ski always have wax in them. if you use a cold weather wax, then when it gets warm outside the wax gets soft and comes out right away.

I thought cold waxes were harder and had a higher melting point.

[Vicious]

Who has the time to wax a million times before skiing your new sticks? Just throw some wax on there and go ski.

[Neezer]

OK....so this is a total JONG question from a total JONG, but I have heard both sides of the argument....I bought my first new pair of skis this summer, and I asked about waxing them before i hit the slopes....Do i need to wax them before i use them if they are brand new? The guy at the shop said i wouldn't need to. I've heard that I do need to...which is it?

[YetiMan]

just use the cheapest wax you can find and warm wax like 10-20times. and i've actually heard soft waxes (high temp) works better.. because err.. its softer and gets into pores better

word for word: X2 :yourock:

and neez, you JONG ;) ...you don't "need" to wax alpine skis ever really. It's just something to do if you like your skis to glide well.

[skibumnh]

Most of the waxing techniques spoken of here are derived from the need to go hundredths of a second faster than someone else down an slope.

If you are really gung ho about waxing, I recommend this instructional dvd (http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Brazilian-Techniques-Mileski-Halencak/dp/B000BMCXYS/ref=pd_cp_d_1?pf_rd_p=413864101&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001B16MVS&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1AKNN9CYSQKVQPZ75T1P).

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Who has the time to wax a million times before skiing your new sticks? Just throw some wax on there and go ski.

I agree.

When I race world cup events though I have the team tech do the hot to cold wax thing for me. it works pretty good for the first 50 yards or so out of the gate when you really need accelerate and close any time gaps.

[Neezer]

word for word: X2 :yourock:

and neez, you JONG ;) ...you don't "need" to wax alpine skis ever really. It's just something to do if you like your skis to glide well.

cool. thanks for the help!

could I get some other opinions just as useful as YetiMan's?

[gramboh]

Assuming this is for all mountain/pow etc. sticks just buy cheap warm wax (0-10c) and do a couple hot scrapes (scrape right away) to saturate then use a mid temperature wax(-4c to -10c). Why waste the effort with hot boxing, 30 waxes etc. on all mountain skis, crazy. You don't need to wax new skis at all, doing so just helps you glide better which is good for lazy people like me.

[schuss]

Waxing skis does also help to prevent damage, as otherwise the bases tend to be more vulnerable to damage. Or at least that's what one of my friends who used to run a shop said. I think he works for wintersteiger now.

[splat]

I agree.

When I race world cup events though I have the team tech do the hot to cold wax thing for me. it works pretty good for the first 50 yards or so out of the gate when you really need accelerate and close any time gaps.

I thought Bode waxed your skis?

[highflyingpilot]

Most of the waxing techniques spoken of here are derived from the need to go hundredths of a second faster than someone else down an slope.



Bear in mind that well waxed skis can be a lifesaver on a traverse.

[snowful]

Bear in mind that well waxed skis can be a lifesaver on a traverse.

Just having fast skis makes the sport a whole lot easier, and more enjoyable.

[focus]

1. Fast skis are more fun.

2. It isn't rocket science.

3. Why let cool and scrape between coats if you're slapping on multiple coats of the same temp wax? That's retarded. (hotscraping to clean is a diff. issue)

4. Cold temp wax doesn't have a lower melting point. If you think this you've obviously never tried to iron ch4 or similar to a pair of skis.

[irul&ublo]

I thought Bode waxed your skis?

Not his skis...his gnads.



Base prep wax is really soft. After grinding hot scrape to clean bases and then wax, cool, scrape 3x. Or...

Buy some bulk swix universal or something similar (2 temps, warm and cold). Wax and scrape every few days. You're not on the fucking world cup.

waxing video (http://www.guzer.com/videos/bikini_waxing.php)

[XXX-er]

1. Fast skis are more fun.

2. It isn't rocket science.

3. Why let cool and scrape if you're slapping on multiple coats of the same temp wax on? That's retarded.

4. Cold temp wax doesn't have a lower melting point. If you think this you've obviously never tried to iron ch4 or similar to a pair of skis.

exactly


having fast skis is not so big if you are just going downhill but if you ski XC you will see and feel the difference in a well waxed ski . Wax a new ski once and go out for a 2 hr skate in cold icy conditions you will see the bases go whitish where the wax is gone .take that same ski and wax it 20 times and you might get 6 hrs out of it before the bases go white


I don't scrape if i am trying to load the bases I leave the wax on until the last time when i scrape most of the warm wax off and do the final wax for the current conditions.I believe the main thing is to let the ski cool off completely before heating it again so when I am trying to get wax into the base's I will leave wax on and reheat it in the morning ,after work ,after dinner ect

I do find colder wax is harder to apply ,it may melt at the same temp but it seems harder to melt so whats going on with that?


apparently the finns like to hot box their skis in the suana

[irul&ublo]

http://www.owensworld.com/funnyimages/files/kournikova_anna4_big.jpg

[backplayer10]

in my defense:

the people that criticize my technique dont really seem to have a great argument and thus dont sound like they know any better than i do. second, i waxed hundreds of skis a week at my last job and probably have more waxing experience then most of you. third, THINK ABOUT THAT!! why is a cold weather wax a cold weather wax? if all waxes melted at the same temp why would there by different waxes? whats the point? the waxes are made to melt at certain temps to provide a smooth surface. think about the logic of putting a warm wax on then scraping and putting a cold wax on. the layers might actually do something if you do it right. not waxing your skis can make them dry out. i have seen this before and thats one of the reasons they invented stone grinding. if they dry out and the pores get rough then your ski doesnt glide that well. you will see a difference here. if you choose to neglect it and think skiing on crap bases is fun then go for it. you obviously dont need wax. and if waxing is such a optional application, why does every shop in the county (even the ones in texas im sure) offer waxing? if you really want to see the difference in waxes and how waxing works then ask a xc skier. if you still dont get the whole waxing thing then thats your deal, dont chastize me for trying to educate someone about it.

and the people that dont get it but still put their $.02 in are the reason i said ill set the record straight and you can pm me questions.

[tsproul]

why is a cold weather wax a cold weather wax?

Because it causes the least friction when temperatures are 'cold.' Something to do with the way the wax interacts with the snow crystals to make a nice microlayer of water which all gives the least friction. That's about as much rocket science as I'm capable of.



if all waxes melted at the same temp why would there by different waxes?

melting point is only one property of any given chemical.


think about the logic

Well said. Now, if only......

[backplayer10]

go talk to your local shop tech and get back to me when you learn something....

and if your still skeptical read the wax section starting on page 8. http://www.tokous.com/Manuals/Alpine%20tech%20manual.pdf

[XXX-er]

after that you should work your way from warm to cold wax - as the temp increases the warm wax will be left and the cold wax will 'melt' away. thus the wax in the pores of the ski always have wax in them. if you use a cold weather wax, then when it gets warm outside the wax gets soft and comes out right away.

.

actualy you werent doing to bad till the above part where I don't agree with your reasoning ,but if we are to believe the blurb in tognar there IS about a 70degree spread in the temps at which waxes melt and a cold weather wax is harder to resist abraision from Ice

http://tognar.com/waxing_tips_ski_snowboard.html

AND you don't need to know alot about what you are doing to wax skis in a ski shop,I'm betting you chose either a cheap bulk universal or a cheap bulk universal

[focus]

What makes you think your "experience" as a part-time shop hack is at all unique in these forums?

I haven't decided if it's hilarious, scary, or just predictable that you obviously have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

I'll keep you posted.

[YetiMan]

go talk to your local shop tech and get back to me when you learn something....

my local shop tech just told me your real name is Gary, and you were charged with a misdemeanor for beating off in the shopko employee bathroom last week.

[YetiMan]

I'm betting you chose either a cheap bulk universal or a cheap bulk universal

XXX-er...

just curious if you'd suggest I go with the bulk universal chips or the bulk universal pellets for tomorrow, it's going to be cold and snowy.

thx,
yetiman

[XXX-er]

I would go for something you could also use to do bikini lines and unsightly excess facial hair

[nickwm21]

i just rode my new skis today... i waxed them once with an all condish wax...

guess what?

they slid down the hill waxy quick!

[land]

i always throw on one coat of wax, scrape it while its soft and brush it all out to clean the bases. then i put on a coat and leave it for however long i feel like (an hour, a day, a week, a summer....) then i scrape it, brush it well and go skiing. thats every time i tune skis, and thats what i've done with new skis too. i've never had a problem, my skis are fast as balls (i think)

[RaccoonFace]

in my defense:

the people that criticize my technique dont really seem to have a great argument and thus dont sound like they know any better than i do. second, i waxed hundreds of skis a week at my last job and probably have more waxing experience then most of you. third, THINK ABOUT THAT!! why is a cold weather wax a cold weather wax? if all waxes melted at the same temp why would there by different waxes? whats the point? the waxes are made to melt at certain temps to provide a smooth surface. think about the logic of putting a warm wax on then scraping and putting a cold wax on. the layers might actually do something if you do it right. not waxing your skis can make them dry out. i have seen this before and thats one of the reasons they invented stone grinding. if they dry out and the pores get rough then your ski doesnt glide that well. you will see a difference here. if you choose to neglect it and think skiing on crap bases is fun then go for it. you obviously dont need wax. and if waxing is such a optional application, why does every shop in the county (even the ones in texas im sure) offer waxing? if you really want to see the difference in waxes and how waxing works then ask a xc skier. if you still dont get the whole waxing thing then thats your deal, dont chastize me for trying to educate someone about it.

and the people that dont get it but still put their $.02 in are the reason i said ill set the record straight and you can pm me questions.

Fuck yea! Don't take shit from these armchair quarterbacks! It is great to hear thoughts from someone who is actually involved in working with skis, and actually in the ski industry. Considering how much you have done this I will definitely be doing this to my skis instead of trying to sift through the speculation and guessing everyone else spews.

Also, could you tell me something about stone grinding? I just don't understand it... What is it for?

okbye

[backplayer10]

Stone grinding rejuvenates a ski base by peeling off a very thin layer of base material and carving micro-structure into the ski. It improves ski performance by flattening the base, removing scratches and burned, dried base material while etching appropriate structure into the base. Spring is the best time to get skis stone ground because there is no rush and the skis have months to drink up wax.

got that off a website. here is some more... http://skiing.about.com/od/skis/ss/preseasontuneup_6.htm

i dont know that much about it but this should explain it. the machines are real expensive so we gave our skis to another shop to grind.

[focus]

If you pay a shop to stone-grind your skis you're an idiot. Just get some 40 grit sandpaper and go to town every other day or so before waxing. It's the same thing as what a shop does. Just make sure to use the heel of your hand to make sure you get the base nice and flat.

[SuperGaper]

If you pay a shop to stone-grind your skis you're an idiot. Just get some 40 grit sandpaper and go to town every other day or so before waxing. It's the same thing as what a shop does. Just make sure to use the heel of your hand to make sure you get the base nice and flat.

I don't think so. Oh wait your joking........................ Right?

[bogusbill]

Go to www.racw-werks.com and buy either the S.V.S.T. yellow ultra wax for feeding and hot scraping your bases and then a bar of white universal or a temp specific bar for the conditions you ski. the huge bars are around 12 bucks each and would probably last several seasons. If you really want to treat your bases I recomend the Race Service 1 SBC1 as a new ski, fresh grind, storage wax, it absorbs into the base very well. Any one who waxes regularly will notice the difference between SBC1 and a standard warm temp wax.

[splat]

If you pay a shop to stone-grind your skis you're an idiot. Just get some 40 grit sandpaper and go to town every other day or so before waxing. It's the same thing as what a shop does. Just make sure to use the heel of your hand to make sure you get the base nice and flat.

Should I get the structured 40 grit sandpaper that sheds moisture off the base?
What about the wrinkles in my hand from masturbating on the internet?
Will they show up on the base?
That would be kinda embarrassing if someone took a shot of my bases off a 290 footer, magnified the huck in photoshop and saw that rosy handprint in the bases of my skis.

[RaccoonFace]

That would be kinda embarrassing if someone took a shot of my bases off a 290 footer, magnified the huck in photoshop and saw that rosy handprint in the bases of my skis.

Well if Willy is hard enough to dent your hand maybe you should just hump the structure into the bases...? That way the marks would be small enough to be invisible from 2 feet let alone a 290 footer. :)

okbye

[YetiMan]

fat skis are way way better in soft snow and not that much worse on hardpack

snow tires are way way better on snow and not that much worse on dry pavement

very cold wax is way way better for cold snow and not that much worse on warm snow

just saturate your bases with CH4 and Mr. Zip and be done with it for a while.

[skifishbum]

Fuck Dentists
I fill my own cavities with cera f mixed into the epoxy.
I can chew faster than any yous fuckers

[focus]

Should I get the structured 40 grit sandpaper that sheds moisture off the base?
What about the wrinkles in my hand from masturbating on the internet?
Will they show up on the base?
That would be kinda embarrassing if someone took a shot of my bases off a 290 footer, magnified the huck in photoshop and saw that rosy handprint in the bases of my skis.

Dude, that's just good structure. That shit makes you fast. The best base tuners have to masturbate like howler monkeys to get it right.

[2nd mate]

This thread is EPIC.

90% of the time I wax/tune my skis I am drunk, I was once charged by a real tech. for what he called "extreme bevel correction"

[geo039]

Read the first 10 posts and thought exactly the same...wax is overrated :biggrin:

Who has the time to wax a million times before skiing your new sticks? Just throw some wax on there and go ski.

[backplayer10]

so is changing the oil in your car......it works just fine and gets you down the hill to where your going and you cant tell the difference for a while. i dont want to be there though when you find out how it could be if you had taken care of your stuff all along....

[focus]

i dont want to be there though when you find out how it could be if you had taken care of your stuff all along....

Uh...why not?

[skibumnh]

Uh...why not?

Dude, you dont know? Dry bases are prone to spontaneous combustion. There recovered some charred remains in a melted jets starter jacket in some trees at Kmart last season. Authorities assumed the skier's bases had come in contact with some bark which ignited the blaze.

PROPER WAXING CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE!

[El Chupacabra]

I don't wax my skis, I just smear some used motor oil on the bases about every run or two. That way, when other skiers are pointing up at their tracks and saying "dude! check out my line!" I can just point to my black tracks and say "dude! check out MY line!"

[iggyskier]

http://www.owensworld.com/funnyimages/files/kournikova_anna4_big.jpg

Wimbleton is not played on clay ;)

Seriously though, on my new skis with super dry bases I have been doing 3 coats of base conditioner and then 2 coats of normal all-temp wax. Thus far they are been really damn fast. It definitely is a bitch, especially to do to 9 different pairs, and during it I know I wanted to just say fuck it, but its done now and all the skis are nice and fast.

It definitely helps to brush, and brush, and brush some more.

[XXX-er]

sure you don't need to wax and if you havent all season you won't care and you won't notice cuz any slide into depravity is a gradual one

BUT do a good wax job and suddenly its just a BIT easier to do everything ,faster on cat tracks,getting out of side country back to lift doesnt need so much poling so you don't fog up,you attain slight uphills instead of sidestepping them its just plain easier to keep up to your buddies cuz lets face it anytime you put 2 guys together on bikes/skis/cars ... you got a race

so some people wax their bases ,anybody wax their top skins ?

I found a spray bottle of STP son of a gun in the basement and it said good for any material so why not ,I spritzed it on tops and bindings . It looks like I had less snow buildup on my ski tops & bindings and also they looked better ,that chalky white looking finish from edges hitting tops goes back to being the original color

[focus]

so some people wax their bases ,anybody wax their top skins ?

I use car wax. Seriously.

[Tunco]

I wax my sidewalls too.

[focus]

I stone grind my bindings. That's one thing a wintersteiger IS good for.

[strode420]

I wax and stone grind the tips of my poles for easier entry into the snow. it's shaved valuable seconds off my wait in the liftlines i've noticed.....

but should i use a +1 or +2 bevel on the pole tip, any suggestions?

[AsheanMT]

Stone grinding rejuvenates a ski base by peeling off a very thin layer of base material and carving micro-structure into the ski. It improves ski performance by flattening the base, removing scratches and burned, dried base material while etching appropriate structure into the base. Spring is the best time to get skis stone ground because there is no rush and the skis have months to drink up wax.

got that off a website. here is some more... http://skiing.about.com/od/skis/ss/preseasontuneup_6.htm

i dont know that much about it but this should explain it. the machines are real expensive so we gave our skis to another shop to grind.

Nice. I'm so glad somebody like you joined the forum. We finally have somebody who knows something about tuning AND using the search function to find,copy, and paste valuable tidbits of information.

Can you recommend a good way for me to do my edges at home?

[skibumnh]

in my defense:

the people that criticize my technique dont really seem to have a great argument and thus dont sound like they know any better than i do. second, i waxed hundreds of skis a week at my last job and probably have more waxing experience then most of you. third, THINK ABOUT THAT!! why is a cold weather wax a cold weather wax? if all waxes melted at the same temp why would there by different waxes? whats the point? the waxes are made to melt at certain temps to provide a smooth surface. think about the logic of putting a warm wax on then scraping and putting a cold wax on.


LQCU36pkH7c

Dude, relax. Just because you can work an iron doesn't mean you understand the physics of skiing.

From http://web.archive.org/web/20020223000142/http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/skiwaxing_olympics.html


"Water is one of the strangest substances on earth," says David Lind, author of The Physics of Skiing. "It has a myriad of properties that make it unique for life and unique for how a ski slides on snow. It's often impossible to predict."

One reason water is so complicated is that within certain temperature ranges, it can exist in three forms: solid, liquid and gas. Each form has a very different effect on a ski.

As a ski glides over snow, friction between the ski and the snow crystals melts a micro thin layer of water, which lubricates a skier's glide. In warm conditions too much water melts, creating a sluggish suction between the ski and snow (the same way a glass of water sticks to a glass table). In colder temperatures less water melts, the lubricating layer is reduced and the ski glides less smoothly.

But cold weather can never completely inhibit glide. Recently, scientists learned a thin layer of water exists even when cold temperatures limit the effect of friction between ski and snow.

It turns out that oxygen atoms at the surface of ice and snow crystals vibrate faster than ones on the inside. Gabor Snomorjai, a chemist at the University of California at Berkeley discovered that vibration creates an outer layer that behaves like a liquid and makes snow or ice slippery even in the coldest temperatures.

Waxing for Glide

To take advantage of snow's slippery surface, skiers use glide wax — usually a paraffin-based substance that's ironed onto the ski.

Glide wax comes in two basic varieties: hard and soft. Harder wax is preferred in colder snow since it offers a smooth, water-resisting surface against firm, cold ice crystals.

Softer wax is for warmer snow since it's highly water-resistant and provides a slightly uneven surface. The rough surface offers tiny nooks and crannies on the ski's bottom surface that help break suction between water and the ski.

Timothy Donnelly, a chemist at the University of California at Davis, explains hard glide wax is made up of paraffin and a microcrystalline substance that features long carbon chains of 28-50 atoms. Longer carbon chains create a harder wax and shorter chains make a softer wax, he says.

Soft glide wax is made up of a mixture of regular paraffin wax and petroleum-based wax, which has shorter carbon chains of 12-20 carbon atoms.

Those are the basics, but wax companies use other, often undisclosed ingredients and combinations to give their waxes an edge. For example, some wax companies feature glide waxes made with fluorocarbons — a compound that makes water slippery the same way a bar of soap becomes slippery when wet. "Fluorocarbons are expensive but realistically in cross-country skiing you can't be competitive without a stash of them in your wax box," says Kemppel.

[keksie]

second, i waxed hundreds of skis a week at my last job and probably have more waxing experience then most of you. third, THINK ABOUT THAT!!
Doesn't still mean you know shit, though.. just saying..








and your fancy theory about wax melting points is complete bs :rolleyes2

[AsheanMT]

^^^^You guys totally fucked up my trolling for lulz. You guys suck.

[keksie]

^^^^You guys totally fucked up my trolling for lulz. You guys suck.
soz, didn't read further than his reply.. oh well! i still welcome mr. "ski-industry insider" backplayer10 into our cozy community. please PM iceman for any further waxing advice.

[jondrums]

I figgur if you get your brand new skis on a monday and can't ski until the weekend, then you should wax them every evening after work. If you get them on the night of a big dump, wax them once real quick and go skiing.

[skifishbum]

so is changing the oil in your car......it works just fine and gets you down the hill to where your going and you cant tell the difference for a while. i dont want to be there though when you find out how it could be if you had taken care of your stuff all along....

My mechanic is FKNA awesome
He doesn't believe in any form of ski tuning though. Go figure???
I also heard he skied in jeans today:fm:


-Dibs sfb

[YetiMan]

I also heard he skied in jeans today:fm:

it was one of the more amazing things I've ever seen.

dumping. powder day. run after run. no pants. un. fucking. believable.

[skifishbum]

it was one of the more amazing things I've ever seen.

dumping. powder day. run after run. no pants. un. fucking. believable.

McBob No Pants
Bwwwwaahhhhh
that shit is core
I was trying to call you guys to get him a pair
Hope to see you in the am
First chair
and not fuckin Apex Ice:wink: