SPOT: Satellite Messenger (Backcountry Gear)

[tgr pro]

<h3>Satellite Messenger (http://www.tetongravity.com/proshop/satellitemessenger_SOT0001.html)</h3><p><em>When you're headed into the backcountry or traveling abroad in unfamiliar territory, pack the SPOT Satellite Messenger for worldwide satellite tracking and emergency alert capabilities. </em></p><p></p><p><img src='http://akamai.backcountrystore.com.edgesuite.net/images/items/medium/SOT/SOT0001/OC.jpg' ></p><br />Gear Pro Shop (http://www.tetongravity.com/proshop/satellitemessenger_SOT0001.html) All SPOT Gear (http://www.tetongravity.com/proshop/brand-spot.html)

[HotTate]

These things look sick!
i really makes you want to leave the house more often too.

[Hugh Conway]

PSA: Several Pacific Northwest SAR units found the cellphone call they received much more useful than the notification from the SPOT service. Caveat Emptor.

[Sinecure]

PSA: Several Pacific Northwest SAR units found the cellphone call they received much more useful than the notification from the SPOT service. Caveat Emptor.

Sure, but the whole point of a Spot, or other EPIRB, is that they don't need a cell signal. They work virtually anywhere. The Spot one is unique in that it can send out an update to your friends telling them where you are, that you're ok, etc. Or it can call the cavalry.

It would be very cool if you had a keyboard on the Spot and could type in the message that gets sent along with your signal. Right now it just sends a pre-made text saying something like "I'm OK, I'm here..." or it sends the emergency signal to SAR. If you could send the signal to SAR along with some info like, "Major Trauma, need Helo evac for 3 ppl" or "Large Avy, 7 buried", etc., that might be helpful.

[f2f]

so, any information on how often the "help" or "911" buttons are pressed accidentally?

[Hugh Conway]

Sure, but the whole point of a Spot, or other EPIRB, is that they don't need a cell signal. They work virtually anywhere. The Spot one is unique in that it can send out an update to your friends telling them where you are, that you're ok, etc. Or it can call the cavalry.

There's a difference between SPOT and the traditional PLBs for calling in help. The traditional PLB/EPIRBS transmit a homing signal to allow SAR to find you quicker - SPOT doesn't.

[Summit]

Both SPOT and 406Mhz PLB's should be able to give GPS coordinates accurate enough that pinpoint RDFing on 121.5 would be redundant. On that note, RDFing 121.5 is a pain in the ass, especially in the mountains. In other words, that homing signal isn't of much use.

What I don't understand... why would SPOT be better than a satphone with txt messaging? I mean... other than being WAY cheaper...

PLB is in *theory* slightly more reliable than SPOT and has wider coverage if traveling outside the US. SPOT is obviously cheaper and more versatile.

I've seen two SPOT activations in my vicinity. One time there was a good hours delay between activation and notification of the local rescue team. The other time I *think* there was less of a delay.

[Vitamin I]

...The Spot one is unique in that it can send out an update to your friends telling them where you are, that you're ok, etc. Or it can call the cavalry...

Hugh Conway, good point that the SPOT is NOT the best choice for rescue, or for non-emergency fun GPS tracking either. Good to emphasize this to buyers who might tend to assume something different.

Sinecure, good point that SPOT is best for updating friends/family (and the emergency/fun stuff is just secondary bonus features).

IMO, the SPOT is NOT for the user---it is really for the user's family/friends. It is for wilderness travelers whose lives are negatively impacted when their overprotective family/friends worry too much about their safety. I do not mean to belittle this product---it will literally save my parents' marriage. My 70-year-old father hikes solo off-trail 3-4 times per week, and my mother would worry whenever he'd be late for dinner. Then one time he got behind schedule in some gnarly overgrown off-trail terrain, spent an unplanned night out, was so late he failed to pick up my mother at the airport next morning. He was completely fine, just VERY late, but now she freaks whenever he is late on a solo hike. After that, he tried satellite phone to keep her calm, but poor performance in ravines/under canopy for data-intensive signals that require live synchonous communication (voice). A few more insignificant late arrivals, and her worrying got very close to the point of ultimatums (no more solo hiking, or divorce!). I expect SPOT will solve everything because the high chance of transmission success---very short low-data message ("I'm OK"), asynchronous, redundant repetition to increase the chance that one eventually gets received. Now she can relax, and when he's late for dinner, instead of worrying for a few hours, she just checks her email and it says he was OK at 5pm, and the map shows he was not far from a road at that time---he's just a little late again.

EDIT: Satellite text messaging might have solved it also, he didn't try that---but would that be transmitted repeatedly until received?

.

[Summit]

Vitamin I, suggest you read my post again. If you are not traveling outside of coverage:

http://www.findmespot.com/Images/June-Coverage-Map.jpg

PLB's offer little advantage over SPOT and cost a great deal more up front (for a GPS PLB). A non-GPS PLB is arguably inferior to the SPOT.

[Hugh Conway]

Vitamin I, suggest you read my post again. If you are not traveling outside of coverage:

Bariloche ARG, a reasonably popular South America destination with people here, looks to be in the no coverage in 20 minutes range(can't quite tell from that map)

Cost wise ACR terrafix = $400 from bc, Spot = $150 + $100year service (an extra $50 year to send contacts your location) to me thats not terribly different in price.

[Summit]

Bariloche ARG, a reasonably popular South America destination with people here, looks to be in the no coverage in 20 minutes range(can't quite tell from that map)
I concede that point for our South America summer skiing crowd, but most here probably don't intend to leave this continent with their PLB. I would point out that they are putting up more satellites so the coverage will be improving.


Cost wise ACR terrafix = $400 from bc, Spot = $150 + $100year service (an extra $50 year to send contacts your location) to me thats not terribly different in price.

Look closely, that ACR Terrafix doesn't have built in GPS. You have to plug it in to your personal GPS (that's compatible). Otherwise it is only accurate to about 1/4 mile circle (and believe me, that is a HUGE area) in theory (and in reality I've seen 5+ mi circles). Then you have to RDF.

Onboard GPS PLBs are at least $500.

[Vitamin I]

Both SPOT and 406Mhz PLB's should be able to give GPS coordinates accurate enough that pinpoint RDFing on 121.5 would be redundant. On that note, RDFing 121.5 is a pain in the ass, especially in the mountains. In other words, that homing signal isn't of much use.
...
I've seen two SPOT activations in my vicinity. One time there was a good hours delay between activation and notification of the local rescue team. The other time I *think* there was less of a delay.

Thanks for all the great info in this thread. SPOT website implies the distress coordinates must be forwarded from dept to dept to dept before finally getting to searchers on-location:

"Once activated, SPOT will acquire its exact coordinates from the GPS network, and send that location along with a distress message to a GEOS International Emergency Response Center every five minutes until cancelled. The Emergency Response Center notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your location and personal information – which may include local police, highway patrol, the Coast Guard, our country’s embassy or consulate, or other emergency response or search and rescue teams – as well as notifying your emergency contact person(s) about the receipt of a distress signal."

For rescue, I guess I might prefer a product with less of the delay mentioned by Summit. Ideally, I'd prefer a homing beacon signal that the actual on-location searchers can receive directly, especially in high mobility situations like the ocean (not an issue for Coloraggots and Utards).

Still, I think the SPOT rocks (as explained in my previous post).

.

[Summit]

Thanks for all the great info in this thread. SPOT website implies the distress coordinates must be forwarded from dept to dept to dept before finally getting to searchers on-location:

"Once activated, SPOT will acquire its exact coordinates from the GPS network, and send that location along with a distress message to a GEOS International Emergency Response Center every five minutes until cancelled. The Emergency Response Center notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your location and personal information – which may include local police, highway patrol, the Coast Guard, our country’s embassy or consulate, or other emergency response or search and rescue teams – as well as notifying your emergency contact person(s) about the receipt of a distress signal."

The SPOT sequence is very similar to a PLB.

SPOT -> Globalstar Data Sat -> Ground Station -> GEOS IERC -> local dispatch -> rescue agency

PLB -> COSPAS/SARSAT -> LUT (ground station) -> regional Mission Coordination Center -> regional Rescue Coordination Center -> local dispatch -> rescue agency

PLB's are expected to contact the network in less than two hours, usually faster.


For rescue, I guess I might prefer a product with less of the delay mentioned by Summit. Ideally, I'd prefer a homing beacon signal that the actual on-location searchers can receive directly, especially in high mobility situations like the ocean (not an issue for Coloraggots and Utards).

That's a very good point. I have no clue if SPOT works well in maritime use... at any rate, it doesn't seem to have much more than coastal coverage in most areas.

Ensure when you buy your PLB that it is rated for maritime use.

[laseranimal]

It would be very cool if you had a keyboard on the Spot and could type in the message that gets sent along with your signal. Right now it just sends a pre-made text saying something like "I'm OK, I'm here..." or it sends the emergency signal to SAR. If you could send the signal to SAR along with some info like, "Major Trauma, need Helo evac for 3 ppl" or "Large Avy, 7 buried", etc., that might be helpful.

Actually the spot has 3 alert functions, 2 of which can be customized

1. Check in/I'm OK: Using your user page you can customize this alert to say whatever you want.

2. Help: Again you can change this to text whatever you want.

3. 911: This one just notifies the SPOT service and can't be customized


I've customized my assistance alert to be a "don't worry honey I'm just running a little late" note and have told my wife that if I send the code "I'm late" followed by "I'm checking in" and another "I'm late" it means that I'm in trouble ie a car breakdown or some other non life threatening issue where I'd need help, but not a 4 alarm alert.

Granted you can't customize on scene, but it is entirely possible to change the Check in and Help function to whatever message you would like to send

The other bonus of the SPOT is that should you want too you can enable Tracking, which you can't do with a PLB

[boltonoutlaw]

FWIW: I took a SPOT Messenger to India last winter to test its operation outside the coverage area, and it operated successfully from Srinagar and New Delhi on a few occasions, but the failure rate was high (as expected). The failure rate in south India was 100%. I agree with Vitamin 1 - the SPOT is best as a tool of assurance for the user's family and friends. Hoping that satellite coverage will increase.

[Roo]

FWIW: I took a SPOT Messenger to India last winter to test its operation outside the coverage area, and it operated successfully from Srinagar and New Delhi on a few occasions, but the failure rate was high (as expected). The failure rate in south India was 100%. I agree with Vitamin 1 - the SPOT is best as a tool of assurance for the user's family and friends. Hoping that satellite coverage will increase.

http://carpefactum.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/30/stud_finder.jpg

For now I would play safe and stick with the Wall Wizard.

[Blurred]

All of this nerd talk gives me a boner.

[ash05]

so, any information on how often the "help" or "911" buttons are pressed accidentally?

Tour | Tourism (http://www.ekoventure.com/)

[U.P.Ripper]

so, any information on how often the "help" or "911" buttons are pressed accidentally?

Tour | Tourism (http://www.ekoventure.com/)

From the SPOT website:
" SPOT has a separate power button to ensure long battery life and to help avoid sending messages accidentally. "

I think the idea is that you only turn it on when needed, instead of keeping it on like an avi beacon. This isn't applicable, I guess, if you're using the tracking function. I think I would figure out a way to make a holster (does it come with one?) for it so that maybe the buttons are covered and protected against accidental activation.

[U.P.Ripper]

Cost wise ACR terrafix = $400 from bc, Spot = $150 + $100year service (an extra $50 year to send contacts your location) to me thats not terribly different in price.

I've read that a monthly subscription is available for $10/month instead of the $100/year. (Useful if you spend a lot of time skiing in the backcountry in the winter but don't venture too far out in the summer, or visa versa). the SPOT website, however, doesn't mention this option. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[jstorrs]

i really do not like this thing. it seems to be nothing more than a tool for people who don't know better to enter the backcountry with the thought that if something goes wrong they just hit this little buton and a helicopter will instantly appear.
what happened to darwinism?

[farmer]

^^^ my thoughts exactly. could lead to people pushing themselves past what is safe (sane) for them to be doing, because "oh, if something goes wrong, I can just push this button and everything will be ok"

I remember reading about a story from near whistler where a group of 4 were out, and one fell and had fairly serious injuries, broken legs and other bones if I remember correctly, and his 3 buddies left him with the spot and went down to warm up. their theroy was someone would come get him, no point for them to be out there suffering as well.

[Sinecure]

OK. SPOT sent me a review unit to try out. I'll be playing around on the mountain tomorrow. You can track me here:

http://tinyurl.com/4yytl7

I'll try to post a review on TGR in a few weeks after I've played with it. Actually, I'll probably be able to make a good assessment by early next week of the basic functions. I wonder if they're going to take it back from me in January when I meet with them or if I'll get to keep it for a year. I think I could have fun with the mapping stuff. I still want a keyboard on it and the ability to customize the message I'm sending out. So far I can say that the gps location is pretty darned accurate. I just had to put it in the window to get it to work.

[PowTron]

^^^^ That is really cool...and when looking at the map on their site, it can show you all of the "stops". I may pull the trigger after a larger more comprehensive test by you, so thanks for guinea pigging it :)


On the downside, if a spouse, etc figures out how to place this in your car, etc when you don't know it...:rolleyes:

[cdlv]

wife & I both do lots of back country ( me skiing and hiking , her hiking & peak bagging). we often go out on solo trips to remote areas with very little human traffic. got one of theses for her for xmas and it's pretty damn cool with the tacking and ok message features for ease of mind.

[DarkHorseHyenna]

This tool is essential for any serious back country explore/traveller. Always have the ability to call for help, be tracked online so someone knows where you are at all times. I use mine for paragliding too!

[UTpowder]

I wonder how many people will stop using common sense (if they ever had any) because they feel they are now safe. Too many people that rely on technolgy instead of ability. Not putting this down, could be great if used in the the right way. Just too many wannabes out there that this will allow them to think they can go farther then they should.

[Lincoln]

<h3>Satellite Messenger (http://www.tetongravity.com/proshop/satellitemessenger_SOT0001.html)</h3><p><em>When you're headed into the backcountry or traveling abroad in unfamiliar territory, pack the SPOT Satellite Messenger for worldwide satellite tracking and emergency alert capabilities. </em></p><p></p><p><img src='http://akamai.backcountrystore.com.edgesuite.net/images/items/medium/SOT/SOT0001/OC.jpg' ></p><br />Gear Pro Shop (http://www.tetongravity.com/proshop/satellitemessenger_SOT0001.html) All SPOT Gear (http://www.tetongravity.com/proshop/brand-spot.html)

have a brand new one for sale with a one year warranty. PM me.

[Swine]

i really do not like this thing. it seems to be nothing more than a tool for people who don't know better to enter the backcountry with the thought that if something goes wrong they just hit this little buton and a helicopter will instantly appear.
what happened to darwinism?


I agree to a point. However, if I break an ankle in the Maze in the Canyonlands, I'm at least 12 hours (usually much more) from any sort of help. Imagine if I get a compound fracture; sure my party can hike out and send help, but will that be fast enough? PLB's and The Spot have their place; people will abuse them, and people will be idiots. I still appreciate that they are an option.