Dozers, Backhoes, Graders, logging trucks, snowcats etc

[YetiMan]

My fire career is ending.

I want badly to learn to operate this stuff for my living. I'm having dreams about heading down a dirt road in a peterbilt with a huge load of giant logs. Dreams of cutting fireline in a D7 cat...dreams of grooming at night while it dumps.
I think this is my next calling.

Can anyone here provide some advice as to how to go about that? It seems like there are no, like zero, entry level jobs with these things. Like you have to know somebody or be bringing a few years of experience to the table to have access to these jobs.

I'm hoping somebody on here has some kind of beta for me.

thanks

[Imz]

Message Dhelihiker; he does demolition, and knows all about that shits...

[skibuminwyo]

I can maybe get ya set up, as long as you don't mind moving to Montana. Most the loggers these days are fighting fire anyway, more money in it during fire season. However, you have year round work, real logging doesn't start until snow flies and the ground freezes up anyway.

[iceman]

P McPoser was looking for people to run heavy equipment in a mine in CO and said experience wasn't necessary.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116141&highlight=mine

[MuleSkinner]

What about skidders?

If you are interested in moving to Maine, let me know and I can pass on a few contacts. From what I seen, it's more who you know than what.

[Blurred]

I have worked with and know just about every single excavation company owner in Grand, Summit and Eagle counties in Colorado. Can get you a job anywhere here if you'd like to move to the darkside. ;)

[YetiMan]

thanks, the gears are turning over here. trust me, this is all very intriguing.

[Happy Fun Ball]

I've operated one of these bad boys before in a job while going to school. I must say there's something about operating something that has the ability to take down a house with one pass.

http://www.vannattabros.com/2006add/d11n2.jpg

Have you looked into the mining industry yet? I know around here (UP) there are several entry level jobs at CCI for equipment operators.

[Dhelihiker]

Momma don't let your baby grow up to be an operator

Im a journeyman operator that crawled out of the machines and luckily into a cush office job. I personally get bored silly with running equipment and so will you, but anyhow.

If you really want to be an operator i.e. Run deafening load diesel engines and shook to hell all day.

Here is a few good points.

Right to work states: Colo, Idaho, Montana etc- you will make peanuts

Good states: As a skier- Washington, you will get laid off every winter and collect $600 a week in unemployment. I got many 100+ day years in thanks to that.

California is also rad but no lay offs and shitty unemployment benefits- Union Scale $35 an hour

You want to join a union in a state with a high pay scale and a strong union presence. Im not a huge fan of the Union, But I will retire someday and I have great benefits.

there are three distinct methods to becoming an operator:

1. A union apprentice program

2. Get a job as a laborer and work your way onto a machine

3. Lie, get a job, get fired and repeat until you get good enough not to get fired (very common method)

I did all 3

BTW- stay away from logging- no $$$. You want pipelines, highway work, grading, excavation, demolition

[skifishbum]

My fire career is ending.

dreams of grooming at night while it dumps.
Like you have to know somebody .

I'm hoping somebody on here has some kind of beta for me.

thanks
"If you only knew"there might be some grooming gigs open this winter.
Shoot me a pm w/ your digits and I'll try and see what's up. One of the best departments to work for on the mountain though.

[H-man]

I agree straight across the board with Dhelihiker. I am a project manager with a heavy highway/utilitiy company in Maine. I have a civil engineering degree, but also worked in the field up through the ranks since I was 15 years old.

The olnly thing that I would add, is check with local (state level) lobbying or trade associations such as AGC (Associated General Contractors). Here in Maine, we have an incredibly small union presence, so a combination of like minded agencies here have developed a training program/school to train operators. Member contractors donate equipment and pits or quarries for people to get experience actually operating equipment. There are also simulators for training available.

The downfall with this approach is the real world application of the operating skills is often missed. I can pull the levers and make any piece of equipment run, but keeping a pipeline on grade or grading a 1% cross slope are an entirely different matter.

I think the best way to go is hire on as a laborer with a non union shop if possible and pay attention and be a hard worker. Before you know it, someone will put you on a roller. Then someone will put you on a front end loader and it just kind of takes off from there.

One last thing, at least in this part of the country, fewer people are even interested in this work, making it hard to find people. That being said, interest, followed very closely by good work ethic, willingness to learn and a positive attitude should get you pretty far.

[Blatant]

didn't mcposer just have a post where he was looking for peeps to run machinery......if nothing else a good place to start.

I ran groomers for a few years and i would think that would be easy to slide into....if you start in snowmaking or main't or something. Cats of various flavor are necessary for both of those endeavors. Even if not initially driving, sooner or later you ultimately will? Not sure why but it always seems to work that way.

[BFD]

I work out of the Operating Engineers. I am a surveyor, grade checker. I read Mcposers post and that is a good way to get started. Get some experience gain some confidence than make some union connections. A CDL with a tanker endorsment is pretty handy for opening doors. Look towards AK. if a gas line is built it will be union and a good oppurtunity to get in.. Also up here construction season ends when ski season starts. Haven't worked a winter in over 20 years. Might want to learn a little about GPS it is making construction much easier. So easy I spent the day driving a 735 rock truck.

[YetiMan]

GPS is sort of integral to fire aviation. and being a union worker driving trucks in alaska with the winter off ...that's sort of the "point B" of my entire life's path I think.

[gunniride]

The fed isn't a bad place to be running equipment, less $ but stable, safer job environment. Don't any of the districts you worked with fire have eng. departments? Many of the operators I work with for the FS are beyond retirement age- so getting new blood in is beginning to look necessary.

Start as WG-5, then 8-10 perm...

[YetiMan]

If I see an opening on USAjobs I'll apply for it. I have a feeling they'll want somebody with experience.

[rossibandit]

Dozer - rough on the body, though you would probably be on a truck in an open pit mine environment to start with.

Backhoe - takes skill/experience to be a good operator, mainly owner/operator's from my experience.

Logging Truck - again, mainly owner/operator and with fuel going up ????

Snow Cat - probably easier to get a job if you have a hill contact/connection but the pay isn't great, but you do get to ski every morning. No night life.

[YetiMan]

I have something interesting going on right now....

I just spent a bunch of time last night putting together a resume for Rygaard Logging out of Port Angeles WA where I just spent the last few weeks hanging with my best old friend, meeting an awesome woman, and trying to figure out if I want to live there or not...I'm kind of undecided because I like the area a lot but the skiing is sub par and there is no hockey.

I heard back today from that company, they're hiring people, they're going to be featured on the next season of Axe Men...they wanted a resume with pictures, so I sent them that. They wanted to talk to me in person tomorrow, but I'm here in Utah. I basically told them I could get up there to talk but it's a 15 hour drive and about $500 to get there and back and I need to have an idea what they want from me and what they'd pay. I'm a bit scrambled over this...what do you guys think? I kind of decided that I would like to live in PA, and that I really like this woman up there, and that I would like to get there, get settled and work my ass off to get into driving logging trucks or running heavy equipment and ski on the weekend. I hear the ski team there needs a coach, that town needs a rink and somebody to be the guy that creates a hockey town from scratch. I mean...shit. My mind is sort of going a hundred miles an hour here. any thoughts you guys?

FWIW, I also applied to the Operating Engineers Local apprenticeship program here. I think that's also a good fit, and my understanding of it is that it pays well. I wouldn't need to move, and I'd come out of the apprenticeship as a journey level certified equipment operator. I don't know man, when I was up in the olympic peninsula I'd see all these log trucks and think "I want to do that job, I was made for that job...". I found a place for sale up there that was built for me, a huge metal building in the woods 15 minutes from town with every kind of electricity, a nice welding setup and a plasma cutter :drool: and a nice living quarters all set up to go. It's a loggers mancave, I met the guy that built it for himself...

so what's it worth to ski everyday on good skiing? I think that with the OE I could maybe take some time off over the winter once I was established and I'd be in Salt Lake with lots of good hockey around and my house.

Ack. I don't know what to do dudes...

[skifishbum]

Go for it brother
You always got a place to crash at here.
The pm I sent ya go through hard for me to tell as fucked up as the servers been.

[Kevo]

Two nights ago we were talking about coaching. And building a rink. And now this? This is too good!

The fire life will always be waiting for you to come back if you want it and you know it. You don't want to be waiting on a heli contract next summer running a squad of regs wondering what might have been. Things are lined up in a way that you could never have even hoped for so I say give it a shot. SLC, BCC, LCC- they aren't going anywhere either.

Get up there, get the girl, coach skiing, and start a hockey program! And also run some heavy equipment.


EDIT- Also J, I know you hate the idea of giving up good skiing to go to PA, but with the lingering injury in your leg how hard do you think you would be able to ski day in and day out this winter? (I fucking hate having to say this, but I think it warrants consideration) Maybe things are lined up to give this a shot. Yeah, I think you should give it a shot.

Again, the life you have is going to be there if you want to come back to it. The girl, the opportunity in PA for work and to coach skiing and start a hockey program and have your man cave- that might not be there next year.

[timvwcom]

Missed this yesterday...

A lucky man has more than one good choice.

Will need naked pics of the girl to help more than that, sorry.

[YetiMan]

so I did the aptitude testing for the OE program today. I think it went OK. I was afloat in a writhing sea of white trash.

[P_McPoser]

bad ass brutha, a smart guy like you should be able to get after it.

[bagtagley]

Damn, I was kinda looking forward to seeing you on Axe Men.

"Oh that guy, nah he's not nearly as mean as he looks"

[Buzzworthy]

so I did the aptitude testing for the OE program today. I think it went OK. I was afloat in a writhing sea of white trash.


That is encouraging news thus far.

[iceman]

The result's gonna come back: "Too Smart"

[Tippster]

Good luck, J. See you in 2 weeks!

[YetiMan]

I know of two questions I for sure missed:

what is a windlass? it was multiple choice I and guessed some kind of shelter. heh..

and which one doesn't fit:
A. Hearts
B. Diamonds
C. Aces
D. Spades

heh.. I looked at that and looked at it like a dog trying to figure out how to open a bag of dog food. I just didn't get it. Duh. duh. duh. I realized it like 5 minutes after I'd turned the test in. fuck. "aces"? fuck.

heh.

oh well. There were some other ones that kind of threw me too, just weird shit, like "pick which cow is more visible from an airplane...it was a picture of a spotted one and a white one"...dude. I saw that and thought "jesus christ, what am I doing here, are you shitting me...I don't even know which one to pick and it sounds like something you'd ask a retarded kid in special class"..

There were like 3 "rock and roll" guys there with the long hair and the leather jackets...a bunch of nascar rednecks, a few hispanic dudes with gang tatoos all over, some really crusty looking old women, and I guess the rest was mostly just "truckers" of various configurations.

I didn't know whether to feel good about myself for being the best choice in the room, or feel bad about myself for being in the room in the first place. :fm:

[jonesy]

There is some very good advice given. I have been in the field for 30 years. Teamsters for 17 years. If you want to make a good living at it then Union or a respectable outfit is the way to go. Otherwise be prepared to get fucked over in ways you never thought possible. Heavy equipment and trucking in general takes a toll on your body and is dangerous. I don't think logging would be a good place to start,even more dangerous. You need to work into that kind of driving/operating job. There's an old saying......You can take a logger out of the woods but you can't make a highway driver a logger. Good luck. Old truckers never die they just get new Petrbilts........

[YetiMan]

So...now that there's a work subforum I wonder if an admin would move this there.


Kind of got derailed by 2 years of school but I still want to do this. I have apps into lots of mining jobs. Had a weird, awkward job interview with Barrick in Elko that seemed to just focus on trying to explain wildland firefighting to some people who clearly didn't get it and couldn't get past the "tell us what equipment you operated" question. It seems like the process of getting an OE apprenticeship pretty much requires that you don't need a job to support yourself.

I put in an application to drive snowcats at powder mountain and did a bunch of other searching but as far as I can tell that's the only opening I could see.

I see people running this shit all the time...it's pretty hard to believe they all went through this bullshit just to get a simple job and run machinery. Any of these offers still stand? Colorado...Montana...whatever?

[Tye 1on]

So...now that there's a work subforum I wonder if an admin would move this there.



Done, shoot a PM if anything else is needed.

[BFD]

Do you have a CDL? I mentioned earlier that is where I would start.

[Moose Pit]

Ahhhh explaining fire to miners... Time to change from fire guy to a public safety specialist with hands on experience managing personal, aviation resources and heavy machinery in fast pace high, stress situations.

Good luck.

[YetiMan]

Do you have a CDL? I mentioned earlier that is where I would start.

No, I had one and didn't renew it in 2004. I had an exchange with somebody via PM who kind of outlined the options for getting a driving job and it sounded fairly grim....sign up with some low-end trucking company. Go through their process for 2 years where you're just driving nonstop and stuck in Memphis and Gary Indiana and Texas and wherever. Spend a week making no money in Shreveport because there's nowhere to send you. That kind of shit.

I have to make a living, so spending a bunch of time and money on a school at this stage is out.

I think with this forum and at this time of year I'm mainly wondering about snowcats...
Deer Valley was willing to hire me to run snowcats in 2004 with no experience...I wonder if things have changed that much since then?


Ahhhh explaining fire to miners... Time to change from fire guy to a public safety specialist with hands on experience managing personal, aviation resources and heavy machinery in fast pace high, stress situations.


My resume is full of that sort of language.

[Arty50]

I see people running this shit all the time...it's pretty hard to believe they all went through this bullshit just to get a simple job and run machinery. Any of these offers still stand? Colorado...Montana...whatever?

It's not always "simple." Shortly after two-blocking a crane, cracking a sheave, and watching half of said sheave rocket past a friend missing him by only a foot I found that out the hard way. One of my dad's operators, who was working nearby told me the following after it happened. Just because you know how to run a crane, doesn't mean you know how to operate a crane. He then gave me some lessons the next few days.

I've heard of and seen some silly shit done by experienced operators of cranes and excavators. It's even more impressive when you get an understanding of how hard that stuff really is and how big the conseqences can be if things go wrong. There's a reason the guys who are doing that stuff get paid a ton of money though. There just aren't that many operators out there who have that kind of seat of the pants feel for doing something gnarly in a 165,000 lb excavator.

[Dhelihiker]

Running equipment gets old fast, knocking down buildings is amusing but grading or moving dirt sucks. Especially in these times, those old "experienced" guys that Arty is talking about are typically cut throat backstabbing cunts. Youre trying to take their job or so they think, lay offs come around and everything you do will be wrong. Im in management and I see and hear about it every day. Go to school, trust me.

[BFD]

Running equipment gets old fast, knocking down buildings is amusing but grading or moving dirt sucks. Especially in these times, those old "experienced" guys that Arty is talking about are typically cut throat backstabbing cunts. Youre trying to take their job or so they think, lay offs come around and everything you do will be wrong. Im in management and I see and hear about it every day. Go to school, trust me.
In my 15 years of working heavy construction I didn't see this. I worked for superintendents I liked. A good super puts together a crew that works well together. I spent around a dozen years with the same crew. No one ever got hurt on our jobs. Although I haven't worked construction out of the hall for 5 years my old bosses still call every spring to see what I am doing. Yes it can get pretty old running fill cat for 20 years. If your good at it and with a good company they will put you in good equipment as they know you will make them money with it. I take pride in the jobs I have done and enjoy driving down a road and telling my kids I built it.
to the OP. I wasn't thinking of highway trucking. I was thinking of other options, such as snow removal, landscaping,small construction outfits. One of the key people on a construction crew is the laborer. Someone with a CDL that can drive the water truck or feul truck when needed. Most important thing is to get out there somehow and build experience and connections.

[Crampedon]

If this pipeline gets built they will burn some diesel-

http://www.energynow.com/video/2011/09/16/reporters-notebook-americas-pipeline-system

[brice618]

When I was working as a finish carpenter I talked to a 3 man septic operation that was driving around the boonies doing septic installs and making decent coin. Guy and his dad owned a truck with a gantry on it, and another truck that hauled his backhoe. One laborer to direct the digging and do whatever finish digging and it took them maybe 3 hours to dig and install a full septic system. I wouldn't want to do much maintenance, and didn't ask if they dealt with that side of the business or not, but I wonder if you could get a start doing something like that on a small crew busting ass and getting work done then move up or buy your own rig... Just a thought. Good luck man.

[Arty50]

Running equipment gets old fast, knocking down buildings is amusing but grading or moving dirt sucks. Especially in these times, those old "experienced" guys that Arty is talking about are typically cut throat backstabbing cunts. Youre trying to take their job or so they think, lay offs come around and everything you do will be wrong. Im in management and I see and hear about it every day. Go to school, trust me.


In my 15 years of working heavy construction I didn't see this. I worked for superintendents I liked. A good super puts together a crew that works well together. I spent around a dozen years with the same crew. No one ever got hurt on our jobs. Although I haven't worked construction out of the hall for 5 years my old bosses still call every spring to see what I am doing. Yes it can get pretty old running fill cat for 20 years. If your good at it and with a good company they will put you in good equipment as they know you will make them money with it. I take pride in the jobs I have done and enjoy driving down a road and telling my kids I built it.
to the OP. I wasn't thinking of highway trucking. I was thinking of other options, such as snow removal, landscaping,small construction outfits. One of the key people on a construction crew is the laborer. Someone with a CDL that can drive the water truck or feul truck when needed. Most important thing is to get out there somehow and build experience and connections.

It all depends on who you get on with. Some companies are run by some extremely unsavory people. Others run a very tight ship and take really good care of their people. I've seen it all. The good are really good and the bad are extremely bad.

[Dhelihiker]

In my 15 years of working heavy construction I didn't see this. I worked for superintendents I liked. A good super puts together a crew that works well together. I spent around a dozen years with the same crew. No one ever got hurt on our jobs. Although I haven't worked construction out of the hall for 5 years my old bosses still call every spring to see what I am doing. Yes it can get pretty old running fill cat for 20 years. If your good at it and with a good company they will put you in good equipment as they know you will make them money with it. I take pride in the jobs I have done and enjoy driving down a road and telling my kids I built it.
to the OP. I wasn't thinking of highway trucking. I was thinking of other options, such as snow removal, landscaping,small construction outfits. One of the key people on a construction crew is the laborer. Someone with a CDL that can drive the water truck or feul truck when needed. Most important thing is to get out there somehow and build experience and connections.

Well Sir, you have had a very charmed life. You were on the same crew for 12 years? Ive worked for easily 30-40 different companies in 5 different states. I ran mainline excavator for Mid-Mountain, 25 deep down the middle of Sammamish blvd, utility crossings every 5 feet, My super figured I was the dude. The next company I worked for told me I should probably stay off the excavator, I wasnt that good. But they thought I was the best grade setter they've ever seen (I am). Im not trying to bag on your friends, my point is running heavy equipment is a very subjective trade. Some guys are amazing, they go without saying. Most people are at the same skill level and depending on whether the boss hunts and you hunt or fishes and you have a boat or you wear carharts or wranglers or if you just kiss better ass is what makes the grade. Yes there are great people in the industry and awesome crews, but "fitting in" is almost always the key, not being skilled. Thats the shit that drove me crazy. Ive been in OE 3 for 18 years and have suffered enough to make this claim without hesitation. Thank god I was smart enough to go to school, get a degree and stay in this industry in a capacity that is sustainable.

BFD are you still on a dirt crew? Your post seems past tense, wasnt that great after all, eh?

[BFD]

I began as a construction surveyor, working as a subcontractor to the general contractor. I realized I could make more money working as a grade checker directly for the general so I began doing that. Most supers no very little about the surveying end. The super I hooked up with realized it is beneficial to have a grade checker that can also survey. I never did fit into go to the bar after work and talk about work crowd. I worked hard, was not above laboring if that what was needed that day, communicated and worked well with the operators. Bottom line was I made the company money.
I moved to a small coastal community 8 years ago. The first year I had to travel to another area for union work. I realized I did not like being away from my family. I purchased a commercial fishing permit and became a fisherman. The first few years I worked dirt after the fishing season ended. The last 5 years fishing has begun to payoff. Now I fish and work locally as a surveyor. I did actually reinstate with the union and pay my dues up this fall. However I didn't take work. Thinking when my youngest son is gone I will get back in to build my retirement.

[YetiMan]

bump for a stack of "regret to inform you" letters in the mail yesterday.

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10308536.jpg

ugh. I'm about 98% decided on just giving up a few years to learn to drive trucks and get some experience. I mean, it's been a good run with skiing and surfing and stuff...can't have fun forever.

[mtngirl79]

You should talk to Hermann Brothers, they haul chips, I think they are a little east of Sequim, and I heard they treat their drivers well.

I doubt they will hire you with no experience, but find out what they want... normally it is a year or two of hell, and you can get hired just about anywhere. You could also get your foot in the door with heavy equipment by hauling it, or delivering for a building supply company, and you will learn to drive the boom truck, the mini boom, etc... it is boom right? The deal that lifts the roofing up to the roofs?

I really hate to encourage trucking because I hate it so much, but it is one of the quickest ways to get a job that pays decent. PM if you need info.

[HellgateBasement]

Lie.

http://www.sanmiguelcounty.org/departments/humanresources/index.html


YEAR-ROUND
Road and Bridge Department
Equipment Operator - FTYR
Starting Pay: $2,957/mo;
Benefits Package
Closing Date: 10/16/2011

Performs a variety of duties associated with the operation/repair of road construction and equipment as well as the repair, maintenance and construction of County roads, bridges and right-of-ways. Previous experience required in the operation of motor graders, dozers, backhoes and trucks. Class A Commercial Driver’s License (CDL) preferred with; flagging certification helpful. Must be able to perform strenuous manual labor. Pre-employment and random drug tests mandatory.

[HellgateBasement]

http://www.co.gilpin.co.us/Employment/Postings.htm/EqupOperatorISolid%20Waste.pdf

[YetiMan]

nice, those are both awesome...thanks.

[HellgateBasement]

One more. Wish I was this good at finding jobs for myself.

http://www.telluride-co.gov/index.aspx?page=216

[splat]

Yetiman, I might possibly have an opening for someone to press skis in a month or two, if you're interested. It's a steep learning curve in which even the best fuck shit up, so you have to have presence of mind to an exceptional degree. Lemme know, bro.

[YetiMan]

ok thanks, I'll be in touch if nothing works out here.

I just had a 2nd interview for a real job and I'm kind of scraping by getting a shift here and there at 2 different places and working toward generating some income teching skis. Trying to just keep hustling and rustling here and hoping not to have to move.

edit: never mind that 2nd interview. :(

[YetiMan]

Otherwise be prepared to get fucked over in ways you never thought possible.

This always crosses my mind whenever yet another astonishing situation is brewing. It's true, I never could have imagined some of the shit that goes on.